280 Million Inf. for a Purple IO? That's Insane!
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2009-07-13 10:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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So the people willing and able to pay get the nice stuff. If you can't afford them, or think prices are simply too high, well, that's your own fault, and you don't get to play with the great options that other, more deserving, players can get.
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And here I'd given up on your ever making a rational reply!
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Funny that a post that was bitter, cynical, and entirely self-righteous, you call a rational reply. Especially since straight in the post, I said some players were more "deserving" than others. If it were serious, it WOULD have been one of those entitlement whines you imagine in all my other posts...
OK. It boils down to what IOs are supposed to be. I see them as a great adition to a game that is already fairly customizable (and will be getting more so soon.) If certain options are ultra-rare, then that defeats the purpose of allowing customization. They are a part of the game, and shouldn't be restricted to a small group of players.
As I understand it, you believe them to be rewards. Special. Something that only a few players should have access to. ("Few" being a relative term in a game with 10k subs.) I get that, I do.
A large part of my problem with them is that the devs made a mistake in equating rarity with power. I remember an old interview with the developers of Magic, where they said that they made rare cards more INTERESTING, with strange effects, but they tried hard to not make them extremely powerful. That leads to a degenerate environment where the person who spends the most money, has an inherent advantage over anyone else. They made sure that every rarity level had some really good stuff, a lot of decent stuff, and a few things that were subpar.
Guild Wars comes up a lot when I really get going on this. They made a game where the best weapons were available to everyone. The difference between a crafter-made weapon and one that cost millions of gold wasn't in power, it was in looks. Rare skins, interesting looks, but in performance, they were identical. It's probably no surprise that I played GW for a long time, because there was no chasing to get the best stuff: it all worked, and vanity items looked cooler, were desired and wanted, but offered no in-game benefit.
WoW is the other end of the spectrum, where the BoP items mean that only the absolute most dedicated players will ever see some items, while others are literally so rare that they will only ever drop once on a server. WoW has a lot of people on that particular treadmill. It's a game I tried and honestly, didn't enjoy after level 20: t's more about getting the best gear than anything. The best gear was literally make-or-break, and the person with the best gear (see: level x9 twinks in PvP) had a huge advantage that could never be made up for with any amount of skill: they had better gear, they were better characters, end of discussion.
CoX, for 9 issues, gravitated more towards a fun, casual game where anyone could get the best stuff. The player was the most important thing, not what gear they have. IOs changed that equation by introducing a new way of customiznig, which is a good thing. Making the best stuff also be the rarest is where I believe they made a huge mistake. It has led directly to beliefs that are inherently laughable. For example, that the player with the most money is more deserving of having a powerful character than someone else. Or that because a build costs x billion to create, that it is not overpowered because of the effort invested in it. This would be similar to someone showing up at a game of magic, wiping the floor with everyone , then saying that "the deck isn't too powerful: I put a lot of effort into getting those Power 9."
Bottom line is, that if IOs are a customization option, then they should be relatively easy to get, build, and slot. That is what I see them as, and what I hope for them. If they really are a powerful reward, to be hoarded only by the few, giving massive advantages, and creating a large disparity between the haves and have-nots, then they were a mistake to introduce into a casual game.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
*post deleted*
Purple Purchasing Tips "They"* Don't Want You To Know About!:
-Buy Recipes, not crafted Purples.
-Don't sell Recipes, craft and sell the crafted Purples instead.
-Turn 1 Purple drop into many by crafting it, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy more Purple recipes, craft and sell them.
*"They" is "Them". You know "Them", "They" don't want you to know "Their" secrets so "That" "They" can secretly run "The" CoX economy from "Their" ivory tower which everyone knows is made of Inf and tears.
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I think the only reasonable response is to increase the inf cap to 4 billion.
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Yeah, and price cap everything!
then we'll have a totally awesome REAL black market!
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I was joking. I'm getting close to 2 bil and I want a higher mark to shoot for.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Funny that a post that was bitter, cynical, and entirely self-righteous, you call a rational reply.
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It's the only post of yours I've read about the game economy that made even a lick of sense.
I realize you meant it to be sarcastic, but every word is gospel.
I also realize that you don't understand that, and will keep honking out your entitlement whines so all the casual gamers can purple their warshades.
C'est la vie!
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Bottom line is, that if IOs are a customization option, then they should be relatively easy to get, build, and slot.
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Funny like this is what keeps you off my ignore list.
*thumbsup*
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Dual Builds and AE kinda played a hand in the price gouging of purples recipes.
[/ QUOTE ]That word you use... I don't believe it means what you think it means.
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*sigh* it doesn't change anything, wrong word or not, demand/prices on some things have gone up. It's also interesting to see that crafted lv50 recharge IOs were going for 1 million inf hero side, but I can say that's laziness on the buyers part when you could buy/craft your own for around half that.
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Prices are hideously volatile on common and uncommon salvage due to the MA; since you don't get regular drops, and the people farming AE missions for tickets aren't going to waste them getting salvage when they can get reward rolls and sell them for hundreds of thousands if not millions, the farmers are competing in the AH for the pool of vended salvage that the people who still do regular missions put up, and since there's less salvage going into the market, the prices will jump whenever the AE farmers hit the markets for their own purchases. This is why it's volatile; I've seen Ceramic Armor Plate going for 100,000+ for the last five trades, and twelve hours later for a high of 100. And while there are some salvage that has lots of 'stock' in the AH, it seems as if a big chunk of it is listed at the blue-sky price -- so there may be 183 of a common salvage item available, but bids of 10,000-15,000 don't fetch anything, because they were all listed when that salvage was going for 80,000+ in the last AE rush.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
This thread is the soul of comedy.
Price doesn't matter. No amount of Inf matters. It's raining from the sky and all you have to do is hold your hands out to get as much as you want.
If you can't afford something, you simply dont want it very much.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
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From the outset of creating the Invention System we wanted to make sure that players desired these new, craftable items. If they didnt actually make your character better then the players wouldnt be motivated to use the system. We tried to think of new, exciting things that Enhancements could bring to the game. We determined that adding mini-powers to your existing ones had a lot of potential, as the sky would nearly be the limit on what we could accomplish with these new Enhancements. In addition we wanted Enhancements that never expired...
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With the Invention system we hope that players find a myriad of more possibilities to slot and build their character. When we introduced Enhancement Diversification in October of 2005 wed hoped that players would find alternate ways to slot their characters, and they did to an extent. This new system takes that ideal to a whole new level. With the addition of sets and the varied bonuses they give, players can now make decisions based on exactly which ways they want to be powerful.
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From the I9 updates page. IOs were promoted as a new way to add customization. As a way for players to build exactly what they wanted. They wanted them to be desirable, but [ QUOTE ]
With the Invention system we hope that players find a myriad of more possibilities to slot and build their character.
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THIS was the design goal they stated. Not a treadmill, not a system the encouraged a huge gulf in power between those with rare IOs and those without. They haven't gotten it quite right yet: the options are there, but not attanable by most players (there it is again- the system was originally designed to INCLUDE most players, as I read it.)
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
QR:
I for one am loving this sky-high salvage tsunami of almost-free cash. Stay in the AE building and ensure that MY people, who do run regular missions on a regular basis, stroll about Paragon with hefty bankrolls, I implore you all.
L00T FTW... er, Inf. for the win, or both, or whichever...
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Seriously! That's what I saw this weekend in the auction house when I went looking for an Apocalypse IO and a few other purples to complete a set I'd begun slotting several months ago.
How is *anything* going for 200 million plus inf. on the auction house? Is the system that unbalanced now? There's just no way the casual player is ever going to afford a purple recipe now - or is that the idea?
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Deleted the $ sign - sorry about that!
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I sold a purple IO on villain side for over 200mil before the i14 dropped.
Lots of them have sold for that much for a long time.
It doesn't seem like anything suddenly new to me.
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Seriously! That's what I saw this weekend in the auction house when I went looking for an Apocalypse IO and a few other purples to complete a set I'd begun slotting several months ago.
How is *anything* going for 200 million plus inf. on the auction house? Is the system that unbalanced now? There's just no way the casual player is ever going to afford a purple recipe now - or is that the idea?
*edit*
Deleted the $ sign - sorry about that!
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I sold a purple IO on villain side for over 200mil before the i14 dropped.
Lots of them have sold for that much for a long time.
It doesn't seem like anything suddenly new to me.
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FARMER!
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This thread is the soul of comedy.
Price doesn't matter. No amount of Inf matters. It's raining from the sky and all you have to do is hold your hands out to get as much as you want.
If you can't afford something, you simply dont want it very much.
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This post is distilled wisdom.
All would do well to heed its truth.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Seriously! That's what I saw this weekend in the auction house when I went looking for an Apocalypse IO and a few other purples to complete a set I'd begun slotting several months ago.
How is *anything* going for 200 million plus inf. on the auction house? Is the system that unbalanced now? There's just no way the casual player is ever going to afford a purple recipe now - or is that the idea?
*edit*
Deleted the $ sign - sorry about that!
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glad to see you post here. When I am teaming with my pals, running tf's and whatnot, if I get a purp <does happen> and I dont need it I usually give it to someone that needs it. My suggestion to you is get on some tf's, some oro missions, If you run alot of AE the dev approved ones drop them as well. doing this over time will get you and your team purps, that is, if everyone is kind, generous, patient, honest and you guys actually have an awesome team. fortunately, I am blessed to run with the best people in the known universe.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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THIS was the design goal they stated.
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And they were entirely successful.
Please highlight the parts that say "everyone should have all the stuff they want for little or no effort", because I'm missing it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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QR:
I for one am loving this sky-high salvage tsunami of almost-free cash. Stay in the AE building and ensure that MY people, who do run regular missions on a regular basis, stroll about Paragon with hefty bankrolls, I implore you all.
L00T FTW... er, Inf. for the win, or both, or whichever...
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This....my Lowbie MM is loving the paychecks 
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Omega Ghost - Lev 50 Robo/Dark MM
Ghostfall - Lev 50 Arachnos Crab Soldier
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Except the alternative of letting everyone get the shinies, letting every player have a reasonable (a loaded word, I know) chance of getting what they want. A shocking idea that a game should be FUN and not WORK, but as I've said before, other games already do the high-end powergamer-only loot thing. CoX was always great because it was a casual game. Introducing ultra-powerful loot wasnt the bad idea: making it ultra-rare was a terrible idea from what the game has always been.
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Everyone does get the shinies, if you mean an equal chance at them dropping. Everyone does get fabulously powerful enhancements easily available -- they're called SOs. You can get even more powerful enhancements that enable you to thrive against any content in the game -- almost as easily available: they're called IOs.
But to get the things intended to be very rare, no, you can't easily get them -- that would defeat their purpose.
I am of the opinion that the Devs did not design "very powerful" items and happen to make them very rare. Nobody needed more power than normal IOs give us.
It makes much more sense (from a "keeping you playing" perspective) to design ultra-rare things that are very hard to get -- and then they HAD to make them pretty powerful; otherwise no one would care if they were super hard to get but not any better then the easy-to-get stuff.
These things are a goal, something to aspire to.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Except the alternative of letting everyone get the shinies, letting every player have a reasonable (a loaded word, I know) chance of getting what they want. A shocking idea that a game should be FUN and not WORK, but as I've said before, other games already do the high-end powergamer-only loot thing. CoX was always great because it was a casual game. Introducing ultra-powerful loot wasnt the bad idea: making it ultra-rare was a terrible idea from what the game has always been.
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Everyone does get the shinies, if you mean an equal chance at them dropping. Everyone does get fabulously powerful enhancements easily available -- they're called SOs. You can get even more powerful enhancements that enable you to thrive against any content in the game -- almost as easily available: they're called IOs.
But to get the things intended to be very rare, no, you can't easily get them -- that would defeat their purpose.
I am of the opinion that the Devs did not design "very powerful" items and happen to make them very rare. Nobody needed more power than normal IOs give us.
It makes much more sense (from a "keeping you playing" perspective) to design ultra-rare things that are very hard to get -- and then they HAD to make them pretty powerful; otherwise no one would care if they were super hard to get but not any better then the easy-to-get stuff.
These things are a goal, something to aspire to.
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THIS. Tired of the inherent idiocy of it "should be casual enough but still be tought of as ultra rare" that I keep seeing spewed in the market forum.
Purples ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ULTRA RARE.
What of this statement that has been confirmed by the devs do folks not get?
Someone post BaB's joke about being casual, purples and warshades again pls.
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How is *anything* going for 200 million plus inf. on the auction house?
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280? Meh, I wouldn't buy a purple for over 80. But I'm glad my toon that I wanted to purple out got the recipes before they got high in price.
(QR)
I'm not going to read this whole thread, but if you are paying over 600mil for a purple set your crazy. The prices will eventually come down, because that little bit of extra accuracy or recharge really isn't worth 600 million ...
I have a blaster with soft capped ranged defense, and 170% global recharge, about 1 second shy from having perma hasten. I have some purple sets, but these are the cheaper purple sets such as sleep or stun. If I were to get the Armageddon and the Ragnarok sets, it would give me an extra 6% recharge roughly, and cost me over 1.2 billion. To me, 6% recharge is not worth 1.2 billion.
My suggestion to everyone is if you don't want to spend 600mil+ on a single set, use mids, and plan your build so you can slot purples from the cheaper purple sets - holds, stuns, and sleep. You can make due with 6.25 - 7.5 set recharges and the 7.5 global recharge from LoTG. I was able to get 5 of those for 60mil a piece.
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(QR)
I'm not going to read this whole thread, but if you are paying over 600mil for a purple set your crazy. The prices will eventually come down, because that little bit of extra accuracy or recharge really isn't worth 600 million ...
I have a blaster with soft capped ranged defense, and 170% global recharge, about 1 second shy from having perma hasten. I have some purple sets, but these are the cheaper purple sets such as sleep or stun. If I were to get the Armageddon and the Ragnarok sets, it would give me an extra 6% recharge roughly, and cost me over 1.2 billion. To me, 6% recharge is not worth 1.2 billion.
My suggestion to everyone is if you don't want to spend 600mil+ on a single set, use mids, and plan your build so you can slot purples from the cheaper purple sets - holds, stuns, and sleep. You can make due with 6.25 - 7.5 set recharges and the 7.5 global recharge from LoTG. I was able to get 5 of those for 60mil a piece.
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I've got 600M+ Inf. I want IOs. Why not spend it? What would be a better alternative for my Inf? Answer to your response: I've already spent money there.
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(QR)
I'm not going to read this whole thread, but if you are paying over 600mil for a purple set your crazy. The prices will eventually come down, because that little bit of extra accuracy or recharge really isn't worth 600 million ...
I have a blaster with soft capped ranged defense, and 170% global recharge, about 1 second shy from having perma hasten. I have some purple sets, but these are the cheaper purple sets such as sleep or stun. If I were to get the Armageddon and the Ragnarok sets, it would give me an extra 6% recharge roughly, and cost me over 1.2 billion. To me, 6% recharge is not worth 1.2 billion.
My suggestion to everyone is if you don't want to spend 600mil+ on a single set, use mids, and plan your build so you can slot purples from the cheaper purple sets - holds, stuns, and sleep. You can make due with 6.25 - 7.5 set recharges and the 7.5 global recharge from LoTG. I was able to get 5 of those for 60mil a piece.
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I've got 600M+ Inf. I want IOs. Why not spend it? What would be a better alternative for my Inf? Answer to your response: I've already spent money there.
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For me, with leveling as quick as it is nowadays, I just pass it off to my next toon to IO out ... I'm able to make builds with perma haste with about 1bil using the cheaper purple sets.
I don't tend to horde influence much. I usually have costume contests with 100mil prizes to make all the noobs go "ooooh .... aaaah" cause I get a kick out of it. I also use it to boost prestige. You can either spend 500mil and get 2 expensive purple IO's, or 1mil prestige. I'd rather the prestige personally.
I'm a casual player, and I make 100mil in about an hour of game play thanks to AE. I'll admit it's getting harder and harder to spend it quicker than I'm making it even as a casual player, so for a player like you smurph or any other players who are good at finding niches and/or play a lot, I can understand where you are coming from in saying there's nothing else to spend it on.
What this game really needs is a money sink. The pool of money ( influence ) keeps getting larger and larger. Hence, prices will increase.
Maybe allowing the user to purchase items like extra MA slots, character slots, costume pieces, etc. with influence would help in that regard.
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Allowing people to buy ready-made Common Inventions would be enough of a money sink, only it might not sink the right people.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree that the prices of Purple IOs is outrageous, but on the other hand, what's the big deal? It's not real money.
It's in this hyper-inflated game economy that I'm attempting to purple out my first toon. I've routinely had to purchase recipes in 100-200 mil range. I now have 22 Purples in my toon. This is in about 3 months play time...
Crazy? A Waste of time and resources? Grinding and Farming? Well, no. I simply enjoy playing this toon ( A Human Only PB ) so it never feels grindy. And I really don't have anything else to spend the Inf on. And it hasn't been that hard either. I just play... Normal ol' regular missions and TFs. No farms. And of course, I buy and sell at the market to make the real money, but that usually only involves a few minutes per play session.
Patience, children - that still is a virtue 
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That's not how an economy works though. This would eliminate profitability for business, causing ..well you know the rest.
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I am aware that there are no Inf caps in real life.
I don't know what to say. I fail to understand how you cannot grasp the "use it or lose it" concept and how an Inf cap is not related to Infaltion or Deflation. An inf cap changes the % of money people spend verse save and how willing they are to spend their money. The amount of money created in the system does not change.... unless you are at the cap... which you can avoid by spending the money... hence...