Ugh! Newbs these days.
By
Bad_Influence,
Posted on: 2009-06-30 19:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Where are new players even getting the idea that they should be farming in the Architect, anyway? Isn't that something jaded veterans do?
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I don't want this to turn into an farming argument but since you asked...
They are likely learning it from the jaded Vets
Newb: "Hey, how do I level fastest?"
Jaded Vet: "Farm AE."
Doesn't help that there's an AE in Atlas Park...
I feel that this is one of the reasons the Devs want to crack down on farming, before it becomes a pure farm fest, where even new players are farming... that's the quick route to a game dying.
Anyway, back to regularly scheduled programming.
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Where are new players even getting the idea that they should be farming in the Architect, anyway? Isn't that something jaded veterans do?
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I had an Isolator team say "Good Job want to stick together. I know a good AE farm."
They are getting them Outbreak.
*I know one example is not a pattern, but it was such a shock it stuck with me.
It's odd, though, at least from my perspective. I expect a veteran to want to level fast. After all, I'm traditional slow levelling's biggest proponent and even I can appreciate levelling fast now that I've done it all.
But what would possess a new player, one who hasn't seen anything from the the game, to want to level faster and faster? Doesn't it make sense to see the game and get a feel for it before you shoot for the end? I can only speak for myself, but I only look to level faster when I run out of interesting things to do and need that next level to get more. This shouldn't be a factor for a new player until at LEAST level 10, possibly until level 20. I remember back in the old days when I first got to level 20 and realised that ZOMG! It will take me all day to get a single level! This is horrible! THEN I might see someone look to level faster. But before that?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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New players will do AE farms for a number of reasons.
They're told it's fun. I've often heard people say "farming is the only fun thing left in the game" from jaded vets... unfortunately when you express this in Atlas broadcast newbies don't realise it's a jaded vet speaking and thus think farming is the only thing to do at all.
They think gaining levels is the goal. "Gotta get those levels fast, gotta catch up to everyone else, gotta see all that end level content, that's where all the fun is!"
There are other reasons, but I'm too tired to think 
Yea i rolled a new kin on virtue for fun, got to level 40 in a few hours, but it was surreal watchiung teams of toons in the 20's being exemped to 50 trying to take out 54 bosses. Lots of spam for stone tanks and emps lol.
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To be fair, a lot of other MMOs are basically a mad dash to the end-game... gotta level up to the cap quick so you can get to the good content, kit yourself out with the good gear, see the good stuff.
New players may not realize that CoH spreads out the good stuff instead of loading up the back end. They're just trying to get through the slow, boring, grindy stuff they assume is the only alternative, so they can play the end-game that they assume is where the fun really is.
Not that I'm justifying the behavior, just offering up a possible explanation.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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To be fair, a lot of other MMOs are basically a mad dash to the end-game... gotta level up to the cap quick so you can get to the good content, kit yourself out with the good gear, see the good stuff.
New players may not realize that CoH spreads out the good stuff instead of loading up the back end. They're just trying to get through the slow, boring, grindy stuff they assume is the only alternative, so they can play the end-game that they assume is where the fun really is.
Not that I'm justifying the behavior, just offering up a possible explanation.
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Even in other games I find those people crazy. During the short time I played WoW I was in no rush to reach the top. Only reason I quit that game was because I got tired of only being able to fight 1 thing at a time. Boring as hell.
"YOU DID NOT READ THE THREAD. GO READ THE LONG, LONG THREAD.
Then, perhaps your butt cheeks will relinquish their grip on your chin." -The_Zekiran
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To be fair, a lot of other MMOs are basically a mad dash to the end-game... gotta level up to the cap quick so you can get to the good content, kit yourself out with the good gear, see the good stuff.
New players may not realize that CoH spreads out the good stuff instead of loading up the back end. They're just trying to get through the slow, boring, grindy stuff they assume is the only alternative, so they can play the end-game that they assume is where the fun really is.
Not that I'm justifying the behavior, just offering up a possible explanation.
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Oh, of course, it's not the newbie's fault, it's the jaded vet's fault for encouraging that behaviour rather than dissuading it.
It's a combination of both the jaded vet and the assumption that every MMO is a mad dash to get to the end game content, with a sprinkling of "got to have it now" envy when they see all the things those level 50's can do.
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To be fair, a lot of other MMOs are basically a mad dash to the end-game... gotta level up to the cap quick so you can get to the good content, kit yourself out with the good gear, see the good stuff.
New players may not realize that CoH spreads out the good stuff instead of loading up the back end. They're just trying to get through the slow, boring, grindy stuff they assume is the only alternative, so they can play the end-game that they assume is where the fun really is.
Not that I'm justifying the behavior, just offering up a possible explanation.
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Oh, of course, it's not the newbie's fault, it's the jaded vet's fault for encouraging that behaviour rather than dissuading it.
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Yup I love nothing better than standing in Atlas Park telling those new people to farm because it is fun. Only reason I still pay my subscription fee, I just love this feature of the game. I sit on my Fire/Kin and tell them it is the only way to get all the good stuff.
Yup...
All of us vet players' faults... That's all we do...
(Honestly I think farming is the most boring aspect of the game, no matter if it is on a lowbie or a farming toon. But farming has to be done to keep up the market, if farming dies, so does the market. I believe power leveling has more of an impact though on a new player, taking a new player and getting them levels with 0 work is even worse. I do have a Fire/Kin, he does have all that good stuff, I do farm frequently, but I do NOT tell others to farm when they ask me "how do I level faster?")
I suppose I keep forgetting how most other MMOs are structured. I mean, not literally forgetting, but ignoring the mentality they create. For some reason, my brain always makes the connection that "new player" = "new to MMOs," which isn't actually always the case. I remember a time when we here on the forums could get together and pat each other on the back that "Ho ho ho! This was my first MMO!" I mean I'm in that boat - I hated MMOs as a concept before I bought City of Heroes never expecting to play more than a month - which is why I guess it colours my perception. I'm not sure many players remain for whom City of Heroes was a new and exciting experience, as opposed to yet another MMO.
Still, I wish we could spread the message around to new people that it's generally better to go through the low levels "proper" AT LEAST once before you start rushing for the top. Unlike most of us here with 50+ months of game time, we shouldn't expect that new players would be bored of "the low level grind" and want to get to 22 and Stamina and SOs as fast as they can, or to 50 and the "end game" or whatever. And I'm not just talking about farming or powerlevelling or even power gaming. Just the notion that one must level as fast as possible because THAT is what the game is about.
Personally, to end on a weird note, to me levelling up is like earning money: sure, it's very satisfying it earn a lot of it really fast, but money is only worth as much as the things you buy with it, and sometimes cashing in your levels to play a cool low- or mid-level piece of content is more entertaining than still more levels to no practical end before THE end, ESPECIALLY to a player who hasn't played it before. I'm looking at 60 months, and I still giggle like a little girl when I find something I haven't played before. It could be the Kheldian arcs, it could be a newly redone AT (currently experiencing Dominators for the first time) or just some unlockable contact I never got around to.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Part of the rush to the finish mindset comes from veteran "multiplayer gamers" who think that endgame is the only game. That's where the "real" game begins.
I recently had this discussion on the LOTRO forums with another player who insisted that they are forced on a frantic rush through the game to reach endgame -- because there is no other content. I pointed out that there is a *lot* of story and content in that game and that the journey itself is worth it. The response I received was "what story?" with the assertion that nobody reads that stuff anyway; it's just filler. The endgame is what "multiplayer gaming" is all about.
I've seen this mindset on several game forums; it's apparently nothing new, just befuddling to those of us who actually read stories and participate in the content. I like to follow the good storylines, fight, explore, and adventure through the games. My highest level character in CoH after three years is 32 (many alts involved here). In LOTRO I did hit 50 a couple of months ago (I'm a Founder there) -- but somebody moved the cap on me! So I've still never hit cap in an MMO. 
To me, if the journey isn't fun, there's no point in playing. Luckily, in both MMOs I play, the journey is fun.
In CoH, the MA just adds to the fun. I do both dev-created content and player-created content. It varies by character (some are no MA, some are all MA, some do both) and by what contacts are up for me. Sometimes I'll use MA to level past content that doesn't appeal to me to get to the next contact.
Variety is good.
It isnt just "other mmo's" that create that mindset in this game.
Look at the epic archtypes and how you unlock them...get to 50...
That was the ONLY reason I ever wanted a 50 on both sides...there was a type of character I had not tried and I wanted to try it.
Between other MMO's, EATS, and the number of farms going on....it is no surprise that there is a giant rush to 50.
They really should have made EATS tied to a mission or a TF/SF...unlock them in a way that has a story and depth.
What is the story behind VEATS and HEATS being unlocked at level 50? There isn't any.
I see posts every other week on "Look how many new Khelds there are!!". And that is because every newb (no negative connotations attatched to that) who comes in rushes to 50 through farms and then makes their Kheld.
Then what? What do they have to do after that? Other than ALTS there is no draw to keep playing.
I am not a negative Nancy...but I do worry for this game somewhat. And that would be about the first time I "voiced" that concern.
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I should have too, but I like to see the train wrecks happen.
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While on one? 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
That's the danger to level-gating rewards, whether it's capes, auras, EATs here or costume options, mounts, raids in other games. If it is tied to level, there will be players who feel they have to rush to that level to get the reward.
It's both a carrot on a stick intended to keep people playing and a motivation for players to look for shortcuts to rush to level, thus bypassing good content.
It can't be an easy thing for MMO devs to balance.
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To be fair, a lot of other MMOs are basically a mad dash to the end-game... gotta level up to the cap quick so you can get to the good content, kit yourself out with the good gear, see the good stuff.
New players may not realize that CoH spreads out the good stuff instead of loading up the back end. They're just trying to get through the slow, boring, grindy stuff they assume is the only alternative, so they can play the end-game that they assume is where the fun really is.
Not that I'm justifying the behavior, just offering up a possible explanation.
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Oh, of course, it's not the newbie's fault, it's the jaded vet's fault for encouraging that behaviour rather than dissuading it.
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Yup I love nothing better than standing in Atlas Park telling those new people to farm because it is fun. Only reason I still pay my subscription fee, I just love this feature of the game. I sit on my Fire/Kin and tell them it is the only way to get all the good stuff.
Yup...
All of us vet players' faults... That's all we do...
(Honestly I think farming is the most boring aspect of the game, no matter if it is on a lowbie or a farming toon. But farming has to be done to keep up the market, if farming dies, so does the market. I believe power leveling has more of an impact though on a new player, taking a new player and getting them levels with 0 work is even worse. I do have a Fire/Kin, he does have all that good stuff, I do farm frequently, but I do NOT tell others to farm when they ask me "how do I level faster?")
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Dude I have to find you in game. I have an Ice tank I've been trying to level forever. She's fricken killing me!
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It's odd, though, at least from my perspective. I expect a veteran to want to level fast. After all, I'm traditional slow levelling's biggest proponent and even I can appreciate levelling fast now that I've done it all.
But what would possess a new player, one who hasn't seen anything from the the game, to want to level faster and faster? Doesn't it make sense to see the game and get a feel for it before you shoot for the end? I can only speak for myself, but I only look to level faster when I run out of interesting things to do and need that next level to get more. This shouldn't be a factor for a new player until at LEAST level 10, possibly until level 20. I remember back in the old days when I first got to level 20 and realised that ZOMG! It will take me all day to get a single level! This is horrible! THEN I might see someone look to level faster. But before that?
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The idea that bigger is better. People want to be high lvl, they want the powers, they want the shinys. I suspect most have played other MMOs and know the power level mechanics of those games, Everquest and WoW are the specific ones I've played where powerleveling is done through dual boxing mechanics or multiple toons. End game in those two examples is different than this game. Its the same reason people buy accounts off of ebay and other RMT methods. They don't care about the effort they just want the 'high rolla'.
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Given that most AE farmers these days are completely incompetent, we should be telling newbies that they're deluded and the best way to level is with story arcs and Task Forces.
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Given that most AE farmers these days are completely incompetent, we should be telling newbies that they're deluded and the best way to level is with story arcs and Task Forces.
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Maybe every time someone enters the ae under level 20 there should be an advisory of some sort to that effect.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
Ouch. Point newbies at my MA "Welcome to Atlas Park". It's low level mobs from Atlas Park on an Atlas Park map with an SK range of 12-14. They can actually do it, learn something, and get the xp they crave. One run through clearing the whole map and they can run off to Kings Row and get their flight packs.
For humor value it looks like they might as well have just stayed outside the MA. The only difference is everything is just the right level for xp and the fallen meteor.
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I should have too, but I like to see the train wrecks happen.
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While on one?
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It can be amusing. The funny thing is to watch even the ones who think strangers should be PLing them stand around after zoning in and getting an eyeful of a huge group of 50+s staring them in the face... and its someone else's job to get the party started, because they may be new but they can recognize A World Of Hurt when they see it.
On the team I mentioned earlier, after a lot of looking the leader secured a Tank for the team. Everyone was sooooo happy, and then I quietly checked his info while we were waiting outside mission.
He was level 7.
A leve 7 Tank ain't got nothin'. No attacks. No defense, no resists, he has the sum total of jack and ****.
When we zoned in he stood there for about 30 seconds looking at the 50+s and then his logoff countdown began. Without quitting first, mind you....!
Lawltastic. 
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It isnt just "other mmo's" that create that mindset in this game.
Look at the epic archtypes and how you unlock them...get to 50...
That was the ONLY reason I ever wanted a 50 on both sides...there was a type of character I had not tried and I wanted to try it.
Between other MMO's, EATS, and the number of farms going on....it is no surprise that there is a giant rush to 50.
They really should have made EATS tied to a mission or a TF/SF...unlock them in a way that has a story and depth.
What is the story behind VEATS and HEATS being unlocked at level 50? There isn't any.
I see posts every other week on "Look how many new Khelds there are!!". And that is because every newb (no negative connotations attatched to that) who comes in rushes to 50 through farms and then makes their Kheld.
Then what? What do they have to do after that? Other than ALTS there is no draw to keep playing.
I am not a negative Nancy...but I do worry for this game somewhat. And that would be about the first time I "voiced" that concern.
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Actually Epic Architypes are fullfilling precisly the roel they were designed for - substitute End-game content.
People (like me) who LIKE a serious endgame often complained back int he day that the problem with CoH is that once you got to 50 there was nothing left to do there. Some of us liked our characters and like finally having all the tools we had worked for and didn't want to create six-hundred alts, and were none-too-pleased with the idea of a game who's end-game was to start over. The developers responded to allowing you to start over... but in a different way! Providing a small amount of aditional content, and an extremely different play experiecne, that you could only get if you had made it to level 50, but doing it not through aditional unique content, but through an additional, unique class. I would have preferd more interesting raids and task-forces myself, but even jaded powergamer that I am I have to admit Kheldians are pretty cool, and do represent a meaningful reward for getting to 50. They may not have done it in the wya I'd have prefered, but they did pretty much give us what we asked for.
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I should have too, but I like to see the train wrecks happen.
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While on one?
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It can be amusing. The funny thing is to watch even the ones who think strangers should be PLing them stand around after zoning in and getting an eyeful of a huge group of 50+s staring them in the face... and its someone else's job to get the party started, because they may be new but they can recognize A World Of Hurt when they see it.
On the team I mentioned earlier, after a lot of looking the leader secured a Tank for the team. Everyone was sooooo happy, and then I quietly checked his info while we were waiting outside mission.
He was level 7.
A leve 7 Tank ain't got nothin'. No attacks. No defense, no resists, he has the sum total of jack and ****.
When we zoned in he stood there for about 30 seconds looking at the 50+s and then his logoff countdown began. Without quitting first, mind you....!
Lawltastic.
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Win!
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Actually Epic Architypes are fullfilling precisly the roel they were designed for - substitute End-game content.
People (like me) who LIKE a serious endgame often complained back int he day that the problem with CoH is that once you got to 50 there was nothing left to do there. Some of us liked our characters and like finally having all the tools we had worked for and didn't want to create six-hundred alts, and were none-too-pleased with the idea of a game who's end-game was to start over. The developers responded to allowing you to start over... but in a different way! Providing a small amount of aditional content, and an extremely different play experiecne, that you could only get if you had made it to level 50, but doing it not through aditional unique content, but through an additional, unique class. I would have preferd more interesting raids and task-forces myself, but even jaded powergamer that I am I have to admit Kheldians are pretty cool, and do represent a meaningful reward for getting to 50. They may not have done it in the wya I'd have prefered, but they did pretty much give us what we asked for.
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You're a weirdo, and definitely do not represent the typical CoH player.
Where are new players even getting the idea that they should be farming in the Architect, anyway? Isn't that something jaded veterans do?