Ugh! Newbs these days.
By
Bad_Influence,
Posted on: 2009-06-30 19:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams. They can then learn the game is FUN so when they finally get to a zone with an AE, they won't feel so inclined to farm it right away all the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but I tend to think that even if the AE buildings were only in PvP zones, the same problem would still exist... word gets around and newbs 'gotz-ta-haz-thar-stuffz'. But that just may be the jaded vet in me talking. 
Look on the bright side, I don't think newbs are actually getting powerlevelled anymore. If anything they're levelling slower than before.
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams. They can then learn the game is FUN so when they finally get to a zone with an AE, they won't feel so inclined to farm it right away all the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
As i was reading this reply I just had an idea...
Rather than remove AE from lowbie zones. Give the max lvl AE mission someone can see in that specific AE zone no higher than the intended lvl Cap for the zone. IE if someone is in Atlas AE area, give them maybe a lvl 10 cap for the AE missions they can see. If you can't cap the missions ppl can see then maybe limit the max cap that someone can attain in those zones. IE if you sidekick someone in the Atlas AE the max they can go up to is 10. Anyone over 10 in those missions gets Exemped to 10.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
[ QUOTE ]
I was robbed of my hilarious n00b train wreck story! 
[/ QUOTE ]
Now that's a tragic story!
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
[ QUOTE ]
I should have too, but I like to see the train wrecks happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since MA's introduction I have witnessed to some outlandish n00berie...
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Idiots have always been idiots. AE didnt change anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
With all the recent foo-furrah about the MA/AE farming thing, people seem to have forgotten that there were n00bs loooong before the AE/MA.
[/ QUOTE ]
However, prior to the MA, getting your noobbutt PL'd to 50 generally meant that you had to have a couple of friends playing the game who already had 50s and were willing to get you to Peregrine and then PL you; now they can just go straight to Atlas and saunter over to the AE building while waiting for someone to solicit for more members for his farm team because he needs a full team to get the best ticket drop rate for himself. You don't need to know anyone who already plays the game; all you need to do is show up.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how effective that will be, because I well remember the days when PI was full of <10s.
Last night my level 44 was in PI for a bit. I was literally the only person in the zone. Since Atlas has more than enough people in it by default, i am wondering if we really perhaps do NOT need MA buildings in Atlas, KR, Galaxy and Steel. If the "entitled" want to PL, let's make them travel a bit to do it, like they had to do back in the day.
Leave the lowbies in Atlas, upper-level people return to upper-level zones. I think its an idea at least worth trying.
I'll admit that I love the AE. Not for farming, but for player-content.
Everytime I see "AE team forming. Send tell" I always ask "What level please?" When I get back "L50" and I'm on a lowbie, I just reply "No thx. I'm too low." 9 outa 10 times "It auto SKs you" comes back.
When will people learn that an SKed toon with 3 unslotted powers is still gonna get murdered?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how effective that will be, because I well remember the days when PI was full of <10s.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's true, but keep in mind that those <10s were people who wanted to be PL'd so much they made the trek to Peregrine. They already had enough familiarity with the game to not only know the zone exists and that PLing can be found there, but knew how to get there too. If they were able to make the trip without taking shortcuts through a SG base or have someone bring them, and manage to avoid the street mobs and not get killed, then they already had a fundamental knowledge of the game.
In Atlas Park, none of that is required. A new player who may naturally want to join a team will find tons of invites and not know that AE is one of the last things he should be doing. It's these players that make it a good reason to remove AE from Atlas. The people who have made up their mind they want to get PL'd will find a way to do so. They'll make the trek to Peregrine. Removing AE from the lower zones will let the true new players experience enough of the game to learn the basics without being distracted or accidently PL'd by AE.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
^^^ those are excellent points...
I think the thing that bugs me is that if you are in the MA building as a level 50 these days, you are EXPECTED to PL. It is now your JOB. Strangers are ENTITLED to your going out of your way to level them up.
Not so much, unless you and I are good friends. My level 50 is in the MA building to generate Prestige and Inf. for myself and my SG. I'm not there to PL stranger-newbs, altho if not more than two are on the team I am ok with it. I'm there because if I want to run MA missions, I *have* to go to Atlas to find a team. I am in essence forced to be in the zone.
This strikes me as borked, so I'm rapidly moving to the mindset that MA needs to be out of at least Atlas, KR and Galaxy. I'm draconian and if it were up to me, I'd yank it out of Steel too. 
I have been running more regular missions lately anyways; the MA is starting to give me a massive headache. I am just so tired of all this crap.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how effective that will be, because I well remember the days when PI was full of <10s.
Last night my level 44 was in PI for a bit. I was literally the only person in the zone. Since Atlas has more than enough people in it by default, i am wondering if we really perhaps do NOT need MA buildings in Atlas, KR, Galaxy and Steel. If the "entitled" want to PL, let's make them travel a bit to do it, like they had to do back in the day.
Leave the lowbies in Atlas, upper-level people return to upper-level zones. I think its an idea at least worth trying.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a solution, keep the AE building in lowbie zones, but surround them with lvl 50 Night Widows and Rikti drones that patrol the perimeter. If you can get past them and enter the AE building at level 2, then you have earned the right to PL in my opinion.
And Snipers. Lots of Snipers.
"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?"
- Abraham Lincoln
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A partial solution to this, in my opinion, is to remove AE buildings from lowbie zones. This eliminate most of the farm spam in broadcast, this will allow the newbies to enter the game in the traditional way, doing official content and getting real teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how effective that will be, because I well remember the days when PI was full of <10s.
Last night my level 44 was in PI for a bit. I was literally the only person in the zone. Since Atlas has more than enough people in it by default, i am wondering if we really perhaps do NOT need MA buildings in Atlas, KR, Galaxy and Steel. If the "entitled" want to PL, let's make them travel a bit to do it, like they had to do back in the day.
Leave the lowbies in Atlas, upper-level people return to upper-level zones. I think its an idea at least worth trying.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a solution, keep the AE building in lowbie zones, but surround them with lvl 50 Night Widows and Rikti drones that patrol the perimeter. If you can get past them and enter the AE building at level 2, then you have earned the right to PL in my opinion.
[/ QUOTE ] Have a teammate TP you past them and/or get SK'd. Problem solved.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm draconian and if it were up to me, I'd yank it out of Steel too.
[/ QUOTE ] Atlas, GC, and Kings Row wouldn't bother me. But I like having it in Steel Canyon because there is a WW and University. Very handy.
All we are missing is an exotic massage parlor and Steel would be the only zone we need!
There is one, but I guess nobody told you about it.
A couple of very interesting points have been made, which I feel need to be addressed.
Firstly, where before the allure of "super fast levelling" was something that a player had to actually get off his butt and leg it to get to, now it's something that's literally within an arm's reach. It's gone from being relatively easy, to being a given. People are right - you're never going to keep people who want to fast-track to 50 from doing so. Ever. It's not possible, but you CAN keep people who aren't interested, are on the fence or plain don't know any better from being sucked into it by just locking it behind what is essentially only slightly more than token effort. Making the Architect so easily available to every new character (it's within sight of where you zone in for the first time) simply creates a culture where Architect farms are the status quo, not one where they're an option that you could go out of your way and choose.
It's like when you want a beer. If there's one in the cooler on the table, why would you NOT have one? But if you had to get off your couch and walk ALL the way to the kitchen... Eh, that's no longer as enticing.
The other interesting point is that, before, all the powerlevelling was happening in one place and people started in quite another. It wasn't easy for a new player to get from one to the other, but it wasn't exactly hard, either. However, it REQUIRED people to get up and go to where the powerlevelling is. The Architect Entertainment building in Atlas Park bridged the gap, bringing the powerlevelling all the way back to Atlas Park, and putting both new players and jaded veterans in the same place. Now new players are exposed to farms and powerlevelling and the general "gotta' get to the end" attitude that used to be restricted to higher level zones.
It's like being sat on a table of all smokers. Even if you don't cave in and start smoking, yourself, you're still breathing that stuff in and getting used to it.
Generally speaking, Bad is right. High-level players should be sticking to high-level zones, not congregating in the lowest-level zone of them all. What's more, they shouldn't feel like they HAVE to go to a low-level zone if they want to find a team. There used to be a time when hearing "lvl 45 def lft" in Atlas Park was an absurd oddity. And well it should be, but it isn't these days.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
So... I read this whole thread, and I felt compelled enough to register for the forums to comment. I figured you guys would enjoy a 'newb' perspective.
I re-subscribed to this game a matter of days ago with a new account - the last time I played being just before the release of City of Villains. Fundamentally, the game has changed very much. The invention system, the flashback system (which I'm not quite able to check out, but I read up on it a bit), and even just all the new content all makes me feel as if I've never played this game before. I'm forced to learn everything from point zero.
As I left the tutorial and loaded into Atlas Park, my chat box was filled with lots and lots of request from either a) low-level characters looking for an AE team, or b) high level AE 'boss farms' looking for very specific members (usually a high level tank). But, as this was essentially my first immersion into the game, I was very, VERY confused at the chaos. Atlas Park, the iconic starting zone, honestly scared me. I didn't know what to do, where to go, or who to talk to. So... I just went to my first contact (Antonio Nash, I believe) and did all the missions he had to offer.
I had managed to avoid the AE up until Lv. 11, when I was on late (like... 1:30 in the morning) and I could no longer find a team or anyone to join a team. I sent a tell to one player, a Controller, asking them if they would like to team with me. Instead, I was told that I should just go join an AE team cause I wouldn't need to do regular missions anymore.
So, I went to join one.
I leveled to 18 in less an hour. I felt so guilty. See, I bought the game to play the game, not to get to the end. As soon as I could, I left the team and tried to go solo some more of my Hollows content. But, alas, I outleveled it. Which sucks, cause I wanted to finish that content.
So basically, my impression is this: the AE/MA/whatever we want to call it has no purpose other than to get to the end before you even know what you're missing. I think most new players are lured into it because of the chaos that it creates in Atlas. And, if they aren't then, chances are someone will say something that will draw them to it later. I can see why the quick leveling is appealing, but I don't really like how it's created an almost elitist attitude among players hardly more experienced than I am.
I don't really like the MA. The only reason I'd go back any time soon is to create my own arcs or play a real, non-farming arc as content and not a leveling mechanism.
But, then again, to each his own. At least you've got one new player that isn't a MA junkie. 
Also, sorry if this isn't too coherent. It's 4:30 in the morning and I haven't gone to sleep yet.
Welcome to the boards, Gearspark, and I would like to extend a BIG "Thank you!" for registering to post this. A lot of us here on the forums are old, jaded vets, even if some of us don't want to admit it, and we so very often lack the fresh, unbiassed perspective of a purely new player. Or, at least as new as they come What you posted really is a very interesting, unique look at things that most of us here can pretty much just theorise about.
It's also more than a little troubling what you faced. It is, essentially, my biggest fear for the game. I've been an opponent to all of the fast-track ways to the top on a principle matter - they spoil the game. I quickly realised that this is what some people WANT, and have made it a point not to criticise the veterans who want to skip what they've done already. Their dime, their time. It has always been my concern, however, that this attitude is infecting the new players, those who haven't actually seen what the game has to offer, and presenting them with a vision of the game that is NOT at all appealing to anyone who's interested in playing a game.
City of Heroes isn't a game that's all about grinding and farming and getting to 50 so you can grind and farm level 50 stuff. It can be, sure, if that's what people want, but it doesn't HAVE to be. This needs to be the message new players get when they first log in, that this is a fun, exciting game that you can pick up at any time, log in for an hour, alone or with friends, get something done and log off satisfied. This is what the game IS and what brought many of us here in the first place. It shouldn't look like a Korean grindfest MMO just because that's what people turn it into after five years of continuous play.
With this in mind, I would SERIOUSLY move the Architect buildings out of Atlas Park, Galaxy City and King's Row, as well as out of Mercy Island and Cap Au Diable. This isn't to stop people from using them for whatever they want to use them for, it's to get the madness out of the eyes of all the genuinely new players until they have gotten at least SOME gameplay in and gotten SOME feel for the actual game.
First impressions count, and we can't support the game with just those of us here with 2004 reg dates. We need new players, and we can't afford to jade them right out the door.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Indeed, very worrying, thank you for posting Gearspark.
On a weird note, I heard a team broadcasting for a 'high level dragon' in Atlas. What the hey?
Ugh. Vets these days.
Always acting like they know whats best for everyone else.
[ QUOTE ]
On a weird note, I heard a team broadcasting for a 'high level dragon' in Atlas. What the hey?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, now I want to know if they found it.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
[ QUOTE ]
...
I had managed to avoid the AE up until Lv. 11, when I was on late (like... 1:30 in the morning) and I could no longer find a team or anyone to join a team. I sent a tell to one player, a Controller, asking them if they would like to team with me. Instead, I was told that I should just go join an AE team cause I wouldn't need to do regular missions anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome back, and thanks for joining the forums. It's great to have the perspective of a relatively new player.
That paragraph is what I found troubling. The view that "regular missions" are somehow a necessary evil that we can now avoid. The regular missions are fun and the heart of the game. I know there will be people who respond to that with "it's not challenging and it's repetitive and boring" or some such nonsense.
Those are the jaded vets. What makes them jaded is that they can't see for a moment how wrong they are. If regular missions were boring or bad, they wouldn't be vets. They started out as a newbie just like everyone else. They started playing the early content and had fun. The fact they stayed proves there must have been a fun factor involved because they would've quit if it there wasn't. It's because they played that early content so many times that they're bored with it now. They should realize that a new player will be having the same fun and enjoyment that they themselves had years ago when they started playing.
I did smile when you said you stopped after you hit level 18 and felt "guilty". You instinctively realized that you were missing on some very good times.
Skulls and Hellions and Clockwork and Vahzilok are all so familiar to us vets and nothing we'd go out of our way for, but to a new player, they're the thrill of discovery. Going up against Dr. Vahzilok the first time is a wonderful experience in all regards, and I smile when I think about the first time I came up against him. One of the best character models in the game is also one of the first real "bosses" you'll come across. And new players can easily zip right past Dr. Vhaz and never see him in the future because they PL'd way too soon in their subscription.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Yesterday I was rolling my MM around Cap, hitting the tailor, the market, etc. This one guy keeps broadcasting to start up an AE team with the comment about "especially if a healer" or something to that effect. I was sorta bored and had my "anything is good" flag up so he tags me and I join.
I tell him "I'm a /Dark MM I have some heals," but another player in the group kept insisting the /Dark MM heals are "worthless" (matter of opinion imho) so the leader kept looking for a healer. Needless to say, none were found (I wonder what AT he was looking at for healing too).
So he goes "well, we're not going to get very far without a healer" and I say "that only depends if you're not playing well."
You can see this coming right? He quits the team.
A few went with him, I tried to lead the rest into an arc but something with our respective levels or something was keeping us from getting XP so the rest fell away quickly (which btw gives you some idea why I don't lead usually - I still have no idea why that didn't work out).
But I'm still mad about the whole thing - I was robbed of my hilarious n00b train wreck story!