AT Respecs, the next evolution for CoX?

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I dunno Bill, lately a lot of the things that no one thought would come to the game are either here or on the way.

Flashbacks, side switching, body changing and power customization are a few that jump right out at me. Personally, I hope total respecs never see the light of day. But these guys have surprised me latley.

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Bill's copy pasta pretty much covers the reasons not to allow this functionality. As far as I am concerned, we'll never allow this...but, of course, I've been wrong before.

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I have to say, I hope this option never sees the light of day too. We have enough character slots, why do we need AT respecs? And that in a nutshell is why I think we'll never see it. I dont think the playerbase wants it. At least most of it anyways, judging by what I read here.

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'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)

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*snerk* copypasta. Does that come with awesome sauce?

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Dude. People on the sidewalk outside are probably wondering what I'm laughing at.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

I wouldn't mind respecing powersets though VEATs can already do this >.>

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I wouldn't mind respecing powersets though VEATs can already do this >.>

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Kinda but not really. That is how they are set up and where meant to be that way.

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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

If it does happen I see it as a way for many people to salvage character that were nerfed into the ground from the previous issues. I would definately respec into something else for my namesake character. I would respec my storm defender, all of my trollers who had empathy that werent mind control, all my trollers who were kinetics werent mind control. Even if they didnt give a full respec I would be glad if I could start over at level 1 but still keep all my badges but allow me to pick another primary/secondary.

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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

Well why not just... you know, delete them and remake em? I mean, that's ... what the slots are for... Or move them to another server to keep their name and badges, and then remake it again "the right way".

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Well why not just... you know, delete them and remake em? I mean, that's ... what the slots are for... Or move them to another server to keep their name and badges, and then remake it again "the right way".

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Why not just find another game that offers the hope of not having your effort stomped into the ground doused in gasoline and set one fire ?

Not everyone is or wants to be an altaholic. Seeing a character you have spent hundreds of hours on destroyed is not pleasant.

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Primary/Secondary

You're sure to hear this repeated a good bit - Just because you've played one set, doesn't mean you know how to play them all.

For instance, my namesake tank is a Fire/Superstrength tank. I know how he plays. The most similar powerset to him at the time of writing is Dark Armor. It's resistance based, it has no knockback protection, it has a damage aura, a self heal that does damage - it even has a self rez as its tier9.

They don't play anything alike. (I can say this, because I also have a version that's DA/SS.) Fire has no Psi protection. It has no stealth. Burn has a far different effect than Oppressive Gloom, and nothing similar to Cloak of Fear. It calls for a thoroughly different style of play. With Fire, I can leave my toggles on and go to town. With Dark Armor, I have to be selective, or the times I have to herd stragglers (for instance) won't work exceptionally well. Dark Armor also does not have anything like Consume to help out with Endurance - that's in Dark Melee.

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Play style for all tanks: Go first, hit things, hold aggro. I suppose "survive" could be added to that, but that's generally everyone's goal. Since you choose the powers during a respec you should already have a basic idea what your character can do provided you can read. This game isn't exactly rocket surgery.

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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

Um, if it was worth spending hundreds of hours on, how in the world is it "destroyed"? Oh wait, this is a PvP / Nerf Whatever rant right?

And how would being able to change the AT of something *fix a character you'd already spent hundreds of hours on with those powersets*? It would be a TOTALLY DIFFERENT character.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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If you change a fundamental part of what makes your character YOURS, you're throwing away the effort you made leveling and enhancing it anyway. It's not the character you had before, so why the attachment? You obviously don't like it if you're changing it in such a drastic way.

Reroll. If the name is important, go to another server.

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Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

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Um, if it was worth spending hundreds of hours on, how in the world is it "destroyed"?

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Because if it was deleted, all those hundred of hours spent on that character would ultimately be wasted and not everyone thinks that it's that easy just deleting a character whom they've spent those hours and days spending on levelling and IO sets?

Seriously, how is it not easy to understand?

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And that's why I said in the post you didn't quite read, "move it to another server and keep the badges/name". Why is THAT a problem? I've known at least two Protectorites who've done just that, remade their "signature" character over again with new powersets once they were available, after having moved the original off to 'storage' on another server.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I agree with not allowing AT respecs, but should they ever allow a powerset respec I would hand deliver one of those gift baskets to Paragon Studios. I know it probably won't ever happen, but I'd still be so happy.

Basically, one of the first characters I ever made was a katana/invuln scrapper. I was never super happy with /inv, but I made do because there wasn't a better option for "just naturally tough" at the time. I love her backstory and costumes, and badged the heck out of her and played her up to the mid-30s. And then I kinda quit playing her, because I realized I just don't really like /invuln.

Then the devs came out with Willpower. Oh ye gods and little fishes, it's perfect for her! But...I am allergic to deleting characters. It's a personal failing, I know (and I say that without any snark). Not to mention, she has a ton of badges, and her default costume is something you just can't get anymore. So, ain't no way I'm deleting her. Transferring her to another server and finally rerolling to katana/wp is something I MIGHT do, but man...I still hold out hope for the tiny fraction of a chance they'll allow powerset respecs.

Course, all that said, I totally get why they don't want to do it. I should just suck it up and deal. Who knows, one of these days I might even find the powerset fun again.

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I'm just a holy fool, oh baby it's so cruel


Thessalia, by Darkchildx2k

I actually recreated a similar character on my home server after having made another long before. I wound up with proper dual blades, instead of merely a katana on the new one. Same name and everything, but just... you know, more like I intended. I've shuffled at least 2 characters off Protector and onto another server to make room, and set up a "theme" on that other server for them to have their own little sg.

We have plenty of options.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Well why not just... you know, delete them and remake em? I mean, that's ... what the slots are for... Or move them to another server to keep their name and badges, and then remake it again "the right way".

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Why not just find another game that offers the hope of not having your effort stomped into the ground doused in gasoline and set one fire ?

Not everyone is or wants to be an altaholic. Seeing a character you have spent hundreds of hours on destroyed is not pleasant.

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Sure, that will happen just as soon as a game is released that is perfectly balanced in every way at launch and nothing in the game that changes ever affects that balance.

It's not fun I'm sure, but it's the nature of the beast.

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"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

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I couldn't disagree more with Bill's cut and paste post.

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Except for this part...

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Gameplay
There are also two other things to consider.
1. The game is designed around alts.

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So I guess you do find something you agree with in that post since thats the whole thrust of yours.

The Cut and Paste is a COLLECTION of objections. You don't have to agree with all of them and if you have a totally new one I'm sure it will be added.

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I don't particularly agree with even that section of Bill's copy and paste post. Though I do mention alts, the point of my post is that if the Developers give people a full AT Resepec, they are shooting themselves in the foot business wise by letting users experience too much of the content too quickly.

While Bill mentions the game is designed around Alts, he doesn't really talk about the fact that many people would get done with this game much faster and the Developers would have a lot less in long term subscriptions.

I don't really think this is the same point, if other people do well then *shrug*. Don't know what to say about that.

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"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

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With Going Rogue, we will be able to change sides.

With MA we can create custom critters with different power sets.

PVP, the Arenas, Power Proliferation, all this, one would assume that there is a lot of datamining going on.

Doesn't it seem that one peice of the natural evolution for CoX is the ability to respec to a different AT, or powerset within that AT?

Personally, I think yes, only because I have had to re-roll my main several times the Devs create a new powerset that brings the original concept for my main closer to fruition

Discuss!

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I don't see any logical progression between what has occurred and what you propose.

I do not support this idea. Having alts is half the reason they make new powersets in the first place, IMO.

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I support being able to respec to powersets for which one has leveled at least one character to 50, including to powersets in different ATs. Sure, players might not have played a particular combination all the way to 50, but they would know enough about the powersets to quickly learn.

Those who might have wanted to swap out one powerset, but didn't want to re-play a character using the same other powerset that they already played, could instead play a brand new character with two different powersets (that included the one they wanted to switch to).

Similarly, those who wanted to switch ATs might level up two different characters of the destination AT, each having one of the desired powersets. While that would be more work than starting over, psychologically it might feel better to create new characters than to restart one. And ultimately, the player would end up with three characters, each having their own stories, instead of just one whose life was merely re-lived.

This type of AT respec would encourage players who might otherwise give up to create new characters, and thus would actually promote the creation of alts. It would allow people to feel like they were starting fresh, while giving their existing characters new life.

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Even if they didnt give a full respec I would be glad if I could start over at level 1 but still keep all my badges but allow me to pick another primary/secondary.

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I agree with you here. Mainly that's because some of those badges can't be gotten on new characters (e.g. the Anniversary ones), and others are just a PITA. I'd rather have all of the anniversary and hard-to-get badges on a character I *actually play*, then parked in a museum somewhere.

That being said, if this feature ever sees the light of day, it should be as a microtransaction. Spend $10, and you can completely re-roll your character:<ul type="square">[*]The rerolled character keeps: influence, SG affiliation and prestige history, costumes slots, costume pieces, badges, souvenirs, temporary powers, and any other goodies that they've unlocked, either by leveling up or by actions they've taken. [*]Missions they've done remain done. Missions they haven't done, or contacts they haven't unlocked, can be done when they reach the appropriate level again. This is feasible on Heroes, but more problematic on Villains. Going Rogue may (or may not) make this more feasible for both sides, depending on if we get new low-level content with the expansion.[*]They lose their character level (either down to L1, or maybe L10 or L20) but get enough patrol XP credit to last them until they get back to their current level (less whatever's lost by being defeated).[/list]
IOs are a tricky problem. Part of me thinks that, if its worth the pain of starting over, it should also be worth the pain to handle the IOs before you reroll (selling what you don't want, finding a way to store what you do, etc). OTOH, I really think IO inventory and slotting rules need to be reconsidered in general, not just to handle this special case. Enhancement inventory has been arguable broken since IOs were introduced, and things have only gotten worse since dual builds. That's really a separate issue, though, and tricky mainly because of its potential impact on the economy.

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Most I'd ever hope for is the ability to respec your Primary and Secondary. I mean, drastic power changes do happen in comics. But changing your AT seems like it'd just lead to a giant mess.

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I support being able to respec to powersets for which one has leveled at least one character to 50, including to powersets in different ATs. Sure, players might not have played a particular combination all the way to 50, but they would know enough about the powersets to quickly learn.



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No, they wouldn't.

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If it does happen I see it as a way for many people to salvage character that were nerfed into the ground from the previous issues. I would definately respec into something else for my namesake character. I would respec my storm defender, all of my trollers who had empathy that werent mind control, all my trollers who were kinetics werent mind control. Even if they didnt give a full respec I would be glad if I could start over at level 1 but still keep all my badges but allow me to pick another primary/secondary.

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Im sorry, are you suggesting that empathy was 'nerfed into the ground' for controllers ?
The AB +recharge portion not affect pets is 'nerfed into the ground' ?

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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

Understandable.

What I would hope though is an expansion of the dual build system, that would allow for true multi builds. You would have the option to switch an alternate true build for your chracter, that can be any AT (faction restrictions may apply, or not with Going Rogue), however, you would have to level the new build normally. So you could be a Scrapper on one build, but a Blaster on the second (but each would have to be levelled through normal means of course)

The benefit isn't huge in general, you could just roll a new character, since you have to level the new build normally anyway.

I would personally love such a feature, simply for story reasons, the background, powers and such of my 'mains' could have gone in a different direction. Sunwind for example is FM/WP Scrapper, but she could have easily been a Tank with the same sets, or a Fire Blaster.

I guess I am a bit old fashioned, I am still attached to the 'having a main character' idea with all what that implies with badges, achievements, roleplaying, social contacts etc., while still wanting do experience different playstyles, just on the 'same' character. The @globalname chatsystem isn't enough for me.

I know some people feel the same, naming their characters similar indicating that is the same character person wise, just a different variation powerwise.

But depending how much Dev time such a system would take, compared to how many people would use it, it is probably unlikely to happen, since, as said, you could just roll a new char *shrugs*

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If it does happen I see it as a way for many people to salvage character that were nerfed into the ground from the previous issues. I would definately respec into something else for my namesake character. I would respec my storm defender, all of my trollers who had empathy that werent mind control, all my trollers who were kinetics werent mind control. Even if they didnt give a full respec I would be glad if I could start over at level 1 but still keep all my badges but allow me to pick another primary/secondary.

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Im sorry, are you suggesting that empathy was 'nerfed into the ground' for controllers ?
The AB +recharge portion not affect pets is 'nerfed into the ground' ?

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Since no character ever has been "nerfed into the ground," this statement is false on its face. The only good way to "salvage" characters is to remake them as far as I'm concerned.

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I dunno Bill, lately a lot of the things that no one thought would come to the game are either here or on the way.

Flashbacks, side switching, body changing and power customization are a few that jump right out at me. Personally, I hope total respecs never see the light of day. But these guys have surprised me latley.

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Bill's copy pasta pretty much covers the reasons not to allow this functionality. As far as I am concerned, we'll never allow this...but, of course, I've been wrong before.

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I would love to make my fire/ice tank an ice/fire... I would even start back out from level one and re-earn the experience needed to earn level 50 again.

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YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember