[ QUOTE ]
I remember reading Castle saying, in effect, that the Reichsman fight was meant to be a "devices fight", or rather, a gimmick fight requiring choreography and coordination.
Which means, in effect, that apart from the costume and MA changes there is effectively no new content in i15. I got sick enough of failing and failing again against that sort of rubbish in other online games. Somebody is out of place. Someone does the wrong thing at the wrong time. The raid wipes: start over. There is much screaming and recrimination. Ventrilo or Teamspeak is required. The guild breaks up: this is "serious business". Lose 50 DKP!
This is a major reason why I no longer play those games. I seriously hope that this has been changed from the Test version.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol ... then again there hasn't been new content since I1 by this premise 
Heraclea, I understand what you mean having been a veteran of leading WoW raids, however I don't think you get quite the same effect out of an eight man group as you do from a 24 or 40 man raid.
Besides people will complain (like this thread) and the devs will nerf it down so a three year old epileptic sloth with ADD could do it .... like the rest of the "content" in the game.
[ QUOTE ]
He has a mag 100 stun that does-def and -res with a ton of damage and iirc it's aoe. 2 hits after that thing and it's team wipe central.
It seems to have lower accuracy though, I'm not sure which defense I'd need to slot for to help against it.
[/ QUOTE ]
any values on the -def or -res? Affected by debuff resistance?
sounds like my ice tank (via hibernate) will be the next hot tank for this TF.
and, is it an AOE or cone? I can turn him away from the team if its a cone. AOE, well range fighters will be fine, scrappers will have to take their chances.
How quickly do the 2-hit and your out occur? Enough time to pop unstoppable (if you have it) or dull pain? Pop a few extra inspirations, if available?
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
I just did an Invincible PuG Reichsman TF on Freedom. During the last mission nobody ever got hit by the mag100 stun ; I actually felt stupid because I told the emp it might be a good idea to stack CM on the tanker, but then the emp DCed for 20 minutes and nothing happened, so he stopped stacking CM at all. Our tanker being Shield without Aid Self had no trouble tanking the level 52 Reichsman even while the emp was gone, although his life yo-yoed a bit during that time. It took us about a hour to take him down so it's not because we killed him fast either, and I doubt we just "lucked out" over such a long period. His biggest hit (remember, as a +2, not an even con), did about 1300 damage on folks without resistances, and his AoEs having high knockback the squishies weren't standing around for the follow up to kill them unless they ran back to him right away.
Frankly, I think you should run it before shouting doom, unless my team ran into an exceptional AI bug it looked challenging but fine, rather tedious to *kill* him with his Unstoppable but I'm expecting it would have gone a lot faster if we had done it on Heroic.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe get yourself a bubbler, and some CM love and have at it. Try some different team makeup's and I'm sure there are quite a few options that will work.
[/ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, the minute the tank needs support to tank the finale, that invalidates Tankers.
In other words, if this AV needs someone bubbled/buffed up and being healed to tank it, why not just get a Scrapper? Or a Brute.
Which is the core of the issue I have with developers and how they treat and regard Tankers.
They'll penalize a Tanker with lower damage because of their ability to tank for a team, but hypocritically they won't hesitate to try to nullify or reduce that niche with enemies who circumvent that survivability advantage.
If a Scrapper can't tank an AV without support, and a Tanker can't tank the same AV without support, but both can with support (and such is true; already I've watched Scrappers tank this TF with support) then what is the point of the Tanker?
None. None at all.
They have no problem removing the need and advantage of a Tanker, while at the same time refusing to stop punishing the Tanker with crappy damage for that "advantage".
[/ QUOTE ]
But...
The Blaster is punished when AVs, EBs, and everything in Mission Architect take too many hits to be quickly killed, and deal out huge damage that Blasters cannot endure.
The Controller is punished when AVs, EBs, everything in Mission Architect, and in fact an increasing number of high-end enemies have status protection 00 or cmplete status immunity.
The Defender is punished when Tankers and Scrappers don't need or want buffs and debuffs, and the Defender can't do enough damage to take down AVs, EBs, and half the things in Mission Architect quickly enough.
The Scrapper is neither swan nor goose -- not matching Blasters for damag, while not being as sturdy as Tankers. In a world where it seems like everyone boss-farms at high end, what role is left for the boss-killer? Sure, you can buff a Scrapper up like a Tanker if you can find any buffers playing, but it's harder to do, and why bother if everyone's a boss-killer?
It seems like every AT has a potential complaint like this. Why are Tankers any different?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Ummm I only battled him once on Test with a 50 level WP/DB Tanker and stood pounding on him for an hour without dying once. The main problem then, an GOD I hope once the dang patch finally finishes downloading I can test, was his Unstoppable. I think we had him down to almost no hit points at least 5 or 6 times and then UNSTOPPABLE! No one could touch him for what seemed an eternity and by the time it dropped he was back at full strength and it was time to start all over again. I did go through a few greens and blues but nothing worse than any other AV I have faced .. we just didn't have the DPS to take him out. He's not a killing machine but unless they listened and changed his powers its one long hard battle trying to defeat him.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
From reading these posts, I'm guessing that Reichsman isn't a pushover compared to most of the AVs in this game? Good, I like challenges.
[ QUOTE ]
From reading these posts, I'm guessing that Reichsman isn't a pushover compared to most of the AVs in this game? Good, I like challenges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reichsman isn't an AV. He's a Reichsman.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Actually it seems -tohit and +defense will be a fine workaround to survive him. My previous cry of doom (tm) was based on the team i ran on test before various changes. In my run he had high regen and popped unstoppable every other minute.
I've heard some cries of impossibility on live, but most people seem to have enough -tohit to make him cake.
Also I couldn't tell how his damage was due to the -tohit so I'm not sure if his damage is still as high as it was.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
I tanked Reichsman for literally an hour on Test, but that was when I15 first went up. I assume there's been some big changes since then. I look forward to trying it out in a couple weeks when I'm back from vacation.
This is how new TFs usually go though:
Week 1 - "This is way too hard!"
Week 2 - "We did it in ten minutes!"
Week 3 - "I soloed it!"
[ QUOTE ]
I tanked Reichsman for literally an hour on Test, but that was when I15 first went up. I assume there's been some big changes since then. I look forward to trying it out in a couple weeks when I'm back from vacation.
This is how new TFs usually go though:
Week 1 - "This is way too hard!"
Week 2 - "We did it in ten minutes!"
Week 3 - "I soloed it!"
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT!
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
This is how new TFs usually go though:
Week 1 - "This is way too hard!"
Week 2 - "We did it in ten minutes!"
Week 3 - "I soloed it!"
[/ QUOTE ]
Based on what I had read on the boards, the new TF was actually challenging.
Based on the responses of people on my global channels (my Guardian channels seem to be better than my Virtue ones...1-2 hour times versus 3-4 hours, lol), it's not any worse than ITF/LGTF/STF.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
Just tanked him with my SG and my Fire/Fire. Each time he called an AV our SR scrapper would intercept then run it over to me and I would get it into the taunt bubble. I would then hold Reich and the other AV while they killed the add. The fight took roughly an hour but he wasn't really putting out any huge damage that I could see. His unstoppable on the other hand was super annoying.
I haven't done the blue side TF yet, but I did do the villainside TF on my DM/WP brute, the one I use as a red side tanker.
Reichsman was rather boring. Not really difficult when you had the temp powers, though. He did have an annoying tendency to heal himself back to full health.
The many ambushes in the final mission were amusing for me, but not at all fun for the rest of the team. If the blue side final mission is anything similar, tankers will not worry about losing a place on the team at all.
At 2 1/2 hours, I didn't have enough time to run both in an evening, so I spent the rest of the night making mauve and hot pink Fifth Columns.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
[ QUOTE ]
I remember reading Castle saying, in effect, that the Reichsman fight was meant to be a "devices fight", or rather, a gimmick fight requiring choreography and coordination.
Which means, in effect, that apart from the costume and MA changes there is effectively no new content in i15. I got sick enough of failing and failing again against that sort of rubbish in other online games. Somebody is out of place. Someone does the wrong thing at the wrong time. The raid wipes: start over. There is much screaming and recrimination. Ventrilo or Teamspeak is required. The guild breaks up: this is "serious business". Lose 50 DKP!
This is a major reason why I no longer play those games. I seriously hope that this has been changed from the Test version.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know Heraclea, I think that something that requires more than simply running in and beating the tar out of the bad guy is kind of refreshing. Maybe this means that the game will start to move away from the tired old "Damage is king" model that we've seen for the last 5 years. I, for one, would be happy to see them add alternatives to grievous bodily harm for defeating our enemies.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
You must remember, 'There's nothing in this issue I like' is the exact same thing as 'This issue has nothing in it'.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is the best advice I can give in this case.
Don't run poorly designed content and don't validate the developers crapping on Tankers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was rhetorical. Obviously you don't give positive good advise just based on the fact that at the end you had to jam in the tanker damage thing... again.
Moving on. As others have said. Defense seems to be the new resistance so stock up on defense sets, maybe get yourself a bubbler, and some CM love and have at it. Try some different team makeup's and I'm sure there are quite a few options that will work.
I'm sure they aren't going to integrate a TF that isn't possible to defeat (regardless of what J_B says) with the current balance, however I must say I'm glad if they really are ratcheting the difficulty curve up... particularly before GR for the villains used to more difficulty.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay! Another TF requiring a cookie cutter makeup.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is the best advice I can give in this case.
Don't run poorly designed content and don't validate the developers crapping on Tankers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was rhetorical. Obviously you don't give positive good advise just based on the fact that at the end you had to jam in the tanker damage thing... again.
Moving on. As others have said. Defense seems to be the new resistance so stock up on defense sets, maybe get yourself a bubbler, and some CM love and have at it. Try some different team makeup's and I'm sure there are quite a few options that will work.
I'm sure they aren't going to integrate a TF that isn't possible to defeat (regardless of what J_B says) with the current balance, however I must say I'm glad if they really are ratcheting the difficulty curve up... particularly before GR for the villains used to more difficulty.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay! Another TF requiring a cookie cutter makeup.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, 'another'? There aren't any TFs (pre I15) that had a required setup. I think most would agree that the STF is (one of) the hardest available to heroes, yet it's been done on some very sub-optimal teams (all Tanker / all Scrapper).
I'd agree that a balanced team makes it easier, but there is no single team makeup required for any hero TF. Even with similar ATs layouts, powersets can vary significantly and still be successful.
Group need more survivability? Bring a Tank, or Emp, or FF, or Cold, or ...
Need more damage? Bring another Blaster, or Scrapper, or debuffer, or ...
Having trouble killing an AV? Bring more -res, or -regen, or Shivans, or nukes, or ...
Need a stealther (for speed)? Grab a stalker, or someone with Stealth (+ss or stealth IO), or Shadow Fall (+ss or stealth IO), or Steamy Mist (+ss or stealth IO), or ...
Have IOs? Great, you just made satisfying all of the above easier for even more flexibility!
So, even optimized teams have plenty of different flavors. Even if the Reichsman TF (or whatever the abbreviation becomes) has some absolutely required makeup, it would be a first of a kind in this game.
Note: No, I still haven't done the new TF. Regardless, the 'another' comment really doesn't hold any water.
<QR>
Just ran it on Live. The version I tested last week is the one that went live. The story has gaping holes, nothing has any rhyme or reason, and the whole thing is easy with any regular PuG. Only two of us had tried it on Test, everyone else was rookie. Run on Test was 1:47. Run tonight on Live was 0:58. As long as you can deal with the AVs, Reichsman is just a bag of hitpoints.
We had a couple rads, so we actually kept pounding Reichs while the AVs came after us, and they just fell over time. We had him and 3 of the AVs at once, and no big problems. The thunder aoe with the mag 100 stun only hit us a few times. We had a cold for def, which definitely made a difference.
People should be able to run it easy just at 30 minutes after running it once and getting the lay of the land.
The messed up story annoys me so much that I'll probably never run it again. From what I hear the villains story is much more well developed, but the run is hard. As it should be.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe get yourself a bubbler, and some CM love and have at it. Try some different team makeup's and I'm sure there are quite a few options that will work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heck if JB hates it I need to send the Devs some flowers and a 6pack, anyone know what Castle drinks?
In my opinion, the minute the tank needs support to tank the finale, that invalidates Tankers.
In other words, if this AV needs someone bubbled/buffed up and being healed to tank it, why not just get a Scrapper? Or a Brute.
Which is the core of the issue I have with developers and how they treat and regard Tankers.
They'll penalize a Tanker with lower damage because of their ability to tank for a team, but hypocritically they won't hesitate to try to nullify or reduce that niche with enemies who circumvent that survivability advantage.
If a Scrapper can't tank an AV without support, and a Tanker can't tank the same AV without support, but both can with support (and such is true; already I've watched Scrappers tank this TF with support) then what is the point of the Tanker?
None. None at all.
They have no problem removing the need and advantage of a Tanker, while at the same time refusing to stop punishing the Tanker with crappy damage for that "advantage".
If this was on the eve of giving Tankers more damage or something, making them less sturdy by default would fly with me. But I doubt that's on the horizon. So what we have here are the devs creating yet another enemy to crap on Tanker defenses while at the same time continuing to crap on their offense as well.
That doesn't fly with me.
.
[/ QUOTE ]
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
Logged on right when the servers went up and formed a team:
2 emps
1 kin
1 stone tank
2 blasters
2 scrappers
The missions went without a hitch, the last one was just annoying. Kept banging on Mr. Bison (yeah that's what we called him, especially when he ran around) and he did eventually give up and come peacefully. The 4 AVs around him fell rather easily well.
It was just keeping Mr. Bison's regen down... it took so long (2 hours total) because his regen and we were excited and stuff. But overall it was okay.
Personally, not nearly as good as the STF/LRSF or even challenging as the ITF.
Yeah, we heard other successes of 45 minutes, with 2 rads and a kin... and we heard of some failures, where people just didn't have the -regen.
It is what it is, another thing to do. With regards to the tanking, I don't feel we are obsolete. I ain't down for the count yet. I want to tank this with my Ice/BA.
Ok, I'm done for now. 
@Tax E - RIP CoH 2012
We're never gonna survive, unless...
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is the best advice I can give in this case.
Don't run poorly designed content and don't validate the developers crapping on Tankers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was rhetorical. Obviously you don't give positive good advise just based on the fact that at the end you had to jam in the tanker damage thing... again.
Moving on. As others have said. Defense seems to be the new resistance so stock up on defense sets, maybe get yourself a bubbler, and some CM love and have at it. Try some different team makeup's and I'm sure there are quite a few options that will work.
I'm sure they aren't going to integrate a TF that isn't possible to defeat (regardless of what J_B says) with the current balance, however I must say I'm glad if they really are ratcheting the difficulty curve up... particularly before GR for the villains used to more difficulty.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay! Another TF requiring a cookie cutter makeup.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, 'another'? There aren't any TFs (pre I15) that had a required setup. I think most would agree that the STF is (one of) the hardest available to heroes, yet it's been done on some very sub-optimal teams (all Tanker / all Scrapper).
I'd agree that a balanced team makes it easier, but there is no single team makeup required for any hero TF. Even with similar ATs layouts, powersets can vary significantly and still be successful.
Group need more survivability? Bring a Tank, or Emp, or FF, or Cold, or ...
Need more damage? Bring another Blaster, or Scrapper, or debuffer, or ...
Having trouble killing an AV? Bring more -res, or -regen, or Shivans, or nukes, or ...
Need a stealther (for speed)? Grab a stalker, or someone with Stealth (+ss or stealth IO), or Shadow Fall (+ss or stealth IO), or Steamy Mist (+ss or stealth IO), or ...
Have IOs? Great, you just made satisfying all of the above easier for even more flexibility!
So, even optimized teams have plenty of different flavors. Even if the Reichsman TF (or whatever the abbreviation becomes) has some absolutely required makeup, it would be a first of a kind in this game.
Note: No, I still haven't done the new TF. Regardless, the 'another' comment really doesn't hold any water.
[/ QUOTE ]
My apologies. Let me restate. Yay! Another TF that players will think needs a cookie cutter makeup. I can't wait to hear more "Need a Stone Tank" and "Need a Rad" broadcasts.
His mega stun hit is countered by the temp power. When the big universe pops up above his head, just go blast him with it and he'll shut up.
After that, it's just one long slog.
[ QUOTE ]
From what I hear the villains story is much more well developed, but the run is hard. As it should be.
[/ QUOTE ]I can't imagine any person who knows anything about stories saying that about the Barracuda SF.
[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, the minute the tank needs support to tank the finale, that invalidates Tankers.
In other words, if this AV needs someone bubbled/buffed up and being healed to tank it, why not just get a Scrapper? Or a Brute.
Which is the core of the issue I have with developers and how they treat and regard Tankers.
They'll penalize a Tanker with lower damage because of their ability to tank for a team, but hypocritically they won't hesitate to try to nullify or reduce that niche with enemies who circumvent that survivability advantage.
If a Scrapper can't tank an AV without support, and a Tanker can't tank the same AV without support, but both can with support (and such is true; already I've watched Scrappers tank this TF with support) then what is the point of the Tanker?
None. None at all.
They have no problem removing the need and advantage of a Tanker, while at the same time refusing to stop punishing the Tanker with crappy damage for that "advantage".
If this was on the eve of giving Tankers more damage or something, making them less sturdy by de facto would fly with me. But I doubt that's on the horizon. So what we have here are the devs creating yet another enemy to crap on Tanker defenses while at the same time continuing to crap on their offense as well.
That doesn't fly with me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't waste your breath derailing another thread so that you can somehow manage to say that "this same topic has come up for 3 years". If that's the only way you can help your invalid argument to get this fake "look at the forums" data point, I guess you have to do what you have to do.
Nothing to see here folks. Move along.