That's an awful large leap to get that he must be soft capped. The far simpler solution is exactly what the quoted poster implies: the tank was dumb.
How is that hard to get?
That behavior is another reason we exclude Empaths. Our Tanks don't need the stupid buff. The other Defenders? Yes, give them the buff. They need it!
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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That's an awful large leap to get that he must be soft capped. The far simpler solution is exactly what the quoted poster implies: the tank was dumb.
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Considering how high the actual defenses of a Tanker can get, it's actually not that difficult to imagine, and it actually provides a decent explanation for his/her request. Even if the Tanker wasn't softcapped but was simply quite simply capable of surviving without any need for buffs, it's still applicable. Giving the Tanker extra defenses doesn't really serve much good outside of allowing the Tanker to do a little bit more damage. Giving it to a Blaster would not only generate more damage but the Blaster would also be getting more real effect from the +def. In my experience, once you hit the mid 30s, most intelligent Tankers (re: the ones that would actually be smart enough to say "I don't need this buff") are fully capable of taking whatever a mission can throw at them without need for outside help. For target selective buffs like Fortitude, it generally better serves the team to place it on a squishy in the un/likely event that the Tanker doesn't grab all aggro and some critter hate is directed towards said squishy.
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Last night I saw a tanker tell the defender not to Fort him, he said " Don't fort me, cause it doesn't help me much "....
I mean buffs are buffs right?
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If he's already softcapped, then all he's getting is a most likely unneeded +tohit buff (he's probably already dancing at the 95% chance to hit mark) and a small +dam buff. The tank was more likely politely recommending that you give it to someone else that could put the buff to greater use, especially that phat +def buff that everyone should know and love. Annoyingly enough, I've had a number of Tankers (and Scrappers) that, even knowing that they're deeply over the def softcap and have more than adequate tohit to maintain 95% chance to hit, insist on getting Fortitude over other members of the team because they insist it makes a difference (even though the actual +dam effect they would experience is roughly equivalent to getting another SO in their attacks).
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When I'm tanking with an emp, or any buff build, I just let them do their thing.
Personally, though, I'd rather the emp fort the blaster or controller or a SK, esp. a SK. If a controller is having trouble hitting mobs with holds for some reason, the fort helps them hit. I know how fast a controller can go through endurance if they have to throw holds multiple times because of a miss.
I rarely if ever fort a tank. Waste of the buff as long as there are other defender/controllers/blasters/khelds around.
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I rarely if ever fort a tank. Waste of the buff as long as there are other defender/controllers/blasters/khelds around.
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Most emp defs know this already, or they soon learn that it's true (usually a polite /tell from the tank or another teammate is all that is needed).
I always use my long recharge buffs on a simple system of who needs it. RA's down and you're running low on Endurance? AB. Getting hit a lot as a Blaster or Scrapper? Frostwork. If your a SK or someone who's beneath the level of the team? Fort. However, for short recharge buffs, everyone is getting them.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
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So, I've been playing my new Force Field / Dark Blast Defender for a little over a month now, and I ran into this the other day.
"Don't bubble me, please. And turn off your big bubble. I don't like the way they look on my toon. Nothing against you personally."
Now, I've been playing the game off and on for four years. I've heard of people asking not to be speed boosted, and asking Thermals not to buff them. This is the first time I can ever recall someone asking not to be bubbled, and for Dispersion Bubble to be turned off. WTF?
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Haven't ever seen this myself. The buffs people usually don't like are Group Invis and the cold armor, because both obscure costumes.
As a tank, I personally don't like Group Invis because I have trouble judging my location.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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Last night I saw a tanker tell the defender not to Fort him, he said " Don't fort me, cause it doesn't help me much "....
I mean buffs are buffs right?
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If the tanker is near the defense cap, and has self-capped their damage (possible for some tankers) then fort doesn't help them much. Just as Speed Boost doesn't really help my claw/sr, but instead can hurt me. If I really want more +speed I'll hit elude and turn on sprint, then run at about 78 mph. If I really want more +recharge... Well I don't need it honestly. Elude isn't needed constantly, and it's recharged long before it's needed again usually. If I need more endurance recovery, I'll just hit conserve power and gain endurance while spamming attacks anyway.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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So, I've been playing my new Force Field / Dark Blast Defender for a little over a month now, and I ran into this the other day.
"Don't bubble me, please. And turn off your big bubble. I don't like the way they look on my toon. Nothing against you personally."
Now, I've been playing the game off and on for four years. I've heard of people asking not to be speed boosted, and asking Thermals not to buff them. This is the first time I can ever recall someone asking not to be bubbled, and for Dispersion Bubble to be turned off. WTF?
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Haven't ever seen this myself. The buffs people usually don't like are Group Invis and the cold armor, because both obscure costumes.
As a tank, I personally don't like Group Invis because I have trouble judging my location.
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Most people don't like group invis because they mistakenly think it messes with aggro. You know, the whole "don't invis the tank!" deal.
Well it would make RATIONAL sense for someone to not be aggroed to a foe that can't be seen. Too bad this game doesn't follow logic much of the time.
I was always under the impression that invisibility messes with alpha strikes, not so much aggro. Basically, unstruck mobs tend to fire their first attack at the first person they see, and that attack is usually one of their most powerful. If the tank runs in and fails to hit or taunt the mob, and the mob doesn't see him/her, its likely to fire its alpha at the first person who strikes it, which is often a Controller or Blaster.
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I was always under the impression that invisibility messes with alpha strikes, not so much aggro. Basically, unstruck mobs tend to fire their first attack at the first person they see, and that attack is usually one of their most powerful. If the tank runs in and fails to hit or taunt the mob, and the mob doesn't see him/her, its likely to fire its alpha at the first person who strikes it, which is often a Controller or Blaster.
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I thought group invis gets negated entirely if you attack?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
But attacking (wherever it hits or not), you reveal yourself. That suppresses some of the bonus of being invisibility, but you still get some small defense plus.
As a person that been under enough Group Invis, I haven't really noticed a different in play between invis and not. Most times, the worst I've seen is someone gets too far ahead and gets in trouble once the group invis wears off.
/Empaths can turn three people into Jesus, one person into God, and everyone else into the twelve apostles.~Angry_Citizen
Don't you know that discussion of power selection/slotting can ONLY be based on hearsay, rumor, idle speculation, and bald-faced lies??!? ~Elf_Sniper
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That's an awful large leap to get that he must be soft capped. The far simpler solution is exactly what the quoted poster implies: the tank was dumb.
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Considering how high the actual defenses of a Tanker can get, it's actually not that difficult to imagine, and it actually provides a decent explanation for his/her request. Even if the Tanker wasn't softcapped but was simply quite simply capable of surviving without any need for buffs, it's still applicable. Giving the Tanker extra defenses doesn't really serve much good outside of allowing the Tanker to do a little bit more damage. Giving it to a Blaster would not only generate more damage but the Blaster would also be getting more real effect from the +def. In my experience, once you hit the mid 30s, most intelligent Tankers (re: the ones that would actually be smart enough to say "I don't need this buff") are fully capable of taking whatever a mission can throw at them without need for outside help. For target selective buffs like Fortitude, it generally better serves the team to place it on a squishy in the un/likely event that the Tanker doesn't grab all aggro and some critter hate is directed towards said squishy.
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I've played with tanks that have requested this. (Not a surprise, if you've played an emp for over 4 years.) I tend to ignore this advice, and here's how that works: I start out by not buffing the tank. Generally tanks have the most control over aggro and ability to deal with such, and often times they have better defenses when surrounded by more enemies, so it's sometimes hard to gauge their performance, but it's not hard to build a tank that can handle most encounters without outside help from an emp.
If I notice that the tank needs healing on a regular basis, he'll end up as a fortitude target, regardless of whether or not he needs it. I've got better things to do than heal, and fortitude is my biggest tool there.
Sure, it's a bit more work to evaluate the team to determine where to throw buffs (especially on teams where the team composition changes over the course of a play session), but it's effective. The only issue I have with this technique is that on high-performance teams, it's sometimes non-obvious who needs it (since on some of those teams, both defense and to hit are unnecessary, and if there's a kin on the team, +damage doesn't do much good either.) But on those teams I'm happy to play my emp as a blapper, so it all works out.
Does fort provide psi defense? If not, then ice tanks may honestly not get much use out of it... unless dealing with things that only do fire damage.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Even soft capped, I've seen a few tanks regard Fort like a safety blanket. You don't really need it, but it makes you feel better when you have it.
But I will agree on a high-performance team, Forts are hard to figure out who can benefit for it the most. Most teams like that, I just start from the top of the list and watch to try and gauge the numbers. Most times I just give-up and start giving each member a turn at Fort unless told otherwise.
/Empaths can turn three people into Jesus, one person into God, and everyone else into the twelve apostles.~Angry_Citizen
Don't you know that discussion of power selection/slotting can ONLY be based on hearsay, rumor, idle speculation, and bald-faced lies??!? ~Elf_Sniper
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Does fort provide psi defense? If not, then ice tanks may honestly not get much use out of it... unless dealing with things that only do fire damage.
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Fortitude provides "DEF(All Types, Melee, Ranged, AOE) +15% for 120s [Non-resistable]*", so the answer would be yes.
*Unenhanced values for a Defender. Actual values may vary by AT and slotting.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
On a side note, DA tanks may need a lot of healing, but they can cover that them self. What they need more is +recovery. That way they can afford to run their toggles, attack, and use dark regen.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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The only time I've had serious complaints about bubbles was with the old Sonic graphics - and that wasn't aesthetics, that was "they make me physically ill."
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I really hate the "Fire" effect for Thermal Shields. It hurts my eyes, especially on a big team. It's too big and too busy.
But then the Purple caves hurt my eyes as well.
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On a side note, DA tanks may need a lot of healing, but they can cover that them self. What they need more is +recovery. That way they can afford to run their toggles, attack, and use dark regen.
[/ QUOTE ]And Rage crashes (perma-raged Death Shroud is a glorious thing and well worth losing 1/4 my end bar every 2 minutes).
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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I appreciate ones that keep everyone from being stunned/mezzed ad infinitum during Ship Raids
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With all the sleeps flying around, the Dispersion Bubble (or at least *my* Dispersion Bubble) wasn't doing a whole lot of good a lot of the time...
[/ QUOTE ]It was preventing the hard mezzes still. Most of the sleeps in this game come from mobs that use Blind (a combo ST hold/AoE sleep), or use most of the mind control set (in which case they'll have holds as well). Not to mention that Rikti with all their sleeps also have stuns on their blasters. Trust me, it really does do something, since all those other mezzes stick around, but sleep disappears if you get hit or healed.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Defense prevents Sleeps.
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On a side note, DA tanks may need a lot of healing, but they can cover that them self. What they need more is +recovery. That way they can afford to run their toggles, attack, and use dark regen.
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Dark Armor LOVES Kinetics
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Last night I saw a tanker tell the defender not to Fort him, he said " Don't fort me, cause it doesn't help me much "....
I mean buffs are buffs right?
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If he's already softcapped, then all he's getting is a most likely unneeded +tohit buff (he's probably already dancing at the 95% chance to hit mark) and a small +dam buff. The tank was more likely politely recommending that you give it to someone else that could put the buff to greater use, especially that phat +def buff that everyone should know and love. Annoyingly enough, I've had a number of Tankers (and Scrappers) that, even knowing that they're deeply over the def softcap and have more than adequate tohit to maintain 95% chance to hit, insist on getting Fortitude over other members of the team because they insist it makes a difference (even though the actual +dam effect they would experience is roughly equivalent to getting another SO in their attacks).