Ummmm, I always thought it was a bit more common than I guess others here thought. I've solo'd plenty of AV's with my controller, obviously some are much easier than others, but then, its much easier to do it with a controller, or at least I think so. If you can do it with another AT, thats great, at least you know how to use your toon.
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Ummmm, I always thought it was a bit more common than I guess others here thought. I've solo'd plenty of AV's with my controller, obviously some are much easier than others, but then, its much easier to do it with a controller, or at least I think so. If you can do it with another AT, thats great, at least you know how to use your toon.
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I haven't played controllers, but my understanding is that you're correct. I think scrappers get a reputation for it because we're crazy enough to try against the odds and vocal about our successes, not because it's the best AT to get the job done.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'd say overall it's pretty uncommon. My AV soloer has the AVs he's beaten solo listed in his ID, and I've had several people flat out call me a liar for saying I beat all of them solo.
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See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I believe DM/Regen could do it. I might try to make an all-SO build in build slot 2 just to try it. I know way back in the day my DM/Regen soloed Maestro as an AV, although it took forever, and that was back in 2006 long before inventions (but also before AVs were made more resistant to tohit debuffs I believe). Not the toughest AV in the world, but I think the most important point is that over a very long fight I managed to not run out of endurance, which is one of the sticking points for scrappers with enough damage in theory.
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Hear that, Umbral? Now you GOTTA solo an AV using only SOs! 
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I'll up the ante and say, TOs only.
Sure finding level 50 TOs is kinda tough now, but that's all part of the challenge.
I think you can buy lvl 50 TOs for tickets.
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/SR has actually been through quite a few changes.
Issue 0 it was at passives: 5%((11% enhanced) toggles: 10%(22% enhanced). Yes, really, this is what Gecko thought was balanced compared to toggle instant healing.
sometime down the line, they go up to 10% and 20% respectively. I-5 was the global defense nerf which brought them to what they are now, which is close to what they used to be(go figure), and I-6 was ED. The magic 45 was not in effect until I-7, and it was a rough 2 issues for some defense characters.
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SR has been through more changes that most people think. SR was 10% passives and 20% toggles right up to the point where the Rikti were banging on the door, as far as I know. Between turning off the lights in beta and launch they cut the numbers in half because they saw that SR fully slotted could tank a ton of stuff (in effect, fully slotted SR with a power pool or two was Eluded against even level anything). Somehow, Geko thought cutting the numbers in *half* was the right thing to do there. Problem was that the game conspired against him, when it became clear that a) that was too deep of a cut and b) no one was fighting even levels anyway. So around I1 SR was doubled back up again.
However, if you think SR wasn't changed between then and I5, think again. SR was in effect stealth nerfed by a change everyone knows about but almost no one thinks about: SR couldn't have stayed 10/20 forever, because the scrapper modifiers couldn't have been 1.0 all the way to I5: at some point the scrapper modifiers were made 75% of tanker modifiers and the numbers had to go down to 7.5/15. It probably happened at the same time the devs made the first of the Invuln changes in I1, but no one mentioned that those changes would affect anything besides Invuln (in retrospect, they had to).
There was also the short-lived AoE defense buff post I5 as part of the devs' attempt to deal with the scaling tohit of critters (back when they were fiddling with critter tohit, which started off 50/62.5/75/95 for minions/Lts/Bosses/AVs and migrated to 50/57.5/65/75) before the I7 critter accuracy scaler.
Also, there's the I2 change of Elude from Superspeed+PFF to the click defense power it is now (but originally perma). When you throw in scaling resistances, debuff resistances, and that unfortunate bug with quickness, SR has actually been changed practically every issue from beta to release to I7.
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/SR has actually been through quite a few changes.
Issue 0 it was at passives: 5%((11% enhanced) toggles: 10%(22% enhanced). Yes, really, this is what Gecko thought was balanced compared to toggle instant healing.
sometime down the line, they go up to 10% and 20% respectively. I-5 was the global defense nerf which brought them to what they are now, which is close to what they used to be(go figure), and I-6 was ED. The magic 45 was not in effect until I-7, and it was a rough 2 issues for some defense characters.
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Yes, I remember this very clearly, my Claws/SR with the crazy long animations picked up Stealth toggle and suddenly was way more defensive. Popping a purple was "zomg" strong on top of that!
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See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I believe DM/Regen could do it. I might try to make an all-SO build in build slot 2 just to try it. I know way back in the day my DM/Regen soloed Maestro as an AV, although it took forever, and that was back in 2006 long before inventions (but also before AVs were made more resistant to tohit debuffs I believe). Not the toughest AV in the world, but I think the most important point is that over a very long fight I managed to not run out of endurance, which is one of the sticking points for scrappers with enough damage in theory.
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Hear that, Umbral? Now you GOTTA solo an AV using only SOs!
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Am I being called out? Wha?
Does it count if I did it years ago before the EB/AV change? I solo'd every single arc on my DM/Regen back in the day, but, then again, that was with toggle IH and pre-ED. The only ones I couldn't take out were the highly neg resistant AVs, but that was generally because they had absurd regen back then. I'll look into setting up a build, but I doubt it would actually work. One of the problems with running */Regen pre-IOs against AVs is that you have a problem keeping up the mitigation to actually make your regeneration and heals keep you up.
DM/WP might be a better contender, especially if facing a psy AV like Malaise or Mother Mayhem.
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It's tempting for me to think of soloing AV's as easy and expect anyone to be able to do it. But then I stop and think about what all it really takes to get there.
1. You have to believe it's possible.
2. You have to understand attack chains. Maybe not to the extent that some of us understand them, but you need to be able to calculate the recharge in your attacks, or find someone to do it for you.
3. You have to understand IOs. This isn't terribly complicated, but if you try to explain them to a new player, you realize that it's not terribly simple either.
4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
8. You need to know how to make money on the market.
(7 and 8 are probably the biggest stoppers for the average person... at my play rate starting from 0 that takes 4-5 months dedicated to 1 toon to get from 0 to 50 with cash to purple him out).
9. You have to have the patience to fight 1 battle for at least 5 minutes... 12-15 minutes is common, and 45 minutes is not unheard of... (and Werner actually took a few hours on one.. which is probably grounds for being institutionalized).
It's not uncommon for me to spend more time outside of the game working on builds and attack chains and plans on a given week then I spend actually playing the game. I'd imagine a lot of AV solo'ers have weeks like that as well. That's probably not very appealing to most people.
All that said, I do think the general population now is getting past step 1. I rarely run into people who tell me they think it's impossible to solo an AV... it's much more common for people to say "Hey... you're Shred Monkey!"
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No. 7 and 8 I have done no. 7 once and No. 8 there is a work around 8 has never been a problem... the rest are easy a 4 year veteran here and over 40 lvl 50's some were a test to see if i would like others are on the shelf for those just in case in a tf and a mission.
Uncommon, not because of expense, but because it is boring and tedious (for most of us, to each their own etc etc).
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Who here has seen the video of Hobo Healer's emp and Infernal ? Between the nukes, the buffed Shivan and Amy, he only got a few shots into the fight. Excessive temp powers makes it very easy, but again, that is the way into this thing we do. Make it easy at first then gradually ramp up your own personal challange.
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I think I hit him three times before the Shivan dropped him. It was pretty silly. I had thought about going back and doing it again with less, but the hassle of reacquiring the temps, doing the mission, etc. on my Empath was not worth the quick laugh.
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So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I believe DM/Regen could do it. I might try to make an all-SO build in build slot 2 just to try it.
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Hear that, Umbral? Now you GOTTA solo an AV using only SOs!
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Am I being called out? Wha?
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Well, SOMEONE has to get this ball rolling, and Arcanaville thinks it'll roll, so it's totally official now. Maybe you can beat us to the punch. My build is JUST on the edge of being able to do it, but I've been busy, and it looks like it will take a lot of tries. Thought maybe you'd want to be the first of what I hope will become many. 
Maybe there's some other AV that would be easier for me. Manticore was easiest for me on my IO build, but the debuffs are an issue on the SO build, so maybe there's an easier one. None of them are jumping out at me, though.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
OK so I was buying into this SO AV stuff thingy...
Dressed up my Claws/SR, went and tried Marauder just for kicks, and 3-4 minutes later I barely put a dent to him. I guess I found out the hard way what everyone has been talking about, that claws is near the buttom on DPS...
Maybe a different build at this... Kat/Regen looks good, maybe even a Kat/WP... But since Kat/Regen is takin and I hate WP, I'm gonna go ahead and push my 40 Fire/SR to 50 and try him out...
Ohhh...
Werner, If you could have Chimera stay at range for most of the fight, I'm thinking that might be the way to go...
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Ohhh...
Werner, If you could have Chimera stay at range for most of the fight, I'm thinking that might be the way to go...
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AI exploit! It might just work! 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Been gone a long while...
I just wanted to add and I didn't read the entire thread so this may have been said already.
With my soloer, Shado-Strike, he really doesn't limit his use much by being able to solo AVs. Probably couldn't solo all of them but I have soloed a few AVs and even the AV Duo of Crimson and Indigo, but he also does groups well.
Btw, both times I fought Chimera I started with a ranged attack and he didn't switch to his Kat until he was between a 4th and a 8th of life.
50's: Heroes: Ozmeth DB/WP; Black Decker DM/Regen; Shado-Strike DM/SR Scrapper (13 AV soloed); Desert-Shock Claws/Elec Scrapper; Shado-Shriek Dark/Son Def
Villains: Bokken Nin/Nin
Current project(s):
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Ohhh...
Werner, If you could have Chimera stay at range for most of the fight, I'm thinking that might be the way to go...
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AI exploit! It might just work!
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Bah. I forgot that Chimera is resistant to lethal. He's a no go, so I gave Marauder a try. He hits harder than Manticore, but at least I'm not dealing with debuffs. I made better and faster progress, getting him down about 1/3 of the way in about 20 minutes before he finally killed me. If one point of data is an average, then I should be able to beat him about one time in 8, but that's still a lot of work. I guess I need an AV vulnerable to lethal that does mostly melee or lethal damage.
Anti-matter is vulnerable to lethal, but he'd probably snuff me about five seconds after Moment of Glory wore off. Malaise is vulnerable to lethal, but he's got a lot of non-positional psi damage. Worth a shot, I suppose. I'm not seeing anyone else that is susceptible to lethal. So I guess the next best bet is a low damage lethal AV so that I can focus on attacking instead of staying alive. Ideas?
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Bobcat?
Edit: Her damage may not exactly be super low, but she uses almost all melee and doesn't have any res to lethal. She was the easiest AV of all of them for me on my kat/regen.
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Bobcat?
Edit: Her damage may not exactly be super low, but she uses almost all melee and doesn't have any res to lethal. She was the easiest AV of all of them for me on my kat/regen.
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Made it about ten minutes. Didn't make much progress. She has Elude or something, so I'd go through periods where I couldn't hit, which meant my defense would drop, which meant I'd get hit a lot. She is vulnerable to negative energy, so I might be able to get her on an SO version of Sergei.
Malaise tore me apart quickly, maybe three minutes or so. So even though he's vulnerable to lethal, it doesn't look good.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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So I guess the next best bet is a low damage lethal AV so that I can focus on attacking instead of staying alive. Ideas?
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Use Sergei vs Shadowhunter and immobalize him at range. Werner might be ok vs shadowhunter, too since he's mostly melee, but sergei gets 20% damage bonus vs him from dark attacks.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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So I guess the next best bet is a low damage lethal AV so that I can focus on attacking instead of staying alive. Ideas?
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Use Sergei vs Shadowhunter and immobalize him at range. Werner might be ok vs shadowhunter, too since he's mostly melee, but sergei gets 20% damage bonus vs him from dark attacks.
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Looks like Bobcat is vulnerable to negative as well. So yeah, maybe Bobcat or Shadowhunter on Sergei. Shouldn't be too hard to throw together a build for him.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
QR
I tried soloing Dominatrix for a while and got bored with her.
Then I looked up her resists and walked away. She can't kill me at all, so I guess it's just a standstill. (DM/SD)
I doubt I'd be able to take any AV's on a SO build but it's worth a shot.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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Looks like Bobcat is vulnerable to negative as well. So yeah, maybe Bobcat or Shadowhunter on Sergei. Shouldn't be too hard to throw together a build for him.
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Oh, that's right. Shadowhunter has defense debuffs and defense. I can handle it on my normal build because I have a lot of to hit and because Divine Avalanche recharges much faster. But I spent most of the fairly short fight heavily debuffed and getting hit repeatedly. The good news is that he doesn't hit very hard. The bad news was that I couldn't keep up with it forever. After maybe five minutes, I just had nothing left.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Looks like Bobcat is vulnerable to negative as well. So yeah, maybe Bobcat or Shadowhunter on Sergei. Shouldn't be too hard to throw together a build for him.
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Oh, that's right. Shadowhunter has defense debuffs and defense. I can handle it on my normal build because I have a lot of to hit and because Divine Avalanche recharges much faster. But I spent most of the fairly short fight heavily debuffed and getting hit repeatedly. The good news is that he doesn't hit very hard. The bad news was that I couldn't keep up with it forever. After maybe five minutes, I just had nothing left.
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I think it's rather interesting that even the "easiest" AVs are stoppers for us without IOs (thus far). I'm certain other ATs can solo AVs with only SOs, but so far, my list of requirements for soloing an AV earlier in this thread when applied to scrappers fighting today is holding up to scruitiny.
I looked at a build for Shred Monkey myself this morning thinking with BF>attack vitals, and /SR I should be able to come up with both damage and survivability to win... but after running the numbers through my spreadsheets, I think I'd lose too much damage and endurance efficiency from lack of IOs to succeed. Maybe if I allow HOs and/or insperations.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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I think it's rather interesting that even the "easiest" AVs are stoppers for us without IOs (thus far). I'm certain other ATs can solo AVs with only SOs
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If by 'interesting' you mean sad and thematically wrong, then yeah. If other at's can solo av's without IO's, you would think the at that was supposed to be the best soloing at should be able to do it.
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Isn't Battle Maiden weak to lethal? I remember reading that somewhere. Almost all her attacks have a -def component though. It still might be worth a try.
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This will help you out with those type of questions.
To answer your question though. Battle Maiden is in fact 30% resistant to lethal.
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That's what I get for thinking I have a memory.