I have a mission called judgment (154775) I built with ten AV's on one map, and at the end an EB ambush.
I've been using it to test my own builds with different AV powers and combinations... With no purple triangles, It's not quite as tough as AV's in the various TF's, but they are pretty fun to take on with a full team at high level. I did not make this easy.
Right now, its got over a hundred rates and has a 4 star average.
If you solo it. and send me a tell. I will put your name on the souvenir.
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He might be able to cascade his defenses but I don't think Manti would put out enough damage to kill him.
Only one way to find out!
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OK, Werner now has a shiny new even-level SO build to try AVs with, no temps, no inspirations, no veteran powers, blah blah blah. First up was Manticore of course. First try was a failure. It took him about 45 minutes, but Manticore DID indeed eventually put out enough damage to kill me, and there were several close calls before then. Cascading defense failure was a problem, but not a serious one from a damage perspective, more from a recharge debuff perspective. He'd debuff my defense then keep hitting me with slows, which meant my damage output would drop significantly. Since it was already only barely enough to hurt him, he'd start healing. I think I had him down to 70% at one point, but his health would go up and down. Pretty frustrating.
So... looks possible, but looks like it will take more patience than I have tonight.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Isn't Battle Maiden weak to lethal? I remember reading that somewhere. Almost all her attacks have a -def component though. It still might be worth a try.
Edit: I'm an idiot.
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Isn't Battle Maiden weak to lethal? I remember reading that somewhere. Almost all her attacks have a -def component though. It still might be worth a try.
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This will help you out with those type of questions. 
To answer your question though. Battle Maiden is in fact 30% resistant to lethal.
It's tempting for me to think of soloing AV's as easy and expect anyone to be able to do it. But then I stop and think about what all it really takes to get there.
1. You have to believe it's possible.
2. You have to understand attack chains. Maybe not to the extent that some of us understand them, but you need to be able to calculate the recharge in your attacks, or find someone to do it for you.
3. You have to understand IOs. This isn't terribly complicated, but if you try to explain them to a new player, you realize that it's not terribly simple either.
4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
8. You need to know how to make money on the market.
(7 and 8 are probably the biggest stoppers for the average person... at my play rate starting from 0 that takes 4-5 months dedicated to 1 toon to get from 0 to 50 with cash to purple him out).
9. You have to have the patience to fight 1 battle for at least 5 minutes... 12-15 minutes is common, and 45 minutes is not unheard of... (and Werner actually took a few hours on one.. which is probably grounds for being institutionalized).
It's not uncommon for me to spend more time outside of the game working on builds and attack chains and plans on a given week then I spend actually playing the game. I'd imagine a lot of AV solo'ers have weeks like that as well. That's probably not very appealing to most people.
All that said, I do think the general population now is getting past step 1. I rarely run into people who tell me they think it's impossible to solo an AV... it's much more common for people to say "Hey... you're Shred Monkey!"
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Question for the numbers gurus, what are the differences in scalars between AVs and EBs?
I've been tempted to make some EB based challenges for my scrapper in the MA, but I'm curious how they compare offensively to AVs beyond my own unqualified observations.
Infatum on Virtueverse
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3. You have to understand IOs. This isn't terribly complicated, but if you try to explain them to a new player, you realize that it's not terribly simple either.
4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
8. You need to know how to make money on the market.
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While these stipulations may apply to soloing AVs with scrappers, brutes, blasters, defenders, etc., it's actually possible for some masterminds and controllers to solo AVs without temps or inspirations at intermediate levels (ie, in the 30s and possibly earlier) with just SO builds.
I know this because I was soloing AVs on my Thugs/Dark mastermind and Ill/Rad controller before inventions existed.
So, depending on the AT and build, those requisites aren't necessarily barriers to entry.
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Is Nightstar an easy AV to solo?
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Nightstar
Depends on the Attack.
Fire yes.
DM it gets hard with 30% Resistance
S/L really hard with 50% Resistance
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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It's tempting for me to think of soloing AV's as easy and expect anyone to be able to do it. But then I stop and think about what all it really takes to get there.
1. You have to believe it's possible.
2. You have to understand attack chains. Maybe not to the extent that some of us understand them, but you need to be able to calculate the recharge in your attacks, or find someone to do it for you.
3. You have to understand IOs. This isn't terribly complicated, but if you try to explain them to a new player, you realize that it's not terribly simple either.
4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
8. You need to know how to make money on the market.
(7 and 8 are probably the biggest stoppers for the average person... at my play rate starting from 0 that takes 4-5 months dedicated to 1 toon to get from 0 to 50 with cash to purple him out).
9. You have to have the patience to fight 1 battle for at least 5 minutes... 12-15 minutes is common, and 45 minutes is not unheard of... (and Werner actually took a few hours on one.. which is probably grounds for being institutionalized).
It's not uncommon for me to spend more time outside of the game working on builds and attack chains and plans on a given week then I spend actually playing the game. I'd imagine a lot of AV solo'ers have weeks like that as well. That's probably not very appealing to most people.
All that said, I do think the general population now is getting past step 1. I rarely run into people who tell me they think it's impossible to solo an AV... it's much more common for people to say "Hey... you're Shred Monkey!"
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I agree with you completely on just about everything.
The outside game time investment and market investment are probably the biggest obstacles at this point for most players. Getting to 50 is a lot smoother and faster than it ever was in my memory of the game, although people will still catch waves of altitis. I am just now getting the people I play with consistently into Mids, and they are actually having fun designing different power concepts and playing those builds more to maturity. Introducing them to IOs using Mids actually was easier for me then doing it in the game because you could see the different sets, then see the bonuses for that set and how they stacked up just by clicking on a few tabs.
The Market, however... I am at a loss there, and the advice given in that section of the forums almost looks as if they are speaking in several foreign languages (this is from someone who is a huge fan of Arcanaville). That is also when they are not at each other's throats.
Then there is the whole patience bit with the market, which could turn of some people if it starts taking longer than they expect to see some decent returns on their efforts. While there may be not much of a barrier to learning to frankenslot and doing it pretty cheaply, getting the market-savvy and inf (provided what you want is even on there unless you feel like grinding for merits) for some of the sets you would want for AV soloing is difficult at best.
What I think a lot of the forumites forget sometimes is that we probably represent 10% of the total player population (which may be a stretch), and that even though some of the posters hate each other, the group as a whole is probably in front of the bell curve as far as in-game experience and skill. If not way out in front.
Also, there will be a lot of people know never get that far, but like it was said before, but will get their toons to the point where they feel like they can do anything in the game except AV-solo, and will tend to be happy with that. That is usually where I try to get my builds to, and maybe hold my own against an AV while the team gets back on its feet.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
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When I started soloing AVs (without insps, mind you... saying it before anyone else flips out), none of these statements were true about me.
I believe it's possible to do without 2., 3. and 9. too, if you're willing to use inspirations and temp powers.
So, basically, I agree with "you have to believe it's possible" ; and I have to thank Werner and you for that. 
If you can play at difficulty Level 5, you should be able to solo an AV.
I have a blaster at difficultly level 5.
That hasn't been my experience. Invincible (without AVs) is WAY easier than AVs in my experience.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
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When I started soloing AVs (without insps, mind you... saying it before anyone else flips out), none of these statements were true about me.
I believe it's possible to do without 2., 3. and 9. too, if you're willing to use inspirations and temp powers.
So, basically, I agree with "you have to believe it's possible" ; and I have to thank Werner and you for that.
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"You have to believe its possible" is really the only mandatory requirement: the others are just helpful. In fact, when I soloed my first AV (like back in I1 I think) I didn't even know *that*. I was just willing to try. Over and over again. So perhaps "you have to be willing to make the attempt as many times as it takes" is really the only actual requirement (I once took 30+ attempts to solo the Envoy of Shadows as a +2 AV with my level 37 Ill/Rad).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I believe DM/Regen could do it. I might try to make an all-SO build in build slot 2 just to try it. I know way back in the day my DM/Regen soloed Maestro as an AV, although it took forever, and that was back in 2006 long before inventions (but also before AVs were made more resistant to tohit debuffs I believe). Not the toughest AV in the world, but I think the most important point is that over a very long fight I managed to not run out of endurance, which is one of the sticking points for scrappers with enough damage in theory.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
a 50 bs/ regen slotted towards his lvl (aka: 33 for powers from 1 to 30, and so forth, outfitted with HO's) with aditional purp sets can beat any lvl 1/35 avs.
as for the MJ arc, i believe one would need inspis.
I dont recall beating av's, besides infernal an a couple more outta 15 outta mj arc,
with a single /regen scrap without inspis.
maybe an ice/ tank would beat them all. dunno.
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See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I believe DM/Regen could do it. I might try to make an all-SO build in build slot 2 just to try it. I know way back in the day my DM/Regen soloed Maestro as an AV, although it took forever, and that was back in 2006 long before inventions (but also before AVs were made more resistant to tohit debuffs I believe). Not the toughest AV in the world, but I think the most important point is that over a very long fight I managed to not run out of endurance, which is one of the sticking points for scrappers with enough damage in theory.
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Hear that, Umbral? Now you GOTTA solo an AV using only SOs!
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I would agree with most of Shred_Monkey's list. The time commitment to making an AV-soloing build is much more than just playing a good scrapper, or any AT for that matter, effectively and efficiently. Soloing an AV now is also probably much harder than it once was in the past, and requires more than just a pre-nerf FOTM DM/Regen build.
The forum regulars is a small percentage of the actual player base, and the "visible" regulars is probably even smaller than that. Those who can solo AVs is even a smaller number than that, making AV soloing not as common as this board would make it seem.
I know for me personally, it took me forever just to get my first character to level 50, and then it took me a few years to perfect that build so I can get it to pass the RWZ Challenge. I only got one other 50 toon but it isn't even fully IO'ed yet, not for lack of trying. And I got a few other toons building up or stuck in limbo, all vying for attention when I do decide to login (which is common, but devoted to social gameplay in addition to just soloing). My top toon is a MA/Regen since Issue 1, which I know is not really viable for AV-soloing, so the next best option is to make a new toon and maybe hope that maybe in a year or two from now, that it might be ready to solo an AV.
With the exception of grinding for influence, merits, or other building materials for builds, making a AV-soloing build is a pretty solitary endeavor, both in the game and out of it. Considering the time to invest into the game, I find it's more enjoyable to team up rather than not. And I would rather do something fun than not. I applaud those who are able solo AVs, but at least for scrappers, the time investment is prohibitive for many players.
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4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
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When I started soloing AVs (without insps, mind you... saying it before anyone else flips out), none of these statements were true about me.
I believe it's possible to do without 2., 3. and 9. too, if you're willing to use inspirations and temp powers.
So, basically, I agree with "you have to believe it's possible" ; and I have to thank Werner and you for that.
[/ QUOTE ]
"You have to believe its possible" is really the only mandatory requirement: the others are just helpful. In fact, when I soloed my first AV (like back in I1 I think) I didn't even know *that*. I was just willing to try. Over and over again. So perhaps "you have to be willing to make the attempt as many times as it takes" is really the only actual requirement (I once took 30+ attempts to solo the Envoy of Shadows as a +2 AV with my level 37 Ill/Rad).
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I hve to agree with you here. Back in I4 when I started I got to the Doc Vahz mission, and didn't understand what an AV was. My entire attack chain was the super gimped Swipe and Strike (original animations). And yet, I almost beat him. The only thing stopping me was that practiced brawler wasn't perma yet. It would wear off, I'd get stunned, then without my defenses he'd rip me a new one. At the time I was 3 slotting my defenses because I'd read on the forums SR got to the point of being unkillable and I wanted a challenge.
It's been ten issues since then. The base values for SR got halved, and the maximum amount we can enhance to got halved. I look at how much defense I have now with 3 slotted defenses and no IO sets, and I'm amazed at how powerful I would have been even with my 'gimped' build. I would have been at the soft cap with just 3 slotting for pete's sake!
I do want to try my hand at AV soloing, but first I'd need to actually IO my build up. I'd want to have 45 defense pre-elude. Right now my limiter is that after 3 minutes of flooring the AV's chance to hit... I run out of endurance and thus have barely any defense.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
I soloed Doc. Vaz. as an even lvl AV with my fire blaster 
Oops wrong forum
I soloed Dr Vahz w/my En/En blaster back in i0. 'Course, I was +2 to him...
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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4. You need to use a hero designer, and use it well... mid's is the obvious choice.
5. You need to know what to build for (generally, defense and recharge).
6. You know to know how to achieve high levels of those things in your build.
7. You need to play your toon up to level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
When I started soloing AVs (without insps, mind you... saying it before anyone else flips out), none of these statements were true about me.
I believe it's possible to do without 2., 3. and 9. too, if you're willing to use inspirations and temp powers.
So, basically, I agree with "you have to believe it's possible" ; and I have to thank Werner and you for that.
[/ QUOTE ]
"You have to believe its possible" is really the only mandatory requirement: the others are just helpful. In fact, when I soloed my first AV (like back in I1 I think) I didn't even know *that*. I was just willing to try. Over and over again. So perhaps "you have to be willing to make the attempt as many times as it takes" is really the only actual requirement (I once took 30+ attempts to solo the Envoy of Shadows as a +2 AV with my level 37 Ill/Rad).
[/ QUOTE ]
I hve to agree with you here. Back in I4 when I started I got to the Doc Vahz mission, and didn't understand what an AV was. My entire attack chain was the super gimped Swipe and Strike (original animations). And yet, I almost beat him. The only thing stopping me was that practiced brawler wasn't perma yet. It would wear off, I'd get stunned, then without my defenses he'd rip me a new one. At the time I was 3 slotting my defenses because I'd read on the forums SR got to the point of being unkillable and I wanted a challenge.
It's been ten issues since then. The base values for SR got halved, and the maximum amount we can enhance to got halved. I look at how much defense I have now with 3 slotted defenses and no IO sets, and I'm amazed at how powerful I would have been even with my 'gimped' build. I would have been at the soft cap with just 3 slotting for pete's sake!
I do want to try my hand at AV soloing, but first I'd need to actually IO my build up. I'd want to have 45 defense pre-elude. Right now my limiter is that after 3 minutes of flooring the AV's chance to hit... I run out of endurance and thus have barely any defense.
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back then 45% you still sucked I was running somewhere in the neighborhood of 125% with perma elude. The 45% mark did not come in until I5 with the global reduction
Then of course back then hasten gave you 5% defense ontop of the recharge
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
/SR has actually been through quite a few changes.
Issue 0 it was at passives: 5%((11% enhanced) toggles: 10%(22% enhanced). Yes, really, this is what Gecko thought was balanced compared to toggle instant healing.
sometime down the line, they go up to 10% and 20% respectively. I-5 was the global defense nerf which brought them to what they are now, which is close to what they used to be(go figure), and I-6 was ED. The magic 45 was not in effect until I-7, and it was a rough 2 issues for some defense characters.
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He might be able to cascade his defenses but I don't think Manti would put out enough damage to kill him.
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