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Ah, so if someone's reply to the last poster doesn't make sense, it must mean he's talking to you specifically, because you're so important and all.
... No, I'm afraid it's just the Quick Reply feature. I guess you were too busy thinking of witty patronizing comebacks to learn about that.
Let's get the whole deal out of the way, since you seem to want to read any of my comments like it's about you :
First, you suggest you speak for the whole scrapper forum ("When the scrapper forum refers to AV soloing we tend to carry the underlying message of No Temps/Insps."), which is what I was answering to, then you claim you're only talking about shivans (jumping from "using any temp" to "omg shivans!!" is a big leap, a leap you'll notice I never made here), then you suggest I listen to my own advice (... I never gave any), and finally we're here with this patronizing tone which is rather out of place coming from someone who makes about as much sense as a monkey on crack.
Look, if my "made up rules are made up rules" comment have hurt your feelings, I'm sorry, but you're not really going to convince me of anything by replying with random unrelated things. You've only succeeded in making me mildly irritated - I'm the one who doesn't get it ? Stuff it, buddy. You haven't even understood the simple point I made, and you're assuming I'm talking to or about you when I'm not.
For the record, since you seem so focused on that, I don't care if you count shivans as "entities" or whatever fancy word lets you justify a twisted definition of AV soloing.
I still stand by my definition : one character fighting one archvillain = archvillain soloing.
... You'd think such a statement would be obvious. I can't believe I have to argue for it.
Last I checked, shivans aren't characters ; if they are, please let me know how to unlock the AT, it's not showing on my screen.
You might want to listen to that imaginary advice I supposedly gave according to you, whatever it is. Cherish it too, because I won't be wasting any more of my time losing brain cells reading your posts.
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So defensive over a few lines of text. Oh well, if you think I was attacking you then that's on you. Your use of the quick reply feature and not indicating who you were referring to isn't my fault.
*shrug*
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
<QR>
I've seen Tanks that have trouble surviving against an AV. Regularly.
I can't imagine that this permits AV soloing to be a feat even just 5% of the total population can/does pull off.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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i've seen videos of petless MM's soloing AV's, so it is possible
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Yeah I saw one solo Statesman in RV without pets even in the build
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Were they /Traps using the pre-nerf PGT behavior? If not, I'm really curious.
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yes it was
the fact that anyone would still consider what a petless mm could do before that nerf as applicable to this discussion today is just proof positive of how absurd the entire thing is, and some people are.
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One character against one archvillain = AV soloing.
Anyone is free to make up their own imaginary rules, but you shouldn't expect everyone to play that way.
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Oh ..didn't know that. Well guys, excuse me while I go get some fresh shivans, a warburg nuke, a full tray of tier 3 inspirations, and a pocket chuck norris. I'll be back tomorrow to brag about the AV I took down with my MA/DA scrapper.
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One character against one archvillain = AV soloing.
Anyone is free to make up their own imaginary rules, but you shouldn't expect everyone to play that way.
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Oh ..didn't know that. Well guys, excuse me while I go get some fresh shivans, a warburg nuke, a full tray of tier 3 inspirations, and a pocket chuck norris. I'll be back tomorrow to brag about the AV I took down with my MA/DA scrapper.
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Feel free, because if you do that, you did "solo an AV" in my book. I'm not sure how we're arguing anything else. Whether it was an accomplishment worth bragging about is a completely different story, but you did solo an AV.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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One character against one archvillain = AV soloing.
Anyone is free to make up their own imaginary rules, but you shouldn't expect everyone to play that way.
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Oh ..didn't know that. Well guys, excuse me while I go get some fresh shivans, a warburg nuke, a full tray of tier 3 inspirations, and a pocket chuck norris. I'll be back tomorrow to brag about the AV I took down with my MA/DA scrapper.
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Don't forget your Vanguard Heavy, Warwofl Whistle, Amy's Ward and Wedding Band
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So whenever anyone manages the task, using whatever means, say well done, and then ask whats their next challange going to be. Keep driving folks forward as a group, then and only then will we reach maximum potential.
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You, Sir, have an amazing sense of perspective, and rawk in general.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
To the OP:
There is a group at there to be aware of, especially on these forums: the folks who can solo AVs, (True definition be damned! Grow up already, will y'all?) but don't really want to. My build, for example, is durable enough, and puts out enough damage that I could, eventually, take down most AVs. It'd take a good twenty minutes minimum, though, and it'd be fairly dull otherwise, so I choose to measure my ePeen in different ways, but it's still possible.
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no such rules...
opinions...
opinions...
surely none of you guys are right or wrong...
do what works for you.
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Well said.
I say very little can and have
I have one scrapper that is built to solo an AV no inspirations at this point that is my fire/shield and I have a non standard build that most use I went without tough weave but I took at Marauder and Chimera. Shadow Hunter got me but I ran out of time that night and I have not cranked that up because I been doing team AE's with him because it is fun.
My dm/sr can solo with endurance inspiration I took Marauder out that way. His IO build is sitting there in a mediocre build with out a lot of high end money put in that build. I can but with him but I need more recharge and some +end just not my focus with him
My Katana/sr use to do it all the time way back int he day and I completed the scrapper challenge with him on a solid but unspectacular build. I soloed a lot of AV's back in the perma elude perma hasten 5 slotted damage type days with him different game back then. I started farming for his new IO build because he was my 1st 50 and one of my favorites.
My Ill Rad could but I am not that good one him and tend to screw up some how even though I am almost to perma PA I call it I prefer scrappers and play my troller like a scrapper which puts me in the bind some times and I rarely ever play him.
On to players to give you an example why most can not I was on an AE team and we where talking about builds for some reason and soling an AV came up and a guy says while ma/reg can not do it because they run out of endurance. i said man he could do it with no inspiration if built right I mean with qr + staminia you should not run out of endurance. Stamina does not help so I had to procedure to tell them that it does and that health stack with regen to make it better.
Then again the guy had all his katana attacks took all the regen stuff hasten and ss then jump kick 
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I've 'solo'd AVs' but not in a provable way.
With a DO'd out thugs/dark mastermind, fresh out of I7, I accidentally solo'd Silver Mantis. I say accidentally because I didn't realise she was an AV until she was dead. I was pretty inexperienced at the time, I just handed out candy to my boys and resummoned them when various boys died. That was the whole of it - I remembered it was bloody tedious too, but once I reached a point where twilight grasp hit consistantly and her attacks didn't, it was just a matter of waiting it out. I have no real idea on how long it took me.
Much more recently, with a night widow on an ITF, jumped and pulled Requiem, expecting to melee him before Romulus. By the time Req was half dead, I realised that I hadn't been buffed for some time, and that it was because the group were about a hundred yards away beating the face in of Romulus. They hadn't noticed me and I hadn't noticed them not noticing me.
That's pretty much the extent of it, though? And these two experiences are such aberrations I can't even remember the precis of it. What I can remember is that in both cases, it was long, tedious and in the end, nobody was impressed.
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To the OP:
There is a group at there to be aware of, especially on these forums: the folks who can solo AVs, (True definition be damned! Grow up already, will y'all?) but don't really want to. My build, for example, is durable enough, and puts out enough damage that I could, eventually, take down most AVs. It'd take a good twenty minutes minimum, though, and it'd be fairly dull otherwise, so I choose to measure my ePeen in different ways, but it's still possible.
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There's that too. On many builds, once you can survive them and have enough damage output, it's just a button-mashing exercise. The kind that might not appeal to that many people. It takes a certain kind of crazy to hit the same three keys over and over for 20 minutes. At least SOME builds are more interactive than that.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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On many builds, once you can survive them and have enough damage output, it's just a button-mashing exercise. The kind that might not appeal to that many people. It takes a certain kind of crazy to hit the same three keys over and over for 20 minutes. At least SOME builds are more interactive than that.
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This is where I'm at with my Night Widow. Whether I succeed or not at most AVs I tried really just comes down to how the RNG plays out. Do they hit me 2-3 times in quick succession? If no, I'm probably golden. If yes, I'm coming back from the Hospital to pretty much start over (depending on where the mish is at and how big the map is).
Basically, I knew I could eventually beat anything my effective DPS was reasonable against if I tried enough, because eventually I'd get the right streak of rolls in my favor. After I won a few times, that damped my enthusiasm for the whole thing, at least on such a build.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
It's about pushing the build out there, and getting as much potential from your Scrapper as you can.
The more temps/insps, the less bragging rights. So while I have no doubt that an MA/FA could do it, while only using brawl, a few TOs for powers, but a Truckload of temp/insps, it's not worth bragging about, and I wouldn't want to team alongside that build.
the "imaginary rules" aren't the point, it's about how strong and powerful your character can be.
And finding the kind of challenges that can push that and make it better
Idono. I'd be pretty impressed with soloing an AV using only brawl and TOs, even if you did bio nuke it from space and sick everything on it. Or can you pretty much sit back and do nothing and let temp powers do the job for you? I never use them, so I honestly don't know.
In a similar vein, among the many projects that I never seem to get to, I want a no temps, no inspirations, no IOs AV soloer. Not sure it's possible, but I think it would be a lot of fun to try. Basically, I want to see just how big the gap between IO builds and SO builds is. Is the gap almost entirely from the extra power of IOs, or is a lot of the gap a result of the best builders only making IO builds? I want to see what's possible with just SOs. 
Anyway, since I'm very slow getting around to things, if someone wants to beat me to it, have at it. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I've got a Fire/SR I'm working on currentl.
The idea is for it to be VERY cheap, ie mostly SOs, but still capable of AV soloing.
It's currently in the mid 30s and it's clear that the one thing it will need is a way to overcome Endurance issues, everything else (Damage/Survivability) will be easy.
Even with the Perfomance Shifter proc currently, it's an End Hog.
See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
Oh, and yeah, I actually would be impressed if they only used Brawl & TOs, but more in a "crazy back alley Freakshow kind" of way, and less a "it'd be a honor to team with them" kind of way
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Idono. I'd be pretty impressed with soloing an AV using only brawl and TOs, even if you did bio nuke it from space and sick everything on it. Or can you pretty much sit back and do nothing and let temp powers do the job for you?
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Yes, you can solo an AV with temp powers only. Nothing from your primary, secondary, or pools.
It goes like this: summon Shivan, HVAS, Longbow Mech, Warwolf, Amy, Clockwork Gears, etc. (Vills get different pets but they're as effective). Drop Biological Mutagens on your little army. Drop Chemical Burn on the AV. Hit Hyper Phase.
The AV will be butchered in seconds.
So, obviously it's possible for any build from any AT, however poorly specced, to solo an AV. It might be more impressive without temps or inspirations, depending on the AV (and on how easily impressed you are).
Prior to inventions in i9, I had a mastermind and a controller who could (and did) beat AVs with no temps/insps. With IOs, I've added a blaster, scrapper, brute and corruptor to the list.
And although I continue to build toon after toon with AV soloing in mind, it's only to solve the problem: "How do I set to the highest difficulty, and then go wherever I please and do what I please, whenever I choose, with or without teammates, and stand a reasonable chance of succeeding without having to make a lot of preparations?"
Generally speaking, if you're prepared to take down AVs without temps or insps, you can beat most missions the game will ever throw at you, including most (but not all) AE missions.
Nevertheless, I see no reason to brag about soloing AVs and have said so in this forum, to the ire of regulars and my ostracision. I've observed also that this forum is pretty obsessed with soloing AVs, which is fine, boss killing being the specialty of scrappers and AV killing being a logical extension of that.
But I've been over it for a long time. And being over it, I recognize that there are other, equally impressive ways to build.
I'm not sure, in the end, how many players can solo AVs and choose to do it for its own sake. I'm certain it's more than apparent in the forum community, but probably still less than 1% of the playerbase.
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See, For me, what makes AV soloing worth bragging about is the fact you've achieved enough Damage output, enough Survivability AND enough End Recovery.
Miss any one of those three and it's not possible. (without insps at least)
So coming full circle, I just don't think an SO build could pull off all three, but it could come close, very close.
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I think I've been trying it with the wrong character. I've been trying to work up an SO build for Sergei. I should probably be working up an SO build for Werner. Basically, only go up against lethal AVs, and soft cap using Divine Avalanche and some pool powers. The regeneration secondary should then handle the rest of the survivability plus the endurance recovery. I don't expect to kill nearly as many. I just want to kill a few. I bet Manticore goes down pretty easy. Hmmm.
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Oh, and yeah, I actually would be impressed if they only used Brawl & TOs, but more in a "crazy back alley Freakshow kind" of way, and less a "it'd be a honor to team with them" kind of way
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Totally.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'm working on building my Rad/Sonic toward AV/GM soloing whie simultaneously being as much of a cheapskate about it as possible. The only purple set he's getting is the sleep set because, well, it's cheaper than Posi's Blast and better than any other sleep set.
I'd like to build my baby MA/Shield into an AV capable character, but that's going to be expensive and it's not a priority.
My Sonic/Devices blaster is the closest to being able to do it currently, he has the endurance recovery and the damage output in spades, the only one of the crucial trio he lacks is survivability, which will be solved when I finish softcapping his ranged defense (I hope)
My wife built a DB/SR without Aid Self that I believe can solo a few AVs and she did it almost by accident. I already watched her pull off the RWZ Challenge on her first try. It's actually really funny, she prefers blasters and I prefer scrappers, yet her scrapper is better than any of mine (except arguably my main), and my blaster is better than any of hers (except arguably HER main). Go figure.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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And although I continue to build toon after toon with AV soloing in mind, it's only to solve the problem: "How do I set to the highest difficulty, and then go wherever I please and do what I please, whenever I choose, with or without teammates, and stand a reasonable chance of succeeding without having to make a lot of preparations?"
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This. I like being able to tackle 8-man invinc spawns on a "squishie" AT (or hell, even a scrapper) and win. Not that I don't like teaming, but if I get separated or there's an ambush or something goes wrong, I like knowing that I can take pretty much whatever the game can throw at me, even if my team happens to be dead or away.
BTW, many AV/GM solo fights do turn into a boring button-mashing fest, but to this day, my favorite fight ever in CoH was when I soloed Infernal in a 30-min marathon. It was never boring, not even for a second. When you're a sliver away from dying at all times, you don't have time to get bored. And it was never just a button mashing fest--there was a ton of maneuvering & tactics involved. This was of course before IOs, hell, even before ED.
Nowadays, fights have gotten a lot more predictable w/IOs where you don't have to think about things like terrain or tactics in general like we used to. It's just +def, +regen, calculate your DPS & end recovery, have a backup heal and done. I still think the planning & building part is fun, but the fight itself isn't nearly as exciting as it used to be.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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I've been trying to work up an SO build for Sergei. I should probably be working up an SO build for Werner. Basically, only go up against lethal AVs, and soft cap using Divine Avalanche and some pool powers. The regeneration secondary should then handle the rest of the survivability plus the endurance recovery. I don't expect to kill nearly as many. I just want to kill a few. I bet Manticore goes down pretty easy. Hmmm.
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Manticore's Acid Arrow might cascade you. I don't think it does a speck of lethal damage. Might still be worth a shot though. GL.
He might be able to cascade his defenses but I don't think Manti would put out enough damage to kill him.
Only one way to find out!
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
I soloed an AV in one of the RWZ missions on my katana/fire scrapper with pretty minimal set bonuses (like 15% or 20% recharge really only thing worth mentioning.....and that's probably not worth mentioning lol). I doubt that I could solo another one though unless pretty much identical to him (w/e the big rikti is). I'm 1 for 1 in my AV killing attempts and that's good enough for me. Considering a lot of EBs can kill or come close to killing me, I'd hate to lower my record. 
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Whether it was an accomplishment worth bragging about is a completely different story
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I thought that was obviously the point. Well here's my clarification people: this is the point.
Like i said its just me...