That was the stated reason given mate. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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That was the stated reason given mate.
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Thanks for the confirmation, D_K - I thought for a second that I was on crazy pills.
Also, I just looked up "token economy" because I'd never heard the term before. I deny that I'm underestimating its importance - in fact, its importance is central to my argument.
If we allow that there are players who pursue token-accruing efficiency regardless of what form that pursuit must take, and we further allow that some forms of behavior are more tedious, repetitive, and unfulfilling in themselves than others, then it would seem inescapable that there must be a system that encourages less tedious behavior by attaching a greater token-accruing rate to that behavior. That is what I (along with the devs, I think) am looking for: the greatest token rewards to the most interesting behavior.
Of course, the concept of interesting behavior is subjective - but I think we can agree that grinding Freaks on a cargo ship map over and over and over isn't it. I think we can agree that that kind of behavior is not the kind of behavior that the token economy of a good game will foster.
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That was the stated reason given mate.
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Can you cite your source?
I've recently returned to the game.
Also, I understand where you're coming from Bureaucrat. I adore Derrida -- but only when I don't have to read his original work.
See here's some snow, lets say it's the devs, and here's a banana, that's the players. This battery is Stats. This stack of papers is the powerlevelers and this door knob is the farmers. Now put it all in a blender, walk your dog, and kill your tv.
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... but I think we can agree that grinding Freaks on a cargo ship map over and over and over isn't it. I think we can agree that that kind of behavior is not the kind of behavior that the token economy of a good game will foster.
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We most certainly cannot and I believe you should take a closer look at the idea behind a token economy and give this problem a bit of thought. As it stands now I feel like you're misunderstanding what it is and how it relates to MMOs.
If MMOs are based upon a token economy (and it isn't difficult to find people who would disagree with that assertion) then they are incredibly complex ones. I don't believe that a cursory look at wikipedia (I assume) is enough for you to rebut my argument.
I apologize sincerely if these statements come across as offensive or arrogant; that is most certainly not my intent. Rather, I think that you are quite intelligent and would very much like to hear what you have to say about this after you've given it some more time and thought.
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Pretty much, they put up a sign in their produce market stating that although sampling is tolerated those that gorge themselves on the produce will be prosecuted as shoplifters.
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It's more in line with going to an all you can eat buffet, and being told you can eat as much as you want, but if you eat to much, you'll get thrown out.
Everyone here is paying for what they are getting.
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So close!
If you changed 'all you can eat buffet' to 'American Bar', I think we could see eye to eye.
You see, in American bars, they throw you out if you drink too much, even if you are paying for what you are getting. And 'too much' is not defined in terms of blood alcohol level or anything but the bartender's judgement.
In any case, I would also like the Devs to define what they consider an exploit is in more quantifiable terms, but in the meantime I feel I can play just fine and just as I always have without worrying about it.
Besides, gamebreakingly fast speed doesn't need to be an exploit to get nerfed. It has to be nerfed whether it is an exploit or not, by definition.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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It happened with the PvPers and now, some of the farmers. If you're willing to act arrogant, rude and try to 'intimidate' the Devs... expect it to happen in kind.
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And if they ever decide to stick a knife in what you enjoy about the game it will happen with you
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Sure, I'd move on but I'm not going to turn that exodus into 'look-at-me-i'm-reallllly-angry-i'm-gonna-quit' tirade all over the boards.
I don't mind arguing a point every once in awhile, but I'm not cut out to act like a drama queen.
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Darth was wrong this is the real comedy gem.
Someone feels the need to go about bashing how other people play and then says they "I'm not cut out to act like a drama queen."
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That's a very illiterate sense of humor... where, in this post, am I bashing anyone for how they play? Where do I even mention a specific playstyle in context of any kind of praise or critique?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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If you changed 'all you can eat buffet' to 'American Bar'
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Meh ... I'm inclined to agree with you after Posi's latest posts on this subject.
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I would also like the Devs to define what they consider an exploit is in more quantifiable terms, but in the meantime I feel I can play just fine and just as I always have without worrying about it.
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Same, but I doubt it will happen. I also doubt they will penalize casual players for using obvious game functions, So I'm not overly worried about it either.
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gamebreakingly fast speed doesn't need to be an exploit to get nerfed. It has to be nerfed whether it is an exploit or not, by definition.
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Also agree with this. I can't stand people who blame people who farm rewards for nerfs.
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Its been about a week since the "nerf" and since that time, once again servers are back to normal population. Before...I had fun and it was fun to see all the players jumping online.
What kind of vibe is the community getting since the nerf ingame?
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its worse and worse, just type a map to search dudes on your search engine ingame, and if you 're more that a 12 months vet, you will get me straight.
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We will have to agree to disagree here. I think the comm officers were a massive exploit in that they were not being used as intended and gave at specific levels extreme amounts of xp far and above anything else possible in the game. People knew this and exploited the heck out of it, I can't personally see how it isn't an exploit despite how long it took the devs to deal with it and despite how public it was.
To keep with the analogy its kind of like the last forest ranger that used it forgot to put the gate back the last time they used it and they didn't get around to either fixing the gate or closing it for a few weeks.
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The devs knew when they put them in MA that Comm officers gave more XP than normal, and still they moved foward. They knew it when they did their own internal testing, and still they moved foward. They were told in closed and in open beta that it would be exploited, and still they moved foward. As far as I'm concerned, and I guarantee I'm not alone in this, if it can go through such extensive testing with full knowledge of the potential exploit and still go live, then it must be working as intended.
To use your analogy, the forest ranger forgot to close the gate despite the fact that he was told repeatedly over several weeks that the gate was open and that he needed to get his [censored] over there and close it. He's got nobdy to blame but himself if the bears got out and raided everybodies picknick baskets.
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We will have to agree to disagree here. I think the comm officers were a massive exploit in that they were not being used as intended and gave at specific levels extreme amounts of xp far and above anything else possible in the game. People knew this and exploited the heck out of it, I can't personally see how it isn't an exploit despite how long it took the devs to deal with it and despite how public it was.
To keep with the analogy its kind of like the last forest ranger that used it forgot to put the gate back the last time they used it and they didn't get around to either fixing the gate or closing it for a few weeks.
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The devs knew when they put them in MA that Comm officers gave more XP than normal, and still they moved foward. They knew it when they did their own internal testing, and still they moved foward. They were told in closed and in open beta that it would be exploited, and still they moved foward. As far as I'm concerned, and I guarantee I'm not alone in this, if it can go through such extensive testing with full knowledge of the potential exploit and still go live, then it must be working as intended.
To use your analogy, the forest ranger forgot to close the gate despite the fact that he was told repeatedly over several weeks that the gate was open and that he needed to get his [censored] over there and close it. He's got nobdy to blame but himself if the bears got out and raided everybodies picknick baskets.
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its pretty fun to see ppl arguin this over and over... the funniest is me receiving a warn because i dared speak about other MA abuses....
Whatava, they upped the risk/reward ratio, and i dont feel any change... why? because i never did bosses farms spamming the whole contry with 'need dps' or 'need healers'
I farm. my risk is high... all i did while other where exploiting, was to be better towards my created npcs.
FYI, all blasters, fire/ice, includind bosses, and i cant take one on follow/sk, cause he would die in a 50 yard range.
Now, i ear here and there ppl talkin about 'peculiar farms'.
adress this before it turns into another nerf.
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We will have to agree to disagree here. I think the comm officers were a massive exploit in that they were not being used as intended and gave at specific levels extreme amounts of xp far and above anything else possible in the game. People knew this and exploited the heck out of it, I can't personally see how it isn't an exploit despite how long it took the devs to deal with it and despite how public it was.
To keep with the analogy its kind of like the last forest ranger that used it forgot to put the gate back the last time they used it and they didn't get around to either fixing the gate or closing it for a few weeks.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs knew when they put them in MA that Comm officers gave more XP than normal, and still they moved foward. They knew it when they did their own internal testing, and still they moved foward. They were told in closed and in open beta that it would be exploited, and still they moved foward. As far as I'm concerned, and I guarantee I'm not alone in this, if it can go through such extensive testing with full knowledge of the potential exploit and still go live, then it must be working as intended.
To use your analogy, the forest ranger forgot to close the gate despite the fact that he was told repeatedly over several weeks that the gate was open and that he needed to get his [censored] over there and close it. He's got nobdy to blame but himself if the bears got out and raided everybodies picknick baskets.
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You are not alone on this. If someone used a third party program to change the actual code in the game- THAT would be an exploit. To use things that naturally occur in the game with no manipulation required: WAI.
The heavy handed changes that were made , removal of the comm officers, ticket reward limits and the threats made make me ask... why did they do nothing when they already knew about it? why did everyone let posi make that post without at least attempting to do some sort of damage prevention/control?
this whole thing is a public relations disaster.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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We will have to agree to disagree here. I think the comm officers were a massive exploit in that they were not being used as intended and gave at specific levels extreme amounts of xp far and above anything else possible in the game. People knew this and exploited the heck out of it, I can't personally see how it isn't an exploit despite how long it took the devs to deal with it and despite how public it was.
To keep with the analogy its kind of like the last forest ranger that used it forgot to put the gate back the last time they used it and they didn't get around to either fixing the gate or closing it for a few weeks.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs knew when they put them in MA that Comm officers gave more XP than normal, and still they moved foward. They knew it when they did their own internal testing, and still they moved foward. They were told in closed and in open beta that it would be exploited, and still they moved foward. As far as I'm concerned, and I guarantee I'm not alone in this, if it can go through such extensive testing with full knowledge of the potential exploit and still go live, then it must be working as intended.
To use your analogy, the forest ranger forgot to close the gate despite the fact that he was told repeatedly over several weeks that the gate was open and that he needed to get his [censored] over there and close it. He's got nobdy to blame but himself if the bears got out and raided everybodies picknick baskets.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are not alone on this. If someone used a third party program to change the actual code in the game- THAT would be an exploit. To use things that naturally occur in the game with no manipulation required: WAI.
The heavy handed changes that were made , removal of the comm officers, ticket reward limits and the threats made make me ask... why did they do nothing when they already knew about it? why did everyone let posi make that post without at least attempting to do some sort of damage prevention/control?
this whole thing is a public relations disaster.
[/ QUOTE ]they actually dunno what they are doin(aka devs)
'Goin rogue' while MA is under suspiction,
naming mods from the populace to rule it while eating cheese in a fruitcase and sending the pic to the customers.... if this was GM, or Boing, well, actually, it is...
there goes the golden parachutes.
(gratz to my hommies from UBI, Airbus owns Boing, Renault owns nissan an kik butt into US car industry... and the cheese in the basket case prolly was french)
Too bad, i still pay for this game, im not playing far cry 2 atm, so behave.
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... but I think we can agree that grinding Freaks on a cargo ship map over and over and over isn't it. I think we can agree that that kind of behavior is not the kind of behavior that the token economy of a good game will foster.
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We most certainly cannot and I believe you should take a closer look at the idea behind a token economy and give this problem a bit of thought. As it stands now I feel like you're misunderstanding what it is and how it relates to MMOs.
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Well, my understanding so far of the term token economy would lead me to describe it as a fairly simple system of abstract rewards for desired behavior. Example: the devs don't want level 50s stomping Hellions in Atlas Park, so there is no abstract reward (xp) for doing so. Level 50s stomping Hellions, if it is done at all, will ONLY be done for the intrinsic, non-abstract rewards for doing so (the satisfaction of helping a lady get her purse back, the visceral thrill of watching a thug fly 500 feet, the cruel satisfaction of kill stealing from helpless lowbies) - but there are other activities elsewhere which will provide non-abstract rewards AND 'tokens' (xp, inf, etc.) This is the exact same kind of behavioral control instituted in the 'rotating TFs' ruleset ... you can repeat a TF all you want if you love fighting those specific enemies, but if you enjoy all the TFs equally, you will get better token rewards for rotation. Equal non-tangible rewards + superior token rewards = behavior control.
Good guess - wikipedia is where I got my basic info - a little more research seems to turn up more of the same. If this kind of thing is not what you're talking about, I hereby request a better source. Looking forward to it 
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I highly doubt that your argument explains why that particular nerf was put in place and I am dubious of the assertion that it even factored into the decision making process.
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Wait, what? The TF nerf? You don't think they capped the rewards for a particular TF in a particular amount of time to 'force' people to broaden their content pallette? Or are you talking about the MA nerf?
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Hardly. it was more that being given the same huge reward for a katie or eden as for a sewertrial or doc q was obviously broken.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
I will be straight forward, even if this remains for in your skull for about 2 mns: If you want to straigthen up the whole thing, its oviously simple:
remove the outdoor maps. no outdoor, no farm, no ranting.
over and done.
ho fyi; i am a farmer, i will have to play ....(ho nooooooo)
i bet you my 2 cents that rp e'ers will find something against my idea, witch is the far more practical AND FAST aplliable. Ok, u may have to use an indoor map for ur beloved overnite superarc.
well, this is the obvious.
But, in fact, what do YOU really want?
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AE is the sacred cow for the developers because their professional reputations are riding on it. It is the only thing of its kind in any MMO, and while it was in development I'm sure a lot of people were rightly skeptical that handing the keys to game content over to the playerbase is a lot like handing a monkey the keys to the company car.
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And based on the quality of most MA stories, we've gotten what you would expect giving the keys to a monkey -- a big wreck with steaming piles of feces all over it.
I know it's been said an infinite amount of monkeys typing randomly would eventually produce the works of Shakespere. Well most of the MA produced materials could be bettered by two blind monkeys typeing randomly for one hour on typewritters with torn ink tape and half the keys not working. Seriously. 
Even if 90% of the content in the MA were crap, that would be over 2000 arcs that are NOT crap.
2000 arcs is probably more content than you can consume on one character (at half an hour per arc).
See the arc review threads in this very forum to find arcs and authors you may like. And if that doesn't work, make your own.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Even if 90% of the content in the MA were crap, that would be over 2000 arcs that are NOT crap.
2000 arcs is probably more content than you can consume on one character (at half an hour per arc).
See the arc review threads in this very forum to find arcs and authors you may like. And if that doesn't work, make your own.
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The problem isnt just that about 98% is complete crap. Its that of the 2% or so that isnt just isnt crap 1.5% isn't much better and the interesting .5% keeps getting nerfed
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Even if 90% of the content in the MA were crap, that would be over 2000 arcs that are NOT crap.
2000 arcs is probably more content than you can consume on one character (at half an hour per arc).
See the arc review threads in this very forum to find arcs and authors you may like. And if that doesn't work, make your own.
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The problem isnt just that about 98% is complete crap. Its that of the 2% or so that isnt just isnt crap 1.5% isn't much better and the interesting .5% keeps getting nerfed
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Name me some arcs that were story based, interesting, and have now been nerfed. Go ahead. I double dog dare you.
does removal of the map i used make it nerfed? cuz then i can say yes mine is...8p
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
Mine was nerfed BIG TIME. The mobs weren't anything special, they were claw-regen Lt.'s. After the nerf, they gained focus-power which allowed them to drop lvl 50 tanks like they were punks. Killed my entire story arc. Not to mention the fact that even 'throwing knives' have sniper-range.
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Mine was nerfed BIG TIME. The mobs weren't anything special, they were claw-regen Lt.'s. After the nerf, they gained focus-power which allowed them to drop lvl 50 tanks like they were punks. Killed my entire story arc. Not to mention the fact that even 'throwing knives' have sniper-range.
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You can thank people like me for ruining your Arc.
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In all honesty your entire analogy got ejected before short term memory whilst I was reading it; it wasn't
particularly succinct.
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Fair enough, I majored in philosophy and currently doing a masters in public policy and administration. I fear that being succinct and to the point has been beaten out of me.