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I like the MA. I think it is fun making missions for it.
I think if people can get off their high-horse about their "rights" to abuse the system, the MA can become the truly great thing that can be.
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High Horse ??? You do understand what the phrase means don't you ??
High Horse: an attitude of arrogant superiority; \
You are the damn definition here.
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does not mean that that behavior is INTENDED. Comm Officers, for example, were STILL never intended to appear in a custom group with just them.
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Somebody had to put them into MA as their own group. Now you may argue that it should have been obvious what the developers wanted from them but I will say this code freeze or no, they could have put a post up on the message boards and said please don't do this and we won't be able to fix it for a week. They could have also changed the message of the day.
I have said this before I am not a mind reader. I find it really hard to gauge the wants and intents of people who I have never met and are tight lipped about them in their public statements.
[/ QUOTE ]But you are also not a moron. You are perfectly capable of using reason and judgment. In normal content, the normal behavior of comm officers is to summon portals. Nor do comm officers appear in large, exclusive groups in normal content.
So if you see a map full of them, and only one of them summons a portal, leaving the others very easy to eliminate, do you really think that's how they were intended to behave? That the Devs intended them to be used that way?
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But you are also not a moron. You are perfectly capable of using reason and judgment. In normal content, the normal behavior of comm officers is to summon portals. Nor do comm officers appear in large, exclusive groups in normal content.
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The game is full of things I just shake my head at.
<ul type="square"> [*]An email system that is only used by rmters. . [*]Summoned entities that are fantastically deadly but give no XP.[*]An invention system that has pretty much only has three setting settings, Junk, ehhh, and fantastic.[*]The removal of base salvage. (Yes they went to the trouble to take out a feature)[*]The Psi blast powerset on blasters[*]Sappers that can effectively one shot a hero but only give minion xp.[/list]
And it goes on. The above is just whats on the top of my head.
Did I think the comm officers were out of whack ? YES. Then again I think many things in the game are completely out of whack. Some of which the devs acknowledge as such others they don't seem to care about.
Code Freeze or not, they had the tools to say this should not be done.
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I like the MA. I think it is fun making missions for it.
I think if people can get off their high-horse about their "rights" to abuse the system, the MA can become the truly great thing that can be.
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High Horse ??? You do understand what the phrase means don't you ??
High Horse: an attitude of arrogant superiority; \
You are the damn definition here.
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basically he is saying that we should gleefully surrender our free will and our freedom to make our own choices for a game we pay money to play.
needless to say- what a lol.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
So what you're saying is: the game is not perfect. The devs are fallible. Rewards are not absolutely balanced.
Guess what, that's what they're saying too!
So they are sharing some of their responsibility with you. You have the power to cheese an imperfect system, or not cheese it.
If you choose to cheese it, and they find out, they may punish you.
If you can't figure out what is cheesing and what isn't - if you absolutely refuse to take any responsibility here - if you can't look at examples from the past and try to figure out what kinds of behavior are and are not acceptable - then, in short, too bad.
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Code Freeze or not, they had the tools to say this should not be done.
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This one, specific thing? Sure. Every possible exploit in the game? No.
You're not going to get a complete rulebook of dos and don'ts, not least because the devs themselves don't know them all yet.
Not to mention the fact that the devs themselves have a stated policy of not telling the playerbase about known but unfixed exploits, for what should be obvious reasons - but in case it's not obvious, I'll spell it out: because many players would then immediately start using those exploits, creating tons more police work for the devs and GMs. Again: the devs are not omniscient, nor omnipresent, nor infallible. They can't snap their fingers and send all the bad guys to jail in the blink of an eye. They have to limit the damage of exploits with finite resources. Broadcasting existing exploits would be really stupid.
Positron has stated the rules as explicitly as circumstances allow: don't cheese the system. Again, if you refuse to accept that as not specific enough, too bad. Quit the game, or keep playing and live in TERROR.
Or you can do what reasonable people do, take a little responsibility, and play the game without looking for loopholes. Do that, and you'll be fine. I promise.
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But you are also not a moron. You are perfectly capable of using reason and judgment. In normal content, the normal behavior of comm officers is to summon portals. Nor do comm officers appear in large, exclusive groups in normal content.
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The game is full of things I just shake my head at.
<ul type="square"> [*]An email system that is only used by rmters. . [*]Summoned entities that are fantastically deadly but give no XP.[*]An invention system that has pretty much only has three setting settings, Junk, ehhh, and fantastic.[*]The removal of base salvage. (Yes they went to the trouble to take out a feature)[*]The Psi blast powerset on blasters[*]Sappers that can effectively one shot a hero but only give minion xp.[/list]
And it goes on. The above is just whats on the top of my head.
Did I think the comm officers were out of whack ? YES. Then again I think many things in the game are completely out of whack. Some of which the devs acknowledge as such others they don't seem to care about.
Code Freeze or not, they had the tools to say this should not be done.
[/ QUOTE ]You acknowledge that the comm officers were "out of whack". Which implies you understand that using them the way they were being used was also "out of whack". And, you are not brand new to the game, so you also know that taking advantage of something that is "out of whack" "should not be done".
Why do they have to tell you again what you already know?
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If you can't figure out what is cheesing and what isn't - if you absolutely refuse to take any responsibility here - if you can't look at examples from the past and try to figure out what kinds of behavior are and are not acceptable - then, in short, too bad.
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That is just idiocy. I play this game to escape from responsibility not take on more.
Whats more even in real life I don't spend all day second guessing weather my actions are within the intent of the law. If I see a sign that says don't walk on the grass, I don't walk on the grass. If there isn't a sign, I may or may not, but its not my problem then.
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That is just idiocy. I play this game to escape from responsibility not take on more.
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Cool. If you can't accept a reasonable amount of responsibility for your own actions, you have two options. Quit the game or play in terror. The devs aren't going to go over it pixel by pixel with you. Deal.
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You acknowledge that the comm officers were "out of whack". Which implies you understand that using them the way they were being used was also "out of whack". And, you are not brand new to the game, so you also know that taking advantage of something that is "out of whack" "should not be done".
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No there are all kinds of things I consider out of whack that the devs may or may not. It can be little things like using the Ouro to get to cimerora or it can be larger things. I don't make the call on whats legit or not. They do. You can say I should have endlessly but the fact is there is no way I could have.
As I said above I play this as a game to relax. I don't see myself as deputy dev. While I will certainly abide by rules and even the requests of the developers they actually need to make them. Asking me to guess and threatening me if I guess wrong is really not a relaxing scene for me.
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As I said above I play this as a game to relax. I don't see myself as deputy dev. While I will certainly abide by rules and even the requests of the developers they actually need to make them. Asking me to guess and threatening me if I guess wrong is really not a relaxing scene for me.
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So your expectation is that they make a list of every possible behavior, and combination of behaviors, in the game, and every bug in the game, and every bug that may exist in the future, and color code them all for you? Highlighting the ones that are live right now that will break the game so exploiters can easily find them? Can you really not understand why that's not reasonable?
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As I said above I play this as a game to relax. I don't see myself as deputy dev. While I will certainly abide by rules and even the requests of the developers they actually need to make them. Asking me to guess and threatening me if I guess wrong is really not a relaxing scene for me.
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So your expectation is that they make a list of every possible behavior, and combination of behaviors, in the game, and every bug in the game, and every bug that may exist in the future, and color code them all for you? Highlighting the ones that are live right now that will break the game so exploiters can easily find them? Can you really not understand why that's not reasonable?
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On the upside the people breaking the game would get banned, and the anti-farm crowd could crow about it endlessly on the forums bout how theyve "won" and then we can all(sane farmers and sane roleplayers) sit back, sip some cocoa and watch the fallout when a week later nobody is still playing their worthless mary sue riddled trainwreck of an arc.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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You acknowledge that the comm officers were "out of whack". Which implies you understand that using them the way they were being used was also "out of whack". And, you are not brand new to the game, so you also know that taking advantage of something that is "out of whack" "should not be done".
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No there are all kinds of things I consider out of whack that the devs may or may not. It can be little things like using the Ouro to get to cimerora or it can be larger things. I don't make the call on whats legit or not. They do. You can say I should have endlessly but the fact is there is no way I could have.
As I said above I play this as a game to relax. I don't see myself as deputy dev. While I will certainly abide by rules and even the requests of the developers they actually need to make them. Asking me to guess and threatening me if I guess wrong is really not a relaxing scene for me.
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"While I will certainly abide by [the] rules . . . ."
You recognized that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner. (That they were "out of whack.")
You have been playing the game long enough to know that stacking a map with them to maximize that unintended behavior would be considered an exploit.
You have been playing the game long enough to know that using exploits is against the rules, and has been since before even this particular exploit.
So how does the Devs not specifically TELLING you not to use this exploit excuse you from following the rules you already knew?
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If you can't figure out what is cheesing and what isn't - if you absolutely refuse to take any responsibility here - if you can't look at examples from the past and try to figure out what kinds of behavior are and are not acceptable - then, in short, too bad.
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That is just idiocy. I play this game to escape from responsibility not take on more.
Whats more even in real life I don't spend all day second guessing weather my actions are within the intent of the law. If I see a sign that says don't walk on the grass, I don't walk on the grass. If there isn't a sign, I may or may not, but its not my problem then.
[/ QUOTE ]If a store doesn't have a sign saying "No Shoplifting", is it then okay to shoplift in that store?
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If you can't figure out what is cheesing and what isn't - if you absolutely refuse to take any responsibility here - if you can't look at examples from the past and try to figure out what kinds of behavior are and are not acceptable - then, in short, too bad.
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That is just idiocy. I play this game to escape from responsibility not take on more.
Whats more even in real life I don't spend all day second guessing weather my actions are within the intent of the law. If I see a sign that says don't walk on the grass, I don't walk on the grass. If there isn't a sign, I may or may not, but its not my problem then.
[/ QUOTE ]If a store doesn't have a sign saying "No Shoplifting", is it then okay to shoplift in that store?
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LOL and it hasn't been defined as being illegal elsewhere ?
If you want that analogy its more like the store had a free sample section and put the wrong items in it.
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If you can't figure out what is cheesing and what isn't - if you absolutely refuse to take any responsibility here - if you can't look at examples from the past and try to figure out what kinds of behavior are and are not acceptable - then, in short, too bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is just idiocy. I play this game to escape from responsibility not take on more.
Whats more even in real life I don't spend all day second guessing weather my actions are within the intent of the law. If I see a sign that says don't walk on the grass, I don't walk on the grass. If there isn't a sign, I may or may not, but its not my problem then.
[/ QUOTE ]If a store doesn't have a sign saying "No Shoplifting", is it then okay to shoplift in that store?
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LOL and it hasn't been defined as being illegal elsewhere ?
If you want that analogy its more like the store had a free sample section and put the wrong items in it.
[/ QUOTE ]See the post just above the one you responded to.
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You recognized that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner. (That they were "out of whack.")
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What I said was I thought they were out of whack. That is my opinion. I think many things are out of whack in the game, see long list.
If I didn't do any of them I wouldn't play the game.
There is the height of positron's stupidity on this topic, He threatened to ban people so they wouldn't get burned out.
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You recognized that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner. (That they were "out of whack.")
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What I said was I thought they were out of whack. That is my opinion. I think many things are out of whack in the game, see long list.
If I didn't do any of them I wouldn't play the game.
There is the height of positron's stupidity on this topic, He threatened to ban people so they wouldn't get burned out.
[/ QUOTE ]1. How about responding to the WHOLE post, rather than cherry picking one item? Are you trying to say that you had no idea at all that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner? What did you mean, then, by "out of whack"?
2. Positron never threatened to ban people "so they wouldn't get burned out". The only thing he said about banning was "Players who knowingly use an exploit when creating an arc, run the risk of having access to MA suspended, or worse- depending on the severity of the action, their account banned."
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1. How about responding to the WHOLE post, rather than cherry picking one item? Are you trying to say that you had no idea at all that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner? What did you mean, then, by "out of whack"?
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LOL you mean you don't just know what I meant ? By being out of whack. What I meant was that they were a bit high in the rewards and would probably be brought down. No big deal its something that has happened often.
2. Fast leveling leads to burnout is the mantra behind all these decisions. Without that you just have him being random and arbitrary.
Good luck, Tripp. I give up on this guy.
Post deleted by Moderator 08
There are so many things I could say to that. Good luck. 
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There are so many things I could say to that. Good luck.
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I should give up on both of you.
I really can't believe anyone can sit there and argue your positions with a straight face.
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1. How about responding to the WHOLE post, rather than cherry picking one item? Are you trying to say that you had no idea at all that the Comm Officers were behaving in an unintended manner? What did you mean, then, by "out of whack"?
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LOL you mean you don't just know what I meant ? By being out of whack. What I meant was that they were a bit high in the rewards and would probably be brought down. No big deal its something that has happened often.
2. Fast leveling leads to burnout is the mantra behind all these decisions. Without that you just have him being random and arbitrary.
[/ QUOTE ]I strongly disagree with you about #2. But that's not what I'm interested in.
You are a farmer. By your own words in other posts, you have been one for "a long time". And you consider yourself good at it. I have no problem with accepting that claim at face value, nor do I consider farming inherently "bad" or "evil".
But, because you have been farming for a long time, and you are good at, you have plenty of experience with what constitutes a "normal" level of experience gain, and with the highest levels of experience available in the regular game.
You also have plenty of knowledge about what sorts of things are considered exploits by the Devs.
You thus have the knowledge and experience to recognize that the Comm Officer XP was more than "a bit high." And to recognize that the Comm Officer maps would be considered exploits.
You also have the knowledge and experience to know that the use of exploits is prohibited, and has been since well before the MArch was released.
So explain to me how, because the Devs did not specifically TELL us not to use the Comm Officers that way, there was no way you could know that doing so was breaking the rules?
Edit: I realized that my final statement could be interpreted as saying that you used the Comm Officer exploit yourself, but I have no evidence of that.
Allow me to rephrase my final statement thus:
Explain to me how, because the Devs did not specifically TELL us not to use the Comm Officers that way, doing so was not breaking the rules?
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There are so many things I could say to that. Good luck.
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I should give up on both of you.
I really can't believe anyone can sit there and argue your positions with a straight face.
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I am just as incredulous as you, but from the opposite perspective.
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I like the addition of ranged for melee.
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now can I have the same range on my ranged attacks?
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Yeah, I think a reasonable person can see why they added ranged attacks to custom toons... it's just that those ranged attacks seem a bit excessive. It seems they do more damage than other ranged attacks of the same type, and have a longer range. Of course, I don't really know that - but it certainly seems that way. If it was just on the order of a Freak Slicer or BP Zombie, I don't there would be nearly as much complaining about it.
But then I'm guessing someone will produce the actual numbers that show that they are on the same level as those attacks and I'll be embarrassed by my own positive selection bias.
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I haven't made detailed observations seeing as the ticket cap and posis threats have shifted me away from ma, but from what I have seen they are about on a par with blaster tier 1 and tier 2s. Their range seems to be at least 80 feet it maybe more