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Certainly fighting mobs while exploring to enjoy the combat itself is not something I would consider farming -- by my definition.
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Totally agree, heart_fr. What this kid is doing is the exact opposite of farming - fighting bad guys because they are there, not because it's a chore that must be endured in order to get xp.
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So if it is enjoyable it isn't farming? If so then I've never farmed in CoH ever.
I'm sorry, but the community seems to have decided that farming is some sort of arcane, subjective idea open to hundreds of interpretations. There's nothing wrong with that; I just would've hoped that somebody would have taken a step back, looked around and said, "Hey -- we haven't even defined what we're arguing over. This is stupid."
Then I imagine them getting up and walking away from their computer. They make their way through their apartment to the front door. They aren't in any rush. They walk out the front door and squint as the Sun tears into their retinas. Dazed, they look around. As the Sun blindness fades they behold and begin to weep. It's so beautiful it hurts. They drop to their knees and weep. They weep for all they had lost and all those that remain lost.
As they kneel there, weeping, a dark cloud moves over the Sun. At first it is naught but a speck upon the face of our mighty star, but soon it grows to be a blight threatening the face of our life giver. In seconds it is black.
Our hero, tormented and conflicted, looks upon the descending shadow and utters his last words.
"My God -- ninjas."
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thats really the root of the problem. everyone has their own definition of farming, and everyone has their own opinion on whether their farming definition is bad or not. Add in that some farmers hate roleplayers and their play style and some roleplayers think anyone who doesnt roleplay is beneath them and doing it wrong, and posi's well intentioned but badly worded statements set off a firestorm that may never die down.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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Totally agree, heart_fr. What this kid is doing is the exact opposite of farming - fighting bad guys because they are there, not because it's a chore that must be endured in order to get xp.
[/ QUOTE ]So if it is enjoyable it isn't farming? If so then I've never farmed in CoH ever.
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That's not quite what I meant. If you would do it even if there were no xp (or drops or whatever abstract reward there is), then it isn't farming. The kid fought crime in the streets for the joy of fighting crime in the streets, not for the xp.
It doesn't even make you a farmer if you do things that are enjoyable in themselves and are also glad to get the abstract rewards.
Once it gets to the point where there is no joy in the activity itself and it is all about the abstract reward, then it is farming - especially (but not only) if it is an extremely narrow, repetitive band of behavior. Even you enjoy nothing but piling up the abstract rewards.
So it's quite possible that you've never farmed - if you've enjoyed clearing the same cargo ship map over and over or whatever, paying no attention to xp, drops, or inf piling up, that's not farming. If you kept your eye on the xp meter (again - or whatever abstract reward system you prefer), if you ever said, not enough, I have to run the map again to get more numbers - you have farmed.
If this is an arcane, subjective definition, and you disagree with the existence of arcane, subjective definitions, then you're free to ignore this. If there's some objective definition handed down on a stone tablet by some divine being, please direct me to it and I will withdraw everything I've said. 
P.S. mod8 where are you :P
So lets just say that if you were driving home from wk, and you hita fork in the road. Path 1 is a long scenic drive with tons of traffic, and path 2 is an short underground tunnel. Both will take you to your desired destination. Why is it that ppl who drive the long scenic route want to force others to do the same? I mean both paths take you to the same place. What if ppl that has driven the scenic route many times before get bored of it and just want to get home faster by taking the tunnels. Is that wrong? Just because you think the shorter way is boring doesn't mean others will too. Some ppl just want to get home, especially if the already driven the scenic route
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So lets just say that if you were driving home from wk, and you hita fork in the road. Path 1 is a long scenic drive with tons of traffic, and path 2 is an short underground tunnel. Both will take you to your desired destination. Why is it that ppl who drive the long scenic route want to force others to do the same? I mean both paths take you to the same place. What if ppl that has driven the scenic route many times before get bored of it and just want to get home faster by taking the tunnels. Is that wrong? Just because you think the shorter way is boring doesn't mean others will too. Some ppl just want to get home, especially if the already driven the scenic route
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In my book, Sir, you've just won this Award.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Should have known that carebears are hard headed too. Please continue to drive the scenic route and leave others alone.
I'm a little apathetic mainly because it's excessively difficult to locate any decent missions right now. I went looking through the 4-star missions the other night, and was unable to pick real missions out from the hundreds and hundreds of invalidated Rikti meow missions that haven't been taken down, and can't be reported because they're unplayable.
It should be okay now that the bulk of the farmers have been frightened away, but we need a massive upgrade to the search UI before the MA is usable again.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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If there's some objective definition handed down on a stone tablet by some divine being, please direct me to it and I will withdraw everything I've said.
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That's a huge, sociological can of worms I would absolutely love getting into with you, yet I know it would be an unwarranted and undoubtedly unwanted digression from the theme of this thread.
Like I said, "There's nothing wrong with [arcane, subjective interpretations]; I just would've hoped that somebody would have taken a step back, looked around and said, 'Hey -- we haven't even defined what we're arguing over. This is stupid.'"
I would, however, posit that your definition is a tad weak if only because one of the core, driving concepts behind MMOs is the token economy. Extricating the token economy from game play is, I believe, in bad form and ultimately fruitless.
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Should have known that carebears are hard headed too. Please continue to drive the scenic route and leave others alone.
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Doesn't take a carebear to point out a really bad analogy.
try this.
One road is a long busy scenic road, this road has three normal lanes, a slow, average, and passing lane, and a carpool lane where busses travel at fast speeds to get commuters home quickly without them ever having to learn to drive. The second road isn't actually a road at all, its actually a unpaved forestry service road that isn't intended for private vehicles to travel on. This service road is much much much faster to drive on since its 1/10th the length and for all intents and purposes its just as level and smooth as the normal road. However this road has signs saying that private vehicles are restricted from driving on the road and the test you took to legally drive says you have to stay on authorized roads.
So there are your choices, take the legal road, the one where you can get home really fast using a bus system, or you can take the illegal forrestry service road that you are not supposed to.
hows that for a more accurate yet still not perfect analogy.
No one is saying you have to enjoy the scenery, nor are they saying that you have to drive the speed limit or get home at the same time everyone else does. All that most rational people and Positron is trying to say is that you have to get there using the legal road and not using exploits.
Power level, farm, or play how you want just do it within the boundries of the system and if you come across something that seems odd, something that just doesn't seem to be working right then report it rather than exploit it.
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Pretty much, they put up a sign in their produce market stating that although sampling is tolerated those that gorge themselves on the produce will be prosecuted as shoplifters.
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It's more in line with going to an all you can eat buffet, and being told you can eat as much as you want, but if you eat to much, you'll get thrown out.
Everyone here is paying for what they are getting.
Having run MA Farms for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 types of farmers:
1. Those that want max xp/inf/prestige/tickets per unit time, and anything less is unacceptable. These people can be stubborn at times, since they usually want a very specific team makeup and no lowbies.
2. Those that want to level up faster than normal, and usually want to experience a new or different powerset on a fully developed character. These are the types of people I run my farms for. I recognize that at some point, you simply don't want to have to go through the low levels, and want to play w/ a travel power, stamina, and SOs. My farms don't yield the kind of rewards some are looking for, but they are able to be run on less than ideal teams.
I don't use exploits, and I don't aim to have my missions be team-killers.
I put a lot of work into my custom characters and think the custom group I made has a lot of style.
If you want to check it out, it's 154150.
Have a great day, and remember to have fun!
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However this road has signs saying that private vehicles are restricted from driving on the road and the test you took to legally drive says you have to stay on authorized roads
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Red Herring. Powerleveling and farming is not a illegal in Co* so your analogy is frivolous.
I actually kind of like your analogy, Indorphins. I don't have a problem per se with farming, and I don't have a problem with people who want to get home fast. If there was a button that made your character level 50 instantly, I wouldn't stand in judgment on people who pressed it (though I personally would find a game predicated on "press the button" to be an empty and unfulfilling experience).
What I'm really saying is that it's too bad that people have to make a choice between getting home fast and seeing beautiful scenery. Believe it or not, I want to get home too (meaning I am pleased by abstract in-game rewards), but I want to see cool stuff on the way. I want to drive home for half an hour, looking at cool scenery, and not feel the nagging sense of missed opportunity for not taking the ugly, dank tunnel that would have gotten me home in 10 minutes. I also don't want to take the ugly, dank tunnel for 10 minutes and kick myself for missing out on the cool scenery on the long road.
To put this in the terms of the game, I don't want people to get better rewards for doing boring, repetitive stuff, and I don't want to receive lousy rewards for doing content that is worthwhile and fun. I want uninspiring, minimum-investment, low-effort content to provide crappy rewards, and I want the hard, interesting, time-consuming, challenging content to give the best rewards. I want the critical path to hard rewards to also be the path with the coolest intangible rewards.
Basically I want the tunnel to not be ugly, and maybe even be in a different place from day to day to keep it interesting, and for everyone to pretty much get home at the same time. If someone wants to get home in half the time, they shouldn't be able to with half the work (i.e. finding something that gives reward greater than risk and hammering away at it because it's efficient xp) - they should put in TWICE the work (meaning coming up with something creative rather than slaving away in the same old salt mine).
Anyway, I think you see what I mean, and I apologize if I'm rambling here. I'll let this post draw to a close now
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However this road has signs saying that private vehicles are restricted from driving on the road and the test you took to legally drive says you have to stay on authorized roads
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Red Herring. Powerleveling and farming is not a illegal in Co* so your analogy is frivolous.
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never said it was. In fact in my analogy the carpool lane, ie power leveling lane was just fine (it got you there the fastest and you didn't have to even learn to drive). the forestry road is the analogy for the MEOW team/exploit road.
Maybe my analogy could have been clearer, but nowhere did I say that power leveling was wrong, only breaking the rules to get somewhere faster was.
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However this road has signs saying that private vehicles are restricted from driving on the road and the test you took to legally drive says you have to stay on authorized roads
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Red Herring. Powerleveling and farming is not a illegal in Co* so your analogy is frivolous.
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never said it was. In fact in my analogy the carpool lane, ie power leveling lane was just fine (it got you there the fastest and you didn't have to even learn to drive). the forestry road is the analogy for the MEOW team/exploit road.
Maybe my analogy could have been clearer, but nowhere did I say that power leveling was wrong, only breaking the rules to get somewhere faster was.
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Point taken, but it was never said that Comm Officers was an exploit. With as obvious as it was, and as much as it was talked about, nothing was done to hide that fact either. So someone would have had to steal the restricted sign, or they just forgot to post it in the first place.
I don't disagree that the Comm Officers offered to much reward, or debating that they should have been removed, but about whether it was an exploit or not. I don't feel it was.
Lol to the person that took my award winning analogy and changed it to fit his views, all i read was blah, blah, blah. Yes, farmers are also hard headed too
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It happened with the PvPers and now, some of the farmers. If you're willing to act arrogant, rude and try to 'intimidate' the Devs... expect it to happen in kind.
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And if they ever decide to stick a knife in what you enjoy about the game it will happen with you
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Sure, I'd move on but I'm not going to turn that exodus into 'look-at-me-i'm-reallllly-angry-i'm-gonna-quit' tirade all over the boards.
I don't mind arguing a point every once in awhile, but I'm not cut out to act like a drama queen.
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Darth was wrong this is the real comedy gem.
Someone feels the need to go about bashing how other people play and then says they "I'm not cut out to act like a drama queen."
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never said it was. In fact in my analogy the carpool lane, ie power leveling lane was just fine (it got you there the fastest and you didn't have to even learn to drive). the forestry road is the analogy for the MEOW team/exploit road.
Maybe my analogy could have been clearer, but nowhere did I say that power leveling was wrong, only breaking the rules to get somewhere faster was.
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So -- if I take the carpool lane I don't know how to drive?
Remember (and this goes for everyone, not just the person I'm responding to): If you don't understand analogies then don't use'em. It's like a forklift and Christina Aguilera riding a golf cart.
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Point taken, but it was never said that Comm Officers was an exploit. With as obvious as it was, and as much as it was talked about, nothing was done to hide that fact either. So someone would have had to steal the restricted sign, or they just forgot to post it in the first place.
I don't disagree that the Comm Officers offered to much reward, or debating that they should have been removed, but about whether it was an exploit or not. I don't feel it was.
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We will have to agree to disagree here. I think the comm officers were a massive exploit in that they were not being used as intended and gave at specific levels extreme amounts of xp far and above anything else possible in the game. People knew this and exploited the heck out of it, I can't personally see how it isn't an exploit despite how long it took the devs to deal with it and despite how public it was.
To keep with the analogy its kind of like the last forest ranger that used it forgot to put the gate back the last time they used it and they didn't get around to either fixing the gate or closing it for a few weeks.
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So -- if I take the carpool lane I don't know how to drive?
Remember (and this goes for everyone, not just the person I'm responding to): If you don't understand analogies then don't use'em. It's like a forklift and Christina Aguilera riding a golf cart.
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No. Read the first post again. The Bus is the power leveling part of the analogy, people can ride the bus, get there the fastest and never learn to drive.
Also I never claimed it to be a perfect analogy, just an analogy that was better than the over simplified two lane thing.
I understand the analogy just fine, and I can use it just fine.
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If there's some objective definition handed down on a stone tablet by some divine being, please direct me to it and I will withdraw everything I've said.
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That's a huge, sociological can of worms I would absolutely love getting into with you, yet I know it would be an unwarranted and undoubtedly unwanted digression from the theme of this thread.
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Awwww, c'mon!
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I would, however, posit that your definition is a tad weak if only because one of the core, driving concepts behind MMOs is the token economy. Extricating the token economy from game play is, I believe, in bad form and ultimately fruitless.
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Ah, then I've been stating my purpose badly - I certainly don't want the game economy to be removed or divorced from gameplay or anything like that! I feel that the core economy of the game should be so seamlessly integrated into the gameplay that profitable play and interesting play are indistinguishable! I don't want to choose between playing for fun or playing for xp! I want everyone to have it all!!
... And I really think the devs want that too. When they do stuff like remove rewards for repeating TFs, they aren't trying to say, WE HATE YOU FOR REPEATING TFS! They're just trying to make it, as much as they're able, so that the path to the highest possible xp (or whatever) per hour is not a path of tedium and predictability. They're making it so that it's MORE profitable to rotate than do the same thing over and over. They're making the interesting path the fastest road home.
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No. Read the first post again. The Bus is the power leveling part of the analogy, people can ride the bus, get there the fastest and never learn to drive.
Also I never claimed it to be a perfect analogy, just an analogy that was better than the over simplified two lane thing.
I understand the analogy just fine, and I can use it just fine.
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Ah, so it does mention a bus -- I had to ctrl+f for it.
In all honesty your entire analogy got ejected before short term memory whilst I was reading it; it wasn't
particularly succinct.
Edit:
ICF_Zombra, I think you're greatly underestimating the token economy and its role in a massively multiplayer game. Also, I would most certainly resent a developer of an MMO changing the rewards I garner from doing something for the sole purpose of encouraging me to do something else. I pay the company for access to their service as a whole, not to be railroaded into other parts of their service as suits their whims. I highly doubt that your argument explains why that particular nerf was put in place and I am dubious of the assertion that it even factored into the decision making process.
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I highly doubt that your argument explains why that particular nerf was put in place and I am dubious of the assertion that it even factored into the decision making process.
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Wait, what? The TF nerf? You don't think they capped the rewards for a particular TF in a particular amount of time to 'force' people to broaden their content pallette? Or are you talking about the MA nerf?
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Wait, what? The TF nerf? You don't think they capped the rewards for a particular TF in a particular amount of time to 'force' people to broaden their content pallette?
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I do not and I would be rather offended if that were the reason.
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Certainly fighting mobs while exploring to enjoy the combat itself is not something I would consider farming -- by my definition.
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Totally agree, heart_fr. What this kid is doing is the exact opposite of farming - fighting bad guys because they are there, not because it's a chore that must be endured in order to get xp.
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So if it is enjoyable it isn't farming? If so then I've never farmed in CoH ever.
I'm sorry, but the community seems to have decided that farming is some sort of arcane, subjective idea open to hundreds of interpretations. There's nothing wrong with that; I just would've hoped that somebody would have taken a step back, looked around and said, "Hey -- we haven't even defined what we're arguing over. This is stupid."
Then I imagine them getting up and walking away from their computer. They make their way through their apartment to the front door. They aren't in any rush. They walk out the front door and squint as the Sun tears into their retinas. Dazed, they look around. As the Sun blindness fades they behold and begin to weep. It's so beautiful it hurts. They drop to their knees and weep. They weep for all they had lost and all those that remain lost.
As they kneel there, weeping, a dark cloud moves over the Sun. At first it is naught but a speck upon the face of our mighty star, but soon it grows to be a blight threatening the face of our life giver. In seconds it is black.
Our hero, tormented and conflicted, looks upon the descending shadow and utters his last words.
"My God -- ninjas."