Its ironic really. They rail and rail and rail about how the farmers are ruining their fun.
Then the second they get any reason to ruin the farmer's fun, are they mature about it? Hell no. The vocal minority seems to think the best solution to deal with the "stop having fun guys" is to be the EXACT SAME WAY AS THE PEOPLE THEY CLAIM ARE HURTING THEIR FUN
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
Really? Some one else said if you're getting more than 600 or so tickets, you're doing it wrong?
Wow... Did one amazing Troll/Dyne Bust that took a team of 8, and several trips to the hospital, and one or two team wipes (at lvl 43 BTW) over an hour to complete... We never did clear the entire map of spawns either, we fought to the end of the objective... I still think my 2600 tickets weren't too much... It wasn't an outright gold roll but certainly worth a shot at that Call of the Sandman I've been coveting... Certainly was less than the comm officer fiasco and MORE time/risk but certainly MORE rewarding...
The tickets, and the ability to finally start getting back the good drops for content since merits arrived really energized my play... I expected and desired corrections on AE, but the first heavy Nerf Whack put me off, and the ticket cap made me change all my search parameters to "NO AE"
[/ QUOTE ]
So it was a map entirely made of bosses, is what you're saying.
Yeah.
Still not normal.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
[ QUOTE ]
Its ironic really. They rail and rail and rail about how the farmers are ruining their fun.
Then the second they get any reason to ruin the farmer's fun, are they mature about it? Hell no. The vocal minority seems to think the best solution to deal with the "stop having fun guys" is to be the EXACT SAME WAY AS THE PEOPLE THEY CLAIM ARE HURTING THEIR FUN
[/ QUOTE ]
Farmers are one chinese guy 8-boxing.
He isn't having fun.
He's doing his job.
He would continue to do his job even if the screen flashed in sickening rainbow colors and his computer implemented Punch People In The Face Over The Internet Protocol.
Actual players can, through speeding up "cycle time" or other measures, continue to have fun if they're reward-focused. I believe HenryTank has started a thread on this very topic in this very forum.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
Oh no, the free money train has pulled into the station and no more trips are scheduled. Now you can choose to do regular content for decent rewards, or MA missions to check out some new stories for decent rewards.
It's doom for sure.
Really? Some one else said if you're getting more than 600 or so tickets, you're doing it wrong?
Wow... Did one amazing Troll/Dyne Bust that took a team of 8, and several trips to the hospital, and one or two team wipes (at lvl 43 BTW) over an hour to complete... We never did clear the entire map of spawns either, we fought to the end of the objective... I still think my 2600 tickets weren't too much... It wasn't an outright gold roll but certainly worth a shot at that Call of the Sandman I've been coveting... Certainly was less than the comm officer fiasco and MORE time/risk but certainly MORE rewarding...
The tickets, and the ability to finally start getting back the good drops for content since merits arrived really energized my play... I expected and desired corrections on AE, but the first heavy Nerf Whack put me off, and the ticket cap made me change all my search parameters to "NO AE"
So it was a map entirely made of bosses, is what you're saying.
Yeah.
Still not normal.
Sorry, not quite used to the forum formatting yet...
Sigh, no, it had 3 custom made critters. All very much like you'd expect to see trolls. Don't know if that makes a difference drop wise, but it certainly wasn't a comm officer cake walk. By comparision, 3-4x longer, a lot less xp and more than half the tickets less. And I really enjoyed myself... Were they bosses? Don't care. I enjoyed the mish and don't think the reward was out of whack.
The nerfs had to come. The holier than thou attitudes do not. These changes are what should have come out of beta...
In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?"
-- Real Genius
[ QUOTE ]
I pose this question, if these games are not about leveling or maxing out ones AT to the best of their ability, then why offer levels at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about that sentence. Less than half the letters you used there were vowels. Clearly that sentence was not really about the vowels! What I can't figure out is why you bothered to use vowels at all.
Wait! I think I figured it out! The vowels are a significant part of your sentence, while still not being the only important part, much less the whole reason for your sentence to exist in the first place.
Thanks for that illustration! It makes so much more sense now! 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I pose this question, if these games are not about leveling or maxing out ones AT to the best of their ability, then why offer levels at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about that sentence. Less than half the letters you used there were vowels. Clearly that sentence was not really about the vowels! What I can't figure out is why you bothered to use vowels at all.
Wait! I think I figured it out! The vowels are a significant part of your sentence, while still not being the only important part, much less the whole reason for your sentence to exist in the first place.
Thanks for that illustration! It makes so much more sense now!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
*deeeeep breath*
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...
One of the best satires I've ever seen in a post. Bravo! Bravo.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
[ QUOTE ]
Glad they told people that an enemy that was behaving exactly as it always had was an exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
"As it always had"? You do know that Comms used to give normal minion xp, right? And then datamining showed that they presented more of a challenge as part of normal Rikti spawns, when they weren't getting instantly killed before summoning their portals, so the xp was raised accordingly to reward the extra risk under normal circumstances? You do know that, right?
EDIT: P.S. Thanks Kitten 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I pose this question, if these games are not about leveling or maxing out ones AT to the best of their ability, then why offer levels at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about that sentence. Less than half the letters you used there were vowels. Clearly that sentence was not really about the vowels! What I can't figure out is why you bothered to use vowels at all.
Wait! I think I figured it out! The vowels are a significant part of your sentence, while still not being the only important part, much less the whole reason for your sentence to exist in the first place.
Thanks for that illustration! It makes so much more sense now!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
*deeeeep breath*
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...
One of the best satires I've ever seen in a post. Bravo! Bravo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? What?
*goes back to farming 'C's*
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh no, the free money train has pulled into the station and no more trips are scheduled. Now you can choose to do regular content for decent rewards, or MA missions to check out some new stories for decent rewards.
It's doom for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its not decent rewards in the MA, its patently subpar rewards. I use the MA anyways because its easier to find soloable content there, but the people wanting to make money are not gonna use the MA because its like trying to trade stocks with pennies.
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
Really? Some one else said if you're getting more than 600 or so tickets, you're doing it wrong?
Wow... Did one amazing Troll/Dyne Bust that took a team of 8, and several trips to the hospital, and one or two team wipes (at lvl 43 BTW) over an hour to complete... We never did clear the entire map of spawns either, we fought to the end of the objective... I still think my 2600 tickets weren't too much... It wasn't an outright gold roll but certainly worth a shot at that Call of the Sandman I've been coveting... Certainly was less than the comm officer fiasco and MORE time/risk but certainly MORE rewarding...
The tickets, and the ability to finally start getting back the good drops for content since merits arrived really energized my play... I expected and desired corrections on AE, but the first heavy Nerf Whack put me off, and the ticket cap made me change all my search parameters to "NO AE"
So it was a map entirely made of bosses, is what you're saying.
Yeah.
Still not normal.
Sorry, not quite used to the forum formatting yet...
Sigh, no, it had 3 custom made critters. All very much like you'd expect to see trolls. Don't know if that makes a difference drop wise, but it certainly wasn't a comm officer cake walk. By comparision, 3-4x longer, a lot less xp and more than half the tickets less. And I really enjoyed myself... Were they bosses? Don't care. I enjoyed the mish and don't think the reward was out of whack.
The nerfs had to come. The holier than thou attitudes do not. These changes are what should have come out of beta...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm saying that I don't believe it's mathematically possible to make a map containing an enemy group with a normal amount of minions, lieutenants, and bosses that rewards 2600 tickets per team member when cleared. The mission creator has to be spawning lieutenants in, in place of minions, or bosses in, in place of both minions and lieutenants.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
[ QUOTE ]
Glad they told people that an enemy that was behaving exactly as it always had was an exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
"As it always had"? You do know that Comms used to give normal minion xp, right? And then datamining showed that they presented more of a challenge as part of normal Rikti spawns, when they weren't getting instantly killed before summoning their portals, so the xp was raised accordingly to reward the extra risk under normal circumstances? You do know that, right?
Actually the Com Officers were raised and their Portal XP nullified Before Com officers had normal xp and the Portals gave xp.. Back then the goal was to get the comm officer to open a portal
[ QUOTE ]
It's not swarming with players as recently but it's still being used to write and deliver content. Those that like running missions to level are still doing so.
It's not the Katie Hannon of new content anymore, now it's the ITF: you run it for content or some rewards or just for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Glad to hear it. I myself have stayed away from MA for a few weeks. Back then one of my mid-level toons was invited onto a team that seemed dedicated to the eradication of every Rikti Communication Officer In The Known Universe(TM) and -- quite frankly -- it just left a bad taste in my mouth. No insult intended to those who want to blast through the levels that quickly, it's just not my cup of tea.
Anyway, if it seems to be calming down a bit I'll have to go check it out.
Has any official word come out on which badges are staying and which are going away?
-Buxley
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." -- Dr. Seuss
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh no, the free money train has pulled into the station and no more trips are scheduled. Now you can choose to do regular content for decent rewards, or MA missions to check out some new stories for decent rewards.
[/ QUOTE ]Its not decent rewards in the MA, its patently subpar rewards.
[/ QUOTE ]
I admit that I haven't analyzed the data exhaustively, because I don't really care about maximizing inf/hour, but there seem to be some strong arguments above by more serious number crunchers that 1500 per mission is more than plenty for normal play. The strongest argument against I've seen so far has been "but what about Defeat Alls on gigantic outdoor maps?" - and to me the answer is simple - don't farm gigantic Defeat All outdoor maps. There was something else you farmed instead a month ago that wasn't broken. Go back to that.
[ QUOTE ]
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, you're no more annoyed than I get at the sense of entitlement that the farm enthusiasts have displayed. They can't level 5x as fast in MA any more .. they may not even be able to level .8x as fast now .. why is that so awful? MA was never (ever, ever, ever) intended to be the ultimate high speed levelling tool, and now it isn't any more. So the xp/min people abused a broken toy and had it taken away. You can hardly expect a lot of sympathy.
You're absolutely right BadBad_Girl - my mistake. Still, they're not behaving as they always have.
[ QUOTE ]
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
[/ QUOTE ]
The "Oh, no! What is wrong with me abusing the content?!" kind of attitude is what annoys me.
Well that and "The game is only cool if I can abuse the content!" attitude.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
[/ QUOTE ]
The "Oh, no! What is wrong with me abusing the content?!" kind of attitude is what annoys me.
Well that and "The game is only cool if I can abuse the content!" attitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, thats the problem here,
Most farmers arent asking to abuse the content, only a very small fraction, who the rest don't like anyhow. Theyre asking very reasonably for their playstyle, which tends to favor repeatable missions filled with monsters, to not be treated like its ruining the game. Most farmers agreed that comm officers needed to die a horrible death. Most farmers don't want to burn this game into the ground, but they don't want to play your "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" either.
But if you asked the forum's opinion the very second you so much as run a Katie Hannon/ITF/Whathaveyou for a quick level up or two, your playstyle is wrong, evil, and needs to die in the fiery pits of hell because you don't play like them.
I ran all the Croatoa arcs just to unlock katie. Did I enjoy the arcs? Yes. Do i deserve to be villainized, have my characters deleted and be forcibly ejected from the game forever because between bouts of roleplaying and soloing AE arcs I enjoy a speedran Katie or ITF or even an AE farm for quick exp and/or loot? Apparently so if you ask most of the most vocal on the forum.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
[/ QUOTE ]
The "Oh, no! What is wrong with me abusing the content?!" kind of attitude is what annoys me.
Well that and "The game is only cool if I can abuse the content!" attitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I know! Those attitudes are WAAAY annoying. Like, they're almost as bad as the "I want to force you to play the way I like to play" attitudes! And like, the "I'd better spend time making sure you don't play the way you enjoy because I don't think you should" attitudes, too. Totally.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
On protector, I'd say it has died down from frenzy to moderate disinterest. Oh sure, there are people in the AE room, but most of the people seem oddly quiet and nobody is doing a whole lot.
That's probably where the AE should float: moderate disinterest. Meaning that some people will, some people wont.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Glad they told people that an enemy that was behaving exactly as it always had was an exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
"As it always had"? You do know that Comms used to give normal minion xp, right? And then datamining showed that they presented more of a challenge as part of normal Rikti spawns, when they weren't getting instantly killed before summoning their portals, so the xp was raised accordingly to reward the extra risk under normal circumstances? You do know that, right?
Actually the Com Officers were raised and their Portal XP nullified Before Com officers had normal xp and the Portals gave xp.. Back then the goal was to get the comm officer to open a portal
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, this entire scenario was precipitated by attempts to stamp out farming.
Originally Rikti comms were the same XP as any minion, and the enemies their portals spawned also gave normal XP. So, just like the Circle Portal rooms, people farmed Rikti comm officer portals, leaving the officers alive and wiping out the incoming enemies repeatedly.
For some reason this was determined to be too easy (although if you ever saw some of the gigantic groups that would accumulate you'd wonder how the devs thought that) and so the spawned enemies were stripped of any rewards, and portals themselves were given very high rewards. Of course then people would aggro the spawn till a portal dropped, then smash it in a couple seconds.
For some reason THIS was determined to be too easy, too, so the portals were stripped of rewards altogether, and to compensate the comm officers themselves were given LT level rewards.
Then MA happened.
So the worst farming problem in the history of the game was caused by the devs trying to eliminate farming.
There's irony there somewhere, should you care to look for it.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
The deed is done. Quit crying. You're fighting over the virgin that has already been defiled.
As far as just an opinion goes: When I want my badges, accolades, temp powers and such, I do normal content.
When I get bored of seeing canon critters for bazzilionth time, I do MA.
If prices for salvage starts getting jacked at the market, I do MA.
If I have a full tank of Patrol XP and want to get some leveling done, I do normal content.
If I want to build my own personal stress test for my toons; I go to the MA. (Note, wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to mark an arc as Public or Private; Private arcs only being available to the author for solo play)
If I feel creative and in the mood for sharing; I go to the MA.
If I want to test some powerset proliferation ideas (like a MM/ or melee/Kin); I go to the MA.
If I get a wild hair up my trench and decide I want to build up a custom bestiary; MA.
If I want Purples; normal content.
If I want to PvP; normal content.
If I want to farm; I could go either way.
I don't have the time needed to TF; MA it is.
Set up a timed mission tourney; MA.
In short, if the only way you choose to view MA is as a risk vs. reward tool; then you've totally missed the point and potential of MA.
[Note: If anything, this makes Ouro less likeable for much of anything outside of non-mayhem related badging - they really need to pump that system up]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
[ QUOTE ]
Most farmers arent asking to abuse the content, only a very small fraction, who the rest don't like anyhow. Theyre asking very reasonably for their playstyle, which tends to favor repeatable missions filled with monsters, to not be treated like its ruining the game. Most farmers agreed that comm officers needed to die a horrible death. Most farmers don't want to burn this game into the ground, but they don't want to play your "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" either.
But if you asked the forum's opinion the very second you so much as run a Katie Hannon/ITF/Whathaveyou for a quick level up or two, your playstyle is wrong, evil, and needs to die in the fiery pits of hell because you don't play like them.
I ran all the Croatoa arcs just to unlock katie. Did I enjoy the arcs? Yes. Do i deserve to be villainized, have my characters deleted and be forcibly ejected from the game forever because between bouts of roleplaying and soloing AE arcs I enjoy a speedran Katie or ITF or even an AE farm for quick exp and/or loot? Apparently so if you ask most of the most vocal on the forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Forumites are going to have varying opinions on what constitutes farming; that's a given.
However, the playstyle you noted does not put you in any danger of having your characters deleted or being forcibly removed from the game. You're safe there.
Nothing you described would fall under the categories of "extreme" or "abuse" or "egregious" or "exploit," especially since Positron indicated those all go together (the worst of the worst).
Have fun, with no worries.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most farmers arent asking to abuse the content, only a very small fraction, who the rest don't like anyhow. Theyre asking very reasonably for their playstyle, which tends to favor repeatable missions filled with monsters, to not be treated like its ruining the game. Most farmers agreed that comm officers needed to die a horrible death. Most farmers don't want to burn this game into the ground, but they don't want to play your "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" either.
But if you asked the forum's opinion the very second you so much as run a Katie Hannon/ITF/Whathaveyou for a quick level up or two, your playstyle is wrong, evil, and needs to die in the fiery pits of hell because you don't play like them.
I ran all the Croatoa arcs just to unlock katie. Did I enjoy the arcs? Yes. Do i deserve to be villainized, have my characters deleted and be forcibly ejected from the game forever because between bouts of roleplaying and soloing AE arcs I enjoy a speedran Katie or ITF or even an AE farm for quick exp and/or loot? Apparently so if you ask most of the most vocal on the forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Forumites are going to have varying opinions on what constitutes farming; that's a given.
However, the playstyle you noted does not put you in any danger of having your characters deleted or being forcibly removed from the game. You're safe there.
Nothing you described would fall under the categories of "extreme" or "abuse" or "egregious" or "exploit," especially since Positron indicated those all go together (the worst of the worst).
Have fun, with no worries.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know that. My point is that you do so much as even something vaguely related to farming and some of the forumites act like you just [censored] their children at gunpoint.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"
[/ QUOTE ]
The "Oh, no! What is wrong with me abusing the content?!" kind of attitude is what annoys me.
Well that and "The game is only cool if I can abuse the content!" attitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think I care if your annoyed? 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I am scared to leave the house because I think there are thieves and murderers on the subway"
"You freaking wuss! They only attack RICH people! Stop being such a baby and get on the damned subway!"
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
A better analogy would be:
"I broke a bunch of rules, told friends how to break the rules. We all profited grossly in excess of normal earnings and now we're acting surprised that this was noticed. We shall proceed to run around like chickens with our heads cut off ignoring the warnings given by the big bosses on the topic. Personal responsibility? Never heard of it."
I know of only one person that got a character locked. They went 1-50 in well under three hours.
If you've written a story-focused arc, it's not likely going to get zapped.
If you've written a one-mission trial arc, it will likely not get zapped.
If your arc levels someone 1-20 in 15-20 minutes;
If your arc got people 20,000+ tickets;
If your arc gives VASTLY more rewards than a normal mission arc would;
Then you have cause to be worried.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are new to the game or even a 9 month vet or less and you see and hear about all the nerf's and possible punishment then yes you can be and get scared man. It's happened and these people haven't broken any rules they just see and hear things. Not saying that you aren't right about some people doing exactly what you are saying but not everyone is and not everyone farms or has made farms that have hard mish's.
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons