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I have often seen this said. But I have never seen anything to prove that it is so. It most often seems to be an article of faith "That there is nothing in the game that requires planning/optimization/special build to achieve"
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They didn't say that there is nothing in the game that requires planning. They said there is nothing in the game that requires FARMING to achieve. This statement still holds up to your objections.
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1. To be good at PVP requires a build and powerset choices made especially for it.
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But does not require farming to achieve.
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2. Speed TFs in general require a measure planning and team construction.
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But do not require farming to achieve.
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3. The Masters of (States, Recluce) not only require good team planning, they also require good builds in key positions or they don't happen.
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But do not require farming to achieve.
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4. The player challenges, soloing gms, soloing tfs, soloing pylons, soloing the mothership, soloing avs with nothing but small inspirations require good builds and usually accolade powers.
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Which do not require farming to achieve.
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So no if you want to run on heroic and avoid the extreme content the game has to offer you don't need X. In my case that would likely burn me out due to extreme boredom.
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You can run on challenge level 4/5 and enjoy the "extreme content" without farming.
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LOL not if you don't have a decent build. Farming is just one part of an overall strategy to get that build. Efficient use of the market to rob roleplayers is the other part.
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That is a sad story, STL_Heroes. That type of behavior is one reason I dislike the farming culture. It is a good example of a definite negative impact that that culture has on other cultures in game.
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Yeah man it is, but I try, because I like to see this game flourish and everyone having a great time. I remember when getting FLY was a BIG DEAL to some people so they could stand on top of the Atlas Statue. lol Now you log in and its like...
"Must...
join...
AE team..."
And then we all eat brains afterwards. It's nuts!
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odd. I still find teams all the time without the AE. Pugs are pretty much dead but thats because radio mission pugs were essentailly the same crowd doing the AE PL farms. people who want 50 as fast as possible with the least effort
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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LOL not if you don't have a decent build. Farming is just one part of an overall strategy to get that build.
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You can get a good build without farming. I have never farmed and I've done most of what you've stated as being "extreme content". I always run on challenge level 4/5 with all my characters (and I have alot). I solo AVs on my 50s all the time.
Farming is an UNNECESSARY part of an overall strategy to get a decent build. You can get a decent build WITHOUT farming quite easily.
The statement that nothing in this game requires farming to accomplish is still absolutely true.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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It's called "farming" because of it's similarity to the seed/harvest cycle of a farm: you set a mission, harvest the minions, then leave the mission to reset/reseed it and start again
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I agree with that, but only because fighting minions is extremely boring to me. I created a custom group of only minions, and ran it with my tank. While I thought it was easy and boring, several people on the team still died continuously, and ended up leaving because it was to hard for them.
While I may think one thing is boring and repetitive, someone else may think it's fun. If it's fun to someone, it's not farming regardless of the reward.
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LOL not if you don't have a decent build. Farming is just one part of an overall strategy to get that build.
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You can get a good build without farming. I have never farmed and I've done most of what you've stated as being "extreme content". I always run on challenge level 4/5 with all my characters (and I have alot). I solo AVs on my 50s all the time.
Farming is an UNNECESSARY part of an overall strategy to get a decent build. You can get a decent build WITHOUT farming quite easily.
The statement that nothing in this game requires farming to accomplish is still absolutely true.
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Yes because you say so. We haven't had a thousand threads saying things are too pricey at the market. That the good stuff isn't available, that casual players can't get a good build, etc etc etc. Nope none of that ever happened.
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LOL not if you don't have a decent build. Farming is just one part of an overall strategy to get that build.
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You can get a good build without farming. I have never farmed and I've done most of what you've stated as being "extreme content". I always run on challenge level 4/5 with all my characters (and I have alot). I solo AVs on my 50s all the time.
Farming is an UNNECESSARY part of an overall strategy to get a decent build. You can get a decent build WITHOUT farming quite easily.
The statement that nothing in this game requires farming to accomplish is still absolutely true.
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Yes because you say so. We haven't had a thousand threads saying things are too pricey at the market. That the good stuff isn't available, that casual players can't get a good build, etc etc etc. Nope none of that ever happened.
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As an example of 1, I don't farm and yet I have every purple that I have ever wanted. I have multiple heroes with purple sets and my main hero has 3 full sets.
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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LOL not if you don't have a decent build. Farming is just one part of an overall strategy to get that build.
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You can get a good build without farming. I have never farmed and I've done most of what you've stated as being "extreme content". I always run on challenge level 4/5 with all my characters (and I have alot). I solo AVs on my 50s all the time.
Farming is an UNNECESSARY part of an overall strategy to get a decent build. You can get a decent build WITHOUT farming quite easily.
The statement that nothing in this game requires farming to accomplish is still absolutely true.
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Yes because you say so. We haven't had a thousand threads saying things are too pricey at the market. That the good stuff isn't available, that casual players can't get a good build, etc etc etc. Nope none of that ever happened.
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As an example of 1, I don't farm and yet I have every purple that I have ever wanted. I have multiple heroes with purple sets and my main hero has 3 full sets.
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:: Looks over at Hugginators 04 registration date ::
And no doubt in the 5 years you have been playing you haven't repeated any content, or been on a farm.
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
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Shhhh Its vital that the fun police believe their own propaganda. If they ever realize well the disturbance in the force would be as if a billion nerds suddenly realized they were pointless.
I certainly did, I have herded 300-600 wolves, preatorians, you name it into dumpsters for the 1 'Nova' it took to splat them into oblivion and it only took me 1 or 2 missions like that to realize that its bad for the long term lookout on the game and guess what, I was right that activity was nerfed just like every other bad for the game activity going forward from that point.
I think the main (!) anti-farming argument is:
"I have to farm to be competitive."
Which may or may not be true, but for those people who want to walk into PvP and not be completely owned, it may be necessary. (Folks like Hugginator, not so much.)
Now for the following, I define "Farming" as setting up a SPECIFIC mission and running it over and over. It could be an AE mission, or it could be a dev-created instance, or a TF such as Katie Hannon or the ITF.
Influence - Used to be a few instance missions on a fifty, and you had enough to SO a lower-level character. Now, with the markets, it costs quite a bit more to get the right 'sets'. Again, farming makes scrounging the money pretty fast.
Levels - it's pretty much the established practice to 'bridge' a lowbie into optimum XP range on a high-level mission, and then having them door-sit while the rest of the team (sometimes one or two characters) does the heavy lifting.
Badge hunters - some badges take a LONG time to accrue the requirements. Farming makes that go by faster.
Purpling out a character - you can either pay at the market... or run lots and lots and lots of 'sweeping' to try and get the recipe drops.
Yes you CAN get these things 'the hard way'... by running missions, arcs, TF's, etc. Farming tends to make it easier and faster at the expense of variety. Sometimes MUCH faster and easier. It's that latter bit that makes farming look like "something everyone has to do" if they want to compete in the big leagues in this game.
... which we know isn't true REALLY, but for a "want-it-now" nation this is what it boils down to.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
actually the main reason farming is bad is because you in a sense "win the game." Basically, game designer has to make a profit in order to give you cool stuff so they want the game to have some longevity. As soon as you introduce farming it lowers the value of currency and raises the prices on items. In a sense gives you everything that would have been worth working for. Why do you need to nickel and dime over an IO for 100 million when you can just farm and outright buy it. Why keep playing the game when you have every rare IO, badge, etc. Then players who don't farm do get left behind for advancement because they can't keep up with inflated costs.
This becomes a liability for the devs. They haven't kept CoH going for 5 years on people who take advantage of exploits and/or farm. They did it by cutting out exploits and then putting out decent content for people to play.
You guys were smart enough to figure out the exploits, you'd think you'd know that the exploit wasn't really acceptable and would probably get fixed once enough people drew attention to it. 
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
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Those people are Boss and Lt farming.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Wonder if there's a thread about those who got smacked back down to level 1 >_> I know of one person who lost 7 characters he PL'd to 50 via MA exploits.
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actually the main reason farming is bad is because you in a sense "win the game." Basically, game designer has to make a profit in order to give you cool stuff so they want the game to have some longevity. As soon as you introduce farming it lowers the value of currency and raises the prices on items. In a sense gives you everything that would have been worth working for. Why do you need to nickel and dime over an IO for 100 million when you can just farm and outright buy it. Why keep playing the game when you have every rare IO, badge, etc. Then players who don't farm do get left behind for advancement because they can't keep up with inflated costs.
This becomes a liability for the devs. They haven't kept CoH going for 5 years on people who take advantage of exploits and/or farm. They did it by cutting out exploits and then putting out decent content for people to play.
You guys were smart enough to figure out the exploits, you'd think you'd know that the exploit wasn't really acceptable and would probably get fixed once enough people drew attention to it.
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if they kept CoH going by preventing farms from existing, they've failed miserably or 5 years now.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
Here, IMHO, is the other Great Secret about Farming.
Farming is not inherently evil; in fact a certain amount of it can be good for the game. If only the people who actually enjoy farming farm, those people are getting their needs met and will stay subscribed. This is good.
But farms spread.
Anything a farmer can do, a non-farmer can do (in general). The practice spreads beyond those people who can 'handle' it. It spreads to people who hate it but now beleive they have to do it, and it spreads to just plain TOO MANY people.
Then, before you kow it, Farming is not a few outliers having fun. It becomes the normal speed of the game. "Everyone does it", and all that. It becomes an activity the Devs can't tolerate or ignore, because that all-important average speed to 50 begins to creep up or maybe even leap up.
Farming, even extreme farming might be okay in this game if the MArc were putting out enough fun content to keep those fastracked purpled-out 50s busy for months and months. But it CAN'T because once you've spent 50 levels on easy high-profit content, how are you going to switch over to no-profit, difficult content?
If you are a 'true farmer', this is no big deal; you just farm up and alt and have fun doing it. If you are a 'wannabe farmer' or a 'farmer hanger on' and you don't PvP, what are you going to do with that 8 hour, max level, purpled-out guy that you just put yourself through hours of torture to get?
Farm the ITF for fun? No, becaue you don't actually like farming itself.
The Devs have to respond; with nerfs, tougher foes, or code that just plain slows you down.
When really, all they want is for you to play your character the way you want to and not worry about how fast you are levelling or acquiring loot. This whole game is designed around the projected habits of the casual gamer.
If you don't beleive this game was designed for everyone to level at the speed you are levelling, then you know why 'farming is bad for the game". If there were only 1000 or so people doing it, it wouldn't be a problem.
When you see the Devs add a 'press this button to level to 50 with a purple build' button to Breakout/Outbreak, then you will know that all farming is okay, and that the game has been restructured so that farming won't break it.
The simple truth is, if the Devs did not compensate for farmers, then all foes in this game would give larger rewards faster. Farming affects everyone. I can't prove that, but you know it's true.
EDIT: Oh, and if you beleive that "thus and so is obviously intended by the Devs because it's been in the game for 5 years", then talk to a PvPer. Or a /Regen. Or a Controller.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I am still having fun playing peoples created content. The changes that the devs made didnt affect me since I wasnt into farming or lazy story creation. More power to them.
High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
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Anything a farmer can do, a non-farmer can do (in general). The practice spreads beyond those people who can 'handle' it. It spreads to people who hate it but now beleive they have to do it, and it spreads to just plain TOO MANY people.
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That's called a slippery slope argument. It's a well known logical fallacy. If it were true why isn't everyone doing it now ?
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Then, before you kow it, Farming is not a few outliers having fun. It becomes the normal speed of the game. "Everyone does it", and all that. It becomes an activity the Devs can't tolerate or ignore, because that all-important average speed to 50 begins to creep up or maybe even leap up.
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This has been challenged but no one has presented anything to show it is actually true.
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I can't prove that, but you know it's true.
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No I don't.
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
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Those people are Boss and Lt farming.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is a Bad Thing? A Good Thing? Okay? Not Okay?
Farming with MArch content, even custom content, isn't prohibited. Building missions that are specifically optimized for Farming appears to be what's banned. (By which I mean "designed to maximize the Rewards AND minimize the Effort".)
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if they kept CoH going by preventing farms from existing, they've failed miserably or 5 years now.
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I didn't say that. But the have closed exploits on a regular basis. They HAVE to.
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
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Those people are Boss and Lt farming.
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That's still farming. I even still see arcs in the MA list that say "farm", for example "Lvl 54 Farm for 40+" and they're not talking about Old McDonald.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
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Has it, really? Stand in the AE building in Cap Au Diable on Virtue. The LFF and Farm LFM broadcast and local is still there, just not as bad as it was.
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Those people are Boss and Lt farming.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is a Bad Thing? A Good Thing? Okay? Not Okay?
Farming with MArch content, even custom content, isn't prohibited. Building missions that are specifically optimized for Farming appears to be what's banned. (By which I mean "designed to maximize the Rewards AND minimize the Effort".)
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I've seen A LOT of arcs catered to that. None of the ones that I usually run aren't banned. They are all designed to max rewards and minimize effort. o_O
I'm assuming arcs that have outliers and exploits are what's banned, not optimized missions. At least, from what I've seen anyway.
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The Devs have to respond; with nerfs, tougher foes, or code that just plain slows you down
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Since MA, I've been using an increase in mob size spawn to create tougher foes through zerging in an enclosed area. The problem is, the old way of farming is still there - fill/pad, spawn a map, and solo. I used to do this because it was the only option to create larger spawns for smaller teams. MA has added that extra difficulty into the game for me without touching the other parts of the game for everyone else. I ran radio missions for the first time a few nights ago, and it was boring and insanely easy on invincible.
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Farming affects everyone. I can't prove that, but you know it's true
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I see that thrown around alot like it's a bad thing. If it does affect everyone, it's in a positive manner.
It is okay and it is a good thing. Don't try to marry exploits/outliers to content that can be farmed in general they are not the same.
In terms of the AV, EB, Boss and LT missions they do not fall into the expliot category nor the outlier category. Castle's all AV mission would be an example of this.
If your point is nobody should be making missions that can be farmed with MA, I would just say that crusade is a total waste of time. People are going to make missions that can be farmed with MA and they will farm them, period. None of those people are in ANY danger of being banned etc... anymore than your average BM or TV farmer.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I can't disagree with anything you said other than your definition of farming, but people will continue to farm the way that yields the most output. I do farm, but the way I farm has changed since AE came out, and I really don't consider what I've been doing farming since the change to Comm Officers. Now it's possible to make a mission where people have to fight 6 groups at once which makes the mission insanly hard and incredible fun for me. I guess it explains why I enjoy the ITF so much. The rewards are still there, but it's fun as well.
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Farming is by definition repetitive activity. It's called "farming" because of it's similarity to the seed/harvest cycle of a farm: you set a mission, harvest the minions, then leave the mission to reset/reseed it and start again. You are killing the same things over and over again to increase your rewards/hour. The MA made this insanely easy to do by allowing people to create custom groups of weak minions who are easily "harvested" for their rewards.
Just simply running the ITF for the fun of the big battles (a big draw for that taskforce for me) is not farming by itself. Going into an AE mission that's designed to spawn six challenging groups at once is not really farming by itself. Those things CAN be farmed but are not, themselves, farms.
The rikti comm officer maps WERE, however, both farms and, (at least before the patch), exploits.
Not all big spawns are farms, not all farms are exploits, and not all exploits are farms.