[ QUOTE ]
So did you fight your custom toons by hovering or flying above them and attacking with no fear of them ever being able to attack you? Because that's the reason the ranged attack was given to them.
It was possible to create boss level mobs that were very dangerous in melee, then just hover above them and rain down death with absolutely zero danger. It was an exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
\What did the devs think would happen by not giving range attacks to all powers. This is not the first time this game dealt with that issue.
It started in I1 people use to farm werewolves that way so the dev team added the ranged boulder attack back then.
I so that one from a mile away the 1st time I logged on and dorked with MA
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
[ QUOTE ]
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It's interesting to me that there is no anti-farming faction in this argument; there is only an anti-AE-farming faction. The most vocal of this faction have stipulated that they don't consider farming bad or inherently exploitative.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's because most of the idiots spouting that view are probably still busy in Positron's followup topic screaming their heads off about mean farmers threatening their children or acting holier than thou about how amazing their arcs are that aren't getting plays because farmers are mean and prevent people from playing storyarcs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[ QUOTE ]
I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
An easy thing to say. Back it up with some proof.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
It must suck to be you since there is not a damm thing you can do to control how someone else decides to play the game they pay 15 quid a month for then. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Proof? Be serious, Its all around you in multiple forms. You don't really need me to point it out to you?
[ QUOTE ]
Proof? Be serious, Its all around you in multiple forms. You don't really need me to point it out to you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Humor us.
P.S. Stop stealing my shtick other kitty!
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However this road has signs saying that private vehicles are restricted from driving on the road and the test you took to legally drive says you have to stay on authorized roads
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Red Herring. Powerleveling and farming is not a illegal in Co* so your analogy is frivolous.
[/ QUOTE ]
never said it was. In fact in my analogy the carpool lane, ie power leveling lane was just fine (it got you there the fastest and you didn't have to even learn to drive). the forestry road is the analogy for the MEOW team/exploit road.
Maybe my analogy could have been clearer, but nowhere did I say that power leveling was wrong, only breaking the rules to get somewhere faster was.
[/ QUOTE ]
Point taken, but it was never said that Comm Officers was an exploit. With as obvious as it was, and as much as it was talked about, nothing was done to hide that fact either. So someone would have had to steal the restricted sign, or they just forgot to post it in the first place.
I don't disagree that the Comm Officers offered to much reward, or debating that they should have been removed, but about whether it was an exploit or not. I don't feel it was.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the only definition that counts for exploits is what the devs consider it to be. They've stated that an exploit is when you use an unforeseen or unintended game mechanic to give yourself a statistical advantage that you wouldn't have in normal gameplay. Seeing as missions within the game have always had a mixture of enemies, creating a map filled with a single enemy that basically self-nerfs itself in that situation.... is an exploit. 
[/ QUOTE ]
so..since Radios are one mob type..Radios are exploits? >_>
[/ QUOTE ]
No of course not. He's referring to all one individual enemy over and over. I see where he's coming from, I just don't agree. If that were the case, they would have made it mandatory to make at least one minion, one lt, and one boss in every group.
[ QUOTE ]
I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly is meant by this ? I definitely maybe understand it.
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I see nothing wrong with how you or anyone else is playing the game, aside from the RMT'ers. Cheers.
[/ QUOTE ]Copy that. Welcome to the game!
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I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly is meant by this ? I definitely maybe understand it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not antifarming, per se.
I do beleive games should be designed to reduce the effects that farming has on an MMO.
Some people love farming and can farm all day without burning out and hating the game. I have no proof, but I beleive these people to be a minority.
Most people who farm, farm to get shinies faster, not because they enjoy the activity themselves. They find themselves repating an unpleasant activity over and over because, in the words of many farmers on these boards, "I have to in order to get x."
What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
That's bad for the game.
The Devs don't hate farming because of the effect on farmers; they hate it because of the effect it has on non-farmers who want to emulate the farmers and burn themselves out in the process.
Here is another example from this very game:
A guy joined this game during 'meow wars'. HThe friend who recruited him saw him gain over 20 levels in 3 hours. He then asked Guy if he was having fun.
Guy replied that the game was boring because the enemies were too easy.
They then took Guy into some tough missions, and had some rollicking skin-of-your-teeth encounters. Afterward, they asked Guy if he was having fun NOW.
Nope: the xp was too slow.
THAT is exactly the nightmare scenario of every MMO Dev everywhere. A player who CANNOT enjoy your game because of farming. THAT is what the Devs want to prevent.
Therefore, Farming, like every other form of min/maxing in any MMO, shoud give a small enough advantage that it is not devastatingly destructive to 'normal speed' content.
The Devs simply cannot create new content faster than players can consume it. The MA can, but only if it does not also make things worse itself, by accellerating those players to the speed of plaid.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
I am not antifarming, per se.
I do beleive games should be designed to reduce the effects that farming has on an MMO.
Some people love farming and can farm all day without burning out and hating the game. I have no proof, but I beleive these people to be a minority.
Most people who farm, farm to get shinies faster, not because they enjoy the activity themselves. They find themselves repating an unpleasant activity over and over because, in the words of many farmers on these boards, "I have to in order to get x."
What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
That's bad for the game.
The Devs don't hate farming because of the effect on farmers; they hate it because of the effect it has on non-farmers who want to emulate the farmers and burn themselves out in the process.
Here is another example from this very game:
A guy joined this game during 'meow wars'. HThe friend who recruited him saw him gain over 20 levels in 3 hours. He then asked Guy if he was having fun.
Guy replied that the game was boring because the enemies were too easy.
They then took Guy into some tough missions, and had some rollicking skin-of-your-teeth encounters. Afterward, they asked Guy if he was having fun NOW.
Nope: the xp was too slow.
THAT is exactly the nightmare scenario of every MMO Dev everywhere. A player who CANNOT enjoy your game because of farming. THAT is what the Devs want to prevent.
Therefore, Farming, like every other form of min/maxing in any MMO, shoud give a small enough advantage that it is not devastatingly destructive to 'normal speed' content.
The Devs simply cannot create new content faster than players can consume it. The MA can, but only if it does not also make things worse itself, by accellerating those players to the speed of plaid.
[/ QUOTE ]I am in 100% agreement with this post. THIS is why I said more than a certain amount of farming would hurt the game.
I believe that certain amount that's "Too Much" is somewhere ABOVE the amount supported by the regular game Farms. I believe that if we were allowed to build Farm Missions in Mission Architect, then it would exceed that "Too Much", and end up hurting the overall game.
Too Much of ANY playstyle would hurt the game.
(PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT anti- ANY playstyle. I am anti- excess.)
[edited to remove nested quotes]
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I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly is meant by this ? I definitely maybe understand it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not antifarming, per se.
I do beleive games should be designed to reduce the effects that farming has on an MMO.
Some people love farming and can farm all day without burning out and hating the game. I have no proof, but I beleive these people to be a minority.
Most people who farm, farm to get shinies faster, not because they enjoy the activity themselves. They find themselves repating an unpleasant activity over and over because, in the words of many farmers on these boards, "I have to in order to get x."
What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
That's bad for the game.
The Devs don't hate farming because of the effect on farmers; they hate it because of the effect it has on non-farmers who want to emulate the farmers and burn themselves out in the process.
Here is another example from this very game:
A guy joined this game during 'meow wars'. HThe friend who recruited him saw him gain over 20 levels in 3 hours. He then asked Guy if he was having fun.
Guy replied that the game was boring because the enemies were too easy.
They then took Guy into some tough missions, and had some rollicking skin-of-your-teeth encounters. Afterward, they asked Guy if he was having fun NOW.
Nope: the xp was too slow.
THAT is exactly the nightmare scenario of every MMO Dev everywhere. A player who CANNOT enjoy your game because of farming. THAT is what the Devs want to prevent.
Therefore, Farming, like every other form of min/maxing in any MMO, shoud give a small enough advantage that it is not devastatingly destructive to 'normal speed' content.
The Devs simply cannot create new content faster than players can consume it. The MA can, but only if it does not also make things worse itself, by accellerating those players to the speed of plaid.
[/ QUOTE ]I am in 100% agreement with this post. THIS is why I said more than a certain amount of farming would hurt the game.
I believe that certain amount that's "Too Much" is somewhere ABOVE the amount supported by the regular game Farms. I believe that if we were allowed to build Farm Missions in Mission Architect, then it would exceed that "Too Much", and end up hurting the overall game.
Too Much of ANY playstyle would hurt the game.
(PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT anti- ANY playstyle. I am anti- excess.)
[/ QUOTE ]
ditto.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
An easy thing to say. Back it up with some proof.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't supply proof, but I have some evidence. You can draw your own conclusions.
Many professionals in the MMO industry who have built long-running successful games seem to continually try to limit farming. The attempt this mostly through creating a large variety of content, so that their users do not have to repeat the same content consecutively. The do want you to repeat content, just not back to back to back, and not exclusively of all other content. Occasionally, they create content with unforeseen ability to tweak reward levels to outside acceptable ranges. In those cases they put some change into place for that content.
Creating this variety of content is difficult, since a small number of people need to create content for hundreds of hours of gameplay. Someday soon that might change.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game, has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have often seen this said. But I have never seen anything to prove that it is so. It most often seems to be an article of faith "That there is nothing in the game that requires planning/optimization/special build to achieve"
This really seems just not to be so.
1. To be good at PVP requires a build and powerset choices made especially for it. Regen will wipe the floor will power etc. Sonic, will take down energy and just about anything else blasterly. Secondarys Energy Manip is king.
2. Speed TFs in general require a measure planning and team construction. At the very least they need a core of people that can manage it and support. Not everyone needs to be heavily optimized but if none are the time will not be nearly as good.
3. The Masters of (States, Recluce) not only require good team planning, they also require good builds in key positions or they don't happen. Recluce seems to require a better than SO in every position.
4. The player challenges, soloing gms, soloing tfs, soloing pylons, soloing the mothership, soloing avs with nothing but small inspirations require good builds and usually accolade powers.
So no if you want to run on heroic and avoid the extreme content the game has to offer you don't need X. In my case that would likely burn me out due to extreme boredom.
GOOD QUESTION!!
MY answer? Its not a good mood for the game.
It's funny because I've always been the guy on the Victory server in Atlas tryin to reach out to players and add a little fun to the game, on teams or just in general. Well, I log into Atlas tonight with my usual "HELLLOOO ATLAS PARK!", and no response. There were at LEAST 20 ppl there and no response. Usually I get a "Hi Mike" or a "Go to hell Mike!" from one of my friends or regular players I know from the game lol, but not even a smart aleck response from anybody.
Tried once more to conversate with folks via local OR broadcast just to liven things up like I normally do, and nothing. I even tried pushin a few buttons by sayin "Seems like everyones in a AE farm-grind trance"....nothin.
It's scary, crazy, and really kinda strange for a player like myself to see this type of thing. Oh, but wait, THEN I playfully said on broadcast "AE team forming, 1 spot left, send tell asap!!" and guess what? Yup, you guessed.
Of course I wasnt formin no team I was lookin for creative missions to solo myself, but its becoming pretty sad in Atlas Park, the mood is "Hypnotized by AE grinding" as I like to put it.
However I see things straightening themselves out for AE and everyone, theres still plenty of ppl that do OTHER stuff and are fun to hang around in-game, and I still have fun playing CoH and will continue to make the game as fun as possible for everyone around me.
Sorry the post was so long, had to get this off my chest. LOL
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COX style farming is here to stay and helps keep a lot of people renewing their subs each month.
Exploit/outlier farming is not good for the game,
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.
[ QUOTE ]
has been removed and is no longer an issue as of the patch that removed the exploits/outliers.
[/ QUOTE ]
A few have been removed (even one that wasn't listed in the Patch Notes). Time will tell if there are any more.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
[ QUOTE ]
There is something that you mentioned that seems a little off. What unusally high reward is being gained by those running the BM and TV farms? Can you give a "specific" example of a "current" farm that supports your statement of "unusally high rewards"?
It seems to me what you are referring too is "expliots" being farmed, not farms that are examples of exploits because there are none of those. If you know of any then you need to report them to the devs asap.
[/ QUOTE ](Sorry, I missed this when I was skimming to catch up.)
I only meant that they gave an unusually high ratio of Reward to Effort in comparison to other regular game content. They still must be within the Devs' "acceptable" range, or they'd have been nerfed before now.
I'm sure that if we could measure the average ratio of Reward to Effort for each item of in-game content, it would show a bell-curve distribution. I'm also sure all "Farms" are in the upper portion of the curve.
[ QUOTE ]
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I am anti-farming in general, its clear to me that it hurts the game in the long run if allowed to run unchecked to some degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly is meant by this ? I definitely maybe understand it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not antifarming, per se.
I do beleive games should be designed to reduce the effects that farming has on an MMO.
Some people love farming and can farm all day without burning out and hating the game. I have no proof, but I beleive these people to be a minority.
Most people who farm, farm to get shinies faster, not because they enjoy the activity themselves. They find themselves repating an unpleasant activity over and over because, in the words of many farmers on these boards, "I have to in order to get x."
What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
That's bad for the game.
The Devs don't hate farming because of the effect on farmers; they hate it because of the effect it has on non-farmers who want to emulate the farmers and burn themselves out in the process.
Here is another example from this very game:
A guy joined this game during 'meow wars'. HThe friend who recruited him saw him gain over 20 levels in 3 hours. He then asked Guy if he was having fun.
Guy replied that the game was boring because the enemies were too easy.
They then took Guy into some tough missions, and had some rollicking skin-of-your-teeth encounters. Afterward, they asked Guy if he was having fun NOW.
Nope: the xp was too slow.
THAT is exactly the nightmare scenario of every MMO Dev everywhere. A player who CANNOT enjoy your game because of farming. THAT is what the Devs want to prevent.
Therefore, Farming, like every other form of min/maxing in any MMO, shoud give a small enough advantage that it is not devastatingly destructive to 'normal speed' content.
The Devs simply cannot create new content faster than players can consume it. The MA can, but only if it does not also make things worse itself, by accellerating those players to the speed of plaid.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't disagree with anything you said other than your definition of farming, but people will continue to farm the way that yields the most output. I do farm, but the way I farm has changed since AE came out, and I really don't consider what I've been doing farming since the change to Comm Officers. Now it's possible to make a mission where people have to fight 6 groups at once which makes the mission insanly hard and incredible fun for me. I guess it explains why I enjoy the ITF so much. The rewards are still there, but it's fun as well.
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What I beleive they really mean (since there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get) "I have to in order to get x as fast as the farmers do." After all, it's one thing to know you'll get to 50 some day. But when your little brother gets to 50 in ONE day, you're going to want to know how he did it, and you are probably going to want to do it yourself. And if the way to get 50 that fast is not fun, you just shortened your life expectancy in this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have often seen this said. But I have never seen anything to prove that it is so. It most often seems to be an article of faith "That there is nothing in the game that requires planning/optimization/special build to achieve"
[/ QUOTE ]Except she didn't say "there is nothing in the game that requires planning/optimization/special build to achieve".
She said "there is nothing in this game that requires farming to get". (Emphasis mine.)
That is a sad story, STL_Heroes. That type of behavior is one reason I dislike the farming culture. It is a good example of a definite negative impact that that culture has on other cultures in game.
[ QUOTE ]
That is a sad story, STL_Heroes. That type of behavior is one reason I dislike the farming culture. It is a good example of a definite negative impact that that culture has on other cultures in game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah man it is, but I try, because I like to see this game flourish and everyone having a great time. I remember when getting FLY was a BIG DEAL to some people so they could stand on top of the Atlas Statue. lol Now you log in and its like...
"Must...
join...
AE team..."
And then we all eat brains afterwards. It's nuts!
[ QUOTE ]
I have often seen this said. But I have never seen anything to prove that it is so. It most often seems to be an article of faith "That there is nothing in the game that requires planning/optimization/special build to achieve"
[/ QUOTE ]
They didn't say that there is nothing in the game that requires planning. They said there is nothing in the game that requires FARMING to achieve. This statement still holds up to your objections.
[ QUOTE ]
1. To be good at PVP requires a build and powerset choices made especially for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
But does not require farming to achieve.
[ QUOTE ]
2. Speed TFs in general require a measure planning and team construction.
[/ QUOTE ]
But do not require farming to achieve.
[ QUOTE ]
3. The Masters of (States, Recluce) not only require good team planning, they also require good builds in key positions or they don't happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
But do not require farming to achieve.
[ QUOTE ]
4. The player challenges, soloing gms, soloing tfs, soloing pylons, soloing the mothership, soloing avs with nothing but small inspirations require good builds and usually accolade powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which do not require farming to achieve.
[ QUOTE ]
So no if you want to run on heroic and avoid the extreme content the game has to offer you don't need X. In my case that would likely burn me out due to extreme boredom.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can run on challenge level 4/5 and enjoy the "extreme content" without farming.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
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... I've always been the guy on the Victory server in Atlas tryin to reach out to players ...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well THERE's the problem.
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Yes but my perspective has a 1000 years of jurisprudence and cultural norms behind it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You really don't. This isn't a court of law or anything like it. This is you paying to "go over to someone else's house" to play with their toys. Their rules, whether you agree with them or not. Specifics are not given to avoid exactly the kind of "rules lawyering" you're thriving on.
[/ QUOTE ]
and you would be wrong. Just like letting some one spend the night at your house. Once money is exchanged, different rules apply. You must go through eviction proceedings before you can remove them, if you have accepted their money.
[/ QUOTE ]
I work in a hotel. You couldn't be more wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hotels have specific laws pertaining to them. Private homes do not. Try again.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do video games?
[/ QUOTE ]
Seeing as how it would be a civil case, what would a jury think? who knows. The EULA lets them say "see here what the plaintiff agreed to". But it is not a law in and of itself. Maybe one of our legal scholars could say, but there are circumstances when any "contractual" obligation are void. If the contractee is a minor in some states. In Texas, a minor cannot sign away his rights to litigate. Makes damage waivers real iffy.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages