Discussion: Issue 14: Mission Architect - FAQ
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2009-02-26 13:02 in Developers' Corner
Regarding Trial Accounts using Mission Architect, if they are going to put a new box on the shelves, specifically promoting MA, wouldn't they HAVE to let trial accounts use it?
That would be like putting out the GvE Edition and not letting you try redside unless you subscribed.
My question: Will you be able to take virtual tours of whatever map you chose? I haven't seen every map in the game, and I haven't memorized every one I have seen, so placing glowies, or mobs on a map will be much more difficult if I only have the 2-D version to look at.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Regarding Trial Accounts using Mission Architect, if they are going to put a new box on the shelves, specifically promoting MA, wouldn't they HAVE to let trial accounts use it?
That would be like putting out the GvE Edition and not letting you try redside unless you subscribed.
My question: Will you be able to take virtual tours of whatever map you chose? I haven't seen every map in the game, and I haven't memorized every one I have seen, so placing glowies, or mobs on a map will be much more difficult if I only have the 2-D version to look at.
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The screenshots showed a top down version of the map, and I would imagine that there is a way to test run the map before placing any spawns in the event that you didn't know the map by the layout.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
this sort of thing seems to have been well received (creating your own content) when ryzom did it... not sure if ryzom's was just missions, or if it included areas as well.
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
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I didn't see this question answered (not sure if it was asked actually) but will trial accounts be able to rate missions/arcs?
[/ QUOTE ]Hopefully not, lest we get flooded with arcs full of RMT ads. (I had to have this pointed out to me, I must admit.)
[/ QUOTE ]Or worse, creating multiple trial accounts to rate up your own arc. In the worst case, creating 1000 trial accounts to give yourself Hall of Fame.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Regarding Trial Accounts using Mission Architect, if they are going to put a new box on the shelves, specifically promoting MA, wouldn't they HAVE to let trial accounts use it?
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No, the boxes come with a month of time. They aren't trial accounts, they're real accounts with a month on them.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Regarding Trial Accounts using Mission Architect, if they are going to put a new box on the shelves, specifically promoting MA, wouldn't they HAVE to let trial accounts use it?
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No, the boxes come with a month of time. They aren't trial accounts, they're real accounts with a month on them.
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Ah, good point. Still, introducing something as potentially "genre-changing" as this and not letting people play with it prior to buying the full version of the game...? It will make the trial users' cries of "Why can't I team???" seem like the pleasant babbling of a mountain brook IMO. Not that I don't see the potential for RMTers to exploit the system.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
I see no reason not to allow trial accounts to play MA arcs. However I think ratings should be disabled for them.
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I see no reason not to allow trial accounts to play MA arcs. However I think ratings should be disabled for them.
[/ QUOTE ]Sounds good to me.
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A counter for "people who bailed without completing this arc" might actually be easier to grief than keeping an eye out for 1-star bandits. I mean, what if you keep getting interrupted by other stuff and bail out of MA arcs regularly to go play with your SG, run task forces, etc (MA arcs apparently work like Oro arcs and TFs as opposed to Story Arcs). How do you differentiate between someone who's easily distracted and someone who's griefing? Placing a lot of 1-star ratings takes deliberate action after all, being distracted by shiny things does not.
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If somebody has not played through the entire arc then their ratings do not reflect the quality of the whole arc. Being interrupted by whatever it may be doesnt justify you to rate the entire arc after only playing part of it.
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Now you're introducing essentially a "no star rating" and extra complexity beyond the normal rating system. You do, after all, want to be able to distinguish between people who bailed the arc to go do something else and people who quit because it was awful. How do you phrase the "give it a no star or not" question in a way that makes sense to the average user? People have trouble with a 1-5 scale, and we're now going to add something else?
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A 'this arc is awful and sucks' marker really should not be hard for someone to figure out. If you like the arc, play it through and rate it, if its unbearable due to difficulty or its simply horrible, stop, give it the awful marker and move on. Its not as complicated as you make it sound and leaving the arc due to distraction wouldnt apply the flag unless you wanted it to.
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The problem with these "no star" rating schemes is that they add more complexity without necessarily giving a corresponding benefit. Allowing people to give normal ratings when bailing out of an arc isn't perfect but it's good enough, particularly if you don't think anything which is touched by users can ever be truly perfect.
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If this were a perfect world where everyone played fair and was honest, it would be good enough. But there are griefers out there, and they will 1 star all the time. Will the 'horrible' flag fix this? Not entirely, but in my earlier post I said that the 'horrible' flag would be removed with enough good star ratings, and if a player put the flag on too many arcs that ended up being rated well they would have that privilege removed.
Is it perfect? No. Is there a better solution? Probably. But this -could- work, assuming it doesn't too much effort on the dev's part.
The other day I was on a mission where I had to defeat Lord Recluse and, My question is, will I be able to select this mission map------> http://borgking001a.deviantart.com/a...Days-114790181
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Here's another test case.
Someone writes a five issue arc. He puts a ton of content into it, and builds everything extremely well. His biggest failing is he writes too much -- his mission acceptance text is three screens, his clues are all huge, but for the person who actually reads it, it turns out to be beautiful and poignant.
Let's say in this hypothetical that he does this so well that essentially every person who completes the fifth mission finds himself in tears, and every last one of them five-stars the arc. It is, in the end, a triumph.
But 200 people who launch into the arc see a big block of text to start with, snort, think "oh, no way," and drop the arc, one-starring it with the attitude of 'tl;dr.'
Should those 200 people, who didn't even try to make it through the opening text -- who didn't even read it -- get the same weight in their reviews to the 200 people who went through the whole arc and breathlessly 5-star it? Does it really deserve an aggregate 3 stars when half the people didn't spend more than three seconds on the opening screen?
If we assume this arc was 5 missions long, and assume a weighted vote based upon number of missions started, that would mean the 1-star votes by the people who never went through the front door would be worth 20% of a full vote, whereas the 5-star folks would be worth the full vote each. So, at 400 people rating the arc, with 200 not having done anything in the missions and ranking it the worst ad 200 having done all 5 missions and ranking it the best, the average rank at the end is 4.3 stars. Assuming this rounds down for being below 4.5 (not a safe assumption -- we don't know how they're going to round these things), that would have the arc rated 4 stars at the 400 player mark. A player looking for a good arc would see that and think it might be worth a chance, whereas the 3 the arc would get before would make it hopelessly average.
At the same time, if these trends continued to 1000 players, then there would still be enough nay votes to keep it out of the Hall of Fame -- which means that the half who refused to play it at all would have their opinions registered and noted, rather than disenfranchising them.
It's a pretty simplistic example, but hopefully an illustrative one.
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Well, personally something with too much text probably wouldn't get a 5 from me 
But otherwise yes, I agree with you. Someone who actually played the whole arc has a more valid opinion on the whole arc than someone who didn't last a single mission, since they actually played the arc, so why should their scores give an equal rating?
I just hate the idea of a system where a fantastic arc might get some terrible early scores because of a minor issue at the start, which instantly means the arc is dead to most people because to most people a low score will mean a bad arc as opposed to something with something that bothered people in the first story.
[ QUOTE ][*] Players create content in game through a computer terminal within one of the Architect Entertainment buildings. Architect Entertainment is the name of an in-game company thats developed this type of simulated experience for heroes and villains of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. You can think of this like a holo-deck or a simulated mission tool. Players go to these facilities that are spread through out most of our zones and interact with a computer that walks through the creation process. Here is where they pick all of their options for a mission as well as write all the dialog and build their custom characters. Once theyve gotten their story together, they can test it out and see how it plays. Once theyve gotten it perfect, they can publish the story up to our Arc Server. This server is cross shard and cross game. So, any content published will be seen by everyone on every server, regardless of where they play.
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Here's my little beef about this system (from the Blue side perspective). I don't really care for the "entertainment" or Holo-deck explanation for this tool. If I'm role playing, would a hero actually go to a store and make a "simulated" game for other heroes to play? This doesn't seem to really fit into the general theme of the game-- fighting bad guys-- not simulated bad guys.
Basically, I'm playing a game (COH), where my character makes a game (Simulator) for another gamer to play? I don't get it.
My suggestion for the back story for the mission architect would be the following:
Evil is spreading faster than our contacts can deal with the problems. Hero Corps requests all heroes of Paragon to identify and defeat all signs of evil, even the new threats that our present contacts do not know about. If you come across a new threat (IE the one you build in the mission architect creator) enter it into the "mission Architect" computer and hopefully other heroes can help in defeating these ever-growing threats.
Even if you don't know of new evil threats, check the "mission Architect" computer for wrongdoing to stop. (e.g. playing other players' missions)
I just don't think we need to build into the lore of COH that players build simulated missions. For example, if the missions are "simulated" why would you receive merits and/or salvage?
Does anyone else think like this?
PS: I love the idea; I'm just not fond of the backstory justifying the mission architect.
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There's a small chance that a Red name will contradict me, but I'm pretty sure that they will retain all rights, just as they do to the characters you create in COX.
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/this
If you have personal attachments to your arcs, or think they might make a great story or novel or webcomic sometime, then use loosely shifted variations in the MA. I'm creating all new characters and organizations, just against the possibility that the personal material I'm otherwise referencing (some of which I've published) might be useful to me elsewhere down the line.
Besides, it's fun to come up with new things.
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It's not hard to tweak something enough that it's different anyway. Take the character in your head, modify the background, change the surname, maybe a different hair colour and boom, different person
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The other day I was on a mission where I had to defeat Lord Recluse and, My question is, will I be able to select this mission map------> http://borgking001a.deviantart.com/a...Days-114790181
[/ QUOTE ]The devs have mentioned "unlocking" maps and other aspects of MA. I suspect that means that some of the really kewl maps (such as the one you linked) may not be available to you until you either buy them via tickets or meet some other prerequisite.
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Just for fun, here are some numbers.
The devs said you need to average 5 stars, but they will round up. So if you get one 4 star and one 5 star, that would be 9 stars over two ratings, for an average of 4.5. Rounded up, that's 5. So...
For each 4 star rating, you need ONE 5 star rating to keep your 5 star average.
For each 3 star rating, you need THREE 5 star ratings.
For each 2 star rating, you need FIVE 5 star ratings.
For each 1 star rating, you need SEVEN 5 star ratings to keep your 5 star average.
Unless people are feeling very generous, I don't think we're going to see all that many arcs in the Hall of Fame. Any rating other than 5 is a vote against Hall of Fame status.
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Slight disagreement in your sums. If they're rounding up, 4.1 becomes 5. So I believe I'm right in saying a 1 rating would need four 5 ratings.
And even if they've said that, I wouldn't be suprised if it isn't a hard rule. If an arc is averaging 4 but is getting very good marks in general and has been played by a huge number of people, I wouldn't be suprised if that made it in even if it's ratings are lower.
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I asked directly about public comments with our ratings, and told:
"There are no public comments available. It has been considered but will not be in for release."
Bummer.
Well, it's pretty obvious that this is a highly desired feature, so we can only hope they will implement it later.
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Awww 
For me, this makes ratings not being equally weighted more important.
Are ambushes possible? Can our heroes leave a door mission and get attacked by our custom villains in an ambush?
Suriel- Scrapper MA/SR
Star Centurion- Peacebringer
War Forger- Blaster EB/Devices
Dedjinn- Stalker CL/DA
Cycnus- Mastermind Mercs/Traps
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Here's my little beef about this system (from the Blue side perspective). I don't really care for the "entertainment" or Holo-deck explanation for this tool. If I'm role playing, would a hero actually go to a store and make a "simulated" game for other heroes to play? This doesn't seem to really fit into the general theme of the game-- fighting bad guys-- not simulated bad guys.
Basically, I'm playing a game (COH), where my character makes a game (Simulator) for another gamer to play? I don't get it.
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My take on the Architect is that the things we simulate can become real. Almost every single arc I have planned will be written to fit into the CoX backstory with the hope that it gets into the canon.
I don't think the Devs have fully divined the creativity of a significant portion of the playerbase. I wouldn't be surprised to see the first "Third Tier" Story Arc be declared within a month of Issue 14's release, if there isn't already a few Arcs worthy of it among the 400+ that are already being tested.
I don't plan on writing simulated content for people to play through a simulator, I plan on writing content that will change the game world. 
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Are ambushes possible? Can our heroes leave a door mission and get attacked by our custom villains in an ambush?
[/ QUOTE ]I saw a dev statement that ambushes are not allowed. Since the screenshots show the option for in-mission ambushes, I can only assume he meant no ambushes outside the mission instance.
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Are ambushes possible? Can our heroes leave a door mission and get attacked by our custom villains in an ambush?
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We have been led to believe that it all happens in the Architect Entertainment building, rather than out in the world. Someone may make an arc with Vic Johannson as the Contact, but an image of Vic will appear and grant the missions, which will lead you to doors within the building. You won't be going to King's Row to Vic, so you will never be outisde to receive an ambush.
In mission ambushes? Yes. In between mission ambushes? No.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
One thing I'm a little curious about with the Dev's Choice entries. Will they show which dev picked it? It would be great to see which dev has what tastes.
Though that may or may not be a good idea, as getting picked by BaBs might be seen as having more weight than being picked by random non red-named dev #12.
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Just for fun, here are some numbers.
The devs said you need to average 5 stars, but they will round up. So if you get one 4 star and one 5 star, that would be 9 stars over two ratings, for an average of 4.5. Rounded up, that's 5. So...
For each 4 star rating, you need ONE 5 star rating to keep your 5 star average.
For each 3 star rating, you need THREE 5 star ratings.
For each 2 star rating, you need FIVE 5 star ratings.
For each 1 star rating, you need SEVEN 5 star ratings to keep your 5 star average.
Unless people are feeling very generous, I don't think we're going to see all that many arcs in the Hall of Fame. Any rating other than 5 is a vote against Hall of Fame status.
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Slight disagreement in your sums. If they're rounding up, 4.1 becomes 5. So I believe I'm right in saying a 1 rating would need four 5 ratings.
And even if they've said that, I wouldn't be suprised if it isn't a hard rule. If an arc is averaging 4 but is getting very good marks in general and has been played by a huge number of people, I wouldn't be suprised if that made it in even if it's ratings are lower.
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Maybe. I was assuming 4.5 and up, but it could be 4.00001. We'll see. Personally, I would be very surprised if it was not a hard rule. The dev choice is going to be fuzzy and subjective. Hall of Fame will probably just be pure math: add up the ratings, divide by the raters, compare.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Were granting full experience (XP) and influence rewards for defeating enemies in player made content. Were also giving players tickets in place of random drops. They can take these tickets to an Architect ticket vendor and redeem them for various in game rewards, such as enhancements, recipes and salvage.
[/ QUOTE ] This just seems like an easier way to PL/Farm influence...Making a map how ever big they want. Making certain foes being as easy as they want. Can anyone say new Family Farm? This way someone does not have to do those annoying arcs too, could just start off with a farm, or if someone needs a badge they could simpley just put that foe in their and just farm it over and over again.
QR
So I looked thru the thread and couldn't find an answer to this - are we able to make continuation missions? Ones where, when you complete a mission, the next is automatically selected without having to return to the contact?
Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, I've been reading as much as I can and don't remember this in particular.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Who hasnt dreamed of making their own video game and sharing it with the world?
Very cool on a grass roots level, I think this will flourish.
I for one (I for one denotes the following as a personal opinion) would rather be doing something more productive/rewarding with my creativity and downtime than mindlessly crafting or grinding. Stoked.
Couple things,
#1) Can NPCs within a mission have names even if they are taken?
#2) Will Mission names have to be unique?
#3) Will a full and unlocked costume generator with all costume pieces and weapon choices that we see in the game (PC and NPC, Hero and Villain) be available to create with?
#4) Are the maps fully customizable from scratch, or are their templates?
#5) Will there be the ability to design the interiors (and exteriors?) of the missions down to the granular level that the current Base designer allows?
#6) Player created music a future MA enhancement consideration?