Issue 14: Architect Discussion

Sweet! Although I wasn;t at Hero Conm, nice to hear things are progressing well!

FARN.

---

COMING SOON: A new Epic that will change the way you see Arachnos...
Brought to you by @Equation

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*wonders how many more free trailers for the game she has to make to qualify for permanent closed beta access*

[/ QUOTE ]
i wonder what makes you think you are entitled to something more than the rest of the playerbase

your videos are pretty good, but they do little to show the features of the new issues in action

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, at least you're true to your name, D_C. I feel so much better now.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And by the way, rednames, where's YOUR trailer for Issue 14?! Come on, how am I supposed to know what my benchmark is?


[/ QUOTE ]

Look down, its obviously beneath you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Cat.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite]

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO con attendees are still getting a pass in beta? I thought that was only for i13- but I could be wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero Con attendees will be getting into Issue 14's Beta "Soon"...fuzzy date is that by this time next week Hero Con attendees (+ some additional folks) will be in the Closed Beta. It may be sooner, but within a week.

That's as close of an update that I'm allowed to give right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much obliged for the heads-up, G_F.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

---

I had this question on my mind for a while, and since I'd like to keep this thread alive a little bit longer:

What maps, levels, landscapes would you NOT want people to use, excessively?
EX: If I never have to do a claustophobic cave mish again, I'll be happy.
I hear some people hate shadow shard maps
And personally, I can't stand council maps.

---

NCSOFT may take away our servers and beloved dev team, but they can't break our spirit and community. with all your power, NCSOFT, your victory will be bitter-sweet. I, personally will be there to laugh at you when you face-plant into the ground.

I got used to the Caves after a short while. The Council Maps took waaaayyyyyy longer, but it happened much to my surprise.

I got to say the Maps I dislike the most would be the CoT Temple Maps. I dislike the Arachnoid version of Caves. Some of the Tech bases with multiple Vators on each level can be a pain if it's a clear all Mish, and you missed one straggler, (But I intend to use that one, lol).

I've gotten used to the different Maps, for the most part. But, I have a feeling alot of peeps will use the more unliked/hard to navigate maps just for an added edge of aggrovation/difficulty.

---

Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO con attendees are still getting a pass in beta? I thought that was only for i13- but I could be wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero Con attendees will be getting into Issue 14's Beta "Soon"...fuzzy date is that by this time next week Hero Con attendees (+ some additional folks) will be in the Closed Beta. It may be sooner, but within a week.

That's as close of an update that I'm allowed to give right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not, I repeat...DO NOT invite me to Beta...unless you really want to

---

Personally, I'm curious how they're going to present all this player-made content without it seeming overwhelming or greatly diluting of the existing content.

I guess we'll find out in a month or two. In the meanwhile, I suspect this whole Issue 14 thing is a waste of time they should be using to convert the existing assets into a masterwork of dynamic flow that would simultaneously bring together the separate parts of PvP, super group bases, and other assets that are currently languishing.

It's a difference of philosophy, really. Personally, I think of MMORPGs in terms of being enclosed systems which direct players towards more comprehensively enjoyable gameplay. This Architect concept is thinking of City of Heroes in terms of being a launchpad for player-made content. I don't think it will end well. There'll be a few fun missions made by the few players with the time and patience to see them through, but ultimately it's going to stretch out the system in artificial tangents that will hurt more than help. Like over-expansion, but without as much organization behind its conception.

But, again, I really don't have any idea how this thing is being bolted together. Maybe there's a really slick implementation that prevents my worries of overexpansion from manifesting. One really nice thing about the Architect concept is that it's quite unique in the MMORPG genre. The kind of changes I would likely want to make would cause a lot more alienation amongst the playerbase.

---

[ QUOTE ]
The kind of changes I would likely want to make would cause a lot more alienation amongst the playerbase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I gather that they're not doing that.

---

Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So uh where are these new boards we were told about in I13 BETA?

[/ QUOTE ]
They're still there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that.

They just made it seem that after I13 would launch the new boards would be released soon...

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The kind of changes I would likely want to make would cause a lot more alienation amongst the playerbase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I gather that they're not doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe. None of us have a bug under the developer's break room table understanding what their true motivations are.

To a great extent, Architect strikes me as a step in the direction of trying to make the game self-sustaining. It may be that they anticipate there won't be a lot of developers generating content for City of Heroes soon so, before they move on, they're adding the capacity for players to generate content themselves. It might well be that the game is being put out to pasture, and they decided this would be a very ambitious way to go about it.

My preference - sweeping changes to integrate a number of existing elements better - would have treated City of Heroes as an ongoing project. I don't like how the broke stays broken: the cathedral of pain, PvP, an end game. However, if the game is simply being put out to pasture with self-sustaining features, at least the current players won't feel alienated.

---

One advantage to Architect is new playable content. I know on Villains, alot of folks would rather power-level a new toon to 50 than play the same old Story-Arcs they have played numerous times.

This may or may not be true for Heroes Side. I've spent little time on Blue Side, so can't comment there.

With the recent release of the game on Mac, and the promises that the Aniversary Issue 15 is going to be big, I kind of doubt they are putting the game out to pasture.

At least I hope that is not their intent.

---

Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The kind of changes I would likely want to make would cause a lot more alienation amongst the playerbase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I gather that they're not doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe. None of us have a bug under the developer's break room table understanding what their true motivations are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. There are much better places for the bugs than under the break room table.

.... Sorry, just had an idea for a Stalker/Stealth mission where you have to sneak in and plant bugs in an office, and had to write it down.

Anyway, I very much doubt they'll be dropping the effort they put into this game any time soon. A new version/game engine would be more likely.

---

"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me

@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn

I wait in evil anticipation...eager, i meant eager anticipation.

---

Geldon: It seems to me that CoX has its greatest strength in player customization and ownership over content, and that the Mission Architect is intended to expand on that strength.

Think of it like stock options. Instead of turning employees into owners, the MA and other customization features turn players and subscribers into authors and creators. Big bonus to retention and level of engagement.

I think that it's a good step towards making CoX stand out from other MMOs with much larger teams behind them.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*wonders how many more free trailers for the game she has to make to qualify for permanent closed beta access*

[/ QUOTE ]
i wonder what makes you think you are entitled to something more than the rest of the playerbase

your videos are pretty good, but they do little to show the features of the new issues in action

[/ QUOTE ]

Until you do something better, kindly stuff it.

Her I14 teaser made me want I14 more than anything released before.

---

What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?

PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes

[ QUOTE ]
In the meanwhile, I suspect this whole Issue 14 thing is a waste of time they should be using to convert the existing assets into a masterwork of dynamic flow that would simultaneously bring together the separate parts of PvP, super group bases, and other assets that are currently languishing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Different people want different things from this game. Personally, I wouldn't get much use from PvP or base updates. But the Mission Architect is something I'll happily play with for hours and hours.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*wonders how many more free trailers for the game she has to make to qualify for permanent closed beta access*

[/ QUOTE ]
i wonder what makes you think you are entitled to something more than the rest of the playerbase

your videos are pretty good, but they do little to show the features of the new issues in action

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder what makes you think *you* have any place to talk.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'm curious how they're going to present all this player-made content without it seeming overwhelming or greatly diluting of the existing content.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see it diluting existing content.

The "Overwhelming," though - that I could see as, potentially, an issue. I think the published arc limit is a tentative step towards controlling that - with three arcs per account, even the most prolific creator is going to have to sit and consider strongly what they want published - which in theory could give them time to polish more.

Honestly, I see a lot of opportunity in the Architect. If, say, a host of DA missions come up and stay there, it would probably guide the devs into considering the zone for new content or a makeover. Or a "501st" could happen, where a piece of player-made lore (or player explored) becomes official. I don't see it happening *often,* and Devs Choice selections should not be confused with "Official canon," but I see the possibility.

Plus, to me, it's an extension of how the devs are with the playerbase anyway. They talk here, more freely typically than other dev teams (where you speak through an "official representative" - imagine everything going through, say, Niviene, instead of getting replies from Castle, BABs and the crew) - and now they get to see what *we* see and can do with their world, and give feedback as well.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Sweet! Although I wasn;t at Hero Conm, nice to hear things are progressing well!

FARN.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah things have been running to soothly lately.

TIME TO BREAK SOME CODE!

---

----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.

[ QUOTE ]

The "Overwhelming," though - that I could see as, potentially, an issue. I think the published arc limit is a tentative step towards controlling that - with three arcs per account, even the most prolific creator is going to have to sit and consider strongly what they want published - which in theory could give them time to polish more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking much the same from the folks wanting to focus on high quality arcs. Or perhaps a lot of incremental "upgrades" to previously published arcs as they get more proficient and tweak the designs, taking down old arcs and replacing them with newer versions.

I'm also thinking that there's great opertunity for new versions of SG's with focus on collaborative Architec designing, sharing tips and tricks within the groups. Perhaps a chance for the really polished and prolific designers to 'hire out' or team up with other folks to publish more of their ideas in arcs outside of the three they can post personally.

It would also be kind of cool if the Devs could award "bonus slots" to designers that achieve certain thresholds of popular arc, most run, selected for Dev notice, etc. If such developers are really that good at producing arcs the rest of the player base likes to see, why not give them a bit of a larger stage to dispay their talents?


[ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I see a lot of opportunity in the Architect. If, say, a host of DA missions come up and stay there, it would probably guide the devs into considering the zone for new content or a makeover. Or a "501st" could happen, where a piece of player-made lore (or player explored) becomes official. I don't see it happening *often,* and Devs Choice selections should not be confused with "Official canon," but I see the possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The Dev's routinely data mine the game now in various ways to help in "tuning" the engine and developing content. If there were a way to find "Most played" or "best liked" (votes?) for MA runs, I'm sure that would be another great flag for the Devs in prioritizing and weighting their development decissions.

And, as you say, they're already putting in place the ability to select arcs as developer's choices. Surely those can't but help to influence ideas and direction in future game content.

One thing, though. I participate in several writer's boards. Sometimes folks come upon a story that makes readers say "Why isn't this dude published yet?" Unfortunately, for every one of those, there are TONS of others that are absolutely painful to read.

MA is likely to fit that paradigm as well. And reviewing the arcs probably won't be as simple as skimming a story first to see if you want to shelve it or go back for a deeper read. I pity the Dev crew who get the job of running through MA content to come up with "best of" Dev decisions. Hmm.... perhaps there's an opening for "interns" there to pre-screen those?


[ QUOTE ]
Plus, to me, it's an extension of how the devs are with the playerbase anyway. They talk here, more freely typically than other dev teams (where you speak through an "official representative" - imagine everything going through, say, Niviene, instead of getting replies from Castle, BABs and the crew) - and now they get to see what *we* see and can do with their world, and give feedback as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed whole heartedly!

---

We are not old, so long as we continue to chase our dreams.

[ QUOTE ]
It would also be kind of cool if the Devs could award "bonus slots" to designers that achieve certain thresholds of popular arc, most run, selected for Dev notice, etc. If such developers are really that good at producing arcs the rest of the player base likes to see, why not give them a bit of a larger stage to dispay their talents?

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely think that people who have arcs "blessed" should be encouraged to produce more arcs, even though they might still be restricted to having only 3 "published but unblessed" arcs at a time.

---

@Mindshadow

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would also be kind of cool if the Devs could award "bonus slots" to designers that achieve certain thresholds of popular arc, most run, selected for Dev notice, etc. If such developers are really that good at producing arcs the rest of the player base likes to see, why not give them a bit of a larger stage to dispay their talents?

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely think that people who have arcs "blessed" should be encouraged to produce more arcs, even though they might still be restricted to having only 3 "published but unblessed" arcs at a time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dev and Peoples choices will be moved out of the published slots, freeing one up, as I recall.

No word on what other rewards might be.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*wonders how many more free trailers for the game she has to make to qualify for permanent closed beta access*

[/ QUOTE ]
i wonder what makes you think you are entitled to something more than the rest of the playerbase

your videos are pretty good, but they do little to show the features of the new issues in action

[/ QUOTE ]

Until you do something better, kindly stuff it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you. My first inclination in responding was to use a variant on "stuff" for my response to that comment, only with, you know, some of the letters rearranged. And the redundancy trimmed.

D_R has been nothing but awesome for this game. I can't wait to see what she comes up with next.

---

My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

[ QUOTE ]
D_R has been nothing but awesome for this game

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

---

I'm a sad sad little super spy.

---

Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."