Live Feedback: Issue 13 : Bases -- Rent & Editing
By
11915090,
Posted on: 2008-12-12 16:40 in Developers' Corner
Objective: When attempting to place a wall-attached object, some walls will allow vertical movement and others will not. Moving the cursor up and down on a "restrictive" wall will simply result in a red "not here" cursor and the blue box remaining where it was above or below it. Moving the same object to a "permissive" wall, then adjusting its vertical position, then moving it back to the "restrictive" wall is a workaround.
Subjective: Despite the joy of being able to make complex objects by overlapping complex objects, interacting with them afterwards can be difficult if they're positioned in such a way that clicking on them creates an ambiguity (e.g., putting two storage bins in the same space can cause problems with accessing one or the other). It's also disconcerting when used to "snap to grid" placement that prevented such overlap the first time I dragged one storage bin on top of another expecting the second to simply lock in place next to the first and ended up putting it half-inside another object. A "snap to grid" feature that could be enabled might be nice.
Kristy
All Subjective:
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[*] All Supergroup Base room prices and Prestige costs have been rebalanced.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[*] Rent has been substantially changed. Rent is no longer charged on a per-plot basis and is instead charged on a per-item basis for certain specific items.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hate having to pay rent now and don't think it is the least bit fair that my tiny little apartment is the same rent as big huge SG complexes. I do not think the new rent structure is either fair or "realistic" I never read the posts where the rent structure was discussed, but this was a bad idea. Hate hate hate!
[ QUOTE ]
[*] Refunds for Base Plots, Base Rooms, and Base items will be issued if the price has changed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Didn't get any refunds in mine.
[ QUOTE ]
[*] Removed all raiding related restrictions on placing items in a base. Specifically, items may now intersect and or completely block door to door paths or door to item paths. This change will allow much greater freedom in placing objects in your base.
[/ QUOTE ]
Something broke when you did this. The AI for base editing has gotten much worse. Items don't drag and drop where they are supposed to. Placement of things is excessively more difficult. I lost 3 teleport pads that I built prior to I13 becuase the new AI wouldn't let me move them around and they disappeared into empty space - no prestige or expended salvage returned for the loss. 
If I give you that prestige back from the price changes, can I have the old AI back? oh wait, I didn't get any.... and if I did, I could use it for rent. Nevermind.
205723: A Different DESTINY
When Soldiers of Arachnos got their names added to the Destiny List, Longbow managed to get a copy of the list and began rounding villains up. But one name on the list shocked them...
Objective: As Kristy Tracer stated above, the South and West walls do not allow placement of objects directly next to them anymore. While there are workarounds to get Wall Details put up on those walls, they are not actually up against the walls, but instead floating out (the same width of the trim, curiously). I suspect this will be a bug with the no-things-in-doors-or-inside-walls pathing rules that were implemented after the general raid-pathing rules were removed.
Subjective: My experience with the new base changes have been overall positive -- I love the new ability to stack off the floor, off walls, and off ceilings.
Objective: On the downside, my base now has so many decorative objects in it that I get a lot of lag when in the Base Editor (presumably because it loads every single object in the base instead of obeying normal 'draw distance' rules (for good reason)). But this is, for the most part, a happy problem.
Objective Feedback :
Increasing base rent on players with the 8X8 plot size to anything above zero (bases had no rent) is not a dramatic decrease in base rent. It is an increase.
I agree with the other poster about not being able to place things on some walls and only being able to place them at floor level, but I think that this had already been addressed somewhere.
Because the base salvage racks were converted to IO salvage racks and all the base salvage and components needs to be converted to IO salvage, I am putting more IO salvage racks into my bases.
The conversion process and the time consume by the process of trying to adapt to the new system has put a stop to me using empowerment stations when I team - run or play on one. With all my character jumping and checking out the different servers and archetypes, I have to try to keep things fairly regimented. And that means when something like this happens, I have to work to knock out one kind of task all at once so that I can do it more efficiently.
I was caught in a base rent loop that other players have been caught in. Basically, the base portal says you can't get in because rent is due, and, when you go to City Hall, the Rep says you don't owe any rent - but you go back to to the base portal and it won't let you in because you owe base rent. I'm not sure about the other people with this issue, but I know for the first occurrence of this that I ran into - it was because I didn't owe any base rent. The base rent was still zero after the conversion. The only thing in the base that could have possibly have triggered this is having a warehouse room. However, it only had an IO crafting station in it - which is supposed to be rent free. It seem like it was acting like a logic loop to me with the base saying pay the rent, and city hall saying you can't pay the rent because it is zero - since you can't pay zero, you still owe base rent. I /petitioned this after several days and was able to get into my base as /bug reporting it wasn't doing any good.
I'm a bit concerned about what will happen if the overlapping placement of objects is a bug. I can stick two IO Salvage racks so that they are halfway into each other and access one or the other by clicking on the opposite sides. I don't know what will happen if this was not intentional to allow additional items that are within the limits of the room side of the room as they would not fit due to the geometry before. If this is a bug, please give people warnings so that they can try to fix it. I think that there is a lot of overlapping of objects going on. Some are apparently using it to make base features.
Subjective Feedback :
I'm glad that I didn't have to tear my bases apart and rebuild them to be able to get the prestige refund.
I may be wrong, but I think that there are far more bases now that have to pay base rent that didn't, than there are bases that had to pay rent before. I'm not saying it was bad to lower the base rent for those larger bases. I'm saying why charge the little guy when the weren't charged before?
Some players don't seem to understand that the new way that base items by the use of IO salvage is actually simpler than the old system. I think this is partially because it wasn't "sold" that way; it seems to me it was just presented as "we are getting rid of base salvage and components". The need/ability to convert old base salvage and components to brain storm ideas in order to convert them to IO Salvage added to the confusion. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good idea to implement the change in this manner. I'm just pointing out that better presentation of what was going on could have gone a long way.
The manner in which items can bet placed together to provide surfaces for stacking seems to be unnecessarily complicated. I think that this also should have better documentation. Sure there are threads about doing this, but, when I read them, I have to say - where was that said anywhere else officially? how would someone know that you could do that? How do you even accidentally find out how to make a magic desk? Someone must know somewhere something more than is being said. I'm not blaming anyone to figure it out, but it seems like a lot of witch-doctory necessary to get the end result. Maybe I just haven't tinkered with it enough.
I've seen some really cool bases made when things are stackable.
Base IO Salvage storage cap seems a bit low, but I can understand the need to check the effect on the market before raising the cap. This will be very useful in sharing IO salvage between characters.
-I'm too tired at this point to think clearly enough about this. I will try to think about it some more and post again as I am able.
I wasn't a fan of the new rent change at first. Paying rent on bases that had previously been free seemed potentially disastrous.
In play though the size of the rent is proving to be small enough that even the SGs that I have which are played in very rarely (read: once ever 6 months or so), don't seem like they'll be impossible to keep up with.
I do think that pricing on rooms and objects for a basic level base could stand to be reduced a lot further however, but that stems from a desire to have a solo SG for a few of my alts, which may be contrary to the design philosophy.
One key change that's related to this and making it less irksome by the way? The change to costumes where each one tracks SG mode colors differently. That makes it less aggravating to be in SG mode and use the group colors, hence easier to earn prestige, and therefor easier to afford the current modest rents.
"Striving for the impossible" doesn't mean "toiling in vain". It means growth. It means improvement in the direction of your ideals. Not futility.
Erfworld: the Battle for Gobwin Knob
i like the new costs,as yo can see by my sig i am the only person in my sg/vg,i was able to "finish" my sg base with the lower costs,and my vg base is a lot farther on,but it was a shock to now have to pay rent, but i only pay 600 per so that is no proble ,1 itf at lvl 50 in sg mode pays that, i have not decorated my base much as I was only building functions like tps, almost wish there was a visitor mode, where we can open out bases to let other playees see but not touch our bases, it would be a good way to trade ideas.we could even have some kind of visitor counter and suggestin box for the visitors,as it now usally i am the only one who sees it
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
Paying rent for a base that is worse off now then it was almost a month ago is adding insult to injury.
Regardless of if it is supposedly "miniscule, or a paltry amount," it is paying for nothing.
Remove rent altogether, and let us pay for the things we want to put in the base.
Fix the structural issues, and the stacking problem, then come back and bother me about paying rent for anything.
Don't charge rent unless there is a reason for it.
If I was finding a secretary, or I had a gang of ninjas coming in and tearing up my base every once in awhile, I could see a reason for it. Other then the fact that I pay for the pretty blue column, I don't see the reason behind paying anything for the bases.
Subjective:
While the change to Salvage racks to let them hold Invention Salvage is nice, it sort of screws over anyone who held more than just Base Salvage in them.
Myself and a number of people I've talked to about this all had a large amount of Halloween and other non-base salvage stored in the racks, and now we suddenly have no room for it anymore. Some people I know have a few hundred pieces of this salvage stored up, which means buying extra salvage racks isn't really a feasible solution.
It's been suggested to us to simply have a character carry it all around with them, but then it no longer becomes accessible to the rest of the SG unless that specific character is logged in.
Please give us back a means to hold our non-base, non-invention salvage, because it all no longer fits in the place we kept it in.
Also, why aren't Brain Storm Ideas storeable? Base salvage was easily shareable amongst all members of the SG; why is it converted into something that isn't easily shared?
Two wrongs don't make a right. However, three rights make a left.
L00k, w3'r3 r3f0rmed! W3'v3 g0t l1v3s n0w, 4nd 1'm 4 buz1n3ss Pwnz0r! -Reformed Freak Proprieter
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Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls. Rularuu.
My feedback on bases is all subjective.
First, although it's water under the bridge and I know we're not going back now...the removal of base salvage makes no sense whatsoever, and was not well implemented. In an attempt for, as we were told, "simplicity", a new form of salvage was created (brainstorms), hundreds of convert recipes were created, storage was greatly reduced meaning that event salvage overflows in many bases, all base crafting and empowerment station recipes have been tripled, and the providing of salvage for bases has gone from something the whole group contributes to, to something the base architect has to provide from his own pocket. (Yes, theoretically everyone could contribute...but how many is that happening.) With all the issues facing bases, THIS is what they spend their time on? And apparently no one thought of the side issues of event salvage, or the way people used the conversion of invention salvage to base salvage for the crafter badges. It's a done deal, we're stuck with it, but it was a bad idea, and very poorly handled. If you'd talked to us about it before it was a fait accomplis, maybe we'd understand, and could have helped deal with the side effects and craft a better solution. This change, and even more so the way it was handled, has cost NCNC a lot of goodwill with me.
Next, there's rent. On a purely personal level, POWER being my main group, the reduction of rent is nice. However, I also run some groups of rarely-used players with a small base that owed no rent. They now will be charged rent. And because they are rarely used, they'll likely find bases shut off, and with the bugs where bases get into a 'you can't get in because you owe rent' but the SG registrar says 'you don't owe rent' requiring a petition...the time it takes to get it fixed will mean that the bases are now useless (because when those rarely played characters are played, it's for a short time).
Furthermore...what is the purpose of rent, from a game design standpoint? It used to be both a limit on excessive growth (you can't put every bit of prestige into the base without looking at the rent costs) and an incentive to keep active and have everyone contribute to keep the SG going. It was overly burdensome, particularly for large groups, but at least there was an identifiable reason for it. The reduction to being based on plot size greatly reduced the burden, and made it easier for small groups to get going. The I13 rent is so trivial that, at least if you have a few 50s in your group willing to run in SG mode, it might as well not exist. Now, it's only an annoyance for large groups, sending someone to atlas park or port oakes periodically to click on a man to keep it going. And for small SGs where the rent went up, again it's not the amount that's the issue, but that people have to periodically pay the rent--and if people don't play in that SG that often, the base may find itself shut down.
Goals and motivations are good, it's why we play games, to do stuff in the game. Annoyances aren't, they are interruptions in the game. Rent is too small to be a goal or motivation, and the process of paying rent is an annoyance. Either rent should be increased...or eliminated. If you increase the rent, it shouldn't be based on things like storage...and the very small groups shouldn't be hit by it. If you don't think you can eliminate, at least reduce the annoyance...give us an option to have the rent paid automatically when it is due (presuming there is sufficient prestige).
Pricing changes...appreciated and particularly the refund. Though I think there was one area missed...the second step towards growing a base. The one where you go from an oversight center to separate energy and control rooms, with the basic purchasable power unit and control units. Having taken a few groups over that step (and having had other groups stall out at it), lowering that step would be great.
One last thing, and in many ways, it's all of those. It's what an ex-president would call "the vision thing". Does NCNC have a vision about what bases should be, and if so, can you express it? From the cheap seats, it looks like you started with a vision of "bases are for PVP in raiding" and when that didn't work you, you've sort of been muddling along, tweaking things based on feedback and what you saw as problems. If you do have a vision, it doesn't show. Clearly, you want PVP to be part of what bases are, and while it has promise, it's not going to be the whole, or even the majority, of what the players want from bases. So...what does a big SG do with its base, what should be the experience with it. How about a small SG, say 8 people who team together once a week (or so). From the vision, flows questions of price, rent, security and permissions (much of the base design is based on big SGs...except the storage permission system really only fits the small SG). Bases are a fun and useful addition to the game, it deserves some direction and coherence.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Objective feedback.
I'll echo the comments about wall placement of items.
Also, I have a split chat window (basically the default) which mysteriously has the horizontal divider dragged down from the middle mysteriously about 25% of the time after I exit the base editor. It's a strange and mostly harmless bug, but I'm really ... anal about my GUI layout and so it gets under my skin.
As for my subjective feedback, I think GadgetDon summed up my thoughts on rent very well. I don't mean to seem ungrateful and I too think that "treadmill" type goals have a meaningful place in games like this, but I do question the current rent level.
I love the new more free rules for placing items, and I'm not even much of a base builder. Please make sure you keep this as you move forward with your work on bases.
Do please look into more formal support for stacking of especially decorative items. It seems nonsensical to me that I can't place a collection of books, a phone or some glass bottles on, say, a SG computer or SG meeting table without playing games with desks. Ideally, any solid object should be a valid surface for other (decorative) items to be placed on.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Thanks to the cheaper prices, I was able to expand my two multiplayer bases significantly. They didn't have rent to pay before, but they do now. Since I have several characters in each group and I play them regularly, paying the cheap rent for those two bases is no big deal.
I love the change to object pathing in the bases. I can now put teleporter beacons right next to the teleporters, rather than finding other walls to put them on. I can merge objects together, creating some nifty effects. For example, just today I buried a couple torches in a floor dome, leaving just the flames emerging out of the dome.
On the downside, there is a rent problem, despite the cheap values. If I want storage racks or empowerment stations in my small, single character bases, I need to go pay rent. It's not that much of an effort to travel to Atlas Park or Port Oakes to pay the rent a few times a month... but doing that 39 times a month would be very annoying. Most players don't have anywhere near that many bases, so I probably shouldn't expect my personal issues to infuence things. It does reduce the functionality of many of my bases, though, since I need to have most of my bases remain rent free.
Because of the changes, I think the limit to the number of storage items should be raised. We had a limit of 18, with salvage racks that could store thousands. Now we have the same limit, with salvage racks that store 30.
Subjective: The pathing changes are great. The changes allow you to make much more interesting bases, and to pack many more items into each room of a base by making multilevel bases.
A friend in my supergroup has completely redone the base and made a lot of cool new rooms. By stacking floor safes he has managed to make an impressive array of innovative designs.
However, when I tried doing this myself in another base on another server I quickly abandoned the attempt. I simply don't have the patience to fiddle with stacking desks and safes and the finicky behavior of the placement of items.
Example: I tried to place four teleport beacons on the wall behind the arcane teleporters. Using the design on the wall as a guide I tried to put the beacons at the same height (after moving the teleporters away from the wall). Grouping them two by two, I was unable to get all four to place at the same height. The selection box would turn red for no apparent reason. I could get each pair of adjacent beacons to place at the same height, but not all four.
Objective: There should be a simple command to set the height of objects directly. Attempting to stack items on one another is haphazard and extremely time-consuming. A key that moves the object up and down, or a slider control that appears in the info dialog for the item, would be fine. A command to make the object "sit" on the objects below it would also be convenient, but not essential. Eyeballing the height is a lot simpler than trying to stack various desks and safes on each other.
A wider variety of sizes of generic "building block" objects would be very useful. Floor and wall sections would be very helpful for building smaller rooms inside the big areas bases provide. A set of combinable staircases would also be nice -- the existing four- or five-step stairways don't line up very well when combined to make a longer staircase.
It would also be nice to have doors in some wall sections that you can click to pass through. A secure door (requiring a SG permission to be set for your SG rank for you to pass through) would be very cool, and would essentially give us two-level permissions for storage objects by allowing physical access to be limited. This would let supergroups be more generous to new players to putting items anyone can take in storage devices in the unsecured areas. Personal items for long-time members could be stored in rooms whose access is restricted.
If secure doors are allowed in raidable base they would be destructible.
making invention salvage needed for crafting base items was a terrible idea... as stated above not many if anyone who is the base editor will be dropping salvage in teh bins anymore...
I dont understand the reasoning behind this, alot of wasted IMO...
I am enjoying being able to overlap objects however the bug with wall details is a pain to work around.
other than what i and others have mentioned i have found no bugs after several hours of editing.... but maybe i have just been lucky..
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
Love the refund on base item prices, the lower rent (on my bases), and the stackable items.
I had the same problem as some others with wall items not moving virtically, that needs too be fixed.
Not impressed with the lower salvage storage (from 999-30), I really dont care so much what it does too the market as I find salvage on the market often sells for more than it's worth.
I had several hundred components made up and stored in both vill and hero bases for empowerment buffs and any base needs, now I can only store 30 salvage in each of those racks.
Also, event salvage, I alt... a lot! and I'm always making new toons, so I like too store lots of event salvage for myself and friends.......30 units per salvage rack?????
The reduced salvage rack storage is the 1 BIG sour grape for me!
Objective:
Pocket D and Granville Beacons still show as "Destroyed" (Known issue)
Certain walls do not allow vertical movement. The workaround is to use a wall that does and then slide horizontally to the correct wall.
Subjective:
Ideas for the new base creator engine:
Being able to lock certain axis of movement when placing items.
Having items not strictly limited to the blue bounding box. It's much easier to create flat surfaces using desks. Before there was always a small gap on the "front".
It would be nice to have everything with a flat surface to have the ability to stack objects on it without having to place desks inside said object.
The biggest concern is going to be whatever the raid pathing rules end up being. As they were it limited our abilitiy to make rooms, to reinstate as they were would mean loosing a lot of creative ideas.
As for base salvage: Was removing component salvage really necessary? Anyone who takes the time to mess around with component salvage should know what they are doing with it in regards to base items and empowerments. All that had to be done was revamp the recipes in the Empowerment station and invention table.
"Steady as a mountain, attack like fire, still as a wood, swift as the wind.
In heaven and earth I alone am to be revered."
- Motto on the war banner of Takeda Shingen (1521-1573)
Please have Sunstorm answer the following questions for us:
1) What is the purpose of rent as it is being done now?
2) Will anything new and not related to PvP be added to bases ever?
Currently I am involved with a single SG (5 person, 25 or so Alts between us) started in August. We have are mains up to Lv 47, and a few alts in their teens.
Objective. The refund for base items, as well as the decrease in base costs and rent has allowed us to make our pre I13, Spartan 8x8 base with 8 TP beacons, into a nicley decorated base with 50% more TP beacons, 100% more storage capacity, as well as a secret room which encorages us to recruit new members, all on an 8x12 plot with prestige left over.
As has been mentioned, and yes I know you are aware of it, but the Wall Glitch as well as "Rubber Banding" in the base are the only two real complaints we have had so far.
Subjective: Base salvage being removed is easier for the new players I brought in to undertand, and so far the lack of salvage storage has not been a real problem. Mind you, If you choose to increase it to 50-100 items we won't complain.
Additionally, while this has not affected us, I can see how adding either an automatic base payment feature OR a pay the rent button INSIDE the base would make some folks happier, and if easy to implement I see no downside for the game and would STRONGLY reccomend you consider it as a QOL issue.
Hope this helps, Happy Holidays Ex.
HP Lovecat
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Because of the changes, I think the limit to the number of storage items should be raised. We had a limit of 18, with salvage racks that could store thousands. Now we have the same limit, with salvage racks that store 30.
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It's pretty bad that you can carry more Salvage on your own character than you can put into the Bins, come on Dev team, what are you thinking about here? from 999 salvage containment down to...30?? Bad idea! as bases have a restricted amount of storage per room anyway, we can't kit our bases out with hundreds of storage canisters...put it back to 999 or at the minimum 200 per storage container.
Don't Hunt What You Can't Kill, And Don't Kill What You Can't Eat!
Victory Server
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] All Supergroup Base room prices and Prestige costs have been rebalanced.[*] Rent has been substantially changed. Rent is no longer charged on a per-plot basis and is instead charged on a per-item basis for certain specific items.[*] Rent Items include all Storage, Empowerment stations, Medical auxes and 2nd or 3rd tier Worktables. It does not include basic Worktables, basic Medical, Control, Energy or Transport items.[/list]
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This is great. And even if you now have to pay rent the general cost is very small.
My one question is this: What is the point of Hidden plots? Hidden plots cost the same as Secure plots but allow less stuff. So why have them?
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<ul type="square">[*] Refunds for Base Plots, Base Rooms, and Base items will be issued if the price has changed.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for doing the extra work for this!
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] All base crafted items now use invention salvage. Base Salvage should only be needed in recipes that convert base salvage to invention salvage.[*] Base Salvage no longer drops.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This was a mistake IMO. It fixes a cause for confusion that no one was aware existed and causes a host of other issue, most noticably creating a need for players to chose between their own invention needs and their SGs.
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] Base Salvage racks can now hold a limited amount of invention salvage.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a big issue I am afraid.
Ignoring invention salvage for a moment SGs can now no longer store things like Holloween event salvage for their players. My own SG (which is tiny) has enough Halloween salvage to almost fill up a salvage rack, so I hate to imagine what its like for larger groups.
The most obvious solution is introduced a tabbed storage system like player storage. We have been told that is "non-trival" but it still needs to be done IMO.
Ignoring everything EXCEPT invention salvage the 30 limit isn't enough to allow a SG to accumulate salvage for "generic" crafting. This number needs to be larger.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Empowerment Stations
Yes I know empowerment stations were not on your list (which is telling) but ...
The change from Base Salvage to Invention Salvage makes these devices close to useless. That is not an exaggeration but is caused by the facts that:
<ul type="square">[*]Empowerment Buffs were once created from Generic Salvage[/list]Now they are created by specific recipes it means that even if I have a full inventory I can only (from my experience) create about 3 recipes.
<ul type="square">[*]To get the best use of the Market you should keep your inventory empty[/list]The advice I have always given my SG (which comes from advice from the Market Forum) is that you should always keep your inventoy as empty as possible so that you never miss out on a potential drop. This means selling your salvage at the first opportunity and assuming you will be able to buy any you need.
Anyone that follows this strategy (like myself) will almost never be able to make use of the Empowerment Stations.
<ul type="square">[*]The desire for Empowerment Buffs is adhoc[/list]Unless you are after a particular PvP bonus or you ALWAYS desire KB protection then the desire to use the Empowerment Station is an adhoc thing caused by running into a particular tough baddie such as an Elite Boss or AV and usually because you have rezzed in your base 
For Empowerment Stations to be of use in this situation then they have to be able to offer a wide range of buffs from whatever the player has available. A player in this situation is not going to go to the market and bid for specific salvage just to get the buff they need.
<ul type="square">[*]Little difference between Arcane and Tech Recipes[/list]Apart from the recipes that require a single component all the recipes in the Tech and Arcane stations are the same. Which makes having two pretty pointless.
My suggested solution to these problems would be to allow a one for one convertion of Invention salvage into "generic" items like "Tech Material" and "Tech Power" or the Arcane equivalent. Then each buff recipe would be made up of between 1 & 3 of these generic components.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] All Supergroup Base room prices and Prestige costs have been rebalanced.[*] Rent has been substantially changed. Rent is no longer charged on a per-plot basis and is instead charged on a per-item basis for certain specific items.[*] Rent Items include all Storage, Empowerment stations, Medical auxes and 2nd or 3rd tier Worktables. It does not include basic Worktables, basic Medical, Control, Energy or Transport items.
[/ QUOTE ][/list]Subjective:
Although this rent change works out greatly in my favor, it does penalize those personal or small SGs that previously had no rent. Although I understand the logic behind "taxing luxory items", the amount of rent is too small to affect larger SGs, and possibly too big for single-person SGs.
Perhaps in the future, we can apply rent only to raidable bases, and not apply rent to non-raid bases. Or, we can go back to plot-based rent with reduced prices. Or do away with rent altogether (as others have suggested), depending on the objective of rent. Just one idea off the top of my head.
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] Refunds for Base Plots, Base Rooms, and Base items will be issued if the price has changed.[*] Players must enter the base before a refund is generated.[*] Any crafted items stored on a character in personal inventory will charge the new prices.
[/ QUOTE ][/list]
Objective: This refund worked flawlessly for our SG; thanks for doing this so that we could save Prestige without completely rebuilding
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*] All base crafted items now use invention salvage. Base Salvage should only be needed in recipes that convert base salvage to invention salvage.[*] Base Salvage no longer drops.
[/ QUOTE ][/list]Objective:
The new item crafting system certainly requires less work, since base items now just need a handful of salvage items, as opposed to refining base salvage into component salvage, and then having enough component salvage to build an item.
Using existing base salvage still requires some work, but this is a purely temporal issue as base salvage is exhausted from the game.
Subjective:
I feel the new system is better, but some are leery about relying on the market for salvage for base items. Although the new system uses less salvage, and we've been able to buy/ sell base salavge through the markets, Invention Salvage in itself is more useful for the individual than Base Salvage. The only individual use for base salavge was Empowerments; now base items require the same salvage used for Empowerments, Inventions, and craft-able tempo powers & costume pieces.
So far, I've had no problems making the few items I've needed with the new system, but that's just my personal experience.
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<ul type="square">[*] Base raiding is currently being redesigned, and will be in that state for some time. For the duration, all base raiding, including instant raids, will be disabled.[*] Removed all raiding related restrictions on placing items in a base. Specifically, items may now intersect and or completely block door to door paths or door to item paths. This change will allow much greater freedom in placing objects in your base.[*] When raids are enabled again, players will be able to choose whether their base will abide by the new raiding-related restrictions.
[/ QUOTE ][/list]Subjective:
Although many architects could care less about raids, I am one of those players who is highly interested in them for the future. However, without knowing what sort of pathing limitations will be placed on a base once raiding is re-enabled, I'm leery about the amount of work I'm putting into building my base. How much of it will simply need to be redone once the new system is in place? I'm hoping that some things, like the ability to make 2nd floors for example, will be able to work with the new raiding system so that raidable bases can have at least some atmosphere, and not merely be boxy rooms with guns.
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<ul type="square">[*] Added Teleporter Beacon for Pocket D.[*] Added SG badge to access Pocket D beacon.[*] Robo-Surgery can be attached to the Basic Reclaimator[*] Spirit Signal can be attached to Resurrection Rings
[/ QUOTE ][/list]Subjective:
Thanks for the beacon add and the long-requested bug fixes for the Medical Aux devices
I know some architects have requested Aspects of the Pilar for Cimerora. Although the content is restricted through the storyline, If another Aspect could be added specifically for Cimerora, that checks against the Midnight Squad badge (much like the TP pad check vs. level for Hazard Zones), it would add to flexibility in reaching Cimerora while maintaining the content to reach this zone in the first place. But that's a whole other tangent for requested base items anyhow.
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<ul type="square">[*] Base Salvage racks can now hold a limited amount of invention salvage.
[/ QUOTE ][/list]Subjective:
It's nice that we finally have a place to store Invention Salvage which we can share with other SG mates (or even use to swap salvage between alts).
However, they would be more useful if we could also store a small amount of recipes. Although Enhancements can already be stored, I for one have particula character(s) working towards crafting badges, or which have more Influence/ Infamy that could be used towards the market or inventing.
Also, with the advent of using this same Invention Salvage towards base items, consider increasing the limit in the future. I know it's already being looked at, and the 30 was a reasonable number since the new system was being rolled out (and to not hamper the market too badly), but consider raising the amount of stored salvage to 50 or 100 in the future.
[u]Also, try to develop the tech to exclude, or have a different storage amount for, Event Salvage.[u] One of the biggest reason architects are unhappy with the current salvage limitation is because of collected Event Salvage. This is especially true for Halloween salvage, which requires 4 pieces of salvage per set. Add to that the amount of Candy Canes a SG could bank for alts and auxiliary members (or to use as recruiting incentives or player event prizes even), plus any new Event salvage introduced in the future, and you are talking about filling up available storage space rather quickly. Perhaps it's the intent of the devs to limit the amount of stored Event Salvage, but perhaps a better compromise can be had.
Finally, thanks for setting up this thread Ex!
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Empowerment Stations
Yes I know empowerment stations were not on your list (which is telling) but ...
The change from Base Salvage to Invention Salvage makes these devices close to useless.
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My suggested solution to these problems would be to allow a one for one convertion of Invention salvage into "generic" items like "Tech Material" and "Tech Power" or the Arcane equivalent. Then each buff recipe would be made up of between 1 & 3 of these generic components.
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I'll refrain from quoting your entire post even though it was right on the money. Regarding the solution, previously the empowerment buffs used something we had in massive quantities. What if they changed the empowerment stations to run off BRAINSTORMS? Give us the ability to convert invention salvage into brainstorms and have the empowerment station costs all be varying amounts of brainstorms, based on the usefulness of the buff. Set the 'exchange rate' of invention salvage to brainstorms such that you can't do 'round trips' to make a profit.
Having the buffs require 3 different random salvage items is nuts. It is just super inconvenient. Especially since invention salvage storage is so small - you are extremely unlikely to have all 3 items lying around.
Since they went to the trouble of creating brainstorms, why don't they make them something that will be around a while, rather than a temporary conversion currency.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Salvage Rack needs to see a substantial increase, I can fill it up rather quickly by myself...that goes w/out saying for larger SGs or those in the Top 10/100
Use the following topic to discuss Issue 13's Bases.
<ul type="square">[*] All Supergroup Base room prices and Prestige costs have been rebalanced.[*] Rent has been substantially changed. Rent is no longer charged on a per-plot basis and is instead charged on a per-item basis for certain specific items.[*] Rent Items include all Storage, Empowerment stations, Medical auxes and 2nd or 3rd tier Worktables. It does not include basic Worktables, basic Medical, Control, Energy or Transport items.[*] Refunds for Base Plots, Base Rooms, and Base items will be issued if the price has changed.[*] Players must enter the base before a refund is generated.[*] All base crafted items now use invention salvage. Base Salvage should only be needed in recipes that convert base salvage to invention salvage.[*] Base Salvage no longer drops. [*] Base raiding is currently being redesigned, and will be in that state for some time. For the duration, all base raiding, including instant raids, will be disabled.[*] Removed all raiding related restrictions on placing items in a base. Specifically, items may now intersect and or completely block door to door paths or door to item paths. This change will allow much greater freedom in placing objects in your base.[*] When raids are enabled again, players will be able to choose whether their base will abide by the new raiding-related restrictions.[*] Added Teleporter Beacon for Pocket D.[*] Added SG badge to access Pocket D beacon.[*] Robo-Surgery can be attached to the Basic Reclaimator[*] Spirit Signal can be attached to Resurrection Rings[*] Base Salvage racks can now hold a limited amount of invention salvage.[*] Any crafted items stored on a character in personal inventory will charge the new prices.[/list]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective Feedback: Objective feedback is based upon what you as a user see or experience that other users may also see and experience. This feedback usually can be replicated easily as it involves facts and unbiased opinions. Example: When using the base editor items are sometimes getting caught in columns or pillars.
Subjective Feedback: Subjective feedback is based upon how you feel or experience the game as yourself. This experience may not necessarily be replicated because it is based on feeling and emotion. Subjective feedback is important to us but it is usually helpful if more information is present to describe what and why you feel the way you do. Example: I like the way the graphics look on my shield animation it gives me the feeling of being truly super-powered.
Are you reporting a bug from Issue 13? Please use this thread to report bugs, there is a format in the OP that you can follow to help you in your reporting. Issue 13: BUGS