Discussion: Purchasable Character Respecs
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2008-07-31 10:40 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Okay, perhaps Vargr is just a poor, confused fuzz-head, but Im not really getting the gist of why all the angst and whining is going on against offering something new for a price; especially since, as has been stated, none of the existing options are going away?
Perhaps putting it in another perspective will help me understand:
*Announcer* Hello one and all, and welcome to our sports park. We hope you enjoy your time here.
*Clients* Were thirsty! Do you have any soda?
*Announcer* Yes indeed! We have many ways to get a free soda here. For instance;
We have that obstacle course over there! Its not a triathlon, but its not the easiest gauntlet to run either. You might not make it first time. But if you finish, well hand you a free soda!
*Announcer* Also, once a year, well pull up a big ol tractor trailer and hand out free sodas to every one!
*Announcer* Also, two or three times a year, we have parties here where we give out free gifts and neat sports apparel and all kinds of different treats. And at all of those, we give you a free soda too, along with all the other goodies.
*Announcer* And finally, while youre here playing in our park, youll occasionally find, at random among the jumps and races and contests you win, a certificate for a free soda in your prize package. If youre not thirsty then, you can even sell those certificates to someone who is, its up to you!
*Announcer* Yup, you can get sodas all those ways, just for the cost of admission to our park to play our games!
*Crowd* But what if we want a soda now?
*Announcer* Thats a good question! Tell you what; well just install this soda machine over here. And, if you want a soda in between all the free ones, you can buy one there.
*Clients* NOOOOOOO! DOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!
*Vargr ponders, then shakes his head* Nope, still not getting it! Sorry!
*wanders away, confused*
We are not old, so long as we continue to chase our dreams.
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In the neer future several "Competitive" games will hit the market. With flashy new graphics, New storylines, New powers, New everything. And this game will remain 4 years old and grow to 5 years old so on and so forth.
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Quick note: Don't think for a moment that those upcoming competitors won't have higher system requirements than COH. People understandably get upset when an update causes their performance to go down on their machines, and I don't know about you but I've got a lot of friends who are playing on older or less powerful machines who are still playing COH, settings turned down, because they like it so much (low FPS and all). They won't be able to play those competitors, guaranteed. If they could've upgraded their machines (or bought new ones), they would've done so already.
MMO's can go on for years - some of the old ones are close to the 10-year mark, even with a 10 million pound gorilla in the market in the exact same genre. MMO's don't get "old" the way normal games do - they keep going as long as people want to play and they're profitable. That's it.
Its worth noting that 10MPG also lost subscribers to a new game, but has gotten a lot of them back. Why? Because new games have new game problems. COH is stable, mature, well built, and way past major nerf-ages.changes of old. The competitors to COH still have to go through all that, and they way they're setting up their games? Yeah, there's every possibility they'll have far more issues balancing their games than COH ever did. I'm not even going to look at the "competition" until they're at least a year old, maybe two, and have hopefully stabilized.
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I see no reason why they cant just open up the microtransaction store.. where people can buy just about everything in game and just drop the sub fee.
We can pay NCNC for ingame currency and for better prices than the RMTers.. we could buy recipes we want.. we could buy all the current stuff they are selling.. and even more.
Just really seems like this is where its headed..
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The free through microtransaction games I've seen are all made with a lot less content, a lot less new development, and on the whole are lower-budget games than COH. And to make that a viable revenue stream? They'd have to change drop rates, increase prices on vendor items, possibly repeal XP smoothing (how many of those titles are ultra-high-grind?), RMT Influence/Infamy would very likely shoot prices on the consignment houses through the roof, etc. Otherwise? There's no way it would be able to replace what a subscription fee provides them (and certainly wouldn't be as reliable a source of income). That wouldn't be acceptable, and those kinds of changes could likely drive a lot of people away.
These optional and unnecessary services and products NCSoft provides right now allows them to bring increase revenue, which allows them to increase the amount of money COH has for development, without raising our subscription fees OR lowering the quality of what they're doing. I'd rather they continue as they are than attempt to make the entire game microtransaction based - I simply cannot see that being able to pay for everything at this level of quality and development.
It's nice they're offering it, but it's too pricey just for a respec (as well as a name change or a limited costume pack like the wedding, for that matter).
Two or three bucks, sure, but not ten bucks. 
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@Perfect_Pain
NCSoft isn't selling enough items to sustain the game, much less grow the game, on microtransactions alone. And have you played some of the games that are free with only microtransactions? I don't want COH turning into that!
The Wedding Pack got VEATs into i12, ahead of schedule and budget (scheduled/budgeted for i13). That was certainly a plus! People and development cost money, and as Randy Pitchford (CEO of Gearbox) said, "The difference between some games that have a great promise but don't quite fulfill it and the really great games is often about budget allowing the commitment to quality that most game makers have."
NCNC has a great commitment to quality. The "cash store" lets them improve their budget without raising fees. I don't see a problem.
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In the neer future several "Competitive" games will hit the market. With flashy new graphics, New storylines, New powers, New everything. And this game will remain 4 years old and grow to 5 years old so on and so forth.
For 3+ years CoX only asked us all for a Subscription Fee. And for the we got 2/3 Free issues per year. And everyone was happy.
Then they tested the waters with the First Microtransaction.. Good versus Evil goodie pack.. then was another goodie pack.. then more and then the bridal pack.. then server transfers.. then name changes.. then more slots.. now respecs..
Now sure none of that was/is needed. But in the beginning, when we thought it was gonna be like every blue moon they have them, then sure why not. But now. Its not the same as back then.
I see no reason why they cant just open up the microtransaction store.. where people can buy just about everything in game and just drop the sub fee.
We can pay NCNC for ingame currency and for better prices than the RMTers.. we could buy recipes we want.. we could buy all the current stuff they are selling.. and even more.
Just really seems like this is where its headed..
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You just go over there then. Tell me how it was when you come back a few months later with your tail between your legs.
Seriously, if you're going to leave, do it already. Get out. Scat. Bugger off.
I'm tired of hearing about players threatening to leave for games that promise a bunch of cool things that don't even exist yet.
Also, next year I promise to release a game that has everything you ever wanted! But I don't have a schedule for beta yet 
Also, I hear that barbarian game that shall rename nameless is the bee's knees 
Didn't a bunch of people leave for that? Oh, wait, most of them came back?!? Really?!? You don't say!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! 
I am glad this is available!!!
A resounding "meh" for this one.
I think it's a bad idea personally. Oh well.
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You just go over there then. Tell me how it was when you come back a few months later with your tail between your legs.
Seriously, if you're going to leave, do it already. Get out. Scat. Bugger off.
I'm tired of hearing about players threatening to leave for games that promise a bunch of cool things that don't even exist yet.
Also, next year I promise to release a game that has everything you ever wanted! But I don't have a schedule for beta yet
Also, I hear that barbarian game that shall rename nameless is the bee's knees Didn't a bunch of people leave for that? Oh, wait, must of them came back?!? Really?!? You don't say!
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I didnt say I was quitting. But even if I did, who cares. Its not like this game isnt losing people right and left. Pushing out new issues in hopes of getting people back. Where is Issue 13 anyways?
What I am saying, is this game is old. And every little bits of time they are "offering" ways we can give them more money. More and more and more.
Why not just make Respecs FREE ? Why not? Who would it hurt? If you want the badge, do the trial.. If you want the recipe.. do the trial..
If respecs were free, PvPers to PvEers would be cool. You could just switch yourbuild for whatever the situation called for..
respec recipes would still get used.. or they could be like costume recipes.. its no biggy really.. but Why should they cost REAL MONEY?
Why not sell 100 million Inf for 9.99$ Whats stopping them from doing that?
- to the other person who said those other games will need a better computer...
I currently can run Crysis on High.. So pretty much any other game that can come out.. I am good for.
And I do plan on playing those other games. Right now I am only subbed to this one thoe, so I will ring in my opinions when I want to..
I really just dont see the point in charging for every little thing. *Your right.. we dont "Have" to pay.. but for a game this old.. why not just make that stuff free.. Thats incentive to play and stay.
- Oh and by competitive games.. I am talking about all the super hero games coming out in 2009.. Not so much the stuff that came out this year.
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I really just dont see the point in charging for every little thing.
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Neither do the devs. Which is why they don't. When they start charging to use the trains, I might get more concerned.
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I see no reason why they cant just open up the microtransaction store.. where people can buy just about everything in game and just drop the sub fee.
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I'm pretty sure it's because they don't want to go out of business. They need to make more money, not less.
May I suggest that the reason does exist, whether you see it or not.
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Great idea for me. Not gonna use too many because of veteran rewards but great to have out there for characters that are respec'd out.
Think there's any possibility of making a purchasable respec that could change your secondary tree? That would be great on so many levels. There are toons that I love that either through nerfs or other changes would greatly benefit from having their secondary changed. As is, I have no desire to role another one of the same primary and grind to 50 again.
Additionally, perhaps a bit off the current topic, is there a possibility of adding, like in another NC soft game Guild Wars, a recipe or item that could grant double xp for the individual or party for a limited period of time?
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell
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"Why not just make Respecs FREE?
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Free as in Guild Wars's ability to respec at any time free? COH's character creation is a LOT more involved and simply cannot be done that fast/conveniently. But I vaguely recall the idea of allowing you to have an "extra build slot", so to speak, was being tossed around. Not a promise or anything, but it had been thought about. Could be wrong. I'd rather see that - one charcter, but with a PVE build and PVP build... Or two different specilizations. Or a general build and a specialized build ("Changing gears" depending on task). That could be nice.
If we had the ability to respec at any time, for free and at whim, a small portion of the playerbase would die of happiness, obviously. A lot of us wouldn't care. I'm afraid there would be a portion of the playerbase who aren't really knowledgeable about the game who'd constantly respec their characters trying to get be uber or feeling like they messed up, never learning how to use their powers, getting frustrated the whole time. Also, I'm afraid that there would be some obnoxious players who will basically try and force people to respec to meet some "golden ideal" they have of how the game should be played. I've got friends who play other MMO's and this happens more than it should - meet "spec" or be shunned.
"ur speccd rong n00b"
"l0l g1mpd"
Build-based descrimination does exist in COH, sadly (my poor friends with Storm!). Free, on-demand respecs might not help any, and would make the jerks that much more vocal. Over-worried? Maybe. But I try not to underestimate the human capacity for stupidity and obnoxiousness.
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When they start charging to use the trains, I might get more concerned.
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Pocket D porter cost money.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Free as in Guild Wars's ability to respec at any time free? COH's character creation is a LOT more involved and simply cannot be done that fast/conveniently.
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In my dream world, you could respec your build just as if you were using Mids to plan your build. No need to redo your entire character just to move one slot around.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Oh - and for system specs. Great you can run such a demanding game. A lot of us can't. Most people, in general, can't. My point was the hardware requirements are going to make the new games inaccessible to a lot of folks.
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Why not sell 100 million Inf for 9.99$ Whats stopping them from doing that?
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RMT/Spammers would beat that price if they had to, and you'd make many things on the consignment house virtually unbuyable to anyone who DIDN'T purchase influence.
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Free as in Guild Wars's ability to respec at any time free? COH's character creation is a LOT more involved and simply cannot be done that fast/conveniently.
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In my dream world, you could respec your build just as if you were using Mids to plan your build. No need to redo your entire character just to move one slot around.
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That's a nice idea, actually. No idea how it would be implemented, mind you, but that's a nice idea.
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But it being $10 for one respec really puts me off to the whole idea.
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I really have to wonder what kind of jobs people have that ten bucks seems like a big deal. Or are they approaching this from the "Damn I'd like to respec six times a month, and that's way too much?" position?
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Some people disagree with such things on principle, not
personal finances.
Can I afford $10? Yes. Would I consider $10 for a respec to be
a fair price for this service, if I needed it? No. Therefore, I
wouldn't use it even if I wanted/needed it. I'm not that
impatient and wasteful of real money.
You don't have to be unable to afford something, to find it
overpriced and not worth its pricetag.
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And things have gotten a lot more expensive recently. I don't have a great job and I'm trying to save up for a newer computer (my old one doesn't really run COH that well anymore.)
$10 may not be much, really. But that's also maybe my one movie I make a month plus popcorn. I can afford it, but not without giving up something.
Still here, even after all this time!
<QR> May have already been mentioned.
Hmm on second thought, doesn't this change indirectly mean that an in-game respec recipe now has an actual real world value? This is opening a real world vs MMO world pricing competition because the intellectual property (Respecs) has a real world value. RMT sites could start buying up the respec recipes on the ingame markets and sell them for $7 or something.
This is potentially a bad thing...
There's still free-specs, VR respecs and trial respecs to consider - all of which are more common/easier to get than the respec recipes.
Why pay $7 and risk a whole host of issues (banning, CC fraud, etc), when you can get a team together and do a trial, or use a VR respec or free-spec?
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Quick note: Don't think for a moment that those upcoming competitors won't have higher system requirements than COH. People understandably get upset when an update causes their performance to go down on their machines, and I don't know about you but I've got a lot of friends who are playing on older or less powerful machines who are still playing COH, settings turned down, because they like it so much (low FPS and all). They won't be able to play those competitors, guaranteed. If they could've upgraded their machines (or bought new ones), they would've done so already.
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Too true. My husband likes to try other games, currently he's playing Conan. That game's storage requirements are so big it wouldn't fit in the space left on his harddrive. To keep his current games AND play Conan... he bought a large, separate harddrive and now runs all his games on THAT while running all his other programs off his old harddrive.
Me, I'm sticking to COH, and always have for the last 4 years.
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I guess being able so spend inf in game for respecs is asking to much? 1 Mil for the first respec, and then it keeps doubling ect.
And good luck getting a respec team now, I can already see the LFT requests
>50 Blaster LF Respec Team
> Why don't you just buy one it's only $10.00 cheap skate!!
This will happen.
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Oh - and for system specs. Great you can run such a demanding game. A lot of us can't. Most people, in general, can't. My point was the hardware requirements are going to make the new games inaccessible to a lot of folks.
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Why not sell 100 million Inf for 9.99$ Whats stopping them from doing that?
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RMT/Spammers would beat that price if they had to, and you'd make many things on the consignment house virtually unbuyable to anyone who DIDN'T purchase influence.
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This is the best argument against purchasable tradeables.
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I guess being able so spend inf in game for respecs is asking to much? 1 Mil for the first respec, and then it keeps doubling ect.
And good luck getting a respec team now, I can already see the LFT requests
>50 Blaster LF Respec Team
> Why don't you just buy one it's only $10.00 cheap skate!!
This will happen.
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Pool D recipes.
About to do a respec just for that myself right now.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Why not just call it a day and sell costume slots?
RESPECS??? Gimme a break.
If not costume slots, sell a closet in the SG base, so we can store costume parts of our own choosing, or have something that you can earn from all of the gratuatous T and A watching, streetsweeping, and farming.
Maybe have some of the badges show up as costume appurances.
Some of the stuff you guys are selling is really weaksauce.
Sell something cool [censored] like a perminant pet like a monster pet, a weapon, a shield, something like a Jeter Crap NIKE [censored] bag, a pair of blond bombshells, a COH T SHirt, or one of those cool [censored] T shirts with the Chest details on them.
In short, just stop selling bags of poo poo and sell something worth me just throwing money away. It is a game after all, sell something for it.
Well, considering that we don't know much about what they have coming down the pipes... who can say how this will ultimately pan out.
Offline rewards
The CoV/CoH merger as a setup for future projects
Further Powerset Proliferation
Patron Pool being unlocked
Mission Builder
...these are only the things that we know about
Still think they could've done better with the pricing (a new character slot is only $5.99; $20 for 5 ($2 each))... but who know what the grand picture for 2008-09 will be?
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Remove the subscription Fee per month.
IMO you cant have a CASH SHOP and a SUB FEE..
It used to be pay sub fee get all this wonderful other stuff for free or part of your sub fee.. however you wanna see it.
Now its pay your sub fee and now buy everything else.. because we wont give it to you for free even thoe this game is OLD 4 years and is coming up on some MAJOR competition..
I wonder if those other copmpetitive games are going to make us pay a sub fee AND buy all the ingame extras too. ??
*make is maybe not the right word.. but thats what i am sayin right now.
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Which free methods of getting a Respec are going away to make room for this?
If the answer to this question is "any of them", then your argument holds water. If the answer is "none of them," then your argument doesn't. We are losing nothing in this transaction that was not already free. You still have the three Respec trials, the Vet specs, the Patron respec, Respec Recipes and we have been told that they still plan to give out freespecs when something major happens to our powers that a significant portion of the people who have those powersets affected could either want to repec into or out of the affected powers.
Since we aren't losing anything, this reaction simply comes off as knee-jerk. We have been given yet another way to Respec, and lost nothing.
Take a few deep breaths.
It will help.
Really.
edit: forgot about Respec Recipes
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Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
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