Discussion: NCsoft NorCal Executives on IGN.com
By
Altoholic_Monkey,
Posted on: 2008-04-03 15:48 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
don't care, where's the info on epic AT's?
Its up.
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... Advertisers are already influencing game development decisions and they're not even in-game yet!
*shudder*
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It's because marketing chicks are HAWT! They're the devil! The devil!
I'll gladly leave the Real World ads on in exchange for a discount on my monthly subscription fee!
Otherwise keep it out of my game experience.
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There have been requests for something like this, and it ranged from having the billboards change out every so often to having real ads. I think they might have had a better reaction if they'd been able to put the ads there right from the start since then they wouldn't have to deal with teh bad blood about in-game advertising caused by such mess ups as Anarchy Online and Dungeon Runners. DR was originally just going to have an ad for non-paying customers during hte load screens, then it got out of hand and was poorly monitored and implemented.
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It may be that the reason this implementation is so reasonable is because they've seen what happened in Anarchy Online and Dungeon Runners (intimately with Dungeon Runners). And they learned from it. The additional money from ads would be good, but not at the cost of annoyed and unhappy players. Even if they aren't unhappy to the point of leaving, they'll be less likely to recommend the game to others.
And in their design, and in what they've said, they've taken great care to pay attention to player feelings. It's all immersive. Misclicks won't take you out of the game. Little to no impact on performance. And if someone just doesn't want the ads, they can opt out.
If it had been in the game from the start, without having a chance to see how it could go wrong, they might not have done it as well, and someone might be posting on another game's forums about "bad blood about in-game advertising caused by such mess ups as Cith of Heroes".
You know how you recognize the pioneers, right? They're the guys filled with arrows.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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So What?
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Initially, we're working with the current fictitious billboard which are static placements.
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The second thing that Double Fusion gives us is 100% control over all the advertising campaigns that we allow to be displayed within the game. So if we feel that something doesn't fit within the City of Heroes universe, we won't allow that to be displayed within the game.
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So maybe "El Super Mexicano Burrito" - becomes Taco Bell, or Taco Bueno, or whatever.
The "Crey Billboard" becomes an NC Soft, or Corsair, or Asus Billboard, big deal.
They already know we won't likely stand for massive (or probably even noticeable slow downs) - which seems unlikely anyway as they'll be filling the same spaces.
And the Example of a Gatorade-ish ad ("HQ - Hero Quencher) is perfectly fine - instead of some of some fake Sushi place.
Or replacing stuff like the old Anti-Kheldian propaganda "They're Among Us" - fine by me!
And if for some reason the ads still get your undies in a bunch you can opt-out!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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((This post will likely last all of 30 seconds but I wanted to post it ))
Wif all dese heer ad tingees comin in da wurld Whale is gittin no da happierest wif NCSoft. Firstest wuz da noo soot joo hadta pays monee fer now dere is ads fer "moor stuff in da foochoor".
Wuz fun fer Whale to be da heer but sorrees but Whale no wanna gits dis stuff so Whale gunna goes da byebye.
(( I cannot see it sensbile to pay a sub and have to deal with ads. NCSoft may think this is such a peachy keen idea for revenue but I can't stick around and see the game I loved become a giant Coke or Ipod ad ala "American Idol"))
((If this goes ahead I likely won't resub this month. I will miss the firends and enemies I made. Hopefully I will see you at some later date. Since this will likely be gone before I can respond please feel free to PM me))
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My one real concern is the community content that will be displayable with this system. It sounds cool and could be a real asset to players. If I opt-out of the ads, will I be unable to access this community content? That would be a shame. Hopefully there will be two different opt-in options: ads/community content and just community content.
Regardless, thanks for the update and for being player-first with this new feature.
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This would be a great feature. I'll be opting in regardless, but those that don't should definitely have access to community stuff. And opting in won't matter too much to me, since my graphics will make ads pixelated and unreadable regardless.
You know....I spend hours a week cleaning crap out of people's computers. Malware, spyware, virii and so forth. I am not pleased that you folks are going to be streaming garbage into my computer.
Yeah, I know...we can "opt out". Show me that you haven't somehow compromised my system with your Adware, after all....you've never screwed up with any of your code so far and there aren't years worth of bugs still hanging around out there in your game.
Are you that desperate for cash that you have to turn a game I already pay for into a billboard?
I've been in this game since 3 months after launch but this is the end for me.
Complete rubbish 
Wow, a lot of doomsayers in here.
A lot of people seem to jumping to a lot of conclusions though.
We don't know exactly how they are going to track how many players are seeing the ads yet. I doubt they are going to allow spyware to be used on their customers though as that would create a mass exodus, and that is something I am sure NCSoft does not want. More than likely they will simply track whether you are opted in or out to determine this.
Pricing and placement of ads should work like in real life though, if they want to retain immersion. I cannot see them rotating ads on every zone in that happens. That would totally detract from the immersion of the game. Instead the ads should be paid placement on specific billboards in specific areas and would remain on said billboards until the paid advertisement time is up. Locations in places like Atlas Park, Peregrine Island, Cap Au Diable and Grandville would be the high end advertisements and should be the most expensive placements as those areas are very populated. Other locations in less used zones like Boomtown or Dark Astoria (especially considering the visibility factor here) would cost much less and placements would last longer. Whatever they do, they should not let them rotate upon every load in of the zone. That would be horrible for immersion.
Also, they should have competing advertisements and product placement. They should not take a deal with Coke and let them dominate the ad space. They should let the advertisers compete for ad space the same way they do in real life (an ad for Coke seen on one billboard, an ad for Pepsi or RC Cola on another down the block).
The additional advertisement they are thinking of is most likely product placement. Having Starbucks plastered on your /e drink cup, or Lays on the side of a truck, or various products in the Natural stores shelves or on the Black Market's displays. Perhaps changing the generic markets to known stores such as Vons or Smith's Food, or putting Winchell's Donuts sign on the donut shop in Faultline. There's a lot they can do without adding pop-ups or plastering ads all over every inch of wall space, like some of you people automatically assume.
Whatever they do with these advertisements, I am sure they will cut it off completely if a majority of the playerbase dislike the way it all plays out. NCSoft cares about it's subscribers and wants to keep them. They would not chance the whole game falling apart because of in game ads.
Just give it a chance people. It could really help the immersion to have more realistic advertisements. And again, you can always just turn them off if you don't like them. I really doubt they are going to try to goad you into turning them on.
You've got a /e thumbsup from me Lighthouse. I'll give it a chance before I say the sky is falling. And as many of you may know, I'm one of the more pessimistic players on these boards.
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You know....I spend hours a week cleaning crap out of people's computers. Malware, spyware, virii and so forth. I am not pleased that you folks are going to be streaming garbage into my computer.
Yeah, I know...we can "opt out". Show me that you haven't somehow compromised my system with your Adware, after all....you've never screwed up with any of your code so far and there aren't years worth of bugs still hanging around out there in your game.
Are you that desperate for cash that you have to turn a game I already pay for into a billboard?
I've been in this game since 3 months after launch but this is the end for me.
Complete rubbish
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Yeah, they're totally desperate for cash.
That's why they've nearly tripled their dev team and made forays into getting more money to expand it even further.
Obviously, when you have no money, the first thing you do is his more people.
...waaaaaaaaaitasecond...
"Some people wrestle with their inner demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder." - Black Mage
"We've trained you better than for you to use excuses like 'I didn't have control over what I was doing!'" - Major Tasker, Longbow
This is a good thing. If instead of occasionally noticing ads for fake things I notice ads for real things, what have I lost? If I do lose something, I can opt out and go back to the way things were. Each individual person in the game won't be worse off as a result of this change.
We do get something for our time. The company gets paid money for us watching these things, and that money is going to go into making the game better. That money has to come from somewhere, and I see no reason to complain that the money is coming from large corporations instead of my rather less capital-infused wallet.
So in exchange for no individual loss for anyone, we're getting a collective benefit of as-yet unknown scale. I fail to see why this is bad.
Paranoiac gibberish about spyware and the companies selling the adspace busting into our house and shoving the ads into our face while holding a gun to our collective heads aren't going to make this go away. If you really, really, don't want more stuff, well-structured and logically sound arguments are the best way to change minds. If I can't read your post, I'm not going t oudnerstand it, and if I can't understand it I'm certainly not going to support it.
I will be opting out. I personally hate seeing ads in games/products/services that I have to pay for; I only tolerate ads if what I am playing/watching is free. XM Satellite radio has ads on some of its channels and I make a point to always change the channel because I hate paying to be spammed with ads. In games that are less sensitive to their players, I can see ads on the login screen, ads while zoning, 'buying' virtual versions of RL products in game, ads that take you to their website if clicked on, etc. Worst case senario would be sponsored in-game powers (e.g. "Jolt Cola's Accelerate Metabolism"), though that is very unlikely for several years. I never underestimate the levels advertisers will stoop to, however. I live in Southern California, and even with all of our concerns over smog, global warming, horrible traffic, urban blight, etc, we still have mobile billboard trucks that do nothing other than drive around so we can see their ads while we are stuck in traffic.
I greatly appreciate the option to opt out (and I think that is actually better for the advertisers since I personally have a very strong negative reaction to any product/company whose ads I am forced to view). RL ads completely ruin the escapist atmosphere of games for me. By the same token, however, the fake (and often funny) in-world ads we currently have add to the game and I like them.
Edit:
Was that even an interview? It read like an infomercial with all the praise the interviewer gave. I have lost respect for IGN (and still would have even if I loved the idea being proposed).
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No matter how many levels I gain, the Lag Monster is always red to me.
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You know....I spend hours a week cleaning crap out of people's computers. Malware, spyware, virii and so forth. I am not pleased that you folks are going to be streaming garbage into my computer.
Yeah, I know...we can "opt out". Show me that you haven't somehow compromised my system with your Adware, after all....you've never screwed up with any of your code so far and there aren't years worth of bugs still hanging around out there in your game.
Are you that desperate for cash that you have to turn a game I already pay for into a billboard?
I've been in this game since 3 months after launch but this is the end for me.
Complete rubbish
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Yeah, they're totally desperate for cash.
That's why they've nearly tripled their dev team and made forays into getting more money to expand it even further.
Obviously, when you have no money, the first thing you do is his more people.
...waaaaaaaaaitasecond...
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His conecern about possible spyware/malware infection is VALID.
Users computer security is in question here, and we deserve a redname answer on this.
Finally I'm not the ONLY one who sees this as a concern.
@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
[url="http://www.freewebs.com/mrsalphaone"]DA![/url]
[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all
Hey all u that "claim" ur quiting the game, can i have ur stuff?
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Users computer security is in question here, and we deserve a redname answer on this.
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What's wrong with the ones you were already given?
GhostRaptor, quoted over here:
'there will be no private data sent to Double Fusion or the advertisers. They only information they receive is data about how often the ads are viewed.'
GhostRaptor, clarifying yet again:
'As has been said earlier in the thread (and elsewhere): the only information that DF/advertisers receive is how many times, and for how long, each ad is viewed for. *Nothing* else.'
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Users computer security is in question here, and we deserve a redname answer on this.
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What's wrong with the ones you were already given?
GhostRaptor, quoted over here:
'there will be no private data sent to Double Fusion or the advertisers. They only information they receive is data about how often the ads are viewed.'
GhostRaptor, clarifying yet again:
'As has been said earlier in the thread (and elsewhere): the only information that DF/advertisers receive is how many times, and for how long, each ad is viewed for. *Nothing* else.'
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So basicly they are turning this game into spyware. Thanks that's all I really needed to know. They SAY no private data, but once that little space is open in your system, stuff can and does get in.
IT's like a hole in a dam. it gradually weakens the system integrity and BOOM you're getting popups for 1900-pr0nsite and "ZOMG Hot girls in your area!" and win.32 trojans.
Adware leads the way to Spyware, Spyware leads the way to Malware, and Malware leads the way to the Computer Repairman's pocket.
NCsoft really should look at these concerns. And address them Themselves, especially with the ad company. Privacy be damned. I'm on the internet. Just by logging on I've totally forefitted any right to privacy. BUT, I have taken precautions to prevent malware/spyware/Adware from infiltrating and destroying my systems.
I'm not talking about privacy here, I'm talking about system integrity and computer security and stability. You know, If this causes people's computers to get infected with virii due to the opening of this little hole, there will probably be real hell to pay.
This aint tinfoil hat "ZOMG People are watchin meh!" this is a real valid technological concern by NCsoft opening Pandoras box and drilling a hole in this dam.
@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
[url="http://www.freewebs.com/mrsalphaone"]DA![/url]
[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all
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What's wrong with the ones you were already given?
GhostRaptor, quoted over here:
'there will be no private data sent to Double Fusion or the advertisers. They only information they receive is data about how often the ads are viewed.'
GhostRaptor, clarifying yet again:
'As has been said earlier in the thread (and elsewhere): the only information that DF/advertisers receive is how many times, and for how long, each ad is viewed for. *Nothing* else.'
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So basicly they are turning this game into spyware. Thanks that's all I really needed to know. They SAY no private data, but once that little space is open in your system, stuff can and does get in.
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... how could you possibly conclude that from what was said?
They are NOT 'turning this game into spyware'. The data that's sent back is, as you were told, 'how many times, and for how long, each ad is viewed for'. And if you opt out of the ads, even THAT won't happen.
If these turn out to eventually be the same talking or audio ads that massive put in planetside. I'll unsub. Please tell me its not gonna ads like that.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
Wow. Has Planetside gotten THAT bad? 
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Wow. Has Planetside gotten THAT bad?
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The players found ways to block the ads, myself included 
. Not to go too far off topic planetside is basically a ghosttown now. The population never recovered after bfrs release date. It began to slowly recover for awhile but things got worse when people started spreading cheats throughout the game.
Hacking websites broadcast in the sanctuary much like gold farmers broadcast their services.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
A real shame, too. It filled a niche-player market. But $ony let that one go into the dumpers, too.
Now dont get me wrong, and i know that this opinion has been voiced before; but, dropping the subscription price, even minimally by opting into the in-game advertising would attract more people i think than just giving all the money to develpment. i just returned to see what was up with the game and i love it. With the inventions and salvage and all the new costume pieces since 9+ months ago.
i don't know, i wouldn't have given the option of opting out and after a period of a few months when the revenue has stabilized, i would have dropped subscription fees by a small percentage, or based on amount of time played and scaled, but still less than 14.99 or whatever amount one payed. i think the number of people willing to try the game out would increase if the sub fee was somewhat or slightly less than the golden standard of $15/month for MMO's
Someone's already brought up the fact that MMO prices are bound to increase over time. It's been a very steady rate for us so far - the only change came when taxes on internet services were added to some states' payment schemes.
This isn't to "reduce our payment" and put in advertisements. It's to put in advertisements to *increase their revenue*.
New games which aren't free are likely to be as much as 20$ a month - if our 12-15 will remain the same and we still get the bonus of having extra income provide the devs with funds they'll apply to the program, I'm glad not to have an *increased* payment for the game.
So the likelyhood of our subs going down is nil. Unless you DO want splash screens and additional ads popping up, like in free games... I don't.
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Repurposed
I wondered if there was anything that could kill the buzz about I12. I would like a redname to comment on the spyware issue. If this slows the game down or pop ups appear before you zone in - I'm done.Also if they start political or activism groups ads that will realy open the door to trouble. Imagine the fun -PETa, NRA, Planned Parenthood and Anti- abortion ads all in your game space .THey might need a new board and plenty of handlers to deal with that. I plan to opt out of the ads .