Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mmmm, Dark Tanks. Me Likey.
But Super Reflexes for Brutes? As much as I love Super Reflexes, that just doesen't seem to fit Brutes from a conceptual standpoint at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would say Venom at least is a SR brute. There is plenty of scaling resists to show toughing it out when you do get hit, but being super fast when dodging an attack doesn't seem against the brute process.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hrmmm. Maybe. I dunno... To me, Brutes always seemed like the kind of people that sit there, taking damage and shrugging it off/ignoring it, and just getting really, REALLY [censored] off.
Why did they Choice thoses powersets there more like Tankers powersets:
Scrapper:
New Primary - Fiery Melee
New Secondary - Fiery Aura
For The Scrappers New Powersets? They should choice
Scrapper:
New Primary - Energy Melee
New Secondary - Ninjitsu or Fiery Aura! or something different? Please change that please, please!, 
Nacht Nova Thunder = Level 50 (Liberty) Dark Blaster/Storm Summoning - Defender
Nova Ninja = Level 50 (Liberty) spines/ Regeneration - Scrapper
CanadianMan = Level 50 (Liberty) Super Strength/Invulnerability - Tanker
LibertyBoy = Level 35 (Liberty) Stone Armor
/Fiery Melee - Tanker
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[ QUOTE ]
Well here is one villain who has cried doom more in this one post then in 3+ years of playing. Honestly they do a great job, I love these devs....but I do wonder about PVP balance sometimes.
Ill just bow out and say, I love the idea of power prol, just didnt get what we wanted. Enough said, maybe in the future we will. 
[/ QUOTE ]
To be honest, I concur with you the most. Just wish more people kept a level head and some tact 
This is why, like in other countries, military service of at least 2 years should be mandatory for all able-bodied people above age 18 Discipline people! But I digress.
Was hoping for Elec tanks myself, and Elec Stalkers just threw me off. Here's to hoping that Round 2 will have some of the not-so-easy-to-port powers for more ATs.
Ok, ok, ok. I've talked myself into being happy with this. Right. Whatever expectations I may have had, I still got Storms and Electricity across the board for Villains, and my my love of weather-themed characters is already generating ideas.
I choose to believe that Future PP additions and All New Powersets will contain one or more of the following: Electricity Control for Controllers (for Elec/Storm) and Dominators (for a complete Elec/Elec), Ice for Stalkers, Elec for Tankers, Ice and/or Elec for Scrappers, some kind of elemental or weather Primary for MMs, and something else nice for Brutes (because I love them so very much, but can't talk myself into a 3rd 50 Elec/Elec).
Yeah. Awesome. I'll also never ever set foot in a PvP zone unless I'm working on badges for Villain Accolades or farming temp powers at 4am on an otherwise deserted server... but that really wouldn't change anything even if PvP were a magnificently balanced masterpiece of game design.
@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[/ QUOTE ]Add Foc Acc and you got a winner!
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
[ QUOTE ]
/SR brutes though? If you maintain the normal porting (which we dont have numbers yet, so this is only assumption which carries its own risks) you are talking about Super reflexes performing less well than normal super reflexes. lets say 90% of normal for laughs. Granted wailers Sonics and the Longbow sonic grenade dont hurt you as bad, overall I see these guys face planting quite a bit until the higher levels. I dont even want to think of the endurance costs from the multiple toggles, almost nil resistances, no heal what so ever...this is really just a bad idea, I think testing will prove it.
[/ QUOTE ]
It should just be a direct port with no changes to numbers.
The Resistance/Defense Scaler for Brutes' Secondaries is the same as Scrapper/Stalker sets.
(Compare Brute Willpower numbers to Stalker/Scrapper numbers. They're the same.)
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
[ QUOTE ]
AFAICT, not all villains are calling doom. Just a certain group - the ones that always cry doom. So really, is it to be taken seriously, or is it just another round of Chicken Little?
That's just my observation.
[/ QUOTE ]
It would seem alot of the people crying doom villain side are PvPers. And hopefully, they wont shaft the pve play of these sets because of the complaints of some pvpers.
Purrfectly Innocent - Ice/Ice Domi
"Ice...as beautiful as it is deadly. Maybe that is why I love it so."
How does empathy not work as a concept for a villain. If you want to get techincal empath, the hellion in the Marvel comics was a villian...The conceptual abilities do not drive good an evil. AB turns doms into perma dom killing machines. How is absorb pain not a villain concept. Perhaps an evil empath would love to absorb the pain of others...Empath buffs are hands down the best buffs in the game - change the color, change the name but give them to the red side.
The Villains didn' get it so bad
Corruptor
New Primary - Electrical Blast - Will be fun to see in red, but altogether not that great, I will give you that.
New Secondary - Storm Summoning - This is a money maker for villains, I think you got something great here.
Dominator
New Primary - Earth Control - This is only going to make the red side that much better, and add a gang load of control to it.
New Secondary - Electricity Manipulation - Until we see what it is, hard to say, but not life changing, but good for concepts.
Mastermind:
New Secondary - Storm Summoning - mix this with ranged Minions, and you are unstoppable, pull your bots in close fire off hurricane, and watch the carnage. This is Uber
Brute:
New Primary - Battle Axe & War Mace - Here are the weapon based attacks that brutes have been wanting, and they are good sets.
New Secondary - Super Reflexes - This is a great Brute set, with the massive def to everything, and the follow up resistance, plus the +recharge will be great for fury building, you got an auto mini hasten
Stalker:
New Primary - Electric Melee - Ok for both of these I will have to see what the powers are, because this is a AoE multi target set, which could be crappy for villains, so this is a wait and see
New Secondary - Electric Armor
So the red side, did pretty well, it is just that you lost the monopoly on some great sets. You got some really good ones though, so you didn't get screwed on what you got, you got screwed on what went to the blue side. WHich you already knew was going to happen, so you really didn't get screwed at all, well except for stalkers, but hey, from what I read on your forums, you are used to it
[ QUOTE ]
And hopefully, they wont shaft the pve play of these sets because of the complaints of some pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]I actually agree with you believe it or not. Both sides PvE and PVP should always be given an equal look. Then again maybe it should be 60/40, I dunno.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
[ QUOTE ]
Back in Issue 5 I used to joke about a fire scrapper.
I am SO THERE.
[/ QUOTE ]
I remember this thread about bread scrappers. It was hilarious.
Yummy Toast!
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I am totally excited, but yet totally PO'd about this. I would like to see a red name explain why heros get cold and therm and villains get double storm. No emp. And if they even once thought hmmm how would this affect PVP. A bots storm mm sounds fun. but cmon now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because /emp is lame and simplistic?
/ducks
...
I'm quite glad villains don't get emp, it's too much of a crutch for people still stuck in wow mode. I think thermal is a much more in line with what a set with heals should be in the CoH/CoV world.
I love all the pvp whining, keep it up! Man, I wish they'd never added pvp to this game; the amount of whining clamoring for pvp was so much less than all the random post-pvp whining.
For those that keep saying that villains got shafted - as far as new toy wise, remember that villains have the VEATs this issue too.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
YES !!!!!!!! Ice/Cold Defender
YES !!!!!!!! Psychice Blaster
YAY !!! Thermal Radiation.. I can finally make a Fire/Fire Controller !!!!
Electric/Kinetic Corruptor ???!!!! hmmmmm
Electric/Rad Corruptor ??!!!! hmmmmmmm
more fun for me..
well bye bye..
must go get villian to 50 !!!!!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
[ QUOTE ]
How does empathy not work as a concept for a villain. If you want to get techincal empath, the hellion in the Marvel comics was a villian...The conceptual abilities do not drive good an evil. AB turns doms into perma dom killing machines. How is absorb pain not a villain concept. Perhaps an evil empath would love to absorb the pain of others...Empath buffs are hands down the best buffs in the game - change the color, change the name but give them to the red side.
[/ QUOTE ]
They did, it is called Thermal Radiation, but the blue side just got that too
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[/ QUOTE ]Add Foc Acc and you got a winner!
[/ QUOTE ]
Done, and Hibernate for an even dozen per Patron.
[ QUOTE ]
For those that keep saying that villains got shafted - as far as new toy wise, remember that villains have the VEATs this issue too.
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah I am really excited about the VEATs, hopefully they fit the bill for many of us. Our SG is gonna roll like 20+ of these things and get them up to RV specs. Should be a fun invasion. When we get chased we will hide in the mobs.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think they could have released a list of sets that would have made the community happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope.
To be honest, I think some of us (me included) had some unrealistic expectations. I really wanted EM/Nin for scrappers. I knew deep down this was most likely not going to happen, but I deluded myself into thinking it may. I don't think I am the only one who did, and that is where a lot of the doom comes from. The up side as many others have said is, this is just the first round. I will keep my fingers crossed that EM/ can be balanced so that scrappers can have it.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I am totally excited, but yet totally PO'd about this. I would like to see a red name explain why heros get cold and therm and villains get double storm. No emp. And if they even once thought hmmm how would this affect PVP. A bots storm mm sounds fun. but cmon now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because /emp is lame and simplistic?
/ducks
...
I'm quite glad villains don't get emp, it's too much of a crutch for people still stuck in wow mode. I think thermal is a much more in line with what a set with heals should be in the CoH/CoV world.
I love all the pvp whining, keep it up! Man, I wish they'd never added pvp to this game; the amount of whining clamoring for pvp was so much less than all the random post-pvp whining.
For those that keep saying that villains got shafted - as far as new toy wise, remember that villains have the VEATs this issue too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't use VEATS as a reason for anything.
VEATS only made it into I12 because of all the $$$ NCNC got from selling Wedding packs. VEATS weren't even initially planned for I12.
You're forgetting that VEATS only got Villains EQUAL to Heroes. Khelds have been around FOREVER.
If I was a Villain only person, or a die hard PvP'er, I'd be through the roof. Even as a primarily PvE player, I'm still a little sore.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[/ QUOTE ]Add Foc Acc and you got a winner!
[/ QUOTE ]
Done, and Hibernate for an even dozen per Patron.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, you forgot Telekinesis, Earth's Embrace, and Fireball
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[/ QUOTE ]Add Foc Acc and you got a winner!
[/ QUOTE ]
Make it so.
Be well, people of CoH.
*jawdrop
Fire/Fire/Dark Scrappers!
Enuf said
.
*jawdrop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, they can't just shoehorn the best powers of the Blaster Manipulation sets (for example: Conserve Power, Boost Range and Power Boost) into any of the Villains sets. Archetype design, Energy Manipulation and APPs are the things that are causing the imbalance you bemoan, not "the heroes are getting our good powers."
[/ QUOTE ]
So just add Conserve Power, Boost Range, Power Boost/Build Up, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature and Indomitable Will to each of the Patrons. This way each patron has ten powers to offer. Also eliminating the can't repec out of Patron Choice problem.
Problem solved.
Poison Pill
[/ QUOTE ]Add Foc Acc and you got a winner!
[/ QUOTE ]
Make it so.
[/ QUOTE ]Whos number 1 on the dev team?
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
Ugh. Well, I'm not going to go off on any doom tangents before I've had a chance to see these in action firsthand, to say nothing of seeing what tweaks have occurred gamewide in I12. But initial reaction? Someone's been spiking the water coolers at NCNC.
[ QUOTE ]
Blaster
New Primary - Psychic Blast
New Secondary - Mental Manipulation
[/ QUOTE ]
Deep, deep reservations here, for the same reasons that have been brought up a zillion times. It's heartening to read Castle will be keeping a "very close eye" on it, but not very much, if only because of the time factor. Datamining takes time, and without datamining there's always the risk of poorly-tested kneejerk changes like we saw in the bad old days. On top of which the place this is most likely to be totally broken is PvP, and PvP-only issues have a long, long, long history of being ignored, backburnered, or casually dismissed. If that were not the case, I feel pretty damn sure EM would not have remained essentially unchanged for four years. My only hope there is the new hires.
[ QUOTE ]
Corruptor
New Primary - Electrical Blast
New Secondary - Storm Summoning
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay Storm. Elec...well, elec is thematically appropriate, I guess...
[ QUOTE ]
Controller
New Primary - Plant Control
New Secondary - Thermal Radiation
[/ QUOTE ]
...except apparently the "thematic pair" thing is totally gone by the wayside. Both fine sets, but I'm getting a very "lol, faction parity" vibe here.
[ QUOTE ]
Dominator
New Primary - Earth Control
New Secondary - Electricity Manipulation
[/ QUOTE ]
I assume that's supposed to be Electric Assault. That...has potential. That has potential to be awesome. That also has potential to suck, like, a lot. Too early to call.
Earth is, at least, an incredibly powerful PvE set.
Defender:
[ QUOTE ]
New Primary - Cold Domination
New Secondary - Ice Blast
[/ QUOTE ]
Called it. Also, "lol, faction parity." At least the slows won't be any stronger than the corruptor version, though pretty much everything else will.
[ QUOTE ]
Mastermind:
New Secondary - Storm Summoning
[/ QUOTE ]
The good MMs are going to be so far beyond indestructible it will pass through "not even funny" and emerge into a new, uncharted realm of hilarity. The bad MMs are going to be so bad they'll make the bad MMs of today look like a fusion of Sun Tzu and Stephen Hawking.
[ QUOTE ]
Brute:
New Primary - Battle Axe
New Primary - War Mace
New Secondary - Super Reflexes
[/ QUOTE ]
Weapon sets, yay. Long, long overdue.
SR...*sigh*. I've done SR once, and will never do it again because I strongly dislike sets that really, really want you to take everything, not because all the powers are compelling but because all the powers are virtually required to achieve something resembling functional parity with every other set.
[ QUOTE ]
Stalker:
New Primary - Electric Melee
New Secondary - Electric Armor
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love to be proven wrong, but having played an ElM/ElA to 45 I cannot see any way that Elec Melee for stalkers will not utterly Fail It. No matter which two powers get yanked for AS and Placate (please for the love of all that's holy let one of them be Chain Induction), I can't see how the set's not going to end up even weaker than the brute version, which already needs help in my opinion. Single-target damage is really quite disheartening--the biggest ST attack in the set is really an AoE and it's saddled with far, far too long an animation for the damage it does--and AoEs are not guaranteed criticals. In fact, the set has exactly two single-target attacks, strictly speaking. On top of which, the first two powers are too sluggish to go for a chainsaw build, like tends to happen with DM. Lightning Rod is awesome, but the 90 second recharge blunts a lot of its appeal for me.
ElA has a lot of nice points, but being so very, very heavily reliant on pure resistance seems like a poor match for stalkers as an AT. A least it gets respectable psi resists.
[ QUOTE ]
Tank:
New Primary - Dark Armor
New Secondary - Dark Melee
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have had elec, but no complaints.
[ QUOTE ]
Scrapper:
New Primary - Fiery Melee
New Secondary - Fiery Aura
[/ QUOTE ]
Conceptually speaking, this is neat and I approve.
Practically speaking, a fire/fire scrapper, with scrapper-level damage and scrapper-level damage buffs (unless it's changed, Fiery Embrace is going to be a 125% buff to fire damage), is going to melt a hole in the planet.
Overall? Meh. lol, faction parity. C, maybe C+. Now I can't decide if I should get my hopes up for VEATs and risk disappointment, or set my expectations somewhere in the subbasement and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
It seems typical of the forums of late. Devs say were getting 20 powersets ported over, and people cannot seem to find the good in this. The list gets announced and the first 30 posts all seem to be "OMG DEV HATEZ VLZ< I GONNA CRI NOW!"
*sigh*
I don't think they could have released a list of sets that would have made the community happy.
Crime of Fashion Level 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter
My Toons
My Rad/Rad Corrupters Guide
Mindscape - Reworking