Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Luminous Blast
Bright Nova
Luminous Aura
White Dwarf
Umbral Blast
Dark Nova
Umbral Aura
Black Dwarf
Psychic Blast
Mental Manipulation
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Villains
VEAT primary 1
VEAT primary 2
VEAT secondary 1
VEAT secondary 2
Electric Assault
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Since you felt the need to include a set that cannot be added to heroes like the mastermind pets I think I should include the extra forms given by the hero epic AT. ... I think this is the stupidest post I have ever done; however a stupid post gets a stupid reply.
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Hey, you almost had it. Remember, the Villain Epic Archetypes also have additional form sets: Fortunata, Night Widow, Crab Dude, and the other one. Add those back in and call it a day: and villains still win, man.
I didn't include 'em the first time around because I knew somebody would be whiny enough to mention it. Wanna list the all the 41-49 power pools too? Or hasn't the argument got stupid enough yet?
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Don't forget that if we're allowing the Kheldian forms as separate powersets, then surely the set of powers for each Mastermind pet type counts. That's 15 more villain sets (oh, wait--16; mustn't forget the ghost). Then we can count a set each for all the Controller and Dominator pets that aren't shared--Controllers get a little edge there from Illusion, but then we have to consider Gang War, which acts more like a mass Cont/Dom pet. Poor Dark Fluffy is on both sides, so he doesn't count.
Yeah. This got silly in a hurry.
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lmao
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
I was hoping for a Broadsword for Brutes. I don't like Axes too much and the idea of cleaving through people with a big sword seemed very brute like to me.
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Devices is a Blaster secondary, which was supposed to be excluded from this list. Arguably, also, Ninja Blade and Katana are near clones of each other.
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Why exclude devices? It is a set that villains do not get.
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Didn't we already do this argument?
Because there is no light-control-plus-melee Archetype on Villain-side, that's why. It doesn't map across directly to any Archetype.
If you include Devices as a set that Villains don't have, you have to include all Blaster secondaries, all Dominator secondaries, all Mastermind primaries, Kheldian and VEAT powers, and all Stalker seconaries (because they're not exactly the same as Scrapper secondaries). The list gets long and ridiculous. Didn't you see it? 
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This is fun! I want to hear more whining like this. Whos with me?
NEXT PROLIFERATION REVEALED:
Heroes
Blasters: Radiation Blast, Dark Blast + Radiation Melee, Dark Melee, Traps
Controllers: Electric Control, Water Control, Sandstorm Control + Poison, Thermal Radiation
Defenders: Cold Healing + Fire Blast, Assault Rifle, Laser Beam Rifle
Scrappers: Street Fighting, Knife Fighting, Super Strength + Shield Defense
Tankers: Shield Defense, Electric Armor, Energy Aura + Electric Melee
Villains
Brutes: Pillow Armor + Sock Puppet Melee
Corruptors: Fingers Shaped Like A Gun Pretending To Blast + Trick Arrow
Dominators: Paper Clip Domination + Origami Assault (now with Paper Airplane blast!)
Masterminds: Citizen Mastermind (3 harlots, 2 cops, and 1 doctor, all of whom run away from danger when summoned) + Managed HMO Healing (10K influence co-pay per heal, power takes 30 minutes to activate, 3 day recharge, by appointment only, some injuries not covered)
Stalkers: Pie Assault, Food Fight Melee + Armour Hot Dog
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OMG. FURTHER PROOF TEH DEVS HATZORS!!11!! VILLAINS.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
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Why are stalkers the only AT in the whole game that their inherent power takes up a power slot?
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Since when is Hide an inherent power? Their inherent power is Assassination, which is basically Scrapper criticals.
If you're gonna count Hide as an inherent, then Stalkers have two inherents: they get Scrapper inherent criticals and Hide. Is that fair that they get two?
And if you don't count criticals as an inherent, then Scrappers don't get any inherent.
Count it however you like, you're still only seeing what you want to see.
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Devices is a Blaster secondary, which was supposed to be excluded from this list. Arguably, also, Ninja Blade and Katana are near clones of each other.
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Why exclude devices? It is a set that villains do not get.
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SOTO,
Wich Villain ATs should get Devices ported over as is with no changes?
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
scrappers still don't get em its not fair 
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Devices (Cloak, Perception, ToHit) > Traps ( Hold, Debuff) - IMO
[/ QUOTE ]All I can say to this is ROFLMAFO. OMG I needed that laugh. If you think Cloak, or Perception, or ToHit is better than PT, acid Mortar, or even FFG then you are a bloody fool.
Dr. Brainstorm,
I keep hearing everyone complaining about villians not getting Illusion and Masterminds not getting a primary. I was just thinking that Illusion would make a great Primary for mastermind. The tweaking would be extensive. But something too look at.
1 - Spectral Wounds
1 - Phantom Army
2 - Propel (from Gravity... make some of the damage heal back like spectral wounds)
6 - Solidify (see below for what it adds to minions)
8 - Group Invisibilty
12 - Spectral Terror
18 - Agnise (see below for what it adds to minions)
26 - Phantasm
32 - Psychic Scream (From Dominator Psionic)
You would have to tweak the minions powers... (more damage but have some of it heal back in time to keep the feel)
Basic Minion Art would sorta look partially invised. Solidify would make them solid. Agnize would give them an aura.
Marshal Wagner BS/SR Level 50
Mistress Delight Drk/Drk Level 50
Golden Coy EL/EL Level 42
Helreginn's Hammer WH/WP Level 42
well from the desc,not really excited, I was in the beta and understand the ice control for brutes,as i do alomt a grand total of .01% PVP balence means nothing to me
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
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Which Villain ATs should get Devices ported over as is with no changes?
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Stalkers 
(well... Cloaking device replaced with Practiced Brawler for obvious reasons)
Just trust me on this one... I've spent well over 200 hours PvP'ing on a Traps Corruptor and it's basically just a really weak "Devices stalker" with 1 really powerful PbAoE based effect that might as well be an assassin's strike once it takes effect...
Not sure whether it's been asked already, but not seen a dev answer, do scrappers get the brute or the tank version of fire melee ? ie cremate or combustion ?
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Devices is a Blaster secondary, which was supposed to be excluded from this list. Arguably, also, Ninja Blade and Katana are near clones of each other.
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Why exclude devices? It is a set that villains do not get.
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Didn't we already do this argument?
Because there is no light-control-plus-melee Archetype on Villain-side, that's why. It doesn't map across directly to any Archetype.
If you include Devices as a set that Villains don't have, you have to include all Blaster secondaries, all Dominator secondaries, all Mastermind primaries, Kheldian and VEAT powers, and all Stalker seconaries (because they're not exactly the same as Scrapper secondaries). The list gets long and ridiculous. Didn't you see it?
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To be honest I dont even know what we are talking about anymore. 
I guess it comes down to personal opinion and I feel like CoX PvP is being changed in a big way. I guess I have to see how the beta test comes out and the VEAT to decide How I truely feel about this update and decide if I would like to continue playing CoV.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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But the Heal is the same AMOUNT i should have said, not behaviorally, at least I believe so.
Twilight grasp does work when mobs fall, transfusion doesnt....which still makes no sense. Wonder if BAB/Castle could look into that one as a minor issue.
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I think it's because dead mobs don't have any endurance, while TG applies a debuff.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I'm so excited to try out these new power combos to see if they have any cool synergies. Plant controller, woohoo. I can add yet another alt to my existing 20
Thanks for the new sets!
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Why are stalkers the only AT in the whole game that their inherent power takes up a power slot?
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Since when is Hide an inherent power? Their inherent power is Assassination, which is basically Scrapper criticals.
If you're gonna count Hide as an inherent, then Stalkers have two inherents: they get Scrapper inherent criticals and Hide. Is that fair that they get two?
And if you don't count criticals as an inherent, then Scrappers don't get any inherent.
Count it however you like, you're still only seeing what you want to see.
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Not trying to start another arguement, but when does Assassination work?
A. When Hidden or Placated
Ever AS out of hide? you will do no more that 90 points of damage. I dont even like stalkers so I guess you win ....lol
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Disappointed, overall.
I'm glad to see Mind Manipulation made it in: that's one prediction of mine (I didn't think they'd go to the effort) I'm glad to see didn't pan out (Though Blasters still need a modified Trick Arrows at some point)
Elec/Storm Corruptors were expected and are welcome... but Storm seems like such a bonehead choice for MMs. Not only is there such a deficiency of thematic synergy, but tactical synergy as well. Sonics would have been overpowering, I do understand that, and Rad or Kin doubly so... but Empathy would have made such a good MM set BOTH thematically and tactically AND would have helped balance the PvP equation. Oh well.
Would an Electrical Control set really have been that hard to put together? We've got the STImmob, AoEImmob, Holds, Stuns, Sleep, and even a nice looking electrical Gremlin pet. Bah.
Electrical Stalkers? Broadsword would have been a stronger choice, and would have been cool with the upcoming shields.
SR Brutes? Eeew. I know regen was a longshot and all, but since blasters are getting psi I figured maybe there was some rethingking of the balance equations going on.
Fire Scrappers: Cool. Dark Tankers: Solid. */Fire Controllers: Excellent. Cold Defs: Good.
How many people feel the villains got the shaft in a pretty big way here?
When I saw that Stalkers were getting Electrical Melee, the first thing that popped into my head was:
Hide + BU + Lightning Rod.
This is what I would like to see!
Tank
New Primary - Electric Melee
New Secondary - Electric Armor
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Which Villain ATs should get Devices ported over as is with no changes?
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Stalkers (well... Cloaking device replaced with Practiced Brawler for obvious reasons)
Just trust me on this one... I've spent well over 200 hours PvP'ing on a Traps Corruptor and it's basically just a really weak "Devices stalker" with 1 really powerful PbAoE based effect that might as well be an assassin's strike once it takes effect...
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Thats the point I was going to make when/if I got an answer to my question. Devices/Traps are basically the same set with a few powers that were changed out.
I do feel some sympathy for the plight of the Villain PvPer.
However as far as I'm concerned with PvE, I like the list. There are a few things I would have done differently.
Ice/Ice for Stalkers
Empathy for MMs as a second proliferated Secondary.
Elec/Elec for Tanks
Cold for Controllers
Also knowing that this is just the 1st round of proliferation helps ease my want of an Elec/Elec Tank.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
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villains got PWNED once again... gg devs
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Why are stalkers the only AT in the whole game that their inherent power takes up a power slot?
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Since when is Hide an inherent power? Their inherent power is Assassination, which is basically Scrapper criticals.
If you're gonna count Hide as an inherent, then Stalkers have two inherents: they get Scrapper inherent criticals and Hide. Is that fair that they get two?
And if you don't count criticals as an inherent, then Scrappers don't get any inherent.
Count it however you like, you're still only seeing what you want to see.
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They don't get scrapper crits - for an out-of-hide/placate crit, a stalker's target has to be held or stunned.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Hi all,
As a vetran of almost 3 yrs now, exclusively playing COH and only PVE, I was really hoping for much more from this latest installment.
So villians didnt get anything but, Epics lol. Atleast thats something if I was a villian I would be happy.
I'll bet they spent 50-75% of the time for this issue on the villian epics. Sure seems like it to me.
As far as I can tell the heroes may have gotten more powersets but to me they got nothing of value this issue.
Why? Because none of the new hero powersets interest me in the least. Tankers- No electric thats what Tankers want.
Scrapper- Fire. LOL thats what fire tanker is a scrapper. Another useless powerset. The other AT's---- nothing good offered not worth discussing.
Villians dont care dont play them , PVP dont care either.
When is next installment, hope it come before Champions Online.
This is wrong direction for powerset prolification.
They would be better served in making a new generic powerset for each AT that was a clone of one of the current powersets except you would be able to costomize the colors .
That way you could have orange or green power blasts, radiation sheild (fire tanker), negative energy (fire troller) or radiation armor(dark armor) for scrapper.
Id rather have a nerfed version of a powerset I liked than a port of one that I had no desire for. To me it seems useless to port over this stuff since it seems those responding to the announcement seem to be underwhelmed by the new options.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
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Corruptors: Fingers Shaped Like A Gun Pretending To Blast + Trick Arrow
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Shoot, as long as I actually get TA, you can pretend whatever you like with your fingers.
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Dominators: Paper Clip Domination + Origami Assault (now with Paper Airplane blast!)
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I want this so bad it's not even funny, and that's not a joke. Well, the Origami Assault.
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Masterminds: Citizen Mastermind (3 harlots, 2 cops, and 1 doctor, all of whom run away from danger when summoned)
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So pretty much the exact AI we have now, except doing exactly what it's supposed to?
Okay, no, in all seriousness, the whining's annoying...but at the same time, Devs, have you considered Origami Assault? >.>
<.<
>.>
"Some people wrestle with their inner demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder." - Black Mage
"We've trained you better than for you to use excuses like 'I didn't have control over what I was doing!'" - Major Tasker, Longbow