Cross-faction teaming: Probation and Duress
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2008-03-13 14:56 in Suggestions and Ideas
i actually read it with my amazing reading skills that can overpower wall-o-text
Its an excellent idea. 10/10. I honestly can't think of anything off the top of my head that would sabotage this.
Although i would say that pvping shouldnt be allowed. I find it strange that a villian/hero would fight on the opposite faction agianst their own, this would also make pvp too random and factionless.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Not Bad At all...Duress would be sort of a "Jack Bauer" kinda thing...Hero has no choice but to play along...
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
Tl;dr, buuuut I did skim it and got the gist of your suggestion. Great idea!
@.MIDAS
BIG BROTHER MIDAS, Ice/Ice Dominator, 1314 Badges
* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me
*
I definitely like the idea.
some possible suggestions,
Have hero corp. be the main contact for both sides? It would give the Devs an opportunity to go in-depth with their story as the 'grey hero group'.
Also perhaps have a main 'lobby' setup (al la midnighters club) for both sides to gather. From there you could log into a terminal and see who can switch over.
Opening the availability by completing a mini arc, (Invention quest?). doing so unlock a badge, (that flags that you would be willing to do cross- content. I do like the idea of using the team interface to find outherside players though..
~ I am Mender Sirbil Xe I do not know who this Ex Libris is that you speak of. ~
This would be great, I think. Definitely a good addition to the game... my characters tend to be more of a grey area than black or white anyway, so this would be perfect for them.
/signed
great idea, I love it.
I read way back that someone would prefer this to a true cross-over/side switch. but what if you do too many of these? Couldn't that mean your toon has been "corrupted" by either side? Eventually leading to the vil/hero switching sides?
Tell the truth I wouldn't mind my MM swaping over. Maybe drop you a few levels while they're at it so you'd have to play a bit on either side, not just rocket a 50 over from one side to the other.
Great Idea overall..and I really like using Hero Corps more. The one thing that sort of bugs me is how Hero Corps sort of vanishes in the late game story line. It seems like they would be more involved in the goings on in Paragon and the Rouge Isles.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
I had a very similar idea but it was 'going undercover'. Like you said each toon would have a contact in their own 'home land' who sends them off to the opposite faction in order to run missions. There would be no need to have a sponser from the other side but once there you could invite other toons to help you out (if they so choose).
Of course once you cross over you could not attack the opposite faction (if I am hero and went to CoV I couldn't sit out side of Mercy and toast all the lvl one+ villian toons or vise versa)
The other thing I would have to suggest is that this be limited to lvl 50 toons for more high level content.
[edit addition] This would protect the toon from becomming corrupted and permenent side switching...however, when a hero crosses over then all the npc's (IE Longbow Agents and Security and PPD) will attack on site just like if you were a villian.
I also suggest that once there you can only perform those specific missions but you could street hunt or GM hunt (for badge sake).
I like this idea. Fun stuff!
This idea is awesome. Story-wise, I can see the justification for the idea of the level locking, but playwise, I would want to bring my high level toons across lines to team with lower level characters. The idea of blackmail, or a 'mutually beneficial, but temporary arrangement' works for forcing higher level toons to help their lower level 'enemies'.
Also, why are so many people so opposed to fully realized, well thought out, and well written ideas? Good grief people, if you don't want to read, what are you doing in a forum in the first place?
Big thumbs up, and major kudos on a great idea. I particularly enjoyed the short story that prefaced it - now I want to know more about Thundra, Hyperton, and Giganaut.
Alot to Read But eh why NOT. If a Villain has to save Baby New year(what kind of villain would do this?!) why couldn't he /she also betray his/her own sector(even if being forced by 'probation')
It is a well developed Idea and many people want more team ups with the alt side. Why shouldn't we get to choose the storyline?
/signed 
I do find the concept somewhat fun, but for some reason I don't like it. I don't often remember heroes doing wrong because of duress or not main heroes at least. Maybe the second hand heroes that I don't remember the names of. The main heroes might have pretended until they did something to the ones causing them duress, but they never actually helped them completely. Then there were vigilantes, who sort of took justice as they saw fit. And As far as villains ever doing good, it was usually only for times they saw they could get an advantage by doing something dastardly towards the end of the story.
This is all based on what I remember from Original comics I have read. I'll admit there is nothing stating that City of Heroes follows all comics style or concepts. I really think that the only time Heros and Villains would work together is when it involved a mutual enemy. Like the RWZ Mothership Raid, or the Pocket D Snaptooth Missions from father time. Even though I don't see these making sense in my opinion. I can see probation working. Sure some bad guys do turn good and some good guys do go bad. Although I cant think of anyexcept for spiderman, but there was an alien symbiote involved. But heroes and villains normall only work together when the world itself is at stake.
But Like I said, the concept for it sounds fun, just in my opinion the stories to each aspect don't make sense based upon my history with comic stories.
"Heroes Today, Legends Forever"
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My Base
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I do find the concept somewhat fun, but for some reason I don't like it. I don't often remember heroes doing wrong because of duress or not main heroes at least. Maybe the second hand heroes that I don't remember the names of. The main heroes might have pretended until they did something to the ones causing them duress, but they never actually helped them completely.
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Let's be honest, there's a LOT of missions redside where the objective at the end is hardly evil - or even selfish!
Hero: "So - you want me to help you stop an insane priest at the head of an army of brainwashed Freakshow from reviving a terrible Leviathan which will probably, if released, consume the entire civilized world. And you think you need to go through some complicated blackmail scheme to get me to come along?"
Villain: "Well, he wants to make me a human sacrifice first, and I didn't want you to think I was, you know, wimpy or something."
@Mindshadow
You got my vote. Dang but that's nicely lain out!
"I want Johnny Sonata to open his Moon Casino so we can have some damn Wailers on the Moon." - Johnny_Butane
"The vet reward for 1200 months of play is we move the servers into your house." - BackAlleyBrawler
I don't know why they don't just expand on the Praetorian Earth concept in the game.
If you want to play a mastermind on the hero side, why can't you just play the Praetorian Earth version of yourself? Then, if you have a favorite archetype, you can play him through both the hero and villian content.
At the very least, the Ouroboros Portal should allow you to play the Praetorian version of yourself.
Me like!
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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I do find the concept somewhat fun, but for some reason I don't like it. I don't often remember heroes doing wrong because of duress or not main heroes at least. Maybe the second hand heroes that I don't remember the names of. The main heroes might have pretended until they did something to the ones causing them duress, but they never actually helped them completely. Then there were vigilantes, who sort of took justice as they saw fit. And As far as villains ever doing good, it was usually only for times they saw they could get an advantage by doing something dastardly towards the end of the story.
This is all based on what I remember from Original comics I have read. I'll admit there is nothing stating that City of Heroes follows all comics style or concepts. I really think that the only time Heros and Villains would work together is when it involved a mutual enemy. Like the RWZ Mothership Raid, or the Pocket D Snaptooth Missions from father time. Even though I don't see these making sense in my opinion. I can see probation working. Sure some bad guys do turn good and some good guys do go bad. Although I cant think of anyexcept for spiderman, but there was an alien symbiote involved. But heroes and villains normall only work together when the world itself is at stake.
But Like I said, the concept for it sounds fun, just in my opinion the stories to each aspect don't make sense based upon my history with comic stories.
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I immediately think of Harvey Dent and Obadiah Stane from the two big comic book movies this summer. Good guys that went bad.
Magneto is a great example of the flip side.
I love the whole idea. I would have to open the bio of any "changer" at once. (You HAVE to write a bio for this, don't you? 
)
I hope this hasn't already been brought up--as my eyes are a bit buggy from all the posts (though I did read the orig in its entirety)...
I think one of the biggest counterarguments to this idea is the thematic element. That, and, "we already have too much co-op!". Here's a tack-on solution to the first (and maybe the second):
It would make sense to me to only allow ONE hero/villain in a team of the opposite faction at a time, and maybe having a minimum of 2 or 3 for the team size before taking the member under duress/probation. That also, I think, goes along with the original intent behind the sk/lk idea. Thematically, now you have a hero that obviously isn't going to take on 3-7 villains, so he's going to go along with their evil plot until he has an opportunity for backup or escape. Or maybe he's undercover. Never mind that said hero is probably shouting out "woot! grats on ur lvl!" or "sb pls!" lol.
I think it's a great idea overall. Not to mention, how awesome would it be to go hand-in-hand with architect?
Kudos!
Xason
"Begin with the End in mind" - Covey
Arc #1270 The Death of Xason Mushu
Arc #15364 Frostfire's Plea
Almost forgot: Badges.
I see two solutions here. One is simple. Don't allow heroes to collect villain badges and vice versa. After all, why do I want a badge saying I helped break up the dockworkers strike? Or defeated a Hero?
On the other hand, I will admit it would be cool to say I left my footprint on the Isles... or in Paragon as a villain. So now that badges are categorized in the dropdown (quite handy, given the ridiculous amount that are available), perhaps exploration badges should be available, and a category could be added like "badges of shame" or "dishonorable" or whatnot, where mission accomplishments could go, to wear like a scarlet letter.
Definitely no accolades though--they are basically mirror images of the opposite faction's accolades anyhow.
"Begin with the End in mind" - Covey
Arc #1270 The Death of Xason Mushu
Arc #15364 Frostfire's Plea
LAZINESS WARNING: I went through four pages, and I'm not gonna go through six more to find a particular sentence. I'm also not gonna spend twenty minutes using Search while trying to think up every word that's a synonym of- or similar to- the word "clone". Therefore, warning, possibly-already-asked dumb question ahead.
Wouldn't it make more sense from both an efficiency (and possibly business-model) standpoint to simply "clone" all or most of the non-CoOp, non-PVP zones in the game and turn them in to CoOps?
It/they could then be released as a package. Perhaps a "one new zone from each side" tacked on to the [censored]-end of an Issue, or as one or two issues containing all zones, or even released commercially as a paid expansion pack.
~Shrugs~
My post count was low, so I figured I'd just throw that out there.
EDIT: Oh, btw, I do love the idea. Apologies to the OP if it seemed like I was trying to kill it.
The Devs will incorporate this type of change to the game.
It is not a question of if, but when.
I am not stating opinion.
It is fact.
The Devs will make this type of change to the game or else.
I am not making a threat.
I am stating a fact.
MMOs aren't excluded from the basic rule of nature.
Evolve.
Adapt to fulfill the needs of the customer base.
Evolve.
Or perish into the midsts of gaming history and lore.
Great idea, though from a role-play perspective "Probation" makes a lot more sense than "Duress". In comics heros that join villains under duress are usually just setting them up, or they go all the way and never return to heroics. Villains on the other hand often have some good cause they are interested in; maybe they only turned to crime to pay for their sick child's medical bills, or maybe in their mind they are some sort of twisted Robin Hood fighting the establishment. Or maybe they are a villain just because it's fun, in which case they'll do good when good is fun too.
Good idea though.
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Great idea, though from a role-play perspective "Probation" makes a lot more sense than "Duress". In comics heros that join villains under duress are usually just setting them up, or they go all the way and never return to heroics. Villains on the other hand often have some good cause they are interested in; maybe they only turned to crime to pay for their sick child's medical bills, or maybe in their mind they are some sort of twisted Robin Hood fighting the establishment. Or maybe they are a villain just because it's fun, in which case they'll do good when good is fun too.
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I don't disagree. That said, I had to have some in-game/RPish explanation for why a hero would start helping villains beat up Sea Witch.
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Sticky by community request, when the topic see's its demise please notify and I will unstick.
Ex
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Hmm, I smell DOOOM
No, but, seriously, overall GOOD and THOUGHT OUT idea. I enjoy it.
-Bookkeeper Jay