Cross-faction teaming: Probation and Duress
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2008-03-13 14:56 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Agreed. /kicking should lead to immediate teleport, even when in a PvP or even Co-Op zone.
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Gah -- /kicking should lead to a thirty second delayed teleport, not instant teleport -- so that in a potential team wipe situation, the leader of the team can't /kick the probate/duress character(s) to punch them out of danger.
That's what I meant. Really. Don't look at me like that.
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Frankly, I would handle it a bit differently: instead of going automatically into the Sponsor's team, he would go into the Sponsor's supergroup at the lowest level. A Duress or Probation character must not already be in a Supergroup, and cannot be promoted above the lowest rank.
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So all SG Leaders or other high ranked charcters (e.g. base designers) are banned from these type of missions? What about those who like to keep track of how much Inf they have earned for the SG? Are they forbidden as well?
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Yes, and for good reason. Allowing access to hero-side chat channels while still a member of villain-side opens up a number of potential problems.
Join Supergroup. Get recruited for the opposing faction; enter PVP zone. Use supergroup chat to instantly tell all your SG buddies where the villains are hiding. That's the first thing that occurs to my mind and there may be other abuses which would come to light.
You could bar the /recruited person from PVP, of course, but that just presents your same dilemma from a different camp: "so all PVPers are banned from these type of missions?"
Also, allowing any team leader to sponsor a person from the opposing side leads to spam and abuse. "Hey, look, an Empath! /recruit, /recruit, /recruit the unwilling Defender!" Making it part of a Supergroup function raises the bar if only slightly while giving the /recruited player a villain-side chat channel (VG) and access to base teleporters.
Temporary induction into an opposite-side SG or VG makes the transition more stable as well. If you're only on the opposite faction because of a single person who sponsors you, what if they lose connection, if they have to change a diaper, if they have to answer the phone, if there's a storm? What if your Internet goes flooie? You'd have to do the reconnect-re-recruit dance all over again.
/signed for the overall OP, wow! This would be game-enhancing big time.
I agree with Tiglath that PVP banning this idea to keep things clean would make it a total win... and as far as the level restriction, no real need?
Not a slam on PvP, but until the kinks were to be worked out, I just wouldn't want to open that can of snakes.
Mulling over the recruitment angles still...
back to work...
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Frankly, I would handle it a bit differently: instead of going automatically into the Sponsor's team, he would go into the Sponsor's supergroup at the lowest level. A Duress or Probation character must not already be in a Supergroup, and cannot be promoted above the lowest rank.
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So all SG Leaders or other high ranked charcters (e.g. base designers) are banned from these type of missions? What about those who like to keep track of how much Inf they have earned for the SG? Are they forbidden as well?
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Yes, and for good reason. Allowing access to hero-side chat channels while still a member of villain-side opens up a number of potential problems.
Join Supergroup. Get recruited for the opposing faction; enter PVP zone. Use supergroup chat to instantly tell all your SG buddies where the villains are hiding. That's the first thing that occurs to my mind and there may be other abuses which would come to light.
You could bar the /recruited person from PVP, of course, but that just presents your same dilemma from a different camp: "so all PVPers are banned from these type of missions?"
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The number of actual PvPers is small enough that this would actually have a negligible impact. However I'm ok with locking the probationary/duressed character out of comms from their native side. In fact, I'd even agree to going one step further and /Hide them when probationary/duressed.
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Also, allowing any team leader to sponsor a person from the opposing side leads to spam and abuse. "Hey, look, an Empath! /recruit, /recruit, /recruit the unwilling Defender!" Making it part of a Supergroup function raises the bar if only slightly while giving the /recruited player a villain-side chat channel (VG) and access to base teleporters.
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/Ignore solves the first problem, and base permissions set to allow team leader's team mates solves the second.
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Temporary induction into an opposite-side SG or VG makes the transition more stable as well. If you're only on the opposite faction because of a single person who sponsors you, what if they lose connection, if they have to change a diaper, if they have to answer the phone, if there's a storm? What if your Internet goes flooie? You'd have to do the reconnect-re-recruit dance all over again.
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I remember before TFs autoexempted the player, this was an issue. I feel that if this is implemented that as long as you are on a team with members of the opposing faction you should be allowed into the opposing zones, much like the auto exemp function works for TF/SF now. IOW it's a technical problem, let's use a technical solution rather than place artificial restrictions on the players.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
I wouldn't want this to become Supergroup only, however. I think leaving the possibility for PUGs would be a good thing.
I think restricting the Probationary/Duressed character from communicating with their native side while they're across the factional line is a good idea, however.
I think the best way to ensure we don't have cross-factional annoying recruiting going on is to only permit the transaction to take place at Wyvern/Hero Corps. To solicit players on the other side, you have to go through the terminal interface and can only talk to the folks on the other side of said interface.
Meh, I find that there is enough co-op missions as it is, and having all missions as possibly cooperative just seems to kill a lot of flavor. A hero helping Arachnos to capture a school teacher so that she can be tortured, and then going back to Paragon to save lives? There's a difference between the dark, brooding hero and a fake.
I like the idea. I like to think of duress as pulling the old jedi mind trick on a hero -- I can see my bots/dark mm saying "these aren't the droids you're looking for."
Lord Moros - 50 robots/dark mastermind
also: 50 ss/wp brute; 50 ice/rad corruptor; 50 fire/kin controller; 50 spines/wp scrapper; 50 fire/dark corruptor; 50 ss/fire brute; 50 fire/shield scrapper; 50 demons/dark mastermind; 43 katana/wp scrapper; 38 dark/shield scrapper; 40 broadsword/wp scrapper; 34 fire/wp scrapper
This idea gets the Artiste's Seal of Approval.
It's clever.
It fills a need that the playerbase has wanted filled for a good long time.
It builds upon existing game mechanics.
It builds upon existing game lore. I'm not entirely convinced that Wyvern would be so willing to be a party to such an arrangement, but I've no problem at all with Hero Corp being the "back door" to the Rogue Isles. That, at least, fits the game lore perfectly.
Great suggestion.
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Meh, I find that there is enough co-op missions as it is, and having all missions as possibly cooperative just seems to kill a lot of flavor. A hero helping Arachnos to capture a school teacher so that she can be tortured, and then going back to Paragon to save lives? There's a difference between the dark, brooding hero and a fake.
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That's why it's called "Duress".
"Ok Spidey, you help us rob this bank or you'll never see Mary Jane again!"
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
This is clearly going to become a love/hate suggestion.
Thought over recruitment.
If you and your group, any group (PUG, SG, casual mix of the two, anything) once assembled agree that you want to pursue this game mechanic, then there is no need to have any new strange in-game "let's look for a member of the opposing faction" interface... any of your team who wish to play probationarily or under duress could switch over and enter the cue. To flag themselves and thereby place themselves in this cue for this action they would simply change that part of the window we have now that says looking for any, missions, TFs, etc., to a new option created that would read depending on your existing faction (if there is one created) or "On Probation" or "Under Duress".
Heroside, when you speak to a contact at the dropsite, you will see a listing that shows all the Probationary villains... on the villain side, the dropsite contact will show you a list of heroes under Duress.
Using the contact to acquire these individuals is to eliminate people of the same faction from seeing you in the traditional search windows. (Obviously, a hero under duress has something important to take care of and may not want other heroes to inadvertantly cause a catastrophe by trying to help them unsolicited, and any villain trying to go straight or cooperate with the law might be hunted down by less scrupulous coworkers 
)
That seems to be a pretty good solution that would allow this idea to move forward with minimal distress to the devs and maximum impact on the game.
My God... isn't it beautiful.
/signed, sealed, and loved.
HOLY COW!!! I got a /signed and it only took 440 posts!
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The number of actual PvPers is small enough that this would actually have a negligible impact. However I'm ok with locking the probationary/duressed character out of comms from their native side. In fact, I'd even agree to going one step further and /Hide them when probationary/duressed.
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I don't know if I'd say that but it does bring up an interesting question. Can a Probationary/Duressed character see /tells from the other side at all? What happens to the setting "show/hide Hero/Villain chat" under these conditions?
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/Ignore solves the first problem, and base permissions set to allow team leader's team mates solves the second.
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I dunno, I think I'd rather see a toggle for "automatically reject all cross-faction recruitment." That way you can still be invited to missions on your own side, and still get /tells from the other side (if that option is on), but selectively reject invite spam from the other side.
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I remember before TFs autoexempted the player, this was an issue. I feel that if this is implemented that as long as you are on a team with members of the opposing faction you should be allowed into the opposing zones, much like the auto exemp function works for TF/SF now.
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But then you're cutting off probationary/duress characters from doing Strike Forces or Task Forces for the other side, aren't you? That's not a very good solution either.
I don't see where any limits other than if the counterfaction team member dissociates for more than two minutes they will automatically be recalled to the dropsite in their native zone. If that means the team is suddenly weakened, so be it.
sounds good to me. but what do i know
oh and ps. fourm n00b here WTF is tl;dr
I think it's "too long; didn't read"... but I don't use it so, meh...
Could use a paring down. I do think that the Lackey/Sidekick system should be used.
I think I'd get frustrated at 7 Villains running around under 'probation' in Kings Row. 4 would be pushing it.
But other than just a rewrite for brevity and clarity (ie. to sell it) the idea is pretty solid.
Still here, even after all this time!
Possibly add a "looking for crossover" flag to the lft drop menu? Readable to the opposing faction.
Great idea all around. While I agree sponsorship is core to this, supergroups and vgs should not be part of the mechanic. Too many team leaders either are non affiliated, do not have sg rank, or do not have a base.
Training, selling and teleportation could in most cases be routed through oroborous as the zone exists on both sides. This would enforce a minimum level of 25 however.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
I'm digging this idea. Hopefully the devs can do this or something similar.
I am loving this idea. I really hope this makes it in the game in the future, it sounds like loads of fun.
I don't think the flag should be able to be active during normal play. Hence the suggestion that the drop down be able to be seen only when speaking with the "dropsite" contacts.
It makes a little bit of sense, I suppose, to see who is on Probation or Duress in a normal circumstance, but remember that a hero or villain in this position/predicament would only be visible to those who have the dirt on them...
It's as much an RP suggestion as a viable mechanic.
That being said those commenting on this thread should read the thread in its entirety to have the best perspective on how to make this possible.
I am not trying to intentionally post to bump this thread, but I believe we should lobby for a sticky.
I guess my question is what should someone with that flag set be doing? Just cooling their heels waiting for a team? Or can they streetsweep, or maybe even run missions?
Howabout this? You have to go to the Probation/Duress contact to set the crossfaction flag, but after that you can run missions or whatever on your own side, and you are /hide from your own side.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
My thinking, not sure the OP sees it this way, is that you flag yourself at the contact; this would create a list accessible to the other side when they too are at the contact. Your own actions thereafter could continue; you're default in the search window for your own side would most likely read "not looking".
Keep in mind, the spirit of the venture is centered around those already teaming one side or another and someone on that team crossing over immediately; there shouldn't be a lot of cool heel time.
Having said that, I would think that nature of this function while it is a step toward Redemption and Falling, is not intended for random use as much as it is to install the beginnings of that game mechanic.
More yet to ponder in working out the details, but alas, the devil is always in the details.
Sticky by community request, when the topic see's its demise please notify and I will unstick.
Ex
Especially with the suggestions and changes found throught the thread, I like this idea. It makes for a lot of fascinating teaming and RP opportunities without wholesale merging the games and allowing cross-faction ATs. I also like the idea that there has to be a serious motivation for a cross-faction teamup and that the temporary cease-fire could dissolve in a heartbeat.