Cross-faction teaming: Probation and Duress


abnormal_joe

 

Posted

I like the idea of crossing over sides but do it with minimal restrictions. Let the player base interact a bit more and not make it all mission driven. Let a 'trusted' villain come over and hang out in Atlas park and do some missions. Let that villain solo some missions or just socialize. Make the villain do a mish where he/she gets a pass and is trusted enough to cross over on his own.

I've only encountered one person that didn't like this idea. All I say to that is, "The needs of the many..."


 

Posted

/signed

Sounds great and can be written in quite well into a story-arc/mission series.
Kind of like the other Co-op missions during the Events.

Series of Missions

Mission 1a - A hero or group can Complete

Mission 1b - A villain or group can Complete

Contact - Our "informant/blackmail victim" won't give us any more information until we ensure their safety. He/She tells us that they will only speak with you personally. Would you like to speak to informant/blackmail victim?

You - Click “Yes or No”

" NO " you cannot go further in that storyline but you can cancel it through contact.

" YES " an informant/blackmail victim will now be able to UNLOCK the next mission in the story which will be in their respective turfs.

You will then be able to access the “Informant/Blackmail Victim” list in the “Looking for Team”. You will then take your pick of who you might want to be teamed with.

Mission 2a - "Together" you complete the required mission in informant/victims home turf.

Contact - Our informant/victim has asked for a deal in return for giving us the information. You must accompany them on their task/mission.

Mission 2b - "Together" you complete the required mission in your turf (so that the informant/victim gets a chance to see the other side.

Note about the missions, they could be just “payment” for the informants or for the victim to give to his blackmailers in the form of finding a RANDOM SECRET set of badges which only the respective hero or villain could see on the map, which would be normal badges for that zone that have been moved to other random locations to prevent those with vidiotmaps from printing the maps out a head of time (the other participants map would be blacked out and continue to be blacked out until they've accumulated enough Fame points...see end), or they could be to hunt a certain number of a certain type of villain/hero group to get information on the blackmail or revenge for the informant (which would give them access to the other KILL Badges).

Added Bonus would be that you would not get any Mission Bonus or Badges UNLESS Missions 2a & 2b were completed (for those who might lose connection/or had to leave the pc for a time or those who want to be VILLAINOUS and leave early...which has possibilities). IF one mission is completed and not the other mission than the badges from the one mission would disappear from your person by the Hero/Villain Faction running the Missions.

Depending on how many badges you accumulate over the course of your travels would dictate on how Heroic or how Villainous you are (CELEBRITY/MOST WANTED points depending on what side you are on). Accumulate enough points and you might be able to cross over to the other side for certain missions on your own.


 

Posted

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Depending on how many badges you accumulate over the course of your travels would dictate on how Heroic or how Villainous you are (CELEBRITY/MOST WANTED points depending on what side you are on). Accumulate enough points and you might be able to cross over to the other side for certain missions on your own.

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Oh, now that is a good thought.


 

Posted

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Depending on how many badges you accumulate over the course of your travels would dictate on how Heroic or how Villainous you are (CELEBRITY/MOST WANTED points depending on what side you are on). Accumulate enough points and you might be able to cross over to the other side for certain missions on your own.

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Oh, now that is a good thought.

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I really think we should have the toons be able to cross over and be free to do almost all of the missions. Make it time limited. I just think it would increase the content (something we all beg for) and allow the ability to mingle. So, I guess I would like to see the whole game become a time limited co-op zone

This might solve my other big issue: dead servers. I prefer vills and other than the big 2 servers, the vill community is a bit slow on other servers. Hero side is pretty active on most servers but vills is a bit slow and tough to find teams etc.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a few servers shut down. Many people claim they're not ghost towns but they really seem to be just that.


 

Posted

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I really think we should have the toons be able to cross over and be free to do almost all of the missions. Make it time limited.

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What you're really describing isn't cross-faction teaming. It's redemption and falling -- limited redemption, maybe, but redemption nonetheless. That's at least somewhat different from what we're discussing here. It's a worthy discussion, but probably would get better traction if you posted it as its own suggestion (or appended it to one of the many redemption/falling threads that have come before).

As for me -- I wouldn't much want to see a time based probation/duress system. If a villain can cross into a heroic zone and act like a hero without supervision, he's not a villain any more. If a hero goes and spends three hours on the Rogue Islands breaking the law, he shouldn't be able to go back home to Paragon City and call himself a hero. If characters can hop the fence at any time, then it becomes a very different game. Maybe it would be a cool game, but it wouldn't be superheroes and supervillains any longer.


 

Posted

And extra sweet idea! /signed

I see the lvl restriction has been addressed quickly. Gotta let the lvl 50s in on this goodness.

I wonder about this:

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At this time, the team operates as normal, albeit with a villain (if a hero team) or a hero (if a villain team) along for the ride. As with any Sidekicked/Lackeyed character, the Villain under Probation/Hero under Duress receives experience points, salvage drops, influence/infamy, enhancements and recipes. However, there are differences between a Probationary/Duressed member and a Sidekick.

First off, team members cannot trade with the Probationary/Duressed character, the same as with any other Hero/Villain cross-faction team. Further, Probationary/Duressed members can't use Wentworth's or the Black Market, can't use police band radios or newspapers to get missions, and can't use trainers or contacts for levelling, missions or to buy or sell things. They also do not have access to their Base, even via teleport (though they can pass through their Sponsor's base as needed).

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Not being able to unload any drops could be a problem. I get nervous anytime I see my salvage or recipes go "red". It's time to sell at that point. (usually before that ponit) What to do about that?


 

Posted

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If/When the redemption/falling system is put into place some or all of these locations could be used to give special missions that would assist in the process of falling or redeeming yourself...maybe for these missions you could even be given a "probationary pass" to travel to your missions solo if you wish. These "passes" would get longer and the help you would gradually gain (access to npc vendors, extra missions, features, etc) would be unlocked as your redemption/fall continues. Eventually you would could choose to stay a "mercenary" one who can travel fairly freely on both the hero and villian side but never with full trust or access on either (you can access certain general npc's on both sides but will have to use your own contacts for certain types of missions...for instance no villian side patron powers because you would be unable to access the patron power arcs but can access the black market, on hero side you will not be able to access wentworths as they will not deal with your kind but will have access to the Ancillary Powers or merc specific ones) and it will be mercenary contacts that will introduce you to general contacts, so each no "tier" of missions will start with a mercenary contact before feeding back into the general pool.

If you chose to completely switch sides you would then be a hero or villian of course and play completely under those rules, still able to be "on probation"/"duress" and use that to start the redemption/falling process over and I do mean from square one. Otherwise welcome to your new life as a hero/villian where although you remain the level you are you gain new stuff by proving your loyalty to your new allegiance.

If you choose to remain a "mercenary" then once you reach a fairly balenced point between red and blue achievement you have access to both and must STAY relatively balenced. A declared mercenary can range between 1/2 red & blue - 1/4 & 3/4 red & blue. This is determined by doing tasks on your designated side. If you get to far past this line on either side you will have to get your "Balence" back or come under suspicion (i.e. the timer will bug you again) on that side and you will have to earn freedom of movement and other stuff back...or decide to fall/be redeemed.

The "Weighting" is as follows (these are examples we could always change the percentages)

"MAYHEM/SAFEGUARD" it is best to alternate these missions as they attract a lot of attention. Each one changes your rating by 1/10.

A trial/TF/Sf will change your rating by 1/4 this will not take effect until after the TF/SF/TRIAL is completed.

Regular missions 1/100th

Story Arcs 1/50th

Special (redemption/fall) story arc 1/4th

Paper/police band mission 1/100th

Mercenary specific missions -no impact but can be used to unlock mercenary specific content.

What do you all think?

Phaselight

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Sweet. I likes. /signed


 

Posted

/signed, with stipulations

1} The hero/villain needs to be under supervision. That means that their activities are limited to team objectives. They can't attack anyone outside the mission, can't trade or in any way act outside their MO. While they might be forced or encouraged to deviate from what they usually do, they still are heroes or villains and the world will treat them that way.

2} The drop points idea is good. However, to keep with the theme, each level range {five or ten increment} should have its thematic mission or miniarc to enable them to invite the opposite side. For villains, an example might be placing hidden bombs in an orphanage or something similar, a blackmail scheme to coerce the hero to do his bidding, "or else". For heroes... eh, I don't know.

3} In no case should the probationary team outnumber the home team - in fact, it may even be better if they had to count LESS. Truly evil villains would have little compulsions about turning on those who trust them if given even odds, and valiant heroes might be willing to take the risk if it may stop the villains from endangering others to coerce them again. With imbalance of power, in both cases it could be explained by being too risky to rebel.

3} /signed TimeLord's "straying" consequences.


 

Posted

This must be a Nemesis plot!


You pay to play. Having fun is ok. Kill Skuls or kill Crey. Hunt at night or in the day. Black or white or shades of grey. Play it your way. We have no say.

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Posted

People don't seem to like the SK/LK idea it appears because it limits the highest levels from using it. Didn't read through the whole thread, but here's a simple fix: The opposing player is Sidekicked OR Exemplared to the lowest level player in the team. Sounds like an easy way to get everybody involved, as level 50's won't mind so much about the lack of XP, and it will make people think twice about just PuGging willy-nilly with the prospect of being exemplared.

Think of it as the opposing faction putting some sort of limiting device on this player as "insurance" that s/he can be "handled" should anything go wrong.


 

Posted

I would love to See this put into effect,Sit in atlas park with my MM taunting all the new guys with my Assault bot.....ahhhh good times.good times.


 

Posted

wow, /signed.

I like it.


 

Posted

Though I'm sure my agreement with Enos is a sign of the coming apocalypse (like a breaking of the 18th seal or something; that kind of "adding insult to injury" deal that's just completely over the top...) I have to agree that this has a lot of potential.

Personally I would prefer to see the person crossing over take up a sk/ex slot, as it shows that their mentor is directly responsible for them, just like they're now responsible for their sk/ex. Not sure I like the idea of making you go to a specific contact in a specific zone to make yourself available for teams using this. Make it available under your Hide options or under your general options to show if you want to be available or not.

I really liked the idea of no-xp ambushes for heroes/villains who stray from their teams. Perhaps you have to escape the Zig all over again if you're a villain who is captured though. Could set up something similar for heroes as well, where you have to escape an Arachnos prison? Make them instanced zones as well, so they're not in general population with the level 1 heroes/villains out there. This extra prison escape mish would only happen if you don't choose to return to your team when defeated. Your sponsor could claim you from a PPD or RIP station to prevent this.


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Posted

I prefer the idea of the vill or hero being able to cross over without restrictions and on a time limited basis. A 'Day Pass' (24 hours real time or something). He/she gets the 'Day Pass' via a mission. On this mission the hero/vill is given 'trust' status and then allowed to cross sides. They should be able to get contacts and do missions etc. Maybe the only exception would be not to use the markets or stores (unless they go to the same type of money).


 

Posted

I've only lightly skimmed this, but I definitely like the idea. We need more roleplay and cross-faction gameplay would be rgeat for that.

This could also be a wonderful way for the devs to work towards redemption for villains and falling for heroes, though I think it would have to be a one-time deal for higher levels, maybe opening up another 10 with a handful of new powers whether you switch or not after a hard trial


 

Posted

/signed! That would save me several character slots of red-side/blue-side versions of characters I have! Please?


 

Posted

I like the idea but it seems needlessly complicated. When you could make a 3rd faction, The Independants. In comics these characters are clearly niether Good or Evil, but in all walks of life there is no such thing as a true neutral allignment. So these Independants would have grounds in Good or Evil, Via ATs (Blaster, Tanker etc for good and Corr Brute Etc for Evil). Though they have groundings in either side it is, as in comics and life, they actions they make that defines them.

I would submit that having a Villain running about Paragon City doing Paragon City Missions, and for that matter the reverse, is grossly game breaking. Because this Villain can gain all the required Badges for Hero Accolades, as the reverse. Which is the real kicker.

Where as if a new City close to Paragon City and the Rouge Ilse was made for these vagabonds, allowing access to there Origins City for such accolades, we could have a Side Swapping occur. Thematicly Recluse is not going to let a Tanker have the run of his islands no matter how many bad deed he has proformed. Like wise with the Master mind who has put his minions to work for the greater good, Statesman and the people of Paragon could never accept such a person within the war walls.

But a 3rd City (or more even), that has no moral compass, could Harbour such individuals if thier respective 'Home' Citys found them to lack the qualitys of Good or Evil as a whole.

I submit that by adding Independant Content we could formulate a Swapping system. Where Missions have dual outcomes, one of Good and one of Evil. Defining the Player by thier actions rather than thier AT and as such people all over will sing your praise or curse your name dependin on your actions.

Furthering this an affiliation system could be devised, Affiliating your self with a major faction in the world would also count towards your defined allignment.

For instance a Corruptor could earn enough 'Good Guy' Points to be allowed to have Longbow affiliated with them, and as such Longbow would not attack the Corruptor unless attacked themselves. Or if the Corruptor wanted to be truly Evil they could work up the 'Bad Guy' Points and affiliate with Arachnos.

Not to Derail, the OPs Idea is good but seems more of a band aid fixing a wound that needs stitches. I know that if i wanted to swap sides, id want it to be 'Permenent' not being brought along for the ride. The Idea has Merits, dont get me wrong, I would love this idea too. but its hardly the Side Swapping that I envisioned to be ground breaking.


 

Posted

I am all for more freedom to break out of the strict hero / villain prison. It feels especially artificial when both sides do perfectly the same things in most missions, but when you stop an arms deal as a villain it is evil and when you beat the guts out of poor sickened townsfolk as a hero it is good. Because your label says so.
(Contacts also rather frequently give you missions that feel like being on the other side, sometimes even stating things like "I know it may seem weird to help this villain organisation as a hero / sound weird to help the good guys... ". Its perfectly what the original poster describes, so character-wise there is little that would speak against helping the other side occassionally for greater good (or evil ). )

<dream> and maybe if there are choices added how to act in those missions where agents from the other side make offers, and they give you points for how evil or good your choices are... oh the prospect of side switching. O: ) Twice the amount of archetypes to team with... I'd even give the character's unlsotted possessions for a switch </dream>


 

Posted

(QR)

OK. I am all over the original post - this is a GREAT idea. The RP opportunities, the rationale, all of it just... WORKS.

Except... rather than booting the Duress/Probationary character back to their zone, implement the zero-XP ambushes if kicked off the team (outdoors - boot from instances) or implement the BASE RAID code if in the sponsor's base. Defeated? if not sponsored again, you get deported after a cool-down timer. This would be a zero-debt defeat as well. But as long as you're still standing, you're able to collect salvage and such from the waves of cops/soldiers sent to collect your sorry behind.

However, if you leave the team/sponsor voluntarily, you have a 'visa' to travel to the OPPOSING FACTION'S recruit station to either go back to your own side, or hang out and be available to join teams. When the visa expires... see the above code.

In other words, getting kicked is an immediate PvE or possibly PvP fight. Voluntarily leaving is a "you got until sundown to get outta town" deal.


And I agree, the probation/duress character NEEDS to be sponsored by someone. Maybe not +2 or greater to them, but there has to be someone keeping them under 'control'.




SQUEEEEE!!! I can see SOO much RP in this!!! YAY! Devs... you GOTTA at least consider this!!!!



"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."

 

Posted

The loverly soul train pointed my eyes here and I must concur with her enthusiasm.

I find your idea interesting and wish to subscribe to your newsletter dear sir.


@PlasmaStream
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Posted

There's some movement on the horizon, if the recent marketing survey is any indication, towards some form of alignment shift. As we learn more, this proposal may, of course, need modification.


 

Posted

Maybe if the villain/hero on probation or duress gets too far out of range of their sponsor, they become targets?
Meaning a message could appear on everyone's screen within the zone that a rogue villain/heroe is on the loose.
Meaning you'd have every level 50 gunning for you and if you're caught maybe you recieve shame? or maybe just great debt?
And for the heroes/villains that defeat you they get a badge?
Just a thought...
Oh and everyone would know where you are due to a waypoint set on you so lower lvls can stgand clear of you.
Just a thought.


- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own

 

Posted

I think the version we'd like to see would be too difficult to implement. It seems side switching is coming but in a different manner. Can't wait.


 

Posted

Didn't mean to disappear on ya Scholarman.
The idea of a weighted system to measure the sincerity of a characters commitment to "switching alignment" could be found in the presence of influence versus infamy. While in Prob/Duress mode, maybe folks should earn currency in that area. With the obvious faction they belong to, they could only use the opposing currency at a neutral contact at the drop point?

Just an idea.


 

Posted

Wow. Well thought and planned out, and i like the names even. Concise, coherent, balanced, entertaining, useful, fun. Welcome to the internet; you must be new here?

oh, and
NTLRAFB
i'll leave y'all to figure that out :P