Why do the devs hate COV?
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2008-01-06 17:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Then you and your friends are essentially being foolish. The reality doesn't match your stated impressions.
Now that said maybe you don't like the content you have recieved, but you can't deny the new content that added. I've seen the claim about not liking or using it. That doesn't invalidate that this was new content for COV.
Issue 6 & 7 where purely COV content, Issue 8 was mostly COH content and Issues 9, 10, & 11 have been equal content for both sides.
I just can't see any validity to your claim thus you are apparently being foolish. How can you make any legitimate claim that you are hated or not recieving content? How?
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Then you need to wake up. The villain content is made for heroes, but villains "get to do it". Pretty much making things easy for the devs. Nice personal insults pal.
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Then you need to wake up. The villain content is made for heroes, but villains "get to do it". Pretty much making things easy for the devs. Nice personal insults pal.
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Incorrect the content is there for both villains and heros. I fail to see how it isn't content for villains. It is that blind insistance that it isn't for villains that leads me to call such behavior foolish. It is up to you to convince me that I am wrong here.
As far as I can see this whole complaint boils down to... "I don't like the new content so I'll dismiss it and whinge that there is no new content." How exactly am I wrong in that characterization of what you are doing?
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Then you need to wake up. The villain content is made for heroes, but villains "get to do it". Pretty much making things easy for the devs. Nice personal insults pal.
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Terra sounds like someone's maiden aunt teaching them proper silverware placement and you act like he's pulled a knife on you.
lol
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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The cake is a lie.
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Actually, it wasn't. ^_^ Keep watching PAST the credits ...
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shhhhhhhh, don't tell!
CoV is people! PEOPLE!
And Ghost Widow is a sled. She made up the story from the bulletin board.
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Because many people only play Villain side.
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I was under the impression that the notion of "villain-only players" and "hero-only players" was abolished with PlayNC's drive to grant both owners of just CoH and owners of just CoV access to both sides, while at the same time offering polite excuses to those who already owned both. I'm not sure you could actually GET just CoV anywhere these days.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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They don't hate CoV, they hate you.
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Terra sounds like someone's maiden aunt teaching them proper silverware placement and you act like he's pulled a knife on you.
lol
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Now that said maybe you don't like the content you have recieved, but you can't deny the new content that added.
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Sure we can.
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Incorrect the content is there for both villains and heros. I fail to see how it isn't content for villains.
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It's quite simple, really.
It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.
As a red side player, none of the content added to CoV since I7 has had any sense of being aded for CoV. There is not a single thing I can point out and say "They were thinking about Villains when they designed this." Not one.
The pseudo-trials in I11 were the closest they've come since I7 to making content designed FOR villains. Yes, they are villain story arcs. Yes, they actually treat the villains as villains instead of heroes. But in order to do so, they had to destroy the given story and history of the game.
Take Mender Tesseract's Task Force. Levels 25-34. This is important, I know a lot of people have only used the Ouroboros to let their 50's do what they missed, but Tesseract is designed for players level 25-34.
In this task force, the villain (who can solo), or group of villains, put Lord Recluse in power. At level 25. You're still nothing but a grunt at even 34. You're still one of Recluse's followers (since, you know, he's the ONLY leading force on the Villain side). Everything you're doing is still under his watchful eye, and under his orders.
But he owes his very power to you. At level 25.
The entire TF leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because it seems so obviously slapped together without any forethought. I'm not saying the hero side ones are any better, becuase I haven't seen them. But this was crap. It was not added FOR the game, it was added TO the game, quickly slapped together to give us something to do.
Now, it may seem like a minor point to you, and it is. But that's part of the problem. Even something so inane, so trivial that it is taken for granted, the smallest detail... is left out. The disparity has gotten SO bad, SO obvious, that something as insignificant as an anniversary badge isn't even considered by the dev teams any more. Heroes get their badges for years 1, 2, 3, they'll get it again for year 4. Villains got their badge for year 1..... and then nothing at the year 2 mile marker.
Not fixing broken ATs, not getting VEATs, watching heroes get their versions of our content for no reason other than WE had something THEY didn't, not having hazard zones, not having any variety in the zones, only ONE zone for each level range, a serious lack in SFs, new story lines that go completely at odds with current or previous story lines, all co-op content from the RWZ to the holiday events being designed FOR heroes but added TO villains... they're never going to fix any of that if they can't even muster up enough devotion to a game - a game that we pay just as much for as any blue sider - to mark it's anniversary.
You, Terra, don't "get it". You're never going to "get it". But I actually DO play red side. Every time I log in I'm presented with evidence that our game just doesn't matter to the devs. They stopped designing FOR City of Villains nearly two years ago.
It breaks my heart that I finally find a game I love, and it is abandoned by it's creators.
Issue 6 and 7 were not purely CoV content.
Issue 6 added 3 zones to heroes and 1 new enemy faction
Bloody Bay, Sirens Call, and Warburg where heroes could fight Arachnos enemies for the first time.
Issue 7 added 1 new Zone
Recluse's Victory
Issue 8 was mostly Hero content as I don't think Vet rewards can really be marketed as Content. Yes Vet rewards are nice but are they really content?
Issue 9 was mostly even
Issue 10 while the content released is available to both sides the mission text is heavily slanted towards the mindset of a hero. The power players in I10 (Rikti and Nemesis) have almost no presence on the red side and often times the content runs counter to already existing things on the Red Side.
Some examples which may contain SPOILERS
Towards the end of Laventara's arc we learn the Rikti are actually Humanoids modified by an alien race. Many Villains already knew this from working with Timothy Raymond who's a 30-34 contact (in other words before we can even enter the RWZ there's agood chance Villains will know the truth about Rikti.)
In the Welcome to Vanguard mission we're told to rescue Longbow PoWs. Now I don't know about you but my Villain would never do such a thing no matter how much is at stake because of all the trouble Longbow caused me. But we're told "I don't care about your past with them your saving those PoWs" This is basically an F-U to Red Side players.
Additionally in Serpent Drummers Arc one of the missions is to be a bodyguard for the Traditionalist Peace Treaty. Excuse me but I was a retainer for Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt last I checked he was a Restructurist. Which reminds me if the Traditionalists are negotiating with Vanguard(which is a UN supported organization, and last I checked the UN acknowledges Recluse as the ruler of the Rogue Isles) and Recluse is secretly negotiating with the Restructurists why are the Isles being bombed?
End I10 SPOILERS
it's things like this that make people say that I10 wasn't really for villains. It was designed for Heroes and villains were allowed to play along.
Issue 11 is probably the most even issue, although my main gets little use from Flashback since I've done most of the story arcs anyway. My only issue with Ouroboros is the Lazarus TF. There is very little reason given for a villain to want to overthrow the 5th. Yes there is content but very little of it gives villains consideration.
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It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.
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You are really heavily invested in being a poor, put upon neglected minority, aren't you?
If someone handed you the Holy Grail you'd complain it was only half full of the Milk of Human Kindness.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I thought CoV was just PvP with PvE content? Nobody plays any of that stuff anyway, right? RITE?
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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Seven years of heroism. Seven years of friendships. Seven years of saving the world. Seven years of virtuous selflessness.
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If, in Issues 12-15, all of the added content to City of Heroes was your characters preforming bank robberies, kidnappings, extortions, assassinating world leaders, attempting to kill Statesman and destroy the Freedom Phalanx, would you complain?
Do you WANT Issues 12-15 to be that for Heroes?
I'm failing to see your point about Vanguard. My villains have zero problem with them. They are essentially hiring your character to act as a mercenary for them. This includes the things you appear to find objectionable. I personally fail to see where any intelligent villain wouldn't take advantage of the vanguard offer to steal advance tech and learn various heroes weaknesses.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Samuel Tow's beam of truth pierces your tin foil hat to annihilate your brain!
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I have it set to 11.
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Good thing my Shield of Denial is set to 9001.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Welp, if you can't beat them, join them, huh?
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I recommend a fast-setting Epoxy, myself.
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Good thing that Oxyclean guy is pimping that new Mighty Putty epoxy now, isn't it?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Because the ALL the paying people need to know.
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Why?
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Yeah, since most of are Americans, and it's a proven fact the majority of Americans are happier in a state of ignorance.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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...[Valid Points]...
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Ok, I hear what you're saying, I really do.
I quit CoH a couple months after release and came back for CoV. I played that game crazy-much and loved it, warts and all.
But I gotta tell you, i10 and i11 shouldn't have been a big shock to you for one simple reason...CoV isn't very villainous. Granted, there are a couple of arcs that are villainous, but for the most part, it's a red CoH with different ATs.
CoH: You spend 50 levels going to your contact(s) and finding out what bad guys need their lights punched out today. You traverse hostile terrain populated by stationary bands of these bad guys. When you're feeling exceptionally skillful, you go visit a NPC and have your reputation "increased" for a fee. Repeat that contact->bad guy punching -> contact cycle until you hit 50.
Rejoice.
CoV: You spend 50 levels going to your contact(s) and finding out what bad guys need their lights punched out today. You traverse hostile terrain populated by stationary bands of these bad guys. When you're feeling exceptionally skillful, you go visit a NPC and have your reputation "increased" for a fee. Repeat that contact->bad guy punching -> contact cycle until you hit 50.
Rejoice.
The "journey" is the same, only the AT and terrain differs.
The more "appropriate" gripe isn't so much that CoH and CoV issues are the same as CoH and CoV are so similar to begin with.
Unless and until there is a marked difference between CoH and CoV other than window dressing and ATs, complaining about the text of missions is like complaining about getting Strawberry Preserves instead of Strawberry Jam when really what you wanted is Roast Beast.
I'd LOVE to take advantage of Vanguard. But we aren't presented with any opportunities to do so. I'd love to sabotage them. I'd love to break up the peace conference, pick fights with Lady Grey, I'd love to work for the waring Rikti (oh wait, already did that in Grandville, now I have to turn my back on him becuase the almighty Vanguard says so).
If the devs had given any thought to there being TWO games, instead of just assuming it's one, RWZ could still exist. But there'd be three sets of contacts.
There'd be Vanguard, trying to hire anyone they can to fight the Rikti. The contacts would have different missions, or at LEAST different mission TEXT for heroes and villains, to use each side's strengths and not try to force one to go against their natures. There'd be a side dedicated to working with Heroes, with missions to stop sabotage etc. There'd be a side dedicated to working with the Villains. We'd be allowed to tear stuff up, throw a monkey wrench, even trying to help the Rikti win (and why not, some Villains have the exact same goals as the Rikti and don't care how they get pulled off).
It's very easy to have included co-op content but still designed FOR CoV as well as CoH.
But they didn't. We have one side in RWZ. We have Vanguard, which is looking for Heroes and they'll take 'em wherever they can get 'em, even from the Rogue Isles as necessary. We have glitches when Villains enter the zone, our difficulty marker gets screwed up, etc. In general, since the zone is a hero zone, villain side get flaws occurring as the games weren't programmed to handle cross data like that. I can be on your team but I can't pass you an Awake. (I think that one was fixed, but I did run into it a few times.) Things like that.
The additions were Hero sided. It was very possible for them to have co-op, but take CoV into consideration. They didn't. We have every right to be upset about it.
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Good thing that Oxyclean guy is pimping that new Mighty Putty epoxy now, isn't it?
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What do you clean any Mighty Putty that gets on your spandex with though ?
(and yeah that is a cool, convenient product)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Samuel Tow's beam of truth pierces your tin foil hat to annihilate your brain!
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I have it set to 11.
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Good thing my Shield of Denial is set to 9001.
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<Graham Chapman> No, it isn't. </Graham Chapman>
MA arcs: #1669, "A New Breed Rising"
One additional note. I see these claims about Vanguard missions being to heroic as a failure of imagination and creativity on the part of the player.
It is fairly clear that Vanguard is a mercenary orginization with no regard for hero of villain. They have a mission and will do what it takes to achieve this mission. Sure it would have been nice if there was a way for the mission text to spell that out for the people who lack imagination. But it appears that there is no tech in game to have two different sets of mission text depending on hero/villain. So none of this bothers me.
As mentioned I have no problem visualizing how my villain will take advantage of these saps that are hiring him. And sure they want to pay me to rescue someone? So? This doesn't bother me. I don't melt or scream in agony if I'm being paid to rescue someone or guard someone instead of rob them. And you know what I'll bet I can call in favors from the person I rescue later to my advantage.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
get a new game then?
not sue why people pay money for a game that is half [censored]