Why do the devs hate COV?

I really don't understand why this topic keeps coming up... And I PLAY VILLAINSIDE!

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If someone handed you the Holy Grail you'd complain it was only half full of the Milk of Human Kindness.


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You're darn right I would. If someone's going to go to the trouble of getting the Holy Grail, they can at least top that sucker up.

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@Mindshadow

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I really don't understand why this topic keeps coming up... And I PLAY VILLAINSIDE!

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MOST of us don't understand it, because most of us play BOTH sides. Seriously, I'm not even close to alone when I look at threads like this and go "...wha?"

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I really don't understand why this topic keeps coming up... And I PLAY VILLAINSIDE!

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MOST of us don't understand it, because most of us play BOTH sides. Seriously, I'm not even close to alone when I look at threads like this and go "...wha?"

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Actually most of us don't understand it because most of us have an imagination that has no problem handling things like Vanguard in character villainside.

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I really don't understand why this topic keeps coming up... And I PLAY VILLAINSIDE!

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MOST of us don't understand it, because most of us play BOTH sides. Seriously, I'm not even close to alone when I look at threads like this and go "...wha?"

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Actually most of us don't understand it because most of us have an imagination that has no problem handling things like Vanguard in character villainside.

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I didn't think it took any imagination to handle. It's not at all unheard of for heroes and villains to team-up against a greater threat.

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If the devs had given any thought to there being TWO games, instead of just assuming it's one...

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That's just it, though. I don't think they ARE two games. I don't think it was ever any other way. The "two games" may have been sold separately, but there's a reason we coined the term "expansionalone" - it was an expansion that you could play as a standalone. You'll note, though, that CoV never actually had enough content to BE a separate game. It was and remains to this day, "the evil version of CoH."

I'm not quite sure what the developers were thinking when they made the game a standalone. I suspect it was our (mine included) complaints about making us buy the game over again, rather than waiting on free expansions. Remember, one of CoH's perks always was the fact that you didn't have to rebuy the game every few months. So this "expansionalone" satisfied both those who wanted it and those who didn't by being completely separate.

I've felt I was wrong in asking for this, however, as we still suffer from the legacy of "the two games" where in fact two games never existed. It was always just one game.

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They hate you because... you're evil.

Duh.

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I'm failing to see your point about Vanguard. My villains have zero problem with them. They are essentially hiring your character to act as a mercenary for them. This includes the things you appear to find objectionable. I personally fail to see where any intelligent villain wouldn't take advantage of the vanguard offer to steal advance tech and learn various heroes weaknesses.

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They even say when you go through the first bits of text, they don't care what happens outside of the RWZ, you are all working together to fight off the rikti.

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I think the RWZ is a great zone because of that, in fact. I've always enjoyed the "enemy of my enemy = my friend, if only for now" concept. The only problem I have with the zone at all is how the lft engine won't let one side search for the other too.

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Well, that would have been my Fury bar had I not rested, as you can't attack without endurance. Moreover, that would have been my health bar, too. Older Dr. Areon? and Professor Echo don't take kindly to being attacked

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There's this thing called Stamina....

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This is hardly the first time someone came up with the "two separate but merged" games concept. They are STILL two SEPARATE but merged games.

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There's this thing called Stamina....

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After much research and many experiments, I have concluded that... There is no such thing as Stamina. It's only a myth to scare little children.

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Yup, pretty much. Heroes whined and complained and got their way. But you misunderstand their intent. They never specifically wanted to get content. Even with I7, we still had twice as much as villains. No, what they actually wanted was to deny villains more content. They didn't really care what they got, or if they actually got anything, just as long as no content was being added to the villain side.

See, it's a long-standing practice - hero players would sooner see no content being developed for either side than see anything developed for villain-side.

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I am aware this is meant as a joke post, but sad to say I see more than a few shreds of truth to it.

We see bits of this all the time, like so:

A villainside player starts a thread: "Why don't the developers pay more attention to CoV?"

respondant 1: because CoV sucks.

respondant 2: But why does it suck?! How can it ever NOT suck, if it gets no more attention?!

respondant 1: I don't want more exclusive redside content 'cuz I never play over there. It sucks.

respondant 3: Villains got i7! STOP WHINING!

OP: We just got i11. You don't think i7 is a bit long in the tooth to be holding up as 'look what you just got'?

repondant 4: NO because CoV sucks and everyone knows it.

..... and on and on the moebius-strip of stupidity and circular logic goes. We recently had a thread with people actually saying that they wanted CoV to get more attention.... as long as that didn't mean that even one issue wasn't swung 98% heroes/2% villains, because i7 was a nightmare to them that they still were not really over! [or words to that effect]. GEEZ, wt*-ever.

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..... and on and on the moebius-strip of stupidity and circular logic goes.

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Indeed!

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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

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This is hardly the first time someone came up with the "two separate but merged" games concept. They are STILL two SEPARATE but merged games.

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You cannot have two things be both "separate" and "merged." This is like saying something can be black and white, at the same time. These are mutually exclusive concepts.

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Yes, you can.

I can play CoV w/o touching any hero side content. I can avoid PvP zones, I can avoid RWZ, I can skip Pocket D, and play NOTHING but CoV.

CoH players can do the same with their game.

The two games do however have points of intersection. You can go to RWZ, PvP zones, Pocket D. You can chat with players on the other side, you can group with 'em etc.

But that still doesn't make them "the same game".

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Yes, you can.

I can play CoV w/o touching any hero side content. I can avoid PvP zones, I can avoid RWZ, I can skip Pocket D, and play NOTHING but CoV.

CoH players can do the same with their game.

The two games do however have points of intersection. You can go to RWZ, PvP zones, Pocket D. You can chat with players on the other side, you can group with 'em etc.

But that still doesn't make them "the same game".

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Exactly. If they were actually merged, I as a villain could exit out of Pcket D on either side of the color-divide, and go where I wanted. This is patently not the case.

Nor should it be, in my opinion.

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Ummm... just to rebut the argument that the RWZ zone arc is hero-slanted because your rescue Longbow P.O.W.s....

You also have missions where you fight Longbow, so, how do you think the heroes feel about that?

Yes, the mission language could have been better written and not 'slip' into presuming the player is a hero at times, but the missions themselves are quite balanced in activities contrary to both a villain mindset and a hero mindset.

And I'll also say that the Arachnos in the RWZ should con friendly to all players and fight Rikti, just like the Longbow and Vanguard do.

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Something you've completely neglected to mention, is how those who point out I7 as mostly-red, continue on to say that the grand majority of stuff since then has been for both sides. However, it is apparent that to some, the only acceptable course of action is to utterly ignore H in favor of V, for X # of issues. Only then can this horrible slight be forgiven. I'm kidding. It'll never be forgiven.

I'm sorry, but one of Nethergoat's posts up there, a response to a quote, is absolutely spot-on. There is a victim mentality at work here, and every possible attempt to assuage it will be taken negatively.

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I am aware this is meant as a joke post, but sad to say I see more than a few shreds of truth to it.

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It wouldn't be half as... Funny, let's call it if I were pulling it out of thin air. I don't consider a thread titled "Why do the devs hate CoV?" to merit a measured response, however, so I threw about all I could think of in one giant mess for others to sort through.

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We recently had a thread with people actually saying that they wanted CoV to get more attention.... as long as that didn't mean that even one issue wasn't swung 98% heroes/2% villains, because i7 was a nightmare to them that they still were not really over! [or words to that effect]. GEEZ, wt*-ever.

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I believe I was one of the people asking for more Villain content because the side quite simply doesn't have enough. It never has. The developers pinched their pennies and peddled their "improved" zone design, which ended up leaving the game with a grand total of 7 zones and barely enough (more like not enough, period) content to get from 1-50 once, forget about replay value. It was a mistake then, and it continues to be a mistake.

As far as "but not all CoV so we don't hurt hero players," I, personally, don't care either way. I paid for "both games" and play both heroes AND villains, so whichever side gets more content, I still win. Yes, I realise this is a very kind and considerate standpoint to take and doesn't in any way make me an insolent hypocrite. No sir-ree! But I've never considered CoH and CoV to be two separate games to begin with.

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There's this thing called Stamina....

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After much research and many experiments, I have concluded that... There is no such thing as Stamina. It's only a myth to scare little children.



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Odd. See, I think it's a myth that we get 4 power pool choices. None of my characters get 4. They only get three.

I am forced to take swift/health/stamina on all characters.

Seriously. Forced. You want the truth? Statesman actually gave up CoH/V because he stands behind me with a gun at my head until I get stamina. He didn't have time with that, his new kid and his other games to keep on with CoH/V.

For truth. Really.

Oh, and on topic, CoV is more fun for me. Obviously the devs like me more than all the silly people whining.

First, the gave me CoV. Where all the ATs can solo well at a good pace, unlike hero side, where only one AT can do it. The rest are slow or boring.

With that, they gave me brutes. Brutes have this thing called fury. It lets me slot my attacks for acc, end-red and rec-red so all my attacks come up sooner, cost less end and hit more, which builds fury faster, which means I do more damage.

In other words, I get to NOT suck like hero ATs do before SOs.

Yup. The devs love villains. At least villains that play like I do.

But I'm special. I have a Z as my middle initial.

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Be well, people of CoH.

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It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.

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Is it me or is this ridiculous?

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@Deadedge and @Dead Edge


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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo

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I can play CoV w/o touching any hero side content. I can avoid PvP zones, I can avoid RWZ, I can skip Pocket D, and play NOTHING but CoV.

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And I can play in Atlas Park, the Hollows, Faultline, Striga, Croatoa and the Rikti War Zone without touching any of the other zones. Does that mean City of Heroes is actually two separate games? City of Old vs. City of New, maybe? I can play the entire game entirely with Scrappers and never touch or interact with another AT. Matter of fact, I pretty much do. Does that mean that City of Heroes is actually two games - City of Melee and City of Everything Else?

Just because you can play the game and ignore certain parts of it does not mean what you've chosen to play is a separate game. And while City of Villains should, in theory, be an equal part of the game as City of Heroes, City of Villains is not equal to City of Heroes + Co-op + PvP + core engine mechanics. If we HAVE to divide the game into two sections, those two sections would overlap a LOT. If you want to examine a section without that overlap, then you're looking at a lot less than half the game, be that practically or in theory.

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It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.

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Is it me or is this ridiculous?

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Silliest thing I've seen in a long time.

...'course, I haven't checked out the Forum Games section in quite a while.

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The idea is that the content was added to the game, but does not match the theme of the game and so feels out of place. The problem with that is that it ignores what the context of City of Villains is - classic villains that rob banks and want to rule the world, rather than darkity-dark post-apocalyptic land of murder and torture. The islands may look the part, but the bulk of the narrative does not, within which context the new shared content fits, if not necessarily perfectly.

Honestly, this was a lot more fun when it was silly exaggeration. Debating the semantics of "added to" vs "added for" is boring.

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