Discussion: Paragon Times - 70 Years In Office
By
Alchemedic,
Posted on: 2007-09-27 14:21 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I thought (and I could be wrong) SPIDER was based out of Italy and was a fascist regime run by Weaver before Recluse took it over.
Edit - CaptainAmazing types faster than I do.
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I have read The Web of Arachnos like..five times :P Don't feel bad I correct people irl when they talk about recluse..or I would if..anyone would...most just run away when i start going on about this game :<
<sighs> ah well..
-C.A.
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Speaking of...I've never read Web of Arachnos, though I'd love to- where might I find a copy?
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Amazon has it. I got mine from Borders I think. Maybe Barnes & Noble.
I must commend the writers to invigorate the subplots that we, the main characters of the story in this game, over look. So many plot holes, and yet unanswered questions on when, how, and why would be answered. Last issue they finally gave us hard evidence that Nemesis was a key role in the Rikti War, despite they threw us into a loop before the final missions from Dark Watcher, in hopes that we mistake it the Paetrons that caused the Rikti Wars. And how the Rikti did know of them is a question yet to be answered too
Anywho, those that did follow the many story lines prior knew Nemesis had his hands in the Rikti Dimension, but we did not know what he was doing, aside being a key role in the Rikti War. These same writers seemed to throw us a few bones in the Striga Isles arcs before CoV came into play and its Arachnos minions, hence they were called SPIDER then. So these writers are excelling at subliminal subplots that seem to have nothing to do with our future until we see it coming
** May contain Spoilers both CoV and CoH end contents **
So we got the picture that we are not a part of this time line, or dimension, Ill assume the prior since the dimensions are overly abundance in later CoH arcs, however we dont know the source or why, aside a possibility of Dr Aeon, Nemesis, Crey, Circle of Thorns, the 5th, and even the Malta. Some hopes of Nemesis, yet the more I read, the more seems not his style. Nemesis is a hero in his own mind, and wants the people to worship him, not just his automations. If Nemesis were to wipe us out, wouldnt he wipe out his rivals too? Such as Arachnos, the whole Freedom Phalanx, Crey, etc. How I see it, if it were Nemesis, itll be built like a Nemesis empire, and not having so many freelance thinkers running about. I see his timeline more of a robot utopia, similar to I Robot from Issac Asimov.
Now the 5th
Intriguing group with more loop holes then a colander has holes to drain noodles with. I may not have fought the 5th, but I do read the lore a lot, so to a point where in one mission you, the hero, has to stop their time-traveling experiments. As we know the heroes saves the day, so we feel. For all we know we could have missed them, prior to our intrusion, and they could have one successful test. And even this timeline sounds like the Counsel never did succeed in ousting the 5th. Yet, no hard evidence yet to prove it, just feels that way. Somehow, I feel there are bigger fish then the 5th that is pulling the strings.
Circle of Thorns do have a means of time travel, hence you reactivating the Nerva portal with Naylor. Yet it seems like the CoT havent perfected it yet. Heres why: From the CoV, Project Destiny, Scirocco Arc
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Diviner Maros
How many times have we met? How many times have I talked to you, oh 'Destined One'? It's hard to keep track, now. In this thread of time, it was on you to steal the gate to the beyond and seal away the forgotten godess, not to hold off the army of Brass nor to steal the great minds. I remember this, as I remember all the other things you might have done. And have we worked together before? I cannot seperate out the history you know from all of what might have been. But I know this moment. You were sent to me by Professor Echo, who told his younger self to send you to me, just as he remembered. It's confusing, yes, but that's the problem with time travel.
Fourteen thousand years ago, we called it The Tower, but really it was a portal. We of Oranbega sought to build a gateway to the heavens to re-awaken our gods in our time of need, we could not have foreseen that it would come to this. When it failed, my mind was opened to every possible moment between then and the future you're racing towards. Soon, you will enter the portal and decide fate itself. Lord Recluse knows this. He's left his notes here, in this chain of events. I'll only learn that you found them too late, of course, and I won't be able to stop you. Not that I want to, but I am eager to see a world where I don't know what's going to happen, and would hate to see you destroy it in a war with Arachnos.
Now where did I later learn you found those notes? Ah, yes. I remember that when I learned about it, I was surprised it was on St. Martial, hidden deep within a secret base beneath the Golden Giza. It would be funny if I didn't already know what's going to happen. I'll show you where I later learned you went.
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They have tried! But they failed
sounds like the Tower of Babel saga to me in a way
of course Maros is referring to the Project Destiny Portal which is a time traveling portal. So this accident made them afraid to try it again it seems, yet if they were, I can see how you, the hero / villain gets removed, by removing the entire Mus in the past, hence you cant be born.
The Crey and Malta seem to be toying with portals, a lot, in fact way too much, but theres no hard evidence that they can time travel yet. If they can, I seriously doubt this is their time line. For Crey, as we see in one portal mission it may end up being all Paragon Protector society, or it could become a communist like world where the economy, no, our entire lives are controlled by the countess herself. This time line didnt fit the bill. Malta seems to be a military fascist with supreme hate for all meta-humans, excluding those in their ranks for some odd reason. Yet this timeline has too many freelancers Meta just to start, hence a no-go in my opinion. Plus its hard to picture their time stream, a semi-utopia with a dictator type governing, anarchy or just a war-torn place
Now Dr. Aeon, mysterious, and yet too aloof to understand is true goals. Just a mention in the latest article seems to trigger more people in concord that hes the cause of this timeline. As one stated...
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Dr. Aeon already has the ability to time travel, he doesn't need help from anyone.
During the final Patron Arc you are diverted temporally and brought before Dr. Aeon from 15 years in the future, one where your villain and Recluse have destroyed the world with your infighting. When you defeat Aeon, he activates a teleporter, mentioning fighting you before you gain power.
Scroll back thirty levels, and we find Dr Echo, and older version of Aeon. Through several missions we track him down, and find him stealing an invention that is used to divert a timer traveler, if his destination is known. When we get to the end, we see Echo talking to someone that looks similar to Aeon. This Aeon is the one from 15 years in the future/ Dr Echo, knowing when he was going to show up, diverts future Aeon, with dire news about his plan, then when your villain shows up he points you to Tarikoss.
When you beat both doctors they both hit temporal teleporters. I'm not sure if you are able to stop Echo or not, it's been a while since I've payed close attention to the arc, but I'm convinced it's future Aeon that is now reported working on the Etoile Isles President 70 years ago.
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Okay
in a way that kinda went over my head so Ill back his saying up with more Wiki facts: Marshal Brass: The Aeon Conspiracy.
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A file on Dr. Egon
This file contains Arachnos' records of the notorius mad scientist Dr. Egon. His pursuit, trial and capture are all matters of public record, known to most people living in the Rogue Isles. Where these files disagree is in Dr. Egon's final fate. While he was shown to be executed on live television, these files continue on, detailing his negotiations with Arachnos to work for them in exchange for a new identity. An identity called Dr. Aeon.
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Starting off Dr. Aeon is really Dr. Egon. A mad scientist whom was prison in the Zig, for crimes yet not detailed too well, and escaped to the Rouge Isles. He later did an experiment where his whole lab, and is still, dimensional hopping, killing the Marshal of Cap at the time, thus having Dr. Egon executed for this crime. Heres another quote from Marshal Brasss Arc: Echo Down the Aeons
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Professor Echo: I know the world you came from was destroyed, but it doesn't have to happen again!
Professor Echo: You've got to stop Villain!
Dr Aeon?: Wait...
Dr Aeon?: You're me?
(aggroed)
Dr. Aeon?: Villain? But you're dead! Or maybe that hasn't happened yet...
Professor Echo: Get out of here, Aeon. This is my fight.
Professor Echo: Just remember this moment... When it's your turn.
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This has to be one of the most perplexing moments in this arc. First you find out Professor Echo is Dr. Aeons alias as a hero, but from the future no less. Yet this Aeon isnt from our current timeline or dimension, which brings up another question, how many Aeons are there? Yet, how I see it is Professor Echo is grooming the Dr. Aeon from the aftermath of Project Destiny to be Professor Echo we fight here. According to the souvenir, a folded, old drawing of you, you have defeated / captured Professor Echo only, not Dr. Aeon. So we have a reason why Dr. Aeon wants the villains ousted. As for the heroes, its all in the Statesman Strike Force. Typical mad scientist doing a monolog just to be outwitted by crummy heroes and proven that he was just a pawn in a grander scheme.
So we fight Dr. Aeon later as villains in our Project Destiny arcs, but heres a quote that adds to the plothole from Sciroccos arc:
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Dr. Aeon's map of time
This notebook contains Dr. Aeon's attempts to map out all the junctions where he could change history and keep the world from being destroyed. A lot of them are already long past, and there are very few left. However, one looks promising. According to Dr. Aeon's notes, if you were selected as the Destined One, and then you were somehow able to show Recluse that he would lose in a battle against you, he would probably halt his plans. The problem is that if you beat Lord Recluse, then Arachnos might splinter anyway, and lead to the end of the world. However, Dr. Aeon has a plan about how it could be done. If you could use the DESTINY portal to fight Recluse in the near future and defeat him, then you could return to the present with proof that you can beat him without provoking a division within Arachnos in the present. It sounds crazy, but it just might work. Maybe keeping Aeon around really was a good idea, after all.
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So we got a key interest he wants to stop us, the main villain, from killing all life. Yet the plotholes are what did he do in the past, aside Marshal Brasss arc, and what did he have left? We may or may not find out.
Aside Dr. Aeons role in Project Destinys arcs, I find in peculiar, or perhaps a coincidence, that the Future events to come to past are now coming to past. From Ghost Widow Patron arc: Project Destiny
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Plaque from the future
You found this hand-carved plaque on a pile of rubble in the strange future Arachnos sent you to. It reads:
'This marks the spot on which the final battle occurred. After the Arachnos war, the second Rikti war, the Council War, the Nemesis War, the Rikti Civil War, and the final Arachnos War, here did the Destined One and Lord Recluse fight their final battle. With their death, the wars ended, but the world had already passed away. All that is left to this world is chaos and we, the isolated scraps of humanity. We have no home, no community, no pleasure, and no peace. As for hope, it exists only in memory.'
The date on the plaque is for 15 years from when you left. And buried beneath the rubble below the plaque, you can see the wrecked form of one of Lord Recluse's armored spider-arms, still clutched in the grasp of your own skeletal hand.
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Not sure if its merely coincidental, but I see the reference that the Arachnos War is Recluses Victory the PvP zone, and we just started the second Rikti war in Issue 10, perhaps we are onto the Councils war which sounds like they bring back the 5th. However different Patrons say similar events, but their reference on what happened is different for all. Just a speculation.
**All facts were deprived from paragonwiki.com**
For all you people calling the Wallpaper Ouroboros "Mayan" or "Aztecan" or a "Mayan Calendar" or Quasicoatail-as-a-ouroboros...
PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED.
Let's do some research before you spout WAGs.
It's like looking at a Roman Eagle and calling it Norse because it's all ancient European. Yes, that much wrong.
As our dear El Paisa and others have pointed out pointed out, wrong cultures for Colombia. (In fact, I'll wager that none of you know the name of any pre-Columbian Colombian indigenous tribe -- I certainly didn't before befriending several Colombians.)
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The articles and wild speculation are starting to weird me out in a serious way. But they're still interesting!
For me, the most intriguing aspect of these articles is that President Marchand's costume seems to use no unique costume parts. Yes, citizens of the main timeline/universe/quantum-whatzits-of-your-choice can make UnPresident Marchand today! 
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Please allow me to add to the weird speculation. Does anyone remember a story arc in the mid 30's hero side about a Council experiment to go back in time and change history? Anyone remember the Archon badguy at the ends name? I really think this is a parallel reality replacement. Kinda reminds me of the Age of Apocalypse series from back in the day. The council gut goes back in time messes with things and the fifth column ends up in charge of the rogue isles.
Master Gabriel
If it's the alternate dimension thing, I won't buy it. Lord Recluse in the story (Actual CoV, not flashback crap) is so hell-bent on ensuring his victory that he will eliminate time periods where he loses, and if Dr Egon (oops! Did I spoil something? It's an easy arc and you kinda find out quick anyway) did try to move against Recluse, big bad spider would rip the guy to pieces.
Flashback stuff or not, I don't buy it at all. Granted, if I gt to do the arcs all over again, like Lt. Demitrovich's arc and get the temp power associated with it again, then hell yeah I'm for it.
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Please allow me to add to the weird speculation. Does anyone remember a story arc in the mid 30's hero side about a Council experiment to go back in time and change history? Anyone remember the Archon badguy at the ends name? I really think this is a parallel reality replacement. Kinda reminds me of the Age of Apocalypse series from back in the day. The council gut goes back in time messes with things and the fifth column ends up in charge of the rogue isles.
Master Gabriel
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I don't remember the Council story arc, but I remember the 5th Column one. The 5th Column storyarc was Ubelmann and he was trying to take our technology back to WW2 to change history, or produce an alternate reality where the outcome of WW2 is entirely different.
The last we heard of him is that he was imprisoned (presumably in the Zig) suffering from trauma brought on by time traveling. Ahem... Paragon Times Report anyone?
I vote its the 5th Column.
My 28 scrapper just finished a arc involving the Council where the final boss was Ubellman. He was a time-traveler from the WWII era sent to find out as much as possible about what we know about WWII today to possibly use that knowledge and go back in time and change history. Is that what you're refering too, MasterGabriel?
Also, something interesting about that arc... the souvenir you get after defeating Ubellman is a note from Requiem. Basically, Requiem was the secret informant helping you by leaving clues and making sure you defeated Ubellman, stopping him from goin back in time. He had you beat Ubellman instead of doing it himself because the Center would come for him. He aslo mentioned that even though you did a great job, he doesn't respect you, and he will make a comeback.
Seems to be the newer version of that 5th Column arc.
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If this is time travel, teh easiest way to implement it would be through a story arc of missions or a TF. You simply go back in time to said-event-in-danger-of-changing and make sure he/she behind it all does not alter our timeline. So if you have a chance to save Hero-1 instead of faltering the Rikti Attack, you still must let him make the sacrifice.
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Which would STINK beyond belief given that we know how that turns out.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
You also have to look at the To Save A Thousand Worlds arc also because in that arc Requiem was the head of the Council and not just "one" of the leaders.
Also in the Kheldian arc he and Arakhn are trying to take over the Council by supplanting the Center. I wish they would let us do battle with the Center instead of making him appear in the background of a map. I can't remember which one though.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Sounds like it got worked into the Council missions. I don't remember doing that mission in ages. I miss the 5th... sniff sniff...
Just wanted to point something out that I noticed, that I'm sure other people have thought of but no one has actually said in this thread:
The wallpaper has the Ouroboros... in an infinity symbol. It's often drawn as a regular symbol with the intent of "infinity" anyway - drawn this way, its meaning is plain. As the UK rep mentioned at one point "the sideways 8", I am solidly in the camp of the time-travel theory.
My personal theory at this point: Dr. Aeon has gone back in time for yet another reason - not sure which, at this point - with the intent to prevent Recluse from taking over. He probably planned that this would cause the Outbreak and Breakout from occuring - and preventing "you" from ever coming about to threaten or end his life.
The two causes of the end of the world... "You" and Recluse, both dealt serious blows by the same event. Dr. Aeon wanted to stop both. Coincidence? I think not.
As for all those doubting other events: the Lost are mentioned in the article, and they wouldn't be around if the first Rikti War hadn't happened. So they must be around.
Finally, one last thing: I do believe Nemesis could very well have his hand in this for one big thing. His last big plan - explained in the end of the Rikti War Zone arcs - failed because of the "you" hero-side. For being such a master planner, one would think he'd find a way to remove you from the equation to make an attempt at succeeding at his previously failed master plan...
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Anyone else think Marchand looks a little Like Stan Lee. heh heh
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Anyone else think Marchand looks a little Like Stan Lee. heh heh
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O.O
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
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i am thinking that this is some kind of easter egg or hint about i11....but i do not think manicor is under cover i think he is one of Nemesis robo guys.....either that or i11 will be crazy
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I don't think Justin will be an Automaton, but given the metal, angular Orobouris(Snake eating it's own tail, symbol of Eternity, for those who didn't know), I think Nemesis might just come out in the open...
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ummm not eternity but infinity
hmmm I had this thought:
Things just got a lot more interesting.
If this IS the past being changed.. do we really wanna change it for the "better", as in, put Recluse back in charge of the Rogue isles where he can continue to threaten the world, or do we dare forfeit a single city to a plague (and our own lives)?
However, then I read where someone mentioned that the papers might be from two slightly divergent realities. Maybe this timestream business is a work-in-progress?
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Well, well. Seems we're playing fast and loose with the fabric of time and space again.
I'm sure someone already pointed this out (looks like I'm late to the party), but "Cisne" seems to be the Spanish word for Swan. Go fig.
What intrigues me the most? The symbol in that wallpaper is a snake eating its own tail, a symbol of eternity...or self-destruction...in the form of an infinity symbol.
Up until now, CoX was lacking one thing that most comics had: a reset button that worked by gumming up the mechanics of the multiverse. (Check!)
Vulpy
Quote:
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Newton: I observed Mercury's perihelion moving 43 arc-seconds per century more than it should. Is this WAI? --Einstein |
OK, didn't I read somewhere that both Recluse And Statesman got there powers from when they were mercs in south america from some magic thingy?
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OK, didn't I read somewhere that both Recluse And Statesman got there powers from when they were mercs in south america from some magic thingy?
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From the book, it sounds like the island is near Greece.
It would be cool if Lord Recluse was looking for the mythical city of Pax, the city was settled by people who had once lived a violent life who killed, maimed and destroyed but eventually became sickened by their own actions."
There was a heroine called the Herald whose parents were killed by the 5th Column while searching for the hidden city.
Someone has been fluxing with the timespace continuum!
Don your capes, hold fast your holy shotguns!
You will need:[*]A handful of heroes steadfast in their resolve to defend Paragon, and the world!
Check! [*]Another handful of villains set on preserving their nefarious goals at all costs!
Check!
Thrusters to maximum! This looks like a battle of truly epic dimensions!
Count me in!
*Masterful use of mystery and style in the build-up to this Issue release Devs !
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That's not possible, they've mentioned LORD RECLUSE and STATESMAN. If they didn't drink the water, they wouldn't exist, nor would anyone with super powers.
As to those honking on mightily about this being a lead up to the flashback system, all I have to say is... Hell to the friggin' no. This is an awesome story, with lots of potential for awesome new content. Not a friggin' way to go back and get stinkin' badges you've missed! Sheesh! I will be greatly disappointed if that's the major thing in this issue.
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If Manti and Recluse are working together to fix the timeline (or to alter it), it must have happened after Manti turned evil. Why pretend to be that violent, make up a story about how you killed your parents, if you were going to fix something? If this was something to do for the greater good, why all the subterfuge?
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Actually, I think I may have an answer for this one.
Imagine you are born into a world very much like the one we live in now, but some crucial event changed your life and you still remember the world we live in now and consider it to be real!.
Manticore was mentored by Back Alley Brawler, but now suddenly the Brawler's all comatose (possibly from some dire mishap Manticore himself was responsible for), but Manticore remembers being mentored by the Brawler. His memory is rich in detail from all the good times they had together that suddenly never happen!
That would tend to make a person a bit insane. They cannot trust their memory because when they compare their internal world to the world around them, there is a major disconnect. They are delusional, and they know they are delusional, but they also know without a doubt that the problem is the external world not linking up with their internal one, not vice-versa.
This would naturally lead to all the problems Manticore is described as having: substance abuse, violent acting out, complete disregard for human life, etc. Even his blunt dismissal of his girlfriend (arrow to the chest is a pretty final way to break up, eh?). After all, from the perspective of his internal world, she's not even real!
So Manticore finds the one person just as insane as he is and joins forces with him: Lord Recluse.
Maybe, just maybe and this is pure speculation now, the main game world is going to become this alternate reality the Paragon Times is hinting at. Only three people remember the world the way it should be: Lord Recluse, Manticore, and YOU! Lord Recluse then becomes the mission contact for villains trying to set things back to normal while Manticore becomes the hero contact.
Or maybe I'm the one who's delusional. 
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AE Story Arc #536752: Torn Asunder
An army from far, far away has been driven from their homeland and landed on Earth. They desperately need a new home and they're liking the look of ours.
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Does this mean if my Dominator enters this dimension, her history there is that of a hero? Could this be the whole "change" system we were hoping for long ago (Hero--->Villain/Villain--->Hero)?
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I doubt it. We'd see more evidence of characters being born on the other side, if so -- and in this case, Manticore started a hero and swapped sides midstream. Not the same thing as your history changing so you were never a hero/villain.
A lot of this we need to wait and see on... but the south america / wooden symbol / alternate timeline thing points vaguely in the direction of Flashback and/or Side Switch. It could just as easily point to New Story Arc only, though, with no major feature wrapped up in it.
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