Discussion: Paragon Times - 70 Years In Office
By
Alchemedic,
Posted on: 2007-09-27 14:21 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Hell, I find it ammusing that the President Marchand, looks alot like a certain someone from a certain sue happy comicbook company who attempted to sue NCSoft/Cryptic Studios, which ever. I would like to add that the simularity is rather fitting in both looks and character. 
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Also, there's a big Iron Man reference in there.
@Mindshadow
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I'm going to submit my two cents on this matter.
The current theory about this as I understand it is that this is a timeline "where you don't exist." although this theory is a good one, it does have a couple of holes I want to point out.
First, this new paper mentions that Recluse failed to take over Grandville, which is an event that happens way before "you" as a character are involved in the story. Something else has been done to the timeline. Also, villainside, "you" as a player, have virtually nothing to do with the zig raid's success. So while this does seem to be a timeline where "you" have been taken out of the equation, the cause Itself seems to be further up on the chain.
I could be over-analysing, but this is what I think.
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But it does sort of remind me of a standard Game Master (GM) technique for writing adventures.
Any GM who actually uses such a technique needs to be horse whipped.
The 'foreign terrorists' have a snowball's chance in hell of being the Fifth Column.
Fixed.
They aren't South American; they're foreign terrorists who fled to South America, which is what Nazis do.
They fled to Argentina, actually, which is kind of on the other end of the continent.
The mysterious foreign terrorists were driven out of America. The Fifth were driven out of America, by the Council coup.
No evidence in continuity that the 5th was driven out of the country. Yes, they might have been in an alternate timeline but then anyone else could have been too: the Sky Raiders, Malta, even the Council, all of which are actually known to have foreign operations to boot.
The ONLY group that Manticore and Swan both had a special interest in fighting is the Fith Column.
And the Council, which is who they're opposed to now in continuity.
Everybody hates them. The Columbians do, Manticore does, even Recluse does. That's about right for a Nazi group. Even the villains hate you.
Actually some of the Argentinans didn't hate them, among others....
Meta: The very fact that the writer of the article makes a mystery out of the group is good enough reason to suspect. Why not just name them?
Perhaps they just aren't important enough to be worth naming? Perhaps they were just Designated Receivers for Manticore and Recluse, to show the former had gone bad and was even shooting at his girlfriend?
Given what the devs have said in the past, if the 5th return (which they will not, at least not in anything like their old selves), it will not be as a side effect of something else. It will be with trumpets blaring and banners waving. The "compelling argument" for their involvement in i11 is a joke -- at least the Bigfoot advocates have pictures.
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And the Council, which is who they're opposed to now in continuity.
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As Manticore's background states, 'A coat of whitewash can't disguise his true enemies.'
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Perhaps they just aren't important enough to be worth naming?
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Don't be facetious. If their identity wasn't significant, Arctic Sun wouldn't have made an issue of it. He did. If they hadn't been important, then no details at all need have been given.
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Given what the devs have said in the past, if the 5th return (which they will not, at least not in anything like their old selves),
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'It's Venture. He's never met an unsupported, definitive statement he didn't like.'
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it will not be as a side effect of something else. It will be with trumpets blaring and banners waving.
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Are you so uncreative that you can't see how it could be both? We aren't finished with the shuffling timelines yet.
Positron only said that he wanted the return of the Fifth to be 'spectacular'. Do you really think that means another 'Invasion' setup?
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The "compelling argument" for their involvement in i11 is a joke -- at least the Bigfoot advocates have pictures.
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We'll see, won't we?
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Wow Babsy is dead...guess he didn't stay frosty.
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BaB, next time Manticore tries to kill you, RUN FASTER!
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Maybe Manticore didn't really join Recluse. Come on, people...
His arch-nemesis, Protean, is a shape shifter. How many times have you seen the plot where the villain takes over the heroe's identity and ruins his/her good name?
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Anybody find it odd that Jackson Turner has not filed a news article since late 2005. suddenly files 2 from what appears to be a different time stream and suddenly goes missing?
From that last article
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On September 21, Senior Times Correspondent Jackson Turner and Times photographer Juan Jimenez went on special assignment to Sirens Call to report further on the districts re-opening. On September 24, Juan Jimenez notified the Times that Jackson Turner went to meet with a confidential informant near the docks the day before. He never returned. On September 26, the Times recovered Turners laptop, containing the commentary above. Despite repeated inquiries, law enforcement officials have declined comment on this case. We at the Paragon Times will continue our own investigation into the matter. If anyone has information regarding Jackson Turners whereabouts, please contact the Paragon Times or your local law enforcement agency.
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The speculation goes up to 11! Its one higher!
Zyphoid said:
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...maybe Manticore and Recluse are the only ones that know history is out of shape...they could be working together to restore the natural order.
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This is actually a very cool theory.
DISCLAIMOR: I haven't read the entire thread yet because I wanted to make sure I quoted Z up there.
Obviously the screwed up timeline or alternate dimension is now a given, so maybe FLASHBACK is our new system. Both articles keep the side-switching theory in play as well: the "President" being a lovable Hitler, and the mixed-doubles match featuring the celebrities in the quote.
As stated by many, it looks like the 5th is a definite possibility (oxymoron intentional).
This is by far the best promotion of a new issue since I've been involved with the City. Great job devs! Also, great job my all you speculative forum monkeys!
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I can't imagine what Recluse and Manticore are searching for or who the mystery "rebels" they're fighting really are, but I have a feeling it's really bad news.
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The 'foreign terrorists' are almost certainly the Fifth Column.
<ul type="square"> [*]The mysterious foreign terrorists were driven out of America. The Fifth were driven out of America, by the Council coup. [/list]
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Well, not all of them were driven out. I have 3 on retainer as Gladiatorial talent. Some of them stayed and freelanced 
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The compelling evidence for the 5th (or, at least, what I find compelling) comes from the clues the UK board coordinator, Kerensky, has been posting all week. (You can read more on that here.)
In brief, he said the following things: "Hail Eris," "Obey the Laws," and "Fnord." The Eris and Fnord comments are from Discordianism, which prominently features the "Law of 5."
Add in some other comments he made, and the fact that each arm of the ourobouros contains exactly 5 notches, and the classified add containing a phone number that works out to (555) Ouroboros, and you've got an awful lot of 5's being thrown around.
Then, there's the fact that the fact that the Ourobouros image morphs very easily into a swastika (by moving two arms.)
I'm not convinced, but i sure am persuaded.
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Holy crap! You're friggin Rain Man!
Dedth said:
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The speculations have been pretty sound and not off the wall like "ZOMG! They're adding cooking as another thing you can do with the invention stuff!!!!".
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This made me laugh till I cried! Truly inspired! 
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The compelling evidence for the 5th (or, at least, what I find compelling) comes from the clues the UK board coordinator, Kerensky, has been posting all week. (You can read more on that here.)
In brief, he said the following things: "Hail Eris," "Obey the Laws," and "Fnord." The Eris and Fnord comments are from Discordianism, which prominently features the "Law of 5."
Add in some other comments he made, and the fact that each arm of the ourobouros contains exactly 5 notches, and the classified add containing a phone number that works out to (555) Ouroboros, and you've got an awful lot of 5's being thrown around.
Then, there's the fact that the fact that the Ourobouros image morphs very easily into a swastika (by moving two arms.)
I'm not convinced, but i sure am persuaded.
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Holy crap! You're friggin Rain Man!
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I like you Catharctic. You're funny.
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My favorite Hero Character is My Trick Arrows/Archery defender Gorgon-Girl (Teen sidekick to the Manticore- and yes i do realize i'm the only person on planet earth who loves those powersets).
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TA? YOu rolled TA?
*NOT-SO-RECENT MOVIE SPOILER*
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If Manti and Recluse are working together to fix the timeline (or to alter it), it must have happened after Manti turned evil. Why pretend to be that violent, make up a story about how you killed your parents, if you were going to fix something? If this was something to do for the greater good, why all the subterfuge?
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Actually, I think I may have an answer for this one.
Imagine you are born into a world very much like the one we live in now, but some crucial event changed your life and you still remember the world we live in now and consider it to be real!.
Manticore was mentored by Back Alley Brawler, but now suddenly the Brawler's all comatose (possibly from some dire mishap Manticore himself was responsible for), but Manticore remembers being mentored by the Brawler. His memory is rich in detail from all the good times they had together that suddenly never happen!
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This is a lot like the idea behind the movie Frequency. The events in the past get changed. The person who is in the present as he alters events in the past remembers both timelines, the new one like a vivid dream.
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Wait.
The Vindicators. Are now the Guardians.
...oh, very, very cute, Devs. Clearly, the new threat is Canadian.
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Absolutely correct. We've been building up our forces throughout the years and are now a sizeable minority in the City.
Issue 11 brings the next phase: Side switching WILL HAPPEN, but only for Canadian accounts. All of our heroes will instantly turn into villains and our villains will become... ok, they'll still be villains but they will be given pointy things to poke the heroes with.
ummm ow... having severly bad flashbacks to House of M, or House of Retcon as it should have been called, i severly hope that this is some fun little gimick and not NCsoft going marvel on us.
Awesome! The 5th column are back!
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Correct. The last article stated "Recluse of the Rogue Isles" while this one take him completely out of the Rogue Isles and into South America. But both mention the Outbreak Plague being out of hand.
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I wonder if somebody already noticed this.
Neither article mentions the Rikti at all ...
Nadira
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No, I'm willing to bet that Fish is a reference to the true mastermind behind this, mr. Sean Fish, Head writer, aka God of Lore at Cox
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Possibly, but "shark-like smile?"
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You obviously never have seen him smile when he snatches the last cookie from the table ...
Nadira
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Thoughts:
In the second set of Paragon Times articles, time seems to have been altered farther back than the first, indicating that the changes are going backwards.
The alterations implied in the first article took place roughly four years ago. The alterations implied in the second article took place in the 1960s.
If the Fifth Column is really behind this, the direction this is going seems pretty obvious.
I suspect in the next set of Paragon Times articles, the Axis will have won WWII.
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Thoughts:
In the second set of Paragon Times articles, time seems to have been altered farther back than the first, indicating that the changes are going backwards.
The alterations implied in the first article took place roughly four years ago. The alterations implied in the second article took place in the 1960s.
If the Fifth Column is really behind this, the direction this is going seems pretty obvious.
I suspect in the next set of Paragon Times articles, the Axis will have won WWII.
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Two experiments then the big one. Gotcha. Lets see if we can alter time proeprly then do it the way we want to finally o.o
-C.A
Ok, so we all have come up with cool, confusing, and awesome ideas, but have we all forgotten what this is?!?!? ITS A GAME SO WHERE DO WE, THE PLAYERS COME IN!!?!?!? How do we fit in to all of your stories and speculations!?!?!? I feel that some of you are thinking to far into this. I mean most of the stories all of you are coming out with do not involve, us, the players in any way! 
It's going to be very intersting to see what they "actually" have in store!
I for one can't wait. I would give a viable body part to be in the closed beta hehe,(no! not that body part!!!!)
If you want peace, you prepare for war!
-Vegetius
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I can't imagine what Recluse and Manticore are searching for or who the mystery "rebels" they're fighting really are, but I have a feeling it's really bad news.
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The 'foreign terrorists' are almost certainly the Fifth Column.
<ul type="square">[*]They aren't South American; they're foreign terrorists who fled to South America, which is what Nazis do. [*]The mysterious foreign terrorists were driven out of America. The Fifth were driven out of America, by the Council coup. [*]Manticore and Swan (Cisne) were fighting this group jointly. The ONLY group that Manticore and Swan both had a special interest in fighting is the Fith Column. Both Manticore and Swan lost parents to the Fifth.[*]Everybody hates them. The Columbians do, Manticore does, even Recluse does. That's about right for a Nazi group. Even the villains hate you. [*]Meta: The very fact that the writer of the article makes a mystery out of the group is good enough reason to suspect. Why not just name them? [/list]