Attacks on Developers and Moderators
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2007-02-08 15:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Maybe people wouldn't attack them so much if they'd take some communications classes and do a MUCH better job talking to us about fixing major bugs like the crashing that's been effecting far too many of us since I8 was released TWO MONTHS ago? Instead of directly taking on the effective way of talking to the PAYING customers about the ultra crappy game play the past TWO MONTHS with the crashing ALONE, they proceed to keep quiet about progress in fixing the bug, urgency in fixing the bug(I mean it's only been TWO MONTHS), they choose to spend their time talking about animation changes and what other MMOG's they've played before... Priorities are obviously really screwed up here. Don't they realize people are leaving because of the crashing and the inability of the devs to SERIOUSLY address the problem and talk to the community about it? I'm not talking nerfs, etc. I'm talking about a major problem that is effecting MANY MANY people. When 6 out of 8 people on your team crash, then most of them log because they've had enough of the crashing, you do your best to fill the team with new people, and then they also crash and log, it's a serious problem... Attacks on the devs and moderators to spend more time addressing major problems in the game instead of idle chit chat is totally acceptable with this situation because they devs and moderators seem to be tone deaf to important issues effecting the game.
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What do you want them to say? We KNOW they are aware of the situation- they started a whole thread on the subject to try and nail down the problem. Daily updates would just lead to more wasted time on answering stupid questions like "When will it get fixed" it will get fixed when they find out what is causing it. Not trying to be a dick to you KidQwik, but really you have to know they know of the problem, and they are trying to nail it down.
Taking a few minutes out of the day to drop a post in a thread about what games they previously played/worked on is a good thing and again it only takes a few minutes- but it improves customer realtions greatly.
Trust me they are not tone deaf of the situation. And it only hurts the issue when a few posters of less than reputable reputation can't go a day or two without posting a thread in the bugs thread filled with nothing but hyperbole and crap. It wastes time and creates more more problems and crap that the Dev's have to sift through to try and find the real causes to the problems.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Like every third person in here? 
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No, not really. I like Judas but he's that kind of extra-special angry and bitter. I am honestly amazed that he and Tazer didn't get banned a long time ago.
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This space is intentionally left blank.
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It's the nature of the internet, unfortunately. Anonymity + audience ... well, you know the rest.
There's just something about the 'net that makes people quick to abandon reason and common sense, and to take things a lot more personally than they really should if it means they can argue and complain more.
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Agreed. Oh, and compounding the problem is that most of the folks doing the complaining and have never been responsible for a large scale project. Once you have to build something yourself, you start learning about the challenges of limited resources, schedules, QA, trying to balance the needs of existing customers with the desire to expand the user base, the "fun" of getting a huge and complex piece of software to do new tricks it was never architected for, etc., etc. It's a tough job, and the devs show a remarkable amount of self-control in their posts to these boards.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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So, I'm not sure how often this is said but to Lighthouse and the rest of the Moderators.... Keep up the GOOD JOB!
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I would have agreed with this before they permabanned LaserJudas for no apparent reason.
Laser apostles don't grow on trees, y'know.
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I thought he was HasidicJudas now? Or is that someone different?
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Saer Maen
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Illuminance
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So, I'm not sure how often this is said but to Lighthouse and the rest of the Moderators.... Keep up the GOOD JOB!
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I would have agreed with this before they permabanned LaserJudas for no apparent reason.
Laser apostles don't grow on trees, y'know.
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I thought he was HasidicJudas now? Or is that someone different?
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No, they are the same guy-
Banned_Judas now........................
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
This thread HAD to be started by someone who either a) joined POST ED, or b) wasn't active here until POST ED.
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This thread HAD to be started by someone who either a) joined POST ED, or b) wasn't active here until POST ED.
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I was second wave CoH beta and have played since then.
The mods and devs are doing a good job imo. I don't experience any crashing bugs, think that I9 will be pretty interesting and will wait to see what the future holds.
Statesman, Positron, Lighthouse et al are doing a good job with what they have available to them. It's easy to forget, but they (Cryptic) are an independent game development studio who did the near impossible and created a MMOG that competes with the big, large dev studio funded MMOG genre. For that they deserve huge amounts of kudos and also for their ability to keep interesting new content coming out.
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This thread HAD to be started by someone who either a) joined POST ED, or b) wasn't active here until POST ED.
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His Reg date reads 9/09/05, which makes it about a week after ED hit. Of course, Reg dates are notoriously inaccurate...
On the subject of ED though:
Did ED hurt? Yeah. I have bittersweet memories of pre-ED gameplay.
Was it bad? No. ED was not bad for us. And with Inventions coming, ED was, and is, necessary.
I will say that I was very disappointed in the handling of ED. Not that it was a global readjustment (not quite a nerf because everything changed with it). I was unhappy with how releasing it was done: in secret and basically asking the CoV Beta'ers to proofread the announcement so that everyone else could swallow it easier. That was not particularly good at all.
Even with that black mark, I'll say it again to the Devs: Thank you. Rocks and all, this game has been (and continues to be) fun for me.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Statesman if you listening also positron and others I love this game and want to continue playing and support your efforts 100% but im really slummed about finding out about the whole marvel dispute I would hate to have CoX die within the next year or so especially to support a joint company development of Marvels MMO. I know the subscriptions have drastically dropped and since its launch its been down but I WOULD NOT play nor support marvels MMO at any cost. So if you guys are going to call it quits on CoX then I would be greatly disappointed it would be a lost of an excellent game. Could any of the DEVs shed some light on this matter?
[/ QUOTE ]Marvel is being developed by a different group of programmers than who works on CoH. There may or may not be some collaboration occasionally between the two teams, but reportedly Cryptic has over 200 staff now, which means plenty of folks to work on separate games without taking focus away from one or the other. City of.. is very profitable for them: It has had a stable 170k-ish subscribers for the past year-ish or so. It would be suicide to shunt it off to the weaklings at this point in time.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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A: Judas got banned? When?
B: I'm definitely pre ED but it hasn't really bothered me. I don't spend my time worrying about little things like squeezing every last percentage point out of enhancements. To be quite honest, the only change ED brought that I actually noticed was I not longer had perma-hasten and I did a "slots only" respec to spread them out from things that no longer benefited from 6 slotting like stamina and health.
I still have fun, and really, isn't that the entire point of all this?
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Maybe people wouldn't attack them so much if they'd take some communications classes and do a MUCH better job talking to us about fixing major bugs like the crashing that's been effecting far too many of us since I8 was released TWO MONTHS ago? ...[snip]... they devs and moderators seem to be tone deaf to important issues effecting the game.
[/ QUOTE ]Have you LOOKED in the Community/Dev Digest lately? There's been more posts by Castle, Positron, Statesman, Visigoth, et al, in the last two months than there was in the FIVE MONTHS before that! I mean, honestly. I think you're deliberately wearing blinders here.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Maybe people wouldn't attack them so much if they'd take some communications classes and do a MUCH better job talking to us about fixing major bugs like the crashing that's been effecting far too many of us since I8 was released TWO MONTHS ago? ...[snip]... they devs and moderators seem to be tone deaf to important issues effecting the game.
[/ QUOTE ]Have you LOOKED in the Community/Dev Digest lately? There's been more posts by Castle, Positron, Statesman, Visigoth, et al, in the last two months than there was in the FIVE MONTHS before that! I mean, honestly. I think you're deliberately wearing blinders here.
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There was a time when you couldn't enter a thread on this forum without tripping over a red name.
The dev communication was unbelievable. Until some of them were no longer willing to put up with the hostility of some posters here in this forum.
I miss Geko's posts.
** Leaves out a plate of cookies as Geko bait **
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A: Judas got banned? When?
B: I'm definitely pre ED but it hasn't really bothered me. I don't spend my time worrying about little things like squeezing every last percentage point out of enhancements. To be quite honest, the only change ED brought that I actually noticed was I not longer had perma-hasten and I did a "slots only" respec to spread them out from things that no longer benefited from 6 slotting like stamina and health.
I still have fun, and really, isn't that the entire point of all this?
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Waiteminute!
You're having fun?!?!?!?!
HEATHEN!
I took Gravity for Wormhole and Propel.
Nothing says Lovin' like hitting 'em with an oven. -AddamsFamily
I've never had much of a problem with ED and since I just started playing with my Nemesis staff this week I've been here awhile.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Geko is no longer with CoH, so Geko-bait is unlikely to work. 
However, I'm just saying - gotta have blinders to not see they're ramping up the communication lately. I just honestly think that they were in a slump, crunching to get I7 out, then crunching to get I7 fixed as best they could before I8 got out, then crunching to get I8 out on time. I9's inventions look largely finished from the latest leaks on Test, down to the tweaks and fidgets, which puts the biggest load off their shoulders...meaning they have time to stretch their legs and meander on over here from out of the rabbit hole. Yes, they still have bugs to fix in I8, but the biggest crunch in I9 seems to be mostly finished.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
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Maybe people wouldn't attack them so much if they'd take some communications classes and do a MUCH better job talking to us about fixing major bugs like the crashing that's been effecting far too many of us since I8 was released TWO MONTHS ago? ...[snip]... they devs and moderators seem to be tone deaf to important issues effecting the game.
[/ QUOTE ]Have you LOOKED in the Community/Dev Digest lately? There's been more posts by Castle, Positron, Statesman, Visigoth, et al, in the last two months than there was in the FIVE MONTHS before that! I mean, honestly. I think you're deliberately wearing blinders here.
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There was a time when you couldn't enter a thread on this forum without tripping over a red name.
The dev communication was unbelievable. Until some of them were no longer willing to put up with the hostility of some posters here in this forum.
I miss Geko's posts.
** Leaves out a plate of cookies as Geko bait **
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He never really posted very much as I recall. _Castle_ has been far more forthcoming with players about how powers work, upcoming changes and the like then Geko was.
Heroes
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Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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So, I'm not sure how often this is said but to Lighthouse and the rest of the Moderators.... Keep up the GOOD JOB!
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I would have agreed with this before they permabanned LaserJudas for no apparent reason.
Laser apostles don't grow on trees, y'know.
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I thought he was HasidicJudas now? Or is that someone different?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they are the same guy-
Banned_Judas now........................
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Ah. Must have happened in the last few days then.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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I think the problem is most people don't know what its like to be a developer on any project. Like you can just wave your magic code wand and have new ATs and powersets just fall to the floor. If they had any idea what it was really like, then they would have a little sympathy.
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Well, this why I'm usually pretty mellow about this kind of stuff. I have a pretty good idea what goes on behind the scenes in this sort of stuff. All the same, it would be nice if someone could come up with an idea that would make it possible to see things like power customization and the like. I'd also like to know why Cryptic hasn't taken advantage of many possible merchandising opportunities that exist with CoX because of its ties with comics.
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I think the problem is most people don't know what its like to be a developer on any project. Like you can just wave your magic code wand and have new ATs and powersets just fall to the floor. If they had any idea what it was really like, then they would have a little sympathy.
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Honestly, I wouldn't... I wouldn't have any sympathy at all.
As Statesman says, the criticism comes with the job. If they can't handle it or don't want it, then they should take their coding skills to a field that doesn't have such high expectations from the customer base.
Unfortunately quite a few have... or have left for greener, newer pastures for other reasons.
As much as I dislike the bugs (hello, invisible objects... I'm in mortal fear of being AS'd by a cobbled-together generator on a Freak map, here.) I still play this game pretty much every DAY since I bought it... and thatw as 18 months ago.
Yes.
Every. DAY.
At my worst EQ moments it was once every three or four days. WoW, I jumped into it for a few hours a day over the course of a week or two, then backed off.
So, yeah, as much as I like to moan, whine, [censored], and complain... I'd REALLY have a lot to complain about if this game were to, I dunno, go away.
Kind of how I keep my sense of perspective, there.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Unfortunately quite a few have... or have left for greener, newer pastures for other reasons.
As much as I dislike the bugs (hello, invisible objects... I'm in mortal fear of being AS'd by a cobbled-together generator on a Freak map, here.) I still play this game pretty much every DAY since I bought it... and thatw as 18 months ago.
Yes.
Every. DAY.
At my worst EQ moments it was once every three or four days. WoW, I jumped into it for a few hours a day over the course of a week or two, then backed off.
So, yeah, as much as I like to moan, whine, [censored], and complain... I'd REALLY have a lot to complain about if this game were to, I dunno, go away.
Kind of how I keep my sense of perspective, there.
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/signed, Prof. I'm an "every day" player, too. So's my wife and stepdaughter.
Remember..."the family that fights together, stays all right together".
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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I'd also like to know why Cryptic hasn't taken advantage of many possible merchandising opportunities that exist with CoX because of its ties with comics.
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The comics and novels failed miserably. Even many of the players of the game didn't want the comic free with their subscription, it was so bad, hence the option they had to put in to not have it sent to you.
The CoH "signature" characters are bland mashes of overused cliches, and this goes for heroes and villlains. So I'm not sure what they'd used for merchandising that would have any appeal.
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I'd also like to know why Cryptic hasn't taken advantage of many possible merchandising opportunities that exist with CoX because of its ties with comics.
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The comics and novels failed miserably. Even many of the players of the game didn't want the comic free with their subscription, it was so bad, hence the option they had to put in to not have it sent to you.
The CoH "signature" characters are bland mashes of overused cliches, and this goes for heroes and villlains. So I'm not sure what they'd used for merchandising that would have any appeal.
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Well , you are entitled to your opinion which i personally find a little too harsh... The comics werent that bad imho. I especially liked the Blue King studio writing who was so often relating to the stuff players see in game... And as far as saying that CoX signature heroes are cliches... well , maybe they somewhat are but it doesnt make them as bad as completely unique heroes that are sooo unique that they look just too weird in the end to be liked. One Spawn at times is cool but i like also to see that simple good old heroes ala Thor or Captain America or Statesman arent completely forgotten.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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There was a time when you couldn't enter a thread on this forum without tripping over a red name.
The dev communication was unbelievable. Until some of them were no longer willing to put up with the hostility of some posters here in this forum.
I miss Geko's posts.
** Leaves out a plate of cookies as Geko bait **
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I think the reduction in posting has more to do with self-inflicted wounds.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Well in regards to the moderators alot can come down to individual reactions and perceptions people have with each. Remember that not every issue is at first discussed on teh boards and in fact people can often get fed up and vent especially if they feel ignored or mistreated they may lash out to make a point. Fact is moderators and community representatives are the customer service aspect of this industry. Customer service has and always will take the brunt of peoples abuse and often ignored in praise unless they are beyond exceptional or luck out with people that understand what they go through. I personally have spent the last 20 years primarily in one aspect of customer service and or interaction or another. I admire great customer service and have no tolerance for poor personally. But I also know that people have bad days and believe that things should be handle situation by situation and once one situation is done it is done move on and think of it no more. At any rate overall the community reps and moderators are doing a good job. Some support have stood out far ahead of others and some far below as is the way of customer service no one can please everyone all teh time and sometimes people no matter how hard one may try will never see eye to eye.
As for the developers they had in the past been their own worst enemy as they themselves can freely admit. Statements made or not made can create alot of frustration to players, giving hints has in the past bite them in the [censored] and not giving hints turns around and creates impatient frustration. They cannot please everyone all the time, I myself have been taken aback by some of their decisions at first but have seen the benefit of many of those I may have disagreed with at first over time. The fact is they are now far more caustious about what they say because of the potential aftermath of misunderstanding taht may occur now. This is unfortunate as they seem far more qeuit then they had been in the past. But as well is understandable due to all the crap flung at them as well. I admire the developers for addressing even those who have been abusive towards them in the past and their ability to try to understand all sides of things as best as one could I believe firmly that they aboe all else have a love for this game and its continued existance and my hats off to them for that.