Stetting up for Item of power! thanks ahead of tim
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2006-07-21 14:46 in Base Construction
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind. Some of us wish we could have Items of Power *without* opening up our base to raids, much the same way we collect Accolaid powers even though a +5% Endurance boost really doesn't help much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither will the IOP bonuses (unless they've changed from original bonus design).
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. I'll re-quote Posi's earlier statement:
[ QUOTE ]
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Again, emphasis mine) The bonus apparently HAS changed from the original design. By how much, we don't know yet, but it might not be trivial any more. We'll just have to wait and see.
[ QUOTE ]
Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious, since this seems to be different from the old design -- does this mean that the future raids will not be scheduled? If so, what, if any, provision do you have to make people PvP for IoPs? It'd be neat if it was instant raids only, because then people who wanted to PvE for them could get them and never worry about losing them, but people who wanted to PvP could do so and possibly obtain many of them that way.
I somehow don't imagine most SGs will be able to get CoP groups together regularly, so the PvP option offers an advantage -- it's (perhaps) easier and (probably) faster to get multiple IoPs that way. On the other hand, if required PvP is removed for the IoPs, it doesn't force anyone to PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll try to clear things up:
Original Design: 5 Day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then held it for 25 days, reaping the bonus. Then it disappeared and you would need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
Original Design: During the 25 (now 21) days you hold the Item, you would be vulnerable to raiding from another Supergroup who would try to steal your IoP in PvP combat. These raids were "scheduled" so that both SGs knew when to have members on to attack/defend.
New Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are not susceptible to losing your Item of Power.
Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items).
[/ QUOTE ]
nice, which means these first incarnations we arn't going to be able to get our IoP's stolen. neat, i like that you are releaseing the trial.
though when you say (now larger) bonus, it also makes me think you increased the IoP percentages to be larger. any truth to this assumption?
Assumption? That was pretty explicit, the bonuses are larger than they were in Beta.
Granted, they could still be small (what was a 1% damage boost in beta might be a 2% boost now, a whopping 100% improvement!), but they are apparently better than they were.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind. Some of us wish we could have Items of Power *without* opening up our base to raids, much the same way we collect Accolaid powers even though a +5% Endurance boost really doesn't help much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither will the IOP bonuses (unless they've changed from original bonus design).
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. I'll re-quote Posi's earlier statement:
[ QUOTE ]
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Again, emphasis mine) The bonus apparently HAS changed from the original design. By how much, we don't know yet, but it might not be trivial any more. We'll just have to wait and see.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the refresher ... I stand informed. A change from 1% to 2% is still an improvement. Place your bets? 
edit: to be succinct, my opinion on the opportunity cost of obtaining, and defending a future IOP hasn't changed.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind. Some of us wish we could have Items of Power *without* opening up our base to raids, much the same way we collect Accolaid powers even though a +5% Endurance boost really doesn't help much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither will the IOP bonuses (unless they've changed from original bonus design).
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. I'll re-quote Posi's earlier statement:
[ QUOTE ]
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Again, emphasis mine) The bonus apparently HAS changed from the original design. By how much, we don't know yet, but it might not be trivial any more. We'll just have to wait and see.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the refresher ... I stand informed. A change from 1% to 2% is still an improvement. Place your bets?
edit: to be succinct, my opinion on the opportunity cost of obtaining, and defending a future IOP hasn't changed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mine hasn't either, except that now I'll probably try to get my sg to the point that we can get an IoP in the initial no-base-raid stage. Taking too big a chance at losing actual items (and their prestige) in a raid (once they're enabled) just doesn't sound fun to me, no matter how big the bonus is.
If they would make it so that your stuff re-generated after a raid (like instant raids) so that the only consequence of losing a scheduled raid would be losing your IoP, I doubt it'd even be worth the hassle to me then to be honest.
Ok, I will say it - what is to stop gankers waiting until 2am on the very first day you get your item to Raid you?
I am sorry but this idea seems rife with potential abuse and griefing. Perhaps I don't know of griefing protections?
Seems to me that 2 SGs wait until you get the item attack enmass off hours and if the first one can't get it the second one does.
Can 2 SGs attack you at once? If not I get an item of power, I have a second account alt join a sister SG and have the alt enter my base to "attack" - they are never attacked and I hold the item for 21 days. I guess I need to see more on this.
I seem to recall the original design included that you had to provide a set of times when you were open to be raided. The raiders chose one of those.
I suppose it allows for a sort of "schedule grieving" where you say you're only open to be raided at 4AM. But then when someone takes you up on that, you'd have to buck up.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Well, from my experience, everyone I started the game with has bailed on it due to the incessant catering of the Devs to PvP issues. They felt it was a big bait-and-switch done by the Devs to suck in a reasonable subscriber base before "balancing" things that would have really never ever mattered in a pure PvE game but do have an impact in a PvP game. In fact. I would hazard a guess that had CoH opened up with PvP it wouldn't have made it to year two due to lack of the publics interest. Further more I will also issue the opinion that had all the resources that had and have and will be devoted to PvP would be far better spent from NCSofts and Cryptics on only the development of new and interesting PvE content. The continued emphasis on PvP is only going to lead to fewer and fewer folks playing IMHO.
[/ QUOTE ]
If what's been said about the Asian market is true, then the COH Korea launch will significantly, and permanantly, alter the balance of power in PVP's favor.
This is good news indeed.
I typed my frist post as Posi was making his so did not see his explanation before I hit submit.
[ QUOTE ]
The point is that you have to run the trial again if you want the bonus. Think of it as something else about bases you have to upkeep.
[/ QUOTE ]
It appeared to me that the item could only be kept 7 days, then lost and 21 until you could get another. Positron clarified this, but I was never a fan--nor will ikely ever be--of rent/upkeep. Rent is annoying enough to have in real life. I don't like it in game too. That's just me.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
I guess that I have to interject at this point...
the devs often speak in terms of "3 weeks" "several weeks" "fairly active players able to attain this or that in 6 months", "levels 1-50 in a few months"...
i am sorry but those time frames are just eternities to the average player.
i certainly understand that you are thinking in terms of long term subscription status but for example...
bases (even with the new changes) are set up for 3 or 4 active friends to be able to afford in a few months... what about the normal player thats frankly just a solo guy that makes friends and joins any ole team to get levels...
maybe he makes a few friends along the way, but he really just is "hero that will join any team".
this new cathedral of pain is off for 3 weeks??? thats a lifetime in this game. i fully understand long term intents... but sometimes you devs kind of set the casual gamer up for failure and frustration
i dont think that you mean to... i just dont think that you fully understand that most of your customer base is not an 18 hour a day power gamer... but rather a "3-5 times a week, few hours a session" player.
many of those players feel alienated by those who go from level 1-50 in 3 weeks due to power gaming
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The point is that you have to run the trial again if you want the bonus. Think of it as something else about bases you have to upkeep.
[/ QUOTE ]
It appeared to me that the item could only be kept 7 days, then lost and 21 until you could get another. Positron clarified this, but I was never a fan--nor will ikely ever be--of rent/upkeep. Rent is annoying enough to have in real life. I don't like it in game too. That's just me.
[/ QUOTE ]
28 day cycle.
first 7 days, the CoP trial is active and SG's can attempt to get IoPs. In fact they can acquire UPTO 5 by doing this.
After the 7th day, the CoP trial closes, and for the next 21 days, the only way an SG can acquire an IoP is by raiding another SG.
At the end of the 28th day, all IoP's in play are retrieved by the ruualruu. And a new cycle begins. Starting with the 7 day CoP trial open.
etc. etc. ad naseum
[ QUOTE ]
I'll try to clear things up:
Original Design: 5 Day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then held it for 25 days, reaping the bonus. Then it disappeared and you would need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
Original Design: During the 25 (now 21) days you hold the Item, you would be vulnerable to raiding from another Supergroup who would try to steal your IoP in PvP combat. These raids were "scheduled" so that both SGs knew when to have members on to attack/defend.
New Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are not susceptible to losing your Item of Power.
Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items).
[/ QUOTE ]
All of that is AWESOME news.... UNTIL the last two sentences... I'll get whatever badges are associated with it before I'm once again forced into PvP for a badge.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I will say it - what is to stop gankers waiting until 2am on the very first day you get your item to Raid you?
I am sorry but this idea seems rife with potential abuse and griefing. Perhaps I don't know of griefing protections?
Seems to me that 2 SGs wait until you get the item attack enmass off hours and if the first one can't get it the second one does.
Can 2 SGs attack you at once? If not I get an item of power, I have a second account alt join a sister SG and have the alt enter my base to "attack" - they are never attacked and I hold the item for 21 days. I guess I need to see more on this.
[/ QUOTE ]
The following applies to IoP raids, not Instant Raids, AFAIK:
When you get your IoP, you set a time window during which you can be attacked.
When an attacker decides to mount a raid, his target is chosen at random from among the raidable bases, although he does get to pick whether he attacks a hero or villain base, and what time window. He has no idea whether he is up against a bunch of noobs or uber elites until he zones into the enemy base.
The attacker cannot choose a time window less than 2 days in advance. The defender is informed that a raid is coming at least 2 days in advance, so you both have 2 days to prepare.
Since you cannot pick who you are attacking, you can't pick on a certain group, or raid a friend on purpose.
2 SGs can not raid a single SG at a time.
You cannot raid an SG that has fewer IoPs than you do. If you have more IoPs than anyone else, you can't mount raids, and anyone can raid you.
It costs Prestige to mount a raid. Whether or not you can lose Prestige from being the target of a raid is unknown. A raid defender can possibly lose Salvage (in the form of built and placed items).
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I will say it - what is to stop gankers waiting until 2am on the very first day you get your item to Raid you?
[/ QUOTE ]
YOU decide when you can be raided. You get to pick two 'windows' per week. So you're never in any danger of being raided at an unexpected time.
[ QUOTE ]
first 7 days, the CoP trial is active and SG's can attempt to get IoPs. In fact they can acquire UPTO 5 by doing this.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure you can get more than 5 IoP's per open window - it's just that you don't get any benefit from more than 5 IoP's of the same type (at least that's how things were working when it was last on test). Say you had won 5 Monuments of Power from your first 5 successful runs of the Cathedral of Pain, you could still run it a 6th time and if you won another Monument of Power it would still show up in your base, you just wouldn't get any extra benefit from it.
Of course the chances of you having 5 Monuments of Power and nothing else would probably be quite low - there are several IoP's that can be gained and it's pretty much random as to which type you get upon comlpetion of the Cathedral of Pain. I'm not sure how the 'shard-unique' ones work - I know we got one on test last time (the lovely True Furnace), but I don't know if they just go out to the first few successful runs or whether they are just randomly assigned until each one has been won by someone (there can only be one of each of those per server at any time).
It's also still not clear (to me at least) when attacking a base with multiple IoP's whether the raiding SG will have any say in which of the defenders' IoP's they get to steal - there are several ways to successfully win an attack (destroy enough anchors, deploy enough pylons, directly attack an IoP forcefield and click the IoP), and the third of those may allow the attackers to target a specific IoP - the other two suggest a random IoP would be stolen.
Posi, I think I speak for a large amount of the people playing the game when I say there are a lot of people willing to try this content due to it not being raidable at the onset.
However, I also know a lot of people who will be upset when this trial ends, and bases can be raided. Some groups would like some sort of benefit from running this without having to worry about massive risks associated with groups coming in and destroying everything in their base before focusing on the things needed to win a raid. Even if the raid fails, the results could be catastrophic for groups who many not be able to maintain the base, effectively making the IoP worthless anyway.
I'd really like to see some sort of content that would allow some groups willing to try to gain a significantly powered IoP (say 5% instead of the previous 1%) and allow others to attempt the same content but select an IoP that provides a more modest (the old beta 1%) buff. This would clearly allow the hardcore PvP SG's who want to get the IoP's for significant buffs something to work for, while still allowing moderately sized, potentially non-PvP groups the option to maintain a base capable of raiding for instant purposes to hold onto one of these lesser powered IoP's.
Is that asking too much, or do you think there would be a way to integrate the reward system to allow something like this? Possibly a pop up window where one of the SG leaders would get the option of selecting which type, and which power level of IoP they would receive.
As an even further incentive for PvP raidable groups, how about allow the more powerful IoP's to be selectable, while the lesser powered would be random droped IoP's. Likewise, cap the number of limited power IoP's a group could obtain. This would prevent protective groups from going out and getting 15 Damage IoP's to effectively be the same level of effectiveness as 3 of the raidable ones.
I'm just trying to find a fair common ground for the large PvP groups and the moderately to large sized non-PvP groups.
Speaking of base raids for IoP:
There are many items that do not list if they are destroyable in base raids. Personally, I hate the concept of it but if you are going to have it can you please put a definitive in EVERY item description?
The question was asked earlier in this thread; however, it hasn't been addressed yet.
Requirements have been listed to receive an Item of Power but no requirements have been listed as to just participating.
Personally, I don't care about the Item of Power. I would like to be able to participate in new content.
Posi, is it possible to participate in the Cathedral of Pain task force if you do not have a supergroup base set up?
Thanks
ok so final clarification for us stupid ppl, CoP trial is currently not live and will not be live until at least i8 correct. also, are base raids possible now or are they not live at the moment either? im sure this was addressed earlier but i must have missed it. thanks
Although, I love this game and want to see it continue . . . I'm not too optimistic about the Korean market for one simple reason: Superheros are more a western concept.
I'm not so sure how well the Asian market will grasp a "superhero" MMO.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I think the entire thing is a great idea. IIRC You get the item, you MUST set a raid time, but you can be raided by any SG in that time frame, but the raiders are blind to who they are raiding, they just know that item XXX is in SGB YYY so roll-the-dice. If the buff from the IoP is really worth the trial and the raid defending, then this could really ROCK. What I am not clear on is if this IoP buff applies to everymember of the SG no matter where they are, or does it only apply while in the SG base?
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Every SG member gets the buff no matter where they are at.
What everyone is forgetting is that it will take ~24 SG members to even complete the CoP Trial. So all you little groups out there shouldn't even be worrying about it because you won't have a chance to get an IoP anyway. 
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind. Some of us wish we could have Items of Power *without* opening up our base to raids, much the same way we collect Accolaid powers even though a +5% Endurance boost really doesn't help much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither will the IOP bonuses (unless they've changed from original bonus design).
[ QUOTE ]
...Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items)
[/ QUOTE ]
Glad you asked. Secure plots and defense items are base features I think most of the player base could care less about obtaining ... mainly due them being too expensive. Why even strive to obtain these items in defense of a pittance bonus when the cost & design of the base system precludes most from ever obtaining one?