Stetting up for Item of power! thanks ahead of tim
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2006-07-21 14:46 in Base Construction
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So nothing has changed but the 5 days changed to 7 days?
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What's changed is that for a limited time only, you'll be able to get IoPs without worrying about people raiding you.
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And no where does Cricket say that.
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As it stands right now, on the hero side it's not even worth having a supergroup computer.
Frankly, I'm kind of baffled as to why anyone would want to risk their prestige over a paltry 1% boost from an IoP. I dislike PvP as it is. Unless there is a MAJOR overhaul to the IoP system as it has been described previously, I will not be interested in the slightest.
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QFE
With the ongoing focus that we hear about risk/return, this completely fails the test.
IoP bonuses must extend over Coalitions and cost of base items to replace or to *protect from damage* must be better weighed against this value. Devs must understand that SGs are not getting 75 (max characters in the SG) x 1% or 2% bonus for IoPs in general. Many (most?) SGs are filled with alts and most SGs have additional SGs coalitioned for even more alts.
I played 40 hours this weekend on 3 different character that were cycled into our main group. I played on large teams, did task forces, etc. I earned 150k of prestige with the rates doubled (and a lot of ill-will from the wife) and what does 150k buy? Sqaut, sorry to say. And I'm going to see 40 hours of my effort blown away after a raid so that i can get a 2 percent damage increase for a month or two?
Sorry, not thought out from the player's perspective.
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And no where does Cricket say that.
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As I said, I received clarification in a PM.
Me: So this is only temporary, and the plan is still ultimately to have SGs raiding IoPs off each other?
Cricket:
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To my knowledge, yes, that is the plan. 
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Ahhh now we finally get to what I think are your true intentions. Griefing. You appear to get no fun out of the game except when there is the potential for you to go slag someone elses work, read Base, IOP gathering effots. All is clear now.
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Interaction with something other than a pre-programmed, reluctant to adapt AI system could also be considered a challenge. Pro Zack knows how much hard work it takes to farm prestige and, knowing him, I highly doubt he really cares about obliterating another base or having the same done to his. The consequence I would assume he's referring to would be the possibility of losing in PvP and, potentially, losing an IoP.
Griefing forum trolls, sheesh.
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Agreed, I don't think he was wanting to sound like he'll be greifing, nor do I think its his intention. I am all for the base raids, but the thing is our SG is still too small for it, not as in base size, but as in the sheer number who are frequently on. Now I like this limited window of opportunity to raid and get an IoP, have that experience in CoP so it all can be done more smoothly when the raids do go active. Plus I'd like to earn a badge (if possible) on the CoP before the raids go active, this way I get what I wanted most out of it and work on my base to get ready and willing for the real deal.
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What's changed is that for a limited time only, you'll be able to get IoPs without worrying about people raiding you.
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And no where does Cricket say that.
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Yes she does.
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Scheduled Base Raids are currently non-functional, but we wanted you to at least participate in the Cathedral of Pain and Item of Power portions while we address the Raid functionality internally.
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As for the main debate:
From what I gather (I could be wrong), the 21 day timer will only be in effect until raiding is live. IoPs were designed with the fact that you can lose them (in PvP) in mind. It was never intended for you to get them and keep them forever. Without PvP in place, the loss of your IoP is now guaranteed ... after three weeks. Once PvP is running, I imagine that you'll get to keep your Items for as long as you can hang on to them.
If I'm right about all this, the solution to appease everybody once PvP goes live seems pathetically obvious: allow Cathedral victors to choose whether they want a permanent (and raidable) Item of Power, or a temporary (but non-raidable) one. PvP enthusiasts, including the pro-PvP Asian market, can pick the former. The PvP-shy Americans/Europeans/whatevers can pick the latter. The PvP minority in City of Heroes can still duke it out with the like-minded; a theoretical PvE minority in City of Hero could earn and enjoy a temporary reward. Cryptic would get their trillion dollars and world peace would finally be achieved.
Next problem.
what exactly will the items of power be does anyone know and what will they do that make them worth the effort being put in to them?
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From what I gather (I could be wrong), the 21 day timer will only be in effect until raiding is live. IoPs were designed with the fact that you can lose them (in PvP) in mind. It was never intended for you to get them and keep them forever. Without PvP in place, the loss of your IoP is now guaranteed ... after three weeks. Once PvP is running, I imagine that you'll get to keep your Items for as long as you can hang on to them.
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The original intent described in Beta was that the Items of Power will still be reclaimed when the CoP trial period comes 'round again AND they can be taken in raids.
@Mindshadow
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what exactly will the items of power be does anyone know and what will they do that make them worth the effort being put in to them?
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I don't remember what they are. Just goofy stuff like swirling black spheres and cosmic glowing whatevers.
They give very small bonuses to your whole SG, such as a 2% increase to all damage, or 1% bonus to all earned xp, for as long as you have them in your base. It is possible that these figures will be boosted later to incentivize Items, but the devs decided to start small and boost later rather than start big and have to nerf.
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I assume Cricket means the PvP base raids to steal IoP from other SGs has some problems. Cryptic might have learned by now, appease the PvE crowd first, they are the majority. PvP and all its components should be put on the back burner, if not set on fire and stomped out like a bag of dog doo-doo.
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DUNT DUH DUH inflammatory post AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!
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It will be good to see this brought to the live servers finally. Thanks for the info Cricket.
@artphobia
To the best dev team ever: I enjoyed meeting you all at the Summits and best of luck in all your future endeavors.
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I was wondering the same thing. Maybe she meant that it will be PvE oriented because base raids aren't functioning so you won't have to worry about having another group raid your base just because you have an IoP?
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Cricket just confirmed in PM that yes, this is the case, but only until base raids are working. The design is still, ultimately, to have SGs raiding IoPs from each other.
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That blows chunks unless they do something about the loss of prestige from raiding.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
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The original intent described in Beta was that the Items of Power will still be reclaimed when the CoP trial period comes 'round again AND they can be taken in raids.
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Hmmm, I guess that makes sense, otherwise the "IoP economy" would get all weird. Every faucet needs a drain.
I still hold out hope that some option will be extended to the PvP hatas even after scheduled raids go live. It can still work!!
<-- hysterically trying to remain optimistic
I think it'll fall into the trap of empowerment stations and bases in general. Large time expense for small return. If I had to place bets, I suspect that the large SGs will take part in it, raids or no, if for no other reason than because they run organized TFs and events anyway, and this is just another one of those. Mid-range SGs will probably do it once or twice to say they've done it/earn the relevant badges and then never go back.
It's definitely more geared towards large SG content in any event.
It's always possible that I'll be wrong of course.
@Mindshadow
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You are correct. The trial itself was (and will be) all PvE. But there was PvP in the Cathedral of Pain process: it is the next step in the cycle (raiding) where the PvP came into play. That isn't part of the trial run itself, but there is a connection. If you walked away from the trial with an Item of Power it meant that you should probably expect to be raided by another supergroup.
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Can you run the trial and not accept the Item of Power if it is awarded? My SG is really not interested in the whole PVP aspect of the game but we would be interested in the TF. If we have to accept Item of Power we would just like to set it up where would be raiders could just come in and take it without resistance in return for not destroying our equipment in the base.
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Then it will be off for 21 days, after which you will lose the Items of Power and this cycle repeats.
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LOSE them? Are you freaking kidding? What's the point then?
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
The point is that you have to run the trial again if you want the bonus. Think of it as something else about bases you have to upkeep.
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The forums and the player base of CoX have shown repeatedly that PvP is in reality not something they care too much about.
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So you're saying that there is no forum or website for City of Hero? That it does not have it's own PR's that relay information to and from the devs? Their forum emoticons are also more awesome than ours. 
And actually the MMO Market is much bigger in Asia (specifically S. Korea and China) than the US.
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No what I was saying is that they are two seperate worlds. Two seperate markets and therefore must be dealt with as seperate entities. Naturally Asia is a bigger market, population density alone dictates that reality. But their customer base in the states and Europe are less about PvP than the Asian market. As I said apples and chickens.
You dont call it a Chevy Nova in Mexico otherwise it will not sell.
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Sorry, but you may want to get your facts straight. I understand the message you are trying to present, but using something that never happened as proof/evidence is not wise. I am referring to your last line. The Cevy Nova did sell in Latin America and actually did well.
Here, try these sites on for a bit of reading up:
The Legend of the Chevy Nova That Would Not Go
Urban Legends Reference Page
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But what challenge do the toons face to need the buff? Surely there's no content that would make a buff necessary in the game as it is.
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If one takes this logic to the limit, then there is no content than makes slotting with SOs necessary so why have them? And there is no content that *requires* inspirations. So why have those? Same goes for temp powers and badges, and accolades. Dude, folks like to collect shiny things far more than there is ever a *need* for them. Especially in this game. Now in games like Everquest and WoW, if you don't have the gear (shiny things) there is content that is simply and totally impossible. Why try to turn this game into Everquest or WoW when quite simply it's not.
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IOPs can help power your bases, but what purpose do the bases serve without a raiding system? They are now very nice looking places to store enhancements and inspirations.
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Bases have a variety of useful functions without a raiding system. You realy need to stop glaring at these issues through your rose colored pro-PvP glasses. There is a huge amount of convience functions that come with bases. But hey, lets pitch all of that for you since as per above "there is no content that requires the buff, ie convience features, that a base provides" outside of base raids. In fact, just for you, why not turn all bases into Arenas open to everyone, and get rid off all that convience stuff. Wait, Arenas were already tried and well... were pretty much abysmal failures.
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There seems to never be any jeopardy attached to any activity or choice in COH - and without jeopardy there isn't a challenge for the players to rise to.
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Ahhh now we finally get to what I think are your true intentions. Griefing. You appear to get no fun out of the game except when there is the potential for you to go slag someone elses work, read Base, IOP gathering effots. All is clear now.
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Um - okay.
I have to agree with part of your analysis - there isn't much point in doing anything with your toons if they have no challenges to face. Thus, the disappointment at the lack of challenging end-game content (PVP or PVE).
I am pro-PVP. I didn't realize that I was a griefer, but I do like the idea of having things that I can fight for and possibly lose. I love the idea of having some challenges that my SG can face together -- that we could fight for something and win or lose. Competition is fun for a lot of us, if not for everyone.
Also, I really enjoy COx and care about the future of the game. It concerns me that the failure to deliver on key promised elements will further erode the player base, especially as new games come out with more aggressive development plans. Remember, we really haven't had any new challenges for heroes in over a year. That takes a toll on our SGs and on the player base as a whole.
I doubt that my experience of having lost dozens of friends to other MMOs is unique, judging from the empty streets I see in PI and Talos.
I'll try to clear things up:
Original Design: 5 Day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then held it for 25 days, reaping the bonus. Then it disappeared and you would need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
Original Design: During the 25 (now 21) days you hold the Item, you would be vulnerable to raiding from another Supergroup who would try to steal your IoP in PvP combat. These raids were "scheduled" so that both SGs knew when to have members on to attack/defend.
New Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are not susceptible to losing your Item of Power.
Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items).
Positron
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That's awesome news - I was worried that raids had become back burner . Thanks for the post.
So, wait...we won't be able to raid bases for IoPs now? Talk about a huge let down. 
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Um - okay.
I have to agree with part of your analysis - there isn't much point in doing anything with your toons if they have no challenges to face. Thus, the disappointment at the lack of challenging end-game content (PVP or PVE).
I am pro-PVP. I didn't realize that I was a griefer, but I do like the idea of having things that I can fight for and possibly lose. I love the idea of having some challenges that my SG can face together -- that we could fight for something and win or lose. Competition is fun for a lot of us, if not for everyone.
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Change the bolded part above to PvP-Competition and I think you'd be more on target with what you are trying to say there. There quite fankly a vast number of ways in the PvE game to have competition, TF races and the like come immediately to mind.
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Also, I really enjoy COx and care about the future of the game. It concerns me that the failure to deliver on key promised elements will further erode the player base, especially as new games come out with more aggressive development plans. Remember, we really haven't had any new challenges for heroes in over a year. That takes a toll on our SGs and on the player base as a whole.
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I'd change the bolded area above to no new content for PvE Heros in quite awhile. Not since Croatoa as I recall. Which while it was interesting it did in no way address the content needs of the growing ever larger 40+ crowd.
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I doubt that my experience of having lost dozens of friends to other MMOs is unique, judging from the empty streets I see in PI and Talos.
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Well, from my experience, everyone I started the game with has bailed on it due to the incessant catering of the Devs to PvP issues. They felt it was a big bait-and-switch done by the Devs to suck in a reasonable subscriber base before "balancing" things that would have really never ever mattered in a pure PvE game but do have an impact in a PvP game. In fact. I would hazard a guess that had CoH opened up with PvP it wouldn't have made it to year two due to lack of the publics interest. Further more I will also issue the opinion that had all the resources that had and have and will be devoted to PvP would be far better spent from NCSofts and Cryptics on only the development of new and interesting PvE content. The continued emphasis on PvP is only going to lead to fewer and fewer folks playing IMHO.
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So, wait...we won't be able to raid bases for IoPs now? Talk about a huge let down.
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Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
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It looks pretty clear to me this is the plan, IINM. I think the plan is to get the CoP to work in the first place, and then correct the raid mechanism.
As usual, thanks for the follow-up Posi
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So, wait...we won't be able to raid bases for IoPs now? Talk about a huge let down.
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Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.
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It looks pretty clear to me this is the plan, IINM. I think the plan is to get the CoP to work in the first place, and then correct the raid mechanism.
As usual, thanks for the follow-up Posi
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Reading comprehension FTW! 
Also, notice what Posi said here:
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New Design: 7 day window to get your Item(s) of Power. You then hold it for 21 days, reaping the (now larger) bonus. Then it disappears and you need to re-do the CoP trial to get it.
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(Emphasis mine) I'd love to know how much bigger they've made the IoP's bonus, but at any rate that should address some concerns about the bonus being too low, huh?
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New Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are not susceptible to losing your Item of Power.
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Not susceptible to losing them because raids are not enabled yet?
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Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items).
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Keep in mind. Some of us wish we could have Items of Power *without* opening up our base to raids, much the same way we collect Accolaid powers even though a +5% Endurance boost really doesn't help much.
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Also, 21 days?! What happened to the '3 months' plan you guys had in beta? Keeping an item for 3 weeks is not worth defending in my own opinion.
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There could be several reasons for this:
1. Faster turn around allows people to participate in the trial more frequently, thus more people get to participate in the content.
2. The 7 day window of opportunity allows you to run the trial more frequently, enabling you to acquire more IoPs.
3. The ability to get more IoPs makes the previously proposed 1% buff/IoP more desirable.
4. The 28 day reclaimation timer means that defending SGs can take breaks more frequently to prevent burnout.
5. Releasing the CoP trial before Scheduled Raids are fixed will allow people to determine if its worth the effort, farmable, etc. without being locked into the PvP element.
At this point, I'd be happy if they stabilized Instant Raids so my SG could give them a try. Our attempts so far have been... buggy.