Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
All your examples are Post Teens build; while I was talking about Dominators need to team Pre-SO, yet being somewhat leech-ful then and there.
Also I have a problem with the performance in the late game due to the sheer number of AV mish.
A long fight and they main contribution is (and I quote) "Sub Par Damage" unless DOMINATION is up, and then they are cool for 90secs!!!!
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
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Dominators can get into parties, I'm not denying that--in fact I specifically said they would take them.
Even on Liberty, with your good experiences, are you seeing high demand?
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On Justice, I tend to get a lot of invites, but they are almost all from people who know me and have played with me. I met them in a PUG, but after that its a friend list team.
I dont see any one looking specifically for doms, or stalkers for that matter. I generally havent seen much looking for a specific AT at all in COV until the previous patch with the stupid AV regen boost. That created a big demand for corruptors.
I have also seen some people stating that the respec required X corruptors and y brutes, but I proved that was wrong (my repsecs that failed had those compositions, and the one that made it didnt) to myself.
Last, I generally see people looking for SF members, but again, I think they want bodies more than a specific AT.
Demand is something that depends on the server itself and the people playing on it. For Pinnacle it appears to be that server where people who know each other play together the most, and if you do not know anyone then you are more than likely not getting picked. Almost all of my teaming on the hero and villain sides are from people i am used to playing with.
I don't think someone being offered a spot on a pick up group is something that defines the worth of an AT. Especially since everyone has the power to create their own team. . .when we have people dropping out of teams because a Dom is leading and that person that dropped does not feel that the Dominator is doing something, then we should talk. But for now, it is obvious people who search for players either go with what they know, who they know, and judge based on their prior experience with other PLAYERS.
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I actually think it is going to turn out to be a bad thing that Domination will act like a break free....at least in the fact that it will make you even more inclinded to hold it rather than use it incase you get mezed....
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that's what i've felt for several months about domination. the rare occasions i play my doms i just use domination as a endurance bar filler. because i dont need the dmg or control, or my team never would've lived long enough for me to build domination in the first place
and i thought of a good idea for holds working on bosses/eb's/av's...have each hold application lock out one of the enemy's attacks for its duration. similar to how hami can only fire off one attack now while he's held. and of course the limit would be the real mag resistance to holds. if that isnt broken (purple triangles up) the enemy can still use at least 1 attack (maybe a "summon ambush" call or something?)
I was leading with my MM and signed up a lower level grav dom the other day. Of course it was more out of pity than anything else. 
Seriously, I feel bad for people playing grav doms. At least she didn't seriously screw us up with DS or wormhole or excessive knockback, she was too low for that.
In response to the original poster:
When ever I get asked this question by somebody just starting out in CoV, I tell them pretty much the same thing, unless I don't like them: Don't.
Particularly if you expect to solo a lot. Stay away. Far away. If you've got a good bunch of people? Yeah. Go for it. Expect to rely on others for survival, though, much more than every other AT in the game other than Stalkers.
Further corrupting the pool, of course, is that roughly 90% of the teams I'm on never consider adding a dominator, unless the person picking the team is a dominator. Even in those cases, we usually only have that one. It /could/ be that nobody plays dominators, but if nobody's playing them, are they actually any fun to play?
Thing is, they /can/ be fun to play, but it practially requires a harmonic convergance sort of factors to combine into a perfect storm kind of thing.
All-in-all, even brainiacs like brutes more than dominators. Play a dominator only if you're into sadomasochism.
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In response to the original poster:
When ever I get asked this question by somebody just starting out in CoV, I tell them pretty much the same thing, unless I don't like them: Don't.
Particularly if you expect to solo a lot. Stay away. Far away. If you've got a good bunch of people? Yeah. Go for it. Expect to rely on others for survival, though, much more than every other AT in the game other than Stalkers.
Further corrupting the pool, of course, is that roughly 90% of the teams I'm on never consider adding a dominator, unless the person picking the team is a dominator. Even in those cases, we usually only have that one. It /could/ be that nobody plays dominators, but if nobody's playing them, are they actually any fun to play?
Thing is, they /can/ be fun to play, but it practially requires a harmonic convergance sort of factors to combine into a perfect storm kind of thing.
All-in-all, even brainiacs like brutes more than dominators. Play a dominator only if you're into sadomasochism.
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This seems significantly misleading. First, most teams I am on are PUGs, and they are looking for bodies, more than a specific AT ratio. They might prefer some AT over another, but unless they are doing a SF, they take whoever is looking more than anything.
Second, I and many other players have soloed doms without any real problems, no harmonic convergence required. If you want to run in, and just autofire attack, yes, doms arent for you. However, no IQ test is required.
For me, doms are more fun to play than the other ATs. I dont find them hard to solo either. I have played on the highest difficulty and solo'd fine. More accurately, they have a certain playstyle. If you like it, its fun. If you dont, you wont.
Doms are not super powerhouse PVP builds, but they solo fine, depending on the normal variables (powerset chosen, powers selected as you raise, slotting, tactics, etc).
,,and LOTS of people agreed that Pre-32 Controllers were solo-able prior to containment.
Mind achingly boring and tedious, but solo-able.
Right now my Ice/Fire is 11 and I got killed twice by gold bricks trying to run to my mission site. Kinda frustrating so I logged him and alternated between my Fire/Ice Tank and Fire/Kinetics controller for the rest of last evening.
well, I tried...
Its like taking a driving mower on the expressway, you CAN do, but would I recommend it?
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
If there was a "drama queen of the day" award I know who I would nominate 
But seriously, you are exaggerating in my experience.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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,,and LOTS of people agreed that Pre-32 Controllers were solo-able prior to containment.
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Hmm I must have been doing something wrong because my Ice/Storm Controller couldn't solo worth a lick until 32 when I got Jack andreally didn't become a soloing machine until 33 when I got Jack slotted.
I must have had Gale slotted wrong 
Why do people who haven't played Dominators past low levels feel the need to come on this thread and bad-mouth them? I get the feeling they have 'tallest tree' syndrome. If you're not the tallest tree in the forest cut down the others until you're the tallest left
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,,and LOTS of people agreed that Pre-32 Controllers were solo-able prior to containment.
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Hmm I must have been doing something wrong because my Ice/Storm Controller couldn't solo worth a lick until 32 when I got Jack andreally didn't become a soloing machine until 33 when I got Jack slotted.
I must have had Gale slotted wrong
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Heh, I didn't agree. I just saw posting in the forums. Some of the controllers still want damage rolled back, but I think its a joke. The Devs have clearly shown they don't want a City of Statues.
I just don't understand the whole issue. A) Why they would make the Dominators so dependent on teams early (pre-SO) yet not really that helpful to teams pre-SO...haven't we already seen that with controllers pre containment?
B) Why the Devs didn't 'Smoke Test' the development of Dominators thru all three levels of play (Pre SO/SO/fighting AVs) so they didn't get this whole drama fest 
fixed before it rolled out of Beta smelling so badly
If you don't want to give them more control, you give them more damage.
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
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Why do people who haven't played Dominators past low levels feel the need to come on this thread and bad-mouth them? I get the feeling they have 'tallest tree' syndrome. If you're not the tallest tree in the forest cut down the others until you're the tallest left
[/ QUOTE ] Who's the low-level Dominator you're talking about?
That, and I haven't seen anyone asking for nerfs ("cut down the others") so much as buffs...which I won't use this analogy for since I'd rather not get that substance which would be beneficial to the growth of a tree thrown at my character.
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active)
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Not to sound ungrateful but how exactly will this help the Dominators situation? The entire problem is that because of Domination's temporary godliness we're forced to be toned down to the point of less than medicore so we won't be overpowered.
This tweak, despite being nice, is just an "eye candy" to be put in the patch notes, it doesn't solve the problem at hand at all, it even increases it by making Dominators even more powerful while in Domination mode.
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I just don't understand the whole issue. A) Why they would make the Dominators so dependent on teams early (pre-SO) yet not really that helpful to teams pre-SO...haven't we already seen that with controllers pre containment?
B) Why the Devs didn't 'Smoke Test' the development of Dominators thru all three levels of play (Pre SO/SO/fighting AVs) so they didn't get this whole drama fest fixed before it rolled out of Beta smelling so badly
If you don't want to give them more control, you give them more damage.
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For A, I think that is your own personal experience, and does not reflect most of the people playing dominators.
For B, I do think that the problem is that people do not understand Medium damage and what they expect out of a medium damage AT. When it comes down to it, everyone's problem is with damage. The heart of the issue is not the control, it is not the assault secondary. It is the damage. If this was a high damage AT, we would not have as many complaints coming from people, xcept for their greedy and stupid [censored] saying that they thing they should have control just like a Controller. .
If the Devs do believe in the ease of use of the different ATs, I think they should show that some ATs are more difficult than others to use. But even then, many people are able to gauge what they are to xpect as the level progress.
Most of the drama that comes from this board, comes from morons. . lazy morons who couldn't dominate their way out of a wet paper bag. There are good people who earnestly seek help, and receive it from the good men of this board. But there are others who are obviously never going to learn how to play their toon well, or are never going to get the kinds of changes they want.
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I just don't understand the whole issue. A) Why they would make the Dominators so dependent on teams early (pre-SO) yet not really that helpful to teams pre-SO...haven't we already seen that with controllers pre containment?
B) Why the Devs didn't 'Smoke Test' the development of Dominators thru all three levels of play (Pre SO/SO/fighting AVs) so they didn't get this whole drama fest fixed before it rolled out of Beta smelling so badly
If you don't want to give them more control, you give them more damage.
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For me, I think the "fix" is really simple. You either A) Give Dominators the same amount of Control as Controllers (raise from 80% to 100%) or B) you increase Dominators attack side so that it is equal to that of a Corruptor. IMO if you do either one of those two things it will eliminate a lot of the gripes you have about Dominators.
After that the only other thing that needs to be fixed is the Purple Triangle issue. While I'm opposed to Perm-Held people, I think Dominators should be able to break Purple Triangles and have their hold duration reduced by around 80-90% and the accuracy to hit is reduced by 50%.
I guess we are just going to have to disagree then. I believe if you are going to make an AT and not imitate the mistakes of Controller pre-containment, you must make them fun and easy to solo. Also they benefit to the team should be obvious to make them wanted by teams and you should not be able to fufill they're roll *better* with other ATs than you can with the AT.
I should not be able to out-control a controller with a defender, I should not be able to out tank a Tanker with a Scrapper.
I should not be able to make a Fire Kinetics Controller who control and damages using Power Pool attacks better than my Fire/Energy Dominator. I shoud not be able to do the same with my Ice/Dark Corruptor.
...or an Ice/Energy Blapper for that matter!
I read multiple guides before I made my Dominators, and read the forums, and most warn of the tedium... playing a superhero game should not be tedious, even Pre-SO, especially on V2 of said superheroe game. Especially since they got things right with Brutes and Corruptors. Stalkers are a specialty but still solo well for lotsa good reasons...and they may hit and run (a common practice among Blasters as well) they don't sit around endlessly punching 3 white minions to finally put them to sleep.
I've been on teams and Ive run teams and pre-SO, its easy to notice the Dominators are not pulling they're weight...and since I play them and have read guides on them I know they are not, its not just assumng since I've seen them from the inside out...
and that seems unfair on an AT that needs to team to reach 22
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
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I guess we are just going to have to disagree then. I believe if you are going to make an AT and not imitate the mistakes of Controller pre-containment, you must make them fun and easy to solo. Also they benefit to the team should be obvious to make them wanted by teams and you should not be able to fufill they're roll *better* with other ATs than you can with the AT.
I should not be able to out-control a controller with a defender, I should not be able to out tank a Tanker with a Scrapper.
I should not be able to make a Fire Kinetics Controller who control and damages using Power Pool attacks better than my Fire/Energy Dominator. I shoud not be able to do the same with my Ice/Dark Corruptor.
...or an Ice/Energy Blapper for that matter!
I read multiple guides before I made my Dominators, and read the forums, and most warn of the tedium... playing a superhero game should not be tedious, even Pre-SO, especially on V2 of said superheroe game. Especially since they got things right with Brutes and Corruptors. Stalkers are a specialty but still solo well for lotsa good reasons...and they may hit and run (a common practice among Blasters as well) they don't sit around endlessly punching 3 white minions to finally put them to sleep.
I've been on teams and Ive run teams and pre-SO, its easy to notice the Dominators are not pulling they're weight...and since I play them and have read guides on them I know they are not, its not just assumng since I've seen them from the inside out...
and that seems unfair on an AT that needs to team to reach 22
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I agree.
Some people have accepted that Dominators do not need any fixes...and as long as they can get through the content...it's fine by them. They are satisfied with just completion...and don't really care to excel in certain things as long as it stays fun.
Dominators are a lot of fun...but when bringing in comparisons of other ATs and game mechanics, you have to sometimes say: W.T.F.?
I did a little PvP with my plant/thorn Dom last night in SC before hitting the sack and I was doing pretty well giving Tanks and Blasters some work while kiting and stacking slows and holds and confusing them and getting domination up twice, the best I have had with my Dom considering PvP so far until 20 minutes later two emp Controllers showed up and I was unable to do a thing to any of the heroes while I was teleported and instantly held everytime I got in their sight.
I have said this before, one powerset can render an entire AT, I wish I could say the same about having a /thermal, /poison or /sonic available as often as emps are to render Controllers useless offensively.
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I've been on teams and Ive run teams and pre-SO, its easy to notice that I am not pulling my weight ...and since I play them and have read guides on them I know they are not, its not just assumng since I've seen them from the inside out...
and that seems unfair on an AT that I need to team to reach 22
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There are plenty even people who do not post on the board that have different experience. We have so many that think there is something wrong with an AT because of their own shortcomings. . .and that really is not the case. And as far as pulling their weight or contributing to the team. . .what weight are you people not pulling? What are you people not contributing?
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I have said this before, one powerset can render an entire AT, I wish I could say the same about having a /thermal, /poison or /sonic available as often as emps are to render Controllers useless offensively.
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The funny thing is, the only Clear Mind analogue on villain side (Clarity from the /Sonic Corruptor set) won't render a Controller useless the way it would for a Dominator because - you guessed it - they have a buff/debuff secondary.
Well, by pulling their weight I mean making the team go faster. When my Sonic/Rad corruptor is teamed with an Electric Brute it is a race to get my debuffs/bufff up and kill some mobs before he punches them all out. When My Brute or Tanker is playing he is taking the alpha strike and killing as fast as he can. My blasters and and controllers kill single targets at a fast rate! My defenders and controllers debuff to save the team and then get to killing fast!
My Ice/Dark is an Evil God!
Brute takes the alpha (protected by my Darkest Night) then I Tar Patch/Flrost Breath/Ice Storm and watch the SCOURGE go off...and then use Fearsome Stare!!
But my Teen-age Dominators?
Best case scenario is Ice Patch and Flashfire --and they are rarely up, pre-SO,
so early on the Dominator is slowly killing single whites or blues while someone else takes the alpha and/or debufs and or kills quickly.
Hell, my Mind Fire used to take the first few seconds to line up TK and even then the Brutes would complain about me moving thieir targets away or the Corruptors about me moving the anchor accidentally!
I don't call slowly killing singles pulling my weight!
Then domination would come and I was the hero for 90 seconds, and then once again, a camp follower...
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
My dominator used to duo with a brute who complained about me killing all the mobs so fast he couldn't build fury
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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My dominator used to duo with a brute who complained about me killing all the mobs so fast he couldn't build fury
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I have never seen anything resembling that one. I have seen the occasional complaint (not at me, yet) that too much mez makes it hard to build Fury, since a good portion of Fury comes from incoming attacks...but killing too fast?
Dominators can get into parties, I'm not denying that--in fact I specifically said they would take them.
Even on Liberty, with your good experiences, are you seeing high demand?