Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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My dominator used to duo with a brute who complained about me killing all the mobs so fast he couldn't build fury 
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*Twilight Zone music plays*
Gonna have to echo the questions people have asked above. Were you five levels higher than him or something? Because that is so far from a normal situation that I would say it's not possible unless you're exaggerating or something was really off with that team.
The missions were on ruthless, he was 1 lvl lower than me and yes I did kill most of the mobs before he could do much of anything.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
I dunno...lowest difficulty, level range and powerset that gave the Dominator more decent attacks than the Brute, and the Brute having slow recharge/animation attacks, and the Dominator firing before the Brute could close...it's still a bit of a stretch unless we're neglecting to mention the incoming-attack Fury thing I mentioned, but it's not impossible.
I agree it's Twilight-Zoneish, but not impossible...
I've also duoed with corruptors who during encounters die while I survive to clear the spawn, and hear then say they could never have survived that. On ruthless, same lvl.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
wasn't a team it was a duo. Other specifics already given. No exageration, and he's currently deeply involved with his own dominators.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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Best case scenario is Ice Patch and Flashfire --and they are rarely up, pre-SO,
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Ice patch is up fairly often, with hasten and 3 slots in recharge (possible at level 13?). If you open with it so the brute doesnt take the alpha, by the time the fight is over on a high difficulty setting, its usually recharged.
Take a fire/fire, by level 16 you can be doing hot feet, FE + fire breath, then incinerate and fire blast (and, dang it, flares I guess, till you get blaze). FE can be up pretty often, with hasten and 3 recharge slots (level 17).
I just havent seen the slowness, nor the no team benefit, except for AVs with triangles, which arent around much till later levels. Oh, and in PVP, thanks to BFs.
must be a newb.
In fact with hasten 3 slotted and ice slick 3 slotted with recharge you only have about 10-12 seconds down time.
edit: with so's
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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wasn't a team it was a duo. Other specifics already given. No exageration, and he's currently deeply involved with his own dominators.
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you wanna see something sick? watch a fire/fire or fire/psi dom and a fire/kin corruptor completely destroy missions
I think it depends on which Brute you are talking about... I have yet to see a dark melee Brute out damage me. Sure, they may do a bit more damage when their Fury is up but my ice attacks are why faster than him and when my Domination is up, there is no comparison.
On the other hand, Super Strength Brute with Rage... there is no comparison. ugh
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I've only seen one Ice Dominator (other than my own) and he was in his twenties and Ice Patch is a thing of beauty then!
Every Dom I've seen run Hot Feet would die again and again and again.
..hell, my Fire/Storm contrlller can run Hot Feet and Hurricane and dies again and again and again....
Without a taunting tank, thats ritualistic suicide
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
Part of the reason why respec out HF 
SO, you like other people are looking to do damage. You believe that if you are doing high damage or have a lot of numbers over the heads of your enemies you are pulling your weight. You like others want to "pull your weight" by doing High Damage, while on a Medium Damage AT. You obviously believe that if you are not doing a boatload of damage or defending the team with heals/debuffs then you are not contributing. All of this stuff is fine, but for you, like many other people. . Dominators are not for you.
Big Damage, Big Control, Big AoE, Big Heal, Big Debuff, Big Buff. . .
This is all showing that there is nothing wrong with the AT, This is showing what you and many other people equate with making a difference. Perhaps that Answer to the question "Do dominators suck like people say they do?" - Is actually NO . Except to people who have Bi-Chromatic vision where they only see in two colours. . . Orange and Green. Damage and Heals.
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SO, you like other people are looking to do damage. You believe that if you are doing high damage or have a lot of numbers over the heads of your enemies you are pulling your weight. You like others want to "pull your weight" by doing High Damage, while on a Medium Damage AT. You obviously believe that if you are not doing a boatload of damage or defending the team with heals/debuffs then you are not contributing. All of this stuff is fine, but for you, like many other people. . Dominators are not for you.
Big Damage, Big Control, Big AoE, Big Heal, Big Debuff, Big Buff. . .
This is all showing that there is nothing wrong with the AT, This is showing what you and many other people equate with making a difference. Perhaps that Answer to the question "Do dominators suck like people say they do?" - Is actually NO . Except to people who have Bi-Chromatic vision where they only see in two colours. . . Orange and Green. Damage and Heals.
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You are comparing everything as if it's equal in effectiveness...buff/debuff/heal/damage/etc is not always EQUAL in effectiveness...if ever.
The AT does two things, Control and Damage so....
you could buff damage or you can buff control
No, I honestly think the proper action is to add secondary effects like slows and such to allow the holds to have more effect, but not take them up to the pre-Nerf AoE controls level
but that would probably come after another issue, if at all
its either more control where they might be useful, but is unlikely, or more damage which is easier to code in the short term
otherwise please tell me how you are helping out (pre-SO) and saving the team, or really the Anchor man taking down Infernal
People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.
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SO, you like other people are looking to do damage. You believe that if you are doing high damage or have a lot of numbers over the heads of your enemies you are pulling your weight. You like others want to "pull your weight" by doing High Damage, while on a Medium Damage AT. You obviously believe that if you are not doing a boatload of damage or defending the team with heals/debuffs then you are not contributing. All of this stuff is fine, but for you, like many other people. . Dominators are not for you.
Big Damage, Big Control, Big AoE, Big Heal, Big Debuff, Big Buff. . .
This is all showing that there is nothing wrong with the AT, This is showing what you and many other people equate with making a difference. Perhaps that Answer to the question "Do dominators suck like people say they do?" - Is actually NO . Except to people who have Bi-Chromatic vision where they only see in two colours. . . Orange and Green. Damage and Heals.
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See I like doing Damage that's why I went with Fire/Fire. I also usually pull my weight on teams (except when I'm chatting to the SG - but that's a whole different matter 
) but I do think Dominators need to have more of an impact on teams. I think the solution that will solve most people complaints about Dominators is easy. Either give Dominators Controller Level Hold (this I prefer because Control is our Primary) or increase our Damage so that it's equal to Corruptors. IMO I think we do need a boost in one or the other but not both.
I won't mention the Purple Triangle bit either but I think that is something that most of us can agree on that is a major issue.
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otherwise please tell me how you are helping out (pre-SO) and saving the team, or really the Anchor man taking down Infernal
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Froreon - Ice/Ice Domintator. . .on top of my attacks slowing my first job was to ensure my team had the edge over our opponents. I used AA and Shiver, as well as my Hold and AoE Immob to keep the mobs in Check. My second job was to keep my teammates safe and mesh with any other players that I could using my controls and damage. In order of priority I kept Corrs, MMs, Brutes safe through Control and my attacks like Ice Bolt, Ice Sword and Air Sup. I targetted holds through stalkers for the Critical.
Agallah - Fire/Fire Dominator. My primary job as a fire/fire was keeping my team safe and able to do their job. I used my st immob, st hold and hot feet to do it. I killed melee fighters from the squishy targets by using my immob and ranged attacks, with great supplemental damage and slows with hot feet. I was able to either control or eliminate the threats to my team through my control and damage. Which greatly improved as I got my AoE Disorient and AoE Hold.
Hibiru - Grav/Energy Dominator - I use my assault and control to take out the strongest targets. . ST Hold, ST Immob, Propel. . .Power Push. . .I protect my team using my control and damage in much of the same way but with knockback.
If you want more damage then load your tray up with Reds.
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I guess we are just going to have to disagree then. I believe if you are going to make an AT and not imitate the mistakes of Controller pre-containment, you must make them fun and easy to solo. Also they benefit to the team should be obvious to make them wanted by teams and you should not be able to fufill they're roll *better* with other ATs than you can with the AT.
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actually, it strikes me that what the devs did is to correct the other problem with 'trollers...not make doms overpowered and virtually free of weeknesses (requiring corrective nerfs that just piss of the entire playerbase)...ya know the mistakes 'post-containment'.
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I should not be able to out-control a controller with a defender...
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you should also not beable to out defend a 'fender with a 'troller (oh, wait, you can)
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I should not be able to make a Fire Kinetics Controller who control and damages using Power Pool attacks better than my Fire/Energy Dominator. I shoud not be able to do the same with my Ice/Dark Corruptor.
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um, fire/kin 'trollers out damage frellin blasters with the proper PPP, so dont be using that as a compairson, cuz it shows that 'trollers are busted worse than doms...just in the other direction. as to the ice/dark yeah, you're controllerish but do you do more damage than a dom with that control build? think twice...and still not as badass as a 'troller either!
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...Especially since they got things right with Brutes and Corruptors....
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do you read their boards? cuz i have and based on what their playerbase posts i'd give ya 'ruptors most days...
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I've been on teams and Ive run teams and pre-SO, its easy to notice the Dominators are not pulling they're weight...and since I play them and have read guides on them I know they are not, its not just assumng since I've seen them from the inside out...
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see now, these are your perceptions/opinions, not fact. so they hold 'true' for you, but (as posting has shown) not all people are of that opinion. you cannot demonstrate that the AT is unviable or broken to me, because it doesnt hold true IN MY EXPERIENCE, same as i wont beable to demonstrate that the AT is fine, because it doesnt hold true in YOUR EXPERIENCE. the arguements start because (from my POV) you (and others like you) are screaming for changes to dominators that i not only feel are unnessary, but potentially gamebreaking (funbreaking) for me, and i dont want that. if NOBODY liked dominators then y'all might have a point, but that is DEMONSTRATABLY not the case.
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and that seems unfair on an AT that needs to team to reach 22
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um, i didnt need a team on either of the 2 doms (fire/fire and mind/nrg) i've gotten past 22. was fun to have one tho, and i get reinvited to teams by the same people again and again...not something you'd expect from an AT that brings "nothing to the team" eh?
Your Insanity May Vary...
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I guess we are just going to have to disagree then. I believe if you are going to make an AT and not imitate the mistakes of Controller pre-containment, you must make them fun and easy to solo. Also they benefit to the team should be obvious to make them wanted by teams and you should not be able to fufill they're roll *better* with other ATs than you can with the AT.
I should not be able to out-control a controller with a defender, I should not be able to out tank a Tanker with a Scrapper.
I should not be able to make a Fire Kinetics Controller who control and damages using Power Pool attacks better than my Fire/Energy Dominator. I shoud not be able to do the same with my Ice/Dark Corruptor.
...or an Ice/Energy Blapper for that matter!
I read multiple guides before I made my Dominators, and read the forums, and most warn of the tedium... playing a superhero game should not be tedious, even Pre-SO, especially on V2 of said superheroe game. Especially since they got things right with Brutes and Corruptors. Stalkers are a specialty but still solo well for lotsa good reasons...and they may hit and run (a common practice among Blasters as well) they don't sit around endlessly punching 3 white minions to finally put them to sleep.
I've been on teams and Ive run teams and pre-SO, its easy to notice the Dominators are not pulling they're weight...and since I play them and have read guides on them I know they are not, its not just assumng since I've seen them from the inside out...
and that seems unfair on an AT that needs to team to reach 22
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I agree.
Some people have accepted that Dominators do not need any fixes...and as long as they can get through the content...it's fine by them. They are satisfied with just completion...and don't really care to excel in certain things as long as it stays fun.
Dominators are a lot of fun...but when bringing in comparisons of other ATs and game mechanics, you have to sometimes say: W.T.F.?
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you also need to decide which is a higher priority to you...fun or other AT's (which is MY experience btw...well, i found a blaster i'm grovin on)
Your Insanity May Vary...mabey i should do like everyone else seems to be doin and start a 'campain' to get every other AT changed to be more like the Dominator so I can enjoy them all!!!
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must be a newb.
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which would confirm KombatJesus' assumption that playerskill is more important than AT or build, so the reason people have limited success with the dominator AT is because they have limited skill, same with the 'ruptor from the example, right?
i doubt that KJ is right about needing to be skilled. i'd say that the playstyle most effective for a 'ruptor doesnt come natrually to that player...just like i do to doms...
Your Insanity May Vary...
Good point, Djimmi! By the way, if the devs went solely by what I enjoy playing, they'd get rid of all of those silly buffs that need constant re-application. Ugh, what a drag. Corruptors, controllers, and defenders are the gimp!
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its either more control where they might be useful, but is unlikely, or more damage which is easier to code in the short term
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or take the kid gloves off our powers, or apply them to everyone elses powers...
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otherwise please tell me how you are helping out (pre-SO) and saving the team, or really the Anchor man taking down Infernal
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k. lvl 7 (dont even have all my slots full of TO's at this point). i'm 2shoting whole spawns of +1 minions (3 total) using Ice Sword Circle (only acc TO's) and a followup shot to each minion...and i was using brawl as one of those followup shots. later on, i was teamed with a brute and 2 'ruptors (who actually were buffing me too!!!) and decided to try out that combo/tactic, so i charged in right on the heals of the brute, who promptly noticed, tried to help me, then watched me finish off his leftovers when his power landed on several already demised mobs. 2 or 3 spawns later this brute is complaining because he's the one 'sposed to be tankin for the team (disclaimer...he was kidding, giving me backhanded compliments on how i was playing my dom, aswell as asking advice for the dom he [suddenly] wanted to roll up.) and the 'ruptors just smiled and fed us what we needed (like the good little [censored] 'ruptors are should! i personally join in the chorus of MM"s Brutes and Stalkers who gleefully treat the 'ruptors like personal servents..."where's my buff [censored]?" NOT!!!, i'm just kidding)
so, looks like there are 2 'ruptors and 1 brute that will attest that a (some) dom can/do 'carry their weight' on teams.
Your Insanity May Vary...sorry for waisting your time...not a '8manrelentlesspwndteam' so that experience doesnt count...
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I just don't understand the whole issue. A) Why they would make the Dominators so dependent on teams early (pre-SO) yet not really that helpful to teams pre-SO...haven't we already seen that with controllers pre containment?
B) Why the Devs didn't 'Smoke Test' the development of Dominators thru all three levels of play (Pre SO/SO/fighting AVs) so they didn't get this whole drama fest fixed before it rolled out of Beta smelling so badly
If you don't want to give them more control, you give them more damage.
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For A, I think that is your own personal experience, and does not reflect most of the people playing dominators.
For B, I do think that the problem is that people do not understand Medium damage and what they expect out of a medium damage AT. When it comes down to it, everyone's problem is with damage. The heart of the issue is not the control, it is not the assault secondary. It is the damage. If this was a high damage AT, we would not have as many complaints coming from people, xcept for their greedy and stupid [censored] saying that they thing they should have control just like a Controller. .
If the Devs do believe in the ease of use of the different ATs, I think they should show that some ATs are more difficult than others to use. But even then, many people are able to gauge what they are to xpect as the level progress.
Most of the drama that comes from this board, comes from morons. . lazy morons who couldn't dominate their way out of a wet paper bag. There are good people who earnestly seek help, and receive it from the good men of this board. But there are others who are obviously never going to learn how to play their toon well, or are never going to get the kinds of changes they want.
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Well Jesus i do think i can play my domiator just fine, and have played about 86 or so levels of play on them combined. And i do agree, they need more damage.
Now before you assume that we are all just uneducated on what Medium damage means, has it ever occured to you that its not that we dont know what medium damage means, but that we dont agree that Doms should be a medium damage AT.
After all Master minds are technically medium damage also, and can solo AVs(or could before regen/hp bumps) the damage they inflict cost them almost no end beyond casting and buffing there pets. There pets take agro and even share damage now so MM get around 40-50 percent walking damage resistance. They heal buff, debuff, etc.
Then we look at corruptors, listed as a high damage AT and why? In COH the defender/team buffer AT was relegated to having medium damage because of there self buffing, yet its all rolled into 1 package here. And again they can debuff there enemies ability to inflict damage, there accuracy, heal, and inflict heavey damage from range.
Yet when we come to the Dominators we have a active defense that being control. It cost continous end to use, we have no self buffing to speak of, or atleast its not widely rampant, no healing, we do 2 things, control and inflict damage. And the damage is piss poor at best. Our assualt sets have a mixture of ranged and melee powers, yet were really not even any better at inflicting melee damage then a corruptor is at inflicting ranged.
The problem isnt a lack of understanding of the term medium, its a lack of agreeing its the proper level of damage for the AT. Quite honestly in my experience those not seeing a issue are probly running fire doms. So far its the only class that seems like it has a well balanced approach, almost like its the only class that was tested. But if my fire dom is medium damage, then my grav dom is low. Point being damage is really the difference maker for the set. Fire/fire plays so differently then Grav/energy, and its all the damage that makes it better. I honestly like the control options in Grav better, but i dont need them on my fire dom since the imps round out a well damaging set.
that and most people posting responses are not saying they want full on blaster level damage and domination. They are saying they want the roll of domination toned down and the normal play buffed up. Yet all the devs seem to be doing is trying to fix domination. What is trying to be said is that is not the right approach. It would be like trying to fix blasters by working on defiance. Defiance wont ever help blasters no matter what is done to it, and neither will domination the problems are when running outside of domination, not while in it.
58 pages in a short time and still growing strong.
I think that, in spite of what the "doms are just fine group" say, this alone is evidence that many people agree that doms need some "dev love".
Plus we are seeing many people who have played doms to high levels and played multiple doms who agree that doms need something.
Does that mean doms "suck"? Maybe suck is to strong of a word, but yes it does mean that doms need looking at.
However, grav doms suck by definition (pun ).
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My dominator used to duo with a brute who complained about me killing all the mobs so fast he couldn't build fury
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This duo was done on relentless?