Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
[ QUOTE ]
So by this logic, they also rock like people say they do since they're not talking about the same thing as the folks who proclaim suckitude. In essence, we're surrounded by conflicting opinions of varying degrees. Figures. 
Don't mind me, just moving the thread along...
[/ QUOTE ] Yes, they do, and yes, we are 
[ QUOTE ]
Um, you're making exactly the same mistake here--you're discussing someone else's opinions but not using their definitions of the words involved. Their opinion of what qualifies as "good" in that sentence has exactly the same relevance as their opinion of what qualifies as "sucks", but you're accepting one as valid and dismissing the other?
[/ QUOTE ]
No I was accepting neither as valid, just turning the phrase around to illustrate exactly what you just pointed out.
The question(s) is(are) inherently flawed since the answer can only be based on opinion and not everyone has this same opinion.
But enough already 
Back to your regularly scheduled discussion on the shortcomings of Dominators
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
Some folks have said that doms suck because they can't solo. Yet my doms solo fine. Some say that doms suck because they're bad for teams. Yet my doms get compliments from teammates. Some folks say that doms suck because they're not competitive in PVP. Yet I have fun and do moderately well in PVP (casual PVP, anyway). So in my experience, no, doms don't suck the way people say they do.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I am talking about, there are two answers to this question depending on who you ask And it is all subjective to personal opinion.
edit: I happen to agree with this one.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
The Brutes on my party this morning were bragging how easy RSF mish is.... and they were the first ones that REQUESTED for a Corruptor to heal/buff them. They actually ask the leader (who is a Stalker) to find a Corruptor. The first time we tried the mish on relentless, we got owned by those Wailers. I had a feeling they didn't want me... lol
Then they added two Thug MMs and a Corruptor with Warm. The mish becomes instant easier. The MMs were using tar patch, fearsome stare. I don't think they really miss my holds... and my damage was barely noticeable in comparison to Brute/Stalker's AS. Those Energy Brute can stun too and one of the Brutes is a Dark/Dark with fear aura. God, I so wanted to quit my Dom. I could hold the boss which they could kill in like 10s.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've put your finger right on the problem. Dominators are supposed to be the "controlling" AT in CoV but by the late game control is either unneeded, unachievable or both. Brutes have massive damage and excellent survivability. Add Taunt or a damage aura and most can manage mob control on their own. Add Corrupters with powerful buffs and debuffs to support the Brutes and you're set. Add an MM for insurance and you've added more control, more damage and more debuffs in one package.
Factor in that the late game features a long series of EBs and/or AVs who mostly can't be held (only debuffed).
So why, with all this control, survivability and firepower, would you want to include a high-maintenance squishy with crappy damage that you don't need, crappy low-mag short-duration holds that don't work on any opponent dangerous enough to the Brutes to be bothered holding, and who needs to be healed and babysat constantly to keep alive?
Answer: You don't. 
"He may be arrogant, but he happens to be correct" - Ellis
"The server is full of crazies" - New_Dark_Age
Rainbow Arcana / Diamond D: Legion of Freedom - Virtue
lof.guildportal.com
Well, to answer the last post, I have been on teams where the brute could not handle the alpha. Ice slick, the spawn is no longer attacking, and the brute felt safe to run in and wail away on them.
On my doms (fire/fire and ice/nrg) the damage is pretty decent at the upper end.
I find my ice/nrg dom does well in teams and they like having the slick plus holds. However, is he felt to be a huge difference compared to a ice/dark corruptor? Well, fearstare would often elicit the alpha on the corruptor, so it doesnt work as well, but if the alpha is weak enough for the brute, then fearstare stops the return attacks about the same way.
I tend to get invited to a lot of teams, which are from people I teamed with in the past. This makes me pretty certain that they percieve some decent level of benefit to my presence.
However, in AV conflicts and PVP, I dont feel my dom carries a fair load.
Does this equate to an AT sucking? Not to me, as I can solo and team acceptably with two exceptions (which are rarely in the PVE game until very high levels).
Still, I do wish those two exceptions were fixed.
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to get invited to a lot of teams, which are from people I teamed with in the past. This makes me pretty certain that they percieve some decent level of benefit to my presence.
[/ QUOTE ]
When I first started playing this game, I made an Invul/SS Tanker, like I'm sure a lot of people do. The thing is, at level 26, I still hadn't taken Temporary Invulnerability ("Isn't something that's always on - RPD - better than something that's temporary?" I thought.) and even worse I hadn't taken Unyielding. So I spent most of a mission mezzed, or dead, and really didn't know any better. Eventually I was straightened out, but my point is that for some reason I do not understand to this day I got server-friended by a LOT of people and almost always had an invite waiting for me when I logged on. Maybe they figured because I typed with spelling AND punctuation and had a color-coordinated costume I had to be a girl IRL, who knows.
Long rambling story aside, that's not something you can use to judge how effective you are, really. People will friend and invite for their own reasons often far removed from how well a character actually plays.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Brutes on my party this morning were bragging how easy RSF mish is.... and they were the first ones that REQUESTED for a Corruptor to heal/buff them. They actually ask the leader (who is a Stalker) to find a Corruptor. The first time we tried the mish on relentless, we got owned by those Wailers. I had a feeling they didn't want me... lol
Then they added two Thug MMs and a Corruptor with Warm. The mish becomes instant easier. The MMs were using tar patch, fearsome stare. I don't think they really miss my holds... and my damage was barely noticeable in comparison to Brute/Stalker's AS. Those Energy Brute can stun too and one of the Brutes is a Dark/Dark with fear aura. God, I so wanted to quit my Dom. I could hold the boss which they could kill in like 10s.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've put your finger right on the problem. Dominators are supposed to be the "controlling" AT in CoV but by the late game control is either unneeded, unachievable or both. Brutes have massive damage and excellent survivability. Add Taunt or a damage aura and most can manage mob control on their own. Add Corrupters with powerful buffs and debuffs to support the Brutes and you're set. Add an MM for insurance and you've added more control, more damage and more debuffs in one package.
Factor in that the late game features a long series of EBs and/or AVs who mostly can't be held (only debuffed).
So why, with all this control, survivability and firepower, would you want to include a high-maintenance squishy with crappy damage that you don't need, crappy low-mag short-duration holds that don't work on any opponent dangerous enough to the Brutes to be bothered holding, and who needs to be healed and babysat constantly to keep alive?
Answer: You don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
You pretty much nail the problem.
I find myself more and more useless as I level up. When I first team up with my friend (Necro MM) at lvl 18ish, he didn't have Lich and he has very limited control ability. Then he got Fearsome Stare, Howing Twlight for controls and then he has access to Lich who is another dominator. And he added Ghost which can hold single target sometimes. I was like... do you even need my help?? I mean really. His damage potential is like 2x more than me. When Grave Knights charge in, my Ice Sword looks like Ice Toothpick.
Some of you claimed that some of us have lower level Dominators so we didn't know how well Dominators can do. Ok, so I've been leveling quite hard to get my Dominator to lvl 33 in about 2.5 weeks and my impression has only gone worse....
1.) At lower levels, Dominator is really the only AT that can hold efficiently. I felt GOOD 'cause people notice my strength.
2.) At mid-level, my damage struggles and my solo ability is less and less until Singy came to the picture. I don't like big teams so in a small team, I still feel very efficient and satisfying.
3.) At lvl 33, when most ATs have access to their powerful controls, I feel I am so replaceable. On a small team, my strength is still noticeable but on an 8-ppl team, I feel they won't even miss me if I am gone. agrrrr.
I can't even picture once I turn lvl 40. Do things get better or worse? You tell me. Judging from what other ATs can do, I don't have much hope for Dom to stand out.
Solo ability is not my problem. I can solo just fine but so are the other ATs. You can't tell me a MM, Brute, Stalker or even Corruptor can't solo well. Cor may be tricky but in general, what my Dom can do is so replaceable especially on a big team.
On a big team, I am soooooooooo squishy. It's not even funny. I tried to wormhole for the team (I WANT to show off sometimes you know) and BANG, all the foes hit me. There is a split second of delay before I can teleport them into the hole and everybody targets me. I died in like 1s. (the critters were all Purple to me) Ok, so I did not use Wormhole (another thing is they want to rely on Tar Patch agrrrr).. I use single Hold and some Lift. Well, most critters are already in "fear" or "stunned" by energy brute. And even if they are not "controlled", there is really nothing those Brutes can't tank with a Corruptor on their back. Why do they need me for?? Oh yeah, to keep the Corruptor busy healing me?!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
On a big team, I am soooooooooo squishy. It's not even funny. I tried to wormhole for the team (I WANT to show off sometimes you know) and BANG, all the foes hit me. There is a split second of delay before I can teleport them into the hole and everybody targets me. I died in like 1s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy fix: add range enhmts and wormhole out of line of sight.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, to keep the Corruptor busy healing me?!
[/ QUOTE ]
And how ELSE do you expect those Corruptors to get their shiny badges? (/sarcasm)
I can't speak for everyone, but I love having Dominators on my team at any level. They may be rather Jeckyl and Hyde, but their Jeckyl isn't as shabby as a lot of people make it out to be. Timing is everything, and drawing too much aggro will wipe anyone. And, by the time you reach 8-man teams, barring extremely rough stuff like the RSF, you can usually get by while one member is afk and not truly notice a lack anyway. This has actually kind of always been the case.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On a big team, I am soooooooooo squishy. It's not even funny. I tried to wormhole for the team (I WANT to show off sometimes you know) and BANG, all the foes hit me. There is a split second of delay before I can teleport them into the hole and everybody targets me. I died in like 1s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy fix: add range enhmts and wormhole out of line of sight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, if the dev can see this, please fix it.
Every time I use wormhole, I get attacked. It's so dangerous on a big team. Only the "miss" ones can attack me, which makes sense.
Is there a fix list that I can post besides here?
Wormhole should teleport the foes safely before getting attacked, unless I already aggro the critters first.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
What I meant was it's easy for you to avoid this reaction by adding range enhmts and wormholing out of line of sight. The way it is now once you innitiate a wormhole they agro on you and can get a shot off on you. But if you are not in line of sight they can't hit you. I agree it's silly they get that free shot if they can see you but that's the way it is. Try wormholing standing with a wall or corner between you and the mobs.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
What I meant was it's easy for you to avoid this reaction by adding range enhmts and wormholing out of line of sight. The way it is now once you innitiate a wormhole they agro on you and can get a shot off on you. But if you are not in line of sight they can't hit you. I agree it's silly they get that free shot if they can see you but that's the way it is. Try wormholing standing with a wall or corner between you and the mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Wormhole's not the only power with this issue. Eagle's Claw for martial arts stalkers has the same sort of problem. Occasionally I'll get hit before I damage a mob, even though I was hidden when I started the attack.
Heck, TP foe might as well. I never tried using it from within range/LoS (and I no longer have it on any toon).
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
[ QUOTE ]
What I meant was it's easy for you to avoid this reaction by adding range enhmts and wormholing out of line of sight. The way it is now once you innitiate a wormhole they agro on you and can get a shot off on you. But if you are not in line of sight they can't hit you. I agree it's silly they get that free shot if they can see you but that's the way it is. Try wormholing standing with a wall or corner between you and the mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not a proper fix. The critters shouldn't get a free hit on me because of that split second. They "should" be teleported first. Wormhole is a control power and it should work like hold and lift. Even when I am in line of sight, the critter still can't do anything to me 'cause he/she is held/lifted. What kind of control is that I get hit when I use it? Before I use Wormhole, the critters don't see me... and as soon as wormhole tries to teleport them, I get hit even if they are "gone". That's a bug IMO. When they are not "ready" to shoot, they shouldn't shoot in the first place.
And speaking about this, they should fix how critters respond to alpha. I like how Guild Wars work. The critters don't always go after the FIRST thing that they see. The critters have their own AI. Warrior-type (or Brute-type) critters tend to go after caster-type (Corruptor/Dom) and the long range tends to go after the farthest targets (tend to be casters too). Taunt will try to lure them to attack Brute. The alpha AI we have now is kinda stupid 'cause my job is to control critters BEFORE they attack me/team. But they can free hits ...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I agree, but that is the way it has been as long as I can remember. If you don't want to get shot while wormholeing: break line of sight. And you are right it's not a fix but it's a decent work around.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I meant was it's easy for you to avoid this reaction by adding range enhmts and wormholing out of line of sight. The way it is now once you innitiate a wormhole they agro on you and can get a shot off on you. But if you are not in line of sight they can't hit you. I agree it's silly they get that free shot if they can see you but that's the way it is. Try wormholing standing with a wall or corner between you and the mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Wormhole's not the only power with this issue. Eagle's Claw for martial arts stalkers has the same sort of problem. Occasionally I'll get hit before I damage a mob, even though I was hidden when I started the attack.
Heck, TP foe might as well. I never tried using it from within range/LoS (and I no longer have it on any toon).
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know what I'm going to do with that information, but thanks anyway.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, but that is the way it has been as long as I can remember. If you don't want to get shot while wormholeing: break line of sight.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is just a trick to get by an obvious problem. Now I need to rely on Brute even more on a large team 'cause I can't afford to take all the hits first. Wormhole is my only AoE control.
Hell, even when I don't control, every time there is an ambush, I always get hit first. Why is that?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Brutes on my party this morning were bragging how easy RSF mish is.... and they were the first ones that REQUESTED for a Corruptor to heal/buff them. They actually ask the leader (who is a Stalker) to find a Corruptor. The first time we tried the mish on relentless, we got owned by those Wailers. I had a feeling they didn't want me... lol
Then they added two Thug MMs and a Corruptor with Warm. The mish becomes instant easier. The MMs were using tar patch, fearsome stare. I don't think they really miss my holds... and my damage was barely noticeable in comparison to Brute/Stalker's AS. Those Energy Brute can stun too and one of the Brutes is a Dark/Dark with fear aura. God, I so wanted to quit my Dom. I could hold the boss which they could kill in like 10s.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've put your finger right on the problem. Dominators are supposed to be the "controlling" AT in CoV but by the late game control is either unneeded, unachievable or both. Brutes have massive damage and excellent survivability. Add Taunt or a damage aura and most can manage mob control on their own. Add Corrupters with powerful buffs and debuffs to support the Brutes and you're set. Add an MM for insurance and you've added more control, more damage and more debuffs in one package.
Factor in that the late game features a long series of EBs and/or AVs who mostly can't be held (only debuffed).
So why, with all this control, survivability and firepower, would you want to include a high-maintenance squishy with crappy damage that you don't need, crappy low-mag short-duration holds that don't work on any opponent dangerous enough to the Brutes to be bothered holding, and who needs to be healed and babysat constantly to keep alive?
Answer: You don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
low mag? Do you have any sort of idea what you are talking about? There is no difference between controller and dominator mag. There is difference in some cases differences between other at's hold mags. My AOE hold is up almost every 2 minutes and holds for almost 30 seconds, that must really suck! (and thats without powerboost or domination).
oh and low damage sure, lessee blaze is up almost every 5 seconds and does 180 damge per pop to a white con minion. 250 with fiery embrace, nearly 300 with domination and fiery embrace.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, but that is the way it has been as long as I can remember. If you don't want to get shot while wormholeing: break line of sight.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is just a trick to get by an obvious problem. Now I need to rely on Brute even more on a large team 'cause I can't afford to take all the hits first. Wormhole is my only AoE control.
Hell, even when I don't control, every time there is an ambush, I always get hit first. Why is that?
[/ QUOTE ]
haha, I don't know but I've noticed the same and do everything I can to avoid ambushes obvious hatred of Dominators I'll hide in a corner or position my sing just around the corner so they get repelled coming after me. If you find out why let me know
Back to the wormhole agro thing, I will open with wormhole for full teams all the time using this method.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
I think there is a whole post dedicated to ambushes targeting Dominators...damn...that is the last thing we need.
[ QUOTE ]
Some folks have said that doms suck because they can't solo. Yet my doms solo fine. Some say that doms suck because they're bad for teams. Yet my doms get compliments from teammates. Some folks say that doms suck because they're not competitive in PVP. Yet I have fun and do moderately well in PVP (casual PVP, anyway). So in my experience, no, doms don't suck the way people say they do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do dominators
suck like people say they do?
I think they do not.
Oops, wrong thread. 
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
/em clap
Jib, you should of went with Mind/* my friend.
Gravity has Propel, Dimension Field, and 2 immobilizes which are all garbage powers in my personal opinion.
Now with your sentiments towards wormhole...I would almost go with 5, hehe.
so 5/9 of your primary sucks...wow, i would stop playing that powerset completely.
Mind/* has a quicker animating hold and has levitate (same thing as lift, but does MORE damage).
Everything else in Mind/* is a great power. Mass Hypnosis and Telekinesis are considered to be the most situational for PvE...but they are still pretty damn good.
Mind is 9/9 set. I love it.
[ QUOTE ]
Hell, even when I don't control, every time there is an ambush, I always get hit first. Why is that?
[/ QUOTE ] I would suspect the ambush is simply being smart--what's the CoV AT that doesn't have any form of passive defenses whatsover? The Dominator.
In that aspect, being an offense-based AT with only active defenses, Doms are in Blaster territory...and ask Blasters about ambushes 
[ QUOTE ]
Jib, you should of went with Mind/* my friend.
Gravity has Propel, Dimension Field, and 2 immobilizes which are all garbage powers in my personal opinion.
Now with your sentiments towards wormhole...I would almost go with 5, hehe.
so 5/9 of your primary sucks...wow, i would stop playing that powerset completely.
Mind/* has a quicker animating hold and has levitate (same thing as lift, but does MORE damage).
Everything else in Mind/* is a great power. Mass Hypnosis and Telekinesis are considered to be the most situational for PvE...but they are still pretty damn good.
Mind is 9/9 set. I love it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, when I chose Gravity, I like the rarity. Not because the powerset looks appealing to me. lol
After playing up to lvl 33 at the moment, I feel this set doesn't fit Dominator that well. Singy is a GREAT thing for Controller who tends to stay back all the time. I could utilize that strategy except my damage output with just Ice Bolt and Ice Blast will be... ugh. Ok, so I use Propel sometimes but I just hate it. I can do more within that activation time.
I don't even have AoE Hold. I skipped it to get aid other, aid self and dimension shift. I kinda regret now but I can't do anything about it until I have respec. I don't even have any of the immob powers. They do look useless to me. I don't need crush to stop anyone from running. I have GD for that and if I want damage, I'll use ice sword.
I realize that Levitate does almost twice the damage as Lift and everything else is the same except for activation time. Lift is very quick... I treat it as a soft control. I like it except it does not do a thing on flying critters.
I feel when they design Dominator, they just basically switch whatever is on Controller to Dom without adjusting the little details.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nonsense, I could just as easily pose the question: Are Doms as good as people say they are? Works both ways.
[/ QUOTE ] Um, you're making exactly the same mistake here--you're discussing someone else's opinions but not using their definitions of the words involved. Their opinion of what qualifies as "good" in that sentence has exactly the same relevance as their opinion of what qualifies as "sucks", but you're accepting one as valid and dismissing the other?
I think you're thinking too hard--it means what they think it means if we're talking about their opinions and not correcting their diction, which was the case.
In brief: You do not think they suck, but they do suck like people say they do because, when they say it, they're not talking about the same thing as you are
[/ QUOTE ]
So by this logic, they also rock like people say they do since they're not talking about the same thing as the folks who proclaim suckitude. In essence, we're surrounded by conflicting opinions of varying degrees.
Figures. Don't mind me, just moving the thread along...
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.