Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
Bull. I call "fallacious appeal to authority." I don't care what the top VGs say. Heck, I don't even know what you mean by "top VG" -- are you going by the in-game lists, which measure prestige rather than expertise with dominators? Also, there's the problem that I can't trust you to represent their opinions accurately. IIRC, the first VG to beat the RSF said they'd like dominators on their team, while you were claiming otherwise.
All that matters to me is whether I and my teammates have fun. Why do you care what the top VGs say? Why do you keep going on about AT popularity in general? It's not like it matters for anything.
I heard doms suck, is there any validity to this?
i was just considering the new implications that it's insulting to point out others calling DOOOOOOOM.
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IIRC, the first VG to beat the RSF said they'd like dominators on their team, while you were claiming otherwise.
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Unfortunately, the ideal team for the Recluse is still corrs, Brutes, and MMs. You might want to look up a recent post by a guy who has done the TF numerous times and who reported that a team he was on with 2 doms had to use the cheat (that makes the heroes spawn at a lower level) to even finish the TF, whereas the standard teams he was on of corrs, Brutes and MMs finished the TF with no problem without using the cheat.
Also, just to clarify, the first team to beat the TF did not have a dom on the team. That VG later finished the TF with 1 dom. It's becoming clear that a team of 5 corrs and 2 Brutes can spare one "charity" spot.
How about you actually point out the post so that we can judge whether they struggled because of the doms, the builds, or the players? Or so that we can judge whether the guy is even credible?
And I know the first team didn't have a dom. My point is that they said they wanted one. C'mon, you aren't even trying to put up a reasonable argument anymore.
EDIT: By the way, I do believe the people who say that dominators are dead weight in high-level, competitive PVP. I'm just not that concerned about it, because it doesn't affect my own play at all. It would be nice if the devs did something about our weaknesses, but I'm having fun regardless.
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How about you actually point out the post so that we can judge whether they struggled because of the doms, the builds, or the players? Or so that we can judge whether the guy is even credible?
And I know the first team didn't have a dom. My point is that they said they wanted one. C'mon, you aren't even trying to put up a reasonable argument anymore.
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Bradd, are you arguing that doms are just as good as corrs and Brutes on the TF? If so, you could prove your point by getting together a team with 4 or 5 doms and successfully completing the TF . . .
I disagree whole heartedly about Levitate. It's an important part of my mind/psi attack chain. It's actually the only attack chain I had for the first 28 levels.
Before subdue:
Levitate, dominate, psi-dart, maybe sleep, repeat.
Throw mind probe in for fun and profit.
Even now at 32nd my attack chain is dependent on Levitate, because Mental Blast is such a horrible power.
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i was just considering the new implications that it's insulting to point out others calling DOOOOOOOM.
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DOOOOOOOM
wooo havn't done that in awhile. Thanks! 
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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Nice, 515A. Instead of moving the goalposts again, how about you actually back up your claims with citations and facts?
I dont need any post to know what 15 is saying is true. I play in a pretty standard group of friends almost every night when i team. One girl i play with has a high level MM, and a high level dom. She likes to play the dom, when the team is getting overwhelmed she changes to the MM and suddenly were breaking even again.
Time and time again when on teams with 2-3 doms i see problems. Not with control mind you but with damage, buffing, debuffing, all the things that make the game go round. Frankly even in COH you could easily play and have a controler use absolutely none of his primary set powers, accept maybe pets, and only his secondary buffs and debuffs and a team could still run the AV arcs no problem. What matters is mitagating damage, and increasing your teams damage output and accuracy. Dominators dont contribute to that as of now, why i keep calling for some damage boosts. We should atleast be on par with what a Corruptor can dishout for damage. With no self buffing that to me is fair.
But overall i have experienced it time and time again, when im on dom heavey teams, we do very poorly or have to run closer to the lower difficulty, corruptor/MM heavey support and were running on unyeilding all night. There is a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with people not knowing how to play their ATs. Just as you dont see spamming in St M for a sonic team looking for a dominator do you?
edit: and keep in mind im not saying i dont have fun playing my dominators. I have said several times i loved blasters, i liked my controlers, and i HATE what they did with corruptors. To me that AT is no fun. Doms were the best alternative to edge of your seat AT as blasters were. However in the balance to the usefulness of the other COV ATs on a full team doms really just dont measure up to what the others can do. Yes i have a great time soloing with mine, but i do feel alot that on a team im being carried. True or not its how watching a brute take out a +2 boss in 3-4 hits and never taking damage from him makes me feel when I was told my holding a boss would be to complete of damage mitagation and required my having gimped damage. Yes i know different ATs do different things, but the curve is to extreme where doms fall to the other 4 ATs.
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But overall i have experienced it time and time again, when im on dom heavey teams, we do very poorly or have to run closer to the lower difficulty ....
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And other people have posted different experiences. Are their observations less valid than yours? That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.
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Nice, 515A. Instead of moving the goalposts again, how about you actually back up your claims with citations and facts?
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If you are interested in reading the experiences of people who have actually done the Recluse multiple times, I suggest you enter the term "Recluse" in the search engine and check out the search results. The bug that allowed the 8 heroes to spawn at a lower level has been fixed, and the consensus is that, to do the TF without the bug, the ideal team is 2 Brutes and at least 5 corrs.
Really, the only hope for sub-optimal teams to be able to complete it is if someone finds a way to pull 1 or 2 of the level 54 heroes at a time in the last mission. One person reported that his teams have had success with pulling, but so far I have not seen any reports of anyone emulating their success. There is also supposedly a way to pull using a temporary power, but if that does work, it is probably a bug that will get squashed soon. Unless and until breaking up the 8 heroes is possible, it looks like 2 Brutes and 5-6 corrs (some of the corrs can be replaced by debuffing MMs) is still the gold standard. Doms and Stalkers are relegated to the charity 8th spot, on the teams that even willing to take them.
Those aren't citations and facts. They're paraphrases of opinions. Why do you expect that to convince me? Even setting aside the fact that I don't trust your ability to paraphrase, it's still a lousy source. Try supporting your arguments with facts rather than vague and biased accounts of popular opinion.
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I can't complain about Levitate. It's better damage and better soft control than its /psi analogue, TK Thrust.
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It's air superiority on steroids... with range.
What's not to like?
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Exactly!
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Those aren't citations and facts. They're paraphrases of opinions. Why do you expect that to convince me? Even setting aside the fact that I don't trust your ability to paraphrase, it's still a lousy source. Try supporting your arguments with facts rather than vague and biased accounts of popular opinion.
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean -- I'm not asking you to believe me -- I suggested that you do a search on the forums on "Recluse" and see what people have to say, in their own words, who have actually completed the TF many times.
That would be pointless, since I've read many such posts, and I draw different conclusions. I also know a few stalker & dominator players who've been on successful RSFs. That's why I asked you to actually cite your sources, so that I can see why your impressions differ from mine. Why do you refuse to back up your claims with sources and facts?
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That would be pointless, since I've read many such posts, and I draw different conclusions. I also know a few stalker & dominator players who've been on successful RSFs. That's why I asked you to actually cite your sources, so that I can see why your impressions differ from mine. Why do you refuse to back up your claims with sources and facts?
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Keep in mind that the patch that took away the cheat was just instituted. That means that teams can now spare at most one "charity" slot for a Stalker or dom.
Again, I'll take you more seriously when you start posting facts and sources instead of biased hearsay.
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i was just considering the new implications that it's insulting to point out others calling DOOOOOOOM.
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DOOOOOOOM
wooo havn't done that in awhile. Thanks!
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i'd comment but i've been informed it's rude.
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There is a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with people not knowing how to play their ATs
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yup. it's the artificial limitations implimented by gamemechanics on mezzes. to keep it from being way overpowered...like (de)buffs are currently IMO.
Your Insanity May Vary...
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Again, I'll take you more seriously when you start posting facts and sources instead of biased hearsay.
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dunno if he's actually trying to 'prove' anything. it's already 'proven' in his mind and he's just throwing out 'buzz phrases' that put negative connitations to the topic and we are reacting to it as opposed to redefining it. keeps the initative and allows him to 'control' the debate. pretty standard tactics...for example
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That means that teams can now spare at most one "charity" slot for a Stalker or dom.
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went strait past a 'discussion' about the rsf to the implied concept that doms are 'charity cases', and has REPEATED it in this thread. automaticly now, we have to 'dig out of the hole' that statement put us in...gaining/maintining initative. great at 'making your point', horrible at solving dilemas. good to see people have been paying attention to standard GOP strategies.
Your Insanity May Vary...
I was including that in "biased hearsay." 
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There is a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with people not knowing how to play their ATs
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yup. it's the artificial limitations implimented by gamemechanics on mezzes. to keep it from being way overpowered...like (de)buffs are currently IMO.
Your Insanity May Vary...
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I totally agree. Mez's are too binary? Well, the gamemechanics instituted to deal with only make them more binary. A more imaginative solution needs to be come up with, and many on these boards have done just that, its up to the devs to make some change.
Game Mechanics like Break Frees, Suppression and Purple Triangles were designed with Controllers in mind. Dominator secondaries were made with the control primary in mind, but applying game mechanics that were designed to deal with Controllers punishes Dominators in the extreme.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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Just because the forum clique agrees on something and writes it in there, doesn't mean the other 99% of the playerbase automatically feels that way, or even a majority.
The truth is it's useless trying to argue with this forum's clique, so I don't even read or participate with that thread. What is the point? We will just get responses like yours in this thread.
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I think there is a big difference in perception between the people who belong to the top VGs on the one hand, and the people who play solo/PuGs on the other. Most people in the former group think that doms have some issues that need to be addressed as to their effectiveness on teams *compared to other ATs.* They don't necessary think that doms are gimped, or that doms suck, but they do think that doms bring substantially less to a large team than corrs, MMs or Brutes at any rate. The second group doesn't really see the problem, either because they don't have that much experience with other ATs or because they are not playing on the kind of teams where the differences show up so starkly.
I am fine with people having different perceptions of the AT, but I think it's too bad that the people who support doms sometimes seem to feel so beleaguered that they resort to insults and invective.