Patron Powers: Black Scorpion Mace Mastery
By
Akuma_Mishima,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:51 in Developers' Corner
So can stalkers now start up a petition to get EM melee powers or Cloaking Device nerfed for Blasters ?
cause you know ... we OWN burst damage melee attacks and stealth, so its not fair that any other AT has them.
Perhaps you can make a new scale (like the 'range' scale), um let s call it the SUCK scale, and we can put these blaster attacks on it ... you know cause we are insecure and cant share our toys.
Castle: How about some options here,
1) Remove snipes completely, because everyone is too precious about that, and give us a goog utility power (Focused accuracy, or power boost would be nice), this might make the PPP's at least 80% as good as the APP's. (as an aside, do any of the developers =there really think PPPs are better then APPs?), if that is unacceptable give us the lvl 32 blaster nukes instead, then after the outcry switch it back to the snipes (with melee damage).
2) Change the snipes to be on melee scale, but change the powers so that they are like a long range spines/Impale (then apply your normal formula for end/act/recharge). This means snipes are still apparently the property of blasters, and stalkers will end up with some long range attacks that dont suck in comparison of damage/end/act.
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Stalker snipes are going to need to be toned down a little, methinks. If my math is right, a Stalker's Build-Up + crit snipe won't be as powerful as a Blaster's Aim + Buildup snipe, but it'll be awfully close. Suddenly, Stalker sniper squadrons are a thing to truly be feared; 8 of them could just about wipe a whole team, Tankers included.
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How the hell is this any different from a Blaster sniper squadron.
who as you admit can do slightly more damage, and doesnt have to wait for hide, and can follow up with more high damage attacks,
(unlike stalkers who's DPS drops dramaticaly after 1 attack.)
the only thing stalkers have as an advantage is the higher stealth cap, which is useless in RV, and half-useless in SC
so i dont know why people were complaining, blasters even get Buildup AND aim, while stalkers only get BU, and start on a lower damage scale to begin with
I would gladly take EPPs over this silly snipe. The fact is, the devs philosophy after ED is that they must never make anything overpowered again.
This means that maybe after a year, PPPs might be 80% of EPPs, if trick arrow is any indication of a buff schedule. Hey, don't worry though, they might have brought brutes fury, MM's, and dominators up to par for zones like WB!
too bad nobody will play in WB once RV hits live
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Because the ranged damage modifier is a fixed number across the whole AT - if they increased that then all ranged attacks that use the modifier would be boosted too, not just the lacklustre PPP attacks (i.e. it would make Spines Stalkers ridiculously overpowered).
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Whaddya mean "would make" ..... Like they aren't now?
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I'm curious if Dominators are being considered a melee AT with regards to this - they certainly have a higher melee modifier than ranged (0.75 versus 0.65)
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Unfortunately the word from on high (_Castle_ via PM) is:
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Dominators are not Melee AT's for this purpose, I'm afraid.
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Not sure why he's afraid - I'm not that scary 
Boo!
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FYI: Melee AT Patron Power Pool Ranged attacks which cause damage will be changed to using the Melee damage scale.
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Follow Up:
Stalker Snipe PPPs are back to being Ranged damage. The changes I'd made to keep them balanced got nixed.
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What? 
why?
I must say that this makes me extremely angry as a stalker. We were promised that the PPP's are to be more powerful than hero PPP's. This reverse-balance decision will not achieve that goal. Furthermore this is not condusive to balance in the least. The only solution now is to increase stalker ranged damage modifiers to an acceptable level.
Let me be perfectly honest with you. The snipe is the ONLY power I planned to take from a patron. The whole "permanent choice" thing is what turns me off to the whole idea to begin with. Now that you've posted this, I regret I cannot ever choose a single power for myself. There is one good thing in all of this though, existing power choices aren't so permanent, and would make excellent alternatives.
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FYI: Melee AT Patron Power Pool Ranged attacks which cause damage will be changed to using the Melee damage scale.
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Follow Up:
Stalker Snipe PPPs are back to being Ranged damage. The changes I'd made to keep them balanced got nixed.
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Will the Scrapper/Tanker APP attacks be moved to Melee as well, to match?
THEY ALREADY WERE
pay attention
Read entire thread, they have been at the Melee Modifier since I3 apparently. And if they weren't, since the PPPs are supposed to be better than the APPs, why would you even ask this?
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Read entire thread, they have been at the Melee Modifier since I3 apparently.
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Hm. That doesn't match my experience with them. I'll have to double-check the numbers
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And if they weren't, since the PPPs are supposed to be better than the APPs, why would you even ask this?
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Because "better" doesn't imply "twice as good".
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Read entire thread, they have been at the Melee Modifier since I3 apparently.
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Hm. That doesn't match my experience with them. I'll have to double-check the numbers
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And if they weren't, since the PPPs are supposed to be better than the APPs, why would you even ask this?
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Because "better" doesn't imply "twice as good".
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Because if the Scrapper got moved to the 1.125 it wouldn't be worse. But the point is moot sicne it's already been shown they are at the melee modifier.
the devs did say ours would be "significantly" better, since we can't respec into a different pool, and have very limited options anyway
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FYI: Melee AT Patron Power Pool Ranged attacks which cause damage will be changed to using the Melee damage scale.
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Follow Up:
Stalker Snipe PPPs are back to being Ranged damage. The changes I'd made to keep them balanced got nixed.
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Why not just lower the dmg of snipe and keep it on the melee scale? that way in the description it won't say "high" when it's actualy the same as the med dmg range attack. It's understandable if it's too powerful but the if the dmg description for the power is based on base dmg without having the mod applied, that creates a lot of confusion as to what "med" or "high" really is.
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Definitely agree. I "high" damage attack should be the same as any other "high" damage attack in the AT. It's unnecessarily confusing when there are large differences in what "high" really means (or any other damage rating...moderate, extreme, minor, etc.)
Not being able to respec seems like a minor point to me. It's not like the Hero pools where there's occasionally some variety between them. These were pretty much the same set of pools copied over to each patron and given different graphics/slight tweaks.
Just tested Poisonous Ray for Dominators, and here is the info:
Test Subject: Bone Spider Commando
Color: White
Level: 41
Type: Minion
Player: Gialli
Level: 41
AT: Dominator
Power Sets: Ice/Psi
Power Used: Subdue
Before PR:
Subdue Damage on Screen: 104
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 103.59
After PR
Subdue Damage on Screen: 123
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 123.01
That makes Poisonous Ray about 16.3 debuff to resist, but it still needs to be tested some more.
anyone have the damage number in one place on these powers? looking for brute and stalker
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Just tested Poisonous Ray for Dominators, and here is the info:
Test Subject: Bone Spider Commando
Color: White
Level: 41
Type: Minion
Player: Gialli
Level: 41
AT: Dominator
Power Sets: Ice/Psi
Power Used: Subdue
Before PR:
Subdue Damage on Screen: 104
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 103.59
After PR
Subdue Damage on Screen: 123
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 123.01
That makes Poisonous Ray about 16.3 debuff to resist, but it still needs to be tested some more.
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Isn't debuff def/resis less for dominators for ranged attacks less compared to melee attacks? Probably want to test it with melee attack to get the accurate value.
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FYI: Melee AT Patron Power Pool Ranged attacks which cause damage will be changed to using the Melee damage scale.
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Follow Up:
Stalker Snipe PPPs are back to being Ranged damage. The changes I'd made to keep them balanced got nixed.
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Why not just lower the dmg of snipe and keep it on the melee scale? that way in the description it won't say "high" when it's actualy the same as the med dmg range attack. It's understandable if it's too powerful but the if the dmg description for the power is based on base dmg without having the mod applied, that creates a lot of confusion as to what "med" or "high" really is.
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Definitely agree. I "high" damage attack should be the same as any other "high" damage attack in the AT. It's unnecessarily confusing when there are large differences in what "high" really means (or any other damage rating...moderate, extreme, minor, etc.)
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Judging by what I've seen of the PPPs, the damage description on SNipe isn't the only thing that is "high."
Don't mistake coincidence for fate.
Tyrant Kaiser Necro/Pois ~ 50
Moriyama Emp/Dark ~ 50
Divine Leliel Claws/Invuln ~ 50
Divine Zeruel Dark Melee/SR20DET ~ 50
Lil Mori Fire/Kin ~ 39
Wii: 1567 8323 2516 8943
XBox Live Gamertag: Loki 240SX
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Black Scorpion second story arc:
****SPOILERS**** and a warning
After completing the arc with Dr. Quatrexin and getting The Stinger badge, I was offered another arc - [censored] in the Armor. This arc involves kidnapping Dr. Aeon to make anti-ghost weapons for the Scorpion suit.
The final 2-part mission is bugged. The mission starts with Black Scorpion telling you to talk to an arbiter to set up a fake story and then kill Dr. Aeon. The arbiter doesn't believe the lame cover story and tells you to either stop Scorpion's insane plot or face the wrath of Recluse. The first door mission has you rescuing Dr. Aeon from Silver Mantis - but when I attacked Silver Mantis, Dr. Aeon just disappeared. Since rescuing him was an objective, I couldn't complete the mission. After that was cleared by a GM, I went on to the second - a timed mission to disarm some bombs and defeat Black Scorpion. Black Scorp spawned as an ambush after the last bomb, but defeating him didn't clear the mission - he only had 1 minion instead of 2, so I think one might have gotten lost. Had to get a GM to clear it with very little time to spare.
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SPOILERS AGAIN
I did both missions twice. Once I saw Dr. Aeon vanish I just went back out and reset and it worked the second time around.
As for the Black Scoripion Ambush, I had enough time to reset it and try again but the same thing happened. So 2 times I cleared everything on the map and clicked 5 bombs, defeated Black Scorpoin and his pals with no luck. It kind of erked me that this is an AUTO given TIMED AV mission.
The Strangest part is, the clues still exist in my queue. There was no souvenir. (not even one to tell me I failed). And Black Scorpion now just tells me to come back at 45. That entire second arc was never even available to some people.
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**SPOILERS YET AGAIN!!!**
so after doing this first mission where Dr. Aeon seemingly dissapears, i noticed that he was being hurt by some of Silver Mantis' AoE (trops and spine burst). after he dies, he tps out. to test it a 2nd time, i went in, drug her to the back room there, and fought her there, but died, and she turned right around, targetted the good Dr. and proceeded to kill him. so the first time was an accident so to speak, but her AI obviously lets her target him, which is the real problem. in with a GM atm, but i'm sure i'll have that same problem with the next mission and have to petition it too 
**UPDATE**
just finished the timed mission. found all 5 bombs, the ambush came, he had only 1 minion, but after i killed them both, that was it. mission completed just fine. so it seems at least 1 of the 2 bugs got fixed along the way
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Just tested Poisonous Ray for Dominators, and here is the info:
Test Subject: Bone Spider Commando
Color: White
Level: 41
Type: Minion
Player: Gialli
Level: 41
AT: Dominator
Power Sets: Ice/Psi
Power Used: Subdue
Before PR:
Subdue Damage on Screen: 104
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 103.59
After PR
Subdue Damage on Screen: 123
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 123.01
That makes Poisonous Ray about 16.3 debuff to resist, but it still needs to be tested some more.
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Isn't debuff def/resis less for dominators for ranged attacks less compared to melee attacks? Probably want to test it with melee attack to get the accurate value.
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Would not make a difference. The game doesn't differentiate between "melee" and "ranged" damage, only for Defense typing. A Resist Debuff will make a target take exactly that much more damage, no matter how much resist they have (Excepting when they're above the resist cap, but thats rare and special cases).
It is most likely a 16.5% Resist Debuff (The game does some wierd rounding). Why do I say this? Take a look at the Power Standardization guide. (PS: The Dominator Res Debuff Scalar is 0.075, Defender value for the curious is 0.100) 16.3% = 0.163 / 0.075 = 2.17333 This isn't a clean number. But, a 2.2 scalar value IS a clean number and likely one that the devs use. So, 2.2 * 0.075 = 0.165 = 16.5%
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
Actually the game does differentiate between melee and ranged damage. Some classes do higher melee damage some do higher ranged damage. Meaning, if you gave the same power to a brute or corruptor, a ranged attack, the corruptor will do more damage with it because its a ranged attack, give that same brute and same corruptor a melee attack and the brute will do more, because they specialize in melee. Dominators actually fall into the melee category, which is why their melee attacks do far more damage than their best ranged.
I cannot remember where it was said now, but a red name did say they were switching a few of the PPP ranged damage powers over to the melee damge pools for the brutes and doms and other melee damage classes. I think that was the point?
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I cannot remember where it was said now, but a red name did say they were switching a few of the PPP ranged damage powers over to the melee damge pools for the brutes and doms and other melee damage classes. I think that was the point?
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Your search-fu is weak! :P
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Follow Up:
Stalker Snipe PPPs are back to being Ranged damage. The changes I'd made to keep them balanced got nixed.
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Don't worry, the patron powers are actually stronger than APPs to account for our inability to respec out of them
The Heroes are casting aside thier FOCUSED ACCURACY, PERSONAL FORCE FIELD, FORCE OF NATURE, in shame!
Baghdad Bob
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Baghdad Bob: "We are not afraid of the Hero's. Recluse has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid" (dramatic pause) "and they are condemned."
Baghdad Bob: "There are no Hero infidels in Warburg. Never!"
Baghdad Bob: "Yes, the Paragon troops have advanced further. This will only make it easier for us to defeat them"