I'm a little disappointed.
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-04-25 09:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
States, is there anything being planned for those who would rather remain independant?
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f I were to wax philosophical for a moment I wonder whether its the genre (super heroes), the medium (City of Heroes) or the nature of the internet which has led to a greater demand for individuality.
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I think it's a bit of all that and also, in part, how well Cryptic has provided character flexibility thus far without it being cumbersome to the end user. The Patron feature is a great idea and hopefully it will be brought over to CoH sometime - to exist alongside APPs. 
It's kinda similar in my mind to the 'sidekick' feature which was great, but felt like half the equation until exemplaring was implemented. I think PPPs and APPs have that relationship as well: PPPs for game narrative post-40 character development, and APPs for those who prefer player narrative or just power-flipping.
Cheers.
So, do you actually "pledge loyalty" to the patrons in game, plot-wise? Or did you write it in a way that Player Characters can see it as lip-service?
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Unfortunately, new powers are incredibly art intensive. Instead of making new sets, we choose pre-existing powers and renamed them as Ancillary Power Pools.
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Please do more of this. Some might criticize a lack of new animations, or the fact that is is a shortcut. But I recently saw a home-edited demo file that mixed and matched animations and effects from different power pools. It looked great! I imagine that a few new combinations could be put together and appease a great number of people with some "new" power sets, especially in the tanker and scrapper ranks.
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Many have complained that this hinders creativity and roleplaying. After all, not everyone wants to be a villain that works for Arachnos.
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States, I coulndt agree with you more. However. I dont want to work for his cronies either. But I would like to work for the mooks, hellions, crey, council, etc etc.
And same goes for heroes. Maybe become a member of the Hero Corps or Longbow?
After going up in the ranks you get a special power with that based faction and even an extra Costume slot with their costume? Get special missions where you have to gi into their base and help defend it?
States, do you see anything like this going forward in the future?
p.s. I just got s friend into the game and he loves it! All we do is talk about its flexible customization. States, you and your team have created a wonderful game! Keep up the great work!
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You know, for *once* I completely love a piece of design by the devs, and what happens?
Everyone else hates it. 
I like the Patron Powers, I like the reddish electricity, it's cool all around, imho. Sadly, hardly anyone seems to agree.
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I agree..
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I like the Patron Powers, I like the reddish electricity, it's cool all around, imho. Sadly, hardly anyone seems to agree.
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Same here.
I forget when Patrons were first mentioned. I know it was quite a while back, but when I heard about the chance to take up Makoor Ghost Widow (which, admittedly, disappointed me when I found that I'd have to take at least one dark blast power) as a Patron, I was as excited as could be. Then I noticed that a lot of people disliked the idea and I felt a bit stranded. Ah well. At least I'll be happy. =D
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if I were to wax philosophical for a moment I wonder whether its the genre (super heroes), the medium (City of Heroes) or the nature of the internet which has led to a greater demand for individuality.
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I would definitely lean towards the first two, rather than the last. Whenever I talk to friends about this game, whether they play it our not, they always have these great individual concepts for heroes. Non-players have amazing concepts from their own imagination....players have these great concepts inspired by the games options/design. And everyone I know uses the net, to varying degrees....but some don't have a creative bone in their body.
It would be an interesting study, I have to agree with that.
What I'm curious about, Statesman, is, with this topic in mind: What other ways is the desire for individuality driving your current design philosophy? You obviously talk about it a bit in your paragraph, but mostly you focus on your previous design ideas. What about now? Are individuality promoting systems taking a higher priority, say with power customization moving up the list of additions? Or, is it a last "check" on any new system?
I'm always intrigued to hear more about the long-term design/goals for this game....it provides more proof as to why this game outclasses so many others.
I just want my damn pirate masterminds
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I like the Patron Powers, I like the reddish electricity, it's cool all around, imho. Sadly, hardly anyone seems to agree.
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Same here.
I forget when Patrons were first mentioned. I know it was quite a while back, but when I heard about the chance to take up Makoor Ghost Widow (which, admittedly, disappointed me when I found that I'd have to take at least one dark blast power) as a Patron, I was as excited as could be. Then I noticed that a lot of people disliked the idea and I felt a bit stranded. Ah well. At least I'll be happy. =D
[/ QUOTE ]You won't be alone there.... I kinda like the concept. The unrespecable part bother me a little but other than that, I'm okay with it.
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
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And, unfortunately, Chum Spray has been renamed to Bile Spray. Our powers guys felt that Chum was just too campy.
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I shall now call this power...
The spray formerly known as Chum
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All Archetypes chafed under their limitations Tankers had no range, Blasters no defense, etc
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So what happened to this idea?
My Fire/Fire dominator has pets, has AoE damage, has an endurance drain - A large chunk of his patron power choices mimic powers already available in his primary and secondary sets. They lack excitement since they don't feel like new abilities.
Shouldn't he chaff? *smiles*
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So, do you actually "pledge loyalty" to the patrons in game, plot-wise? Or did you write it in a way that Player Characters can see it as lip-service?
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Actually, no matter what they wrote in the game script, you could take it as lip-service anyway. That's where the whole patron power thing fits in. You could be just using them to get what you want and whatever you say to them is a lie.
f'rinstance:
If you play a male villain, you could choose Ghost Widow, because after all, she's just a woman. No woman would be able to outwit you and therefore it would be easier to convince her into thinking you're working for her.
Or if you play a female Villain, you could choose Scirocco because your wiley ways will have him wrapped around your fingers. While doing his bidding, he'll never see that you're actually working on your own plans and just using him to further your carreer.
It's all in how you see it and how you choose to play. Just because something written on your screen states you're now someone's follower, doesn't mean you have to take that as the truth. My main character is going to switch over to the heroes as soon as possible.. he's been doing everything asked by his contacts so that he'll have more information to help the heroes out when he finally turns.
I, personally, think the Patron Power pools are awesome and the idea is great. I think they fit the CoV concept and world MUCH better than AP powers would.
You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame
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Many have complained that this hinders creativity and roleplaying. After all, not everyone wants to be a villain that works for Arachnos. Certainly, a large strength of the City franchise has always been its customizability. To a degree, the Patron powers somewhat inhibit this by compelling people into working for certain Arachnos agents. The powers also do not dovetail perfectly into current power sets.
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It was never a problem for ME, but I think I see what other people are griping about: you've spoiled everyone with all this freedom! CoH and CoV up until now have offered such broad customization and freedom of character concept, that it's kind of jarring when a frankly standard level of MMO concept restriction is suddenly introduced.
Also, the fact that darkness powers and red Mu lightning don't mesh too well with every single character concept is a legit complaint no matter what. Even if you're okay with the idea of being gifted powers from a patron, ghost sharks just aren't going to work with every character. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with my Stalker.
Also, tell your powers guys that we liked it better as Chum Spray! Some Blasters are still calling their level 49 power Foce of Nature; you can change the power name, but we're still gonna call it Chum Spray whether you like it or not. 
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So, do you actually "pledge loyalty" to the patrons in game, plot-wise? Or did you write it in a way that Player Characters can see it as lip-service?
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This would probably fix a lot of complaints people have about the whole affair. If the patron relationship is explained in a way that you can possibly consider it little more than a business arrangement, with payment in the form of powers instead of money, it would make some people a lot happier.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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You know, for *once* I completely love a piece of design by the devs, and what happens?
Everyone else hates it.
I like the Patron Powers, I like the reddish electricity, it's cool all around, imho. Sadly, hardly anyone seems to agree.
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You know honestly it doesn't bother me either, especially the red electricity (it looks much better than the purple in CoH IMHO). I love the idea behind patron pools too, it really fits the theme of the rogue isles. Now that said, I don't like that I won't ever get a chance to see how all the different sets look on my own. I'll have to roll a whole bunch of 40's to see 'em all which takes quite a while. However I do like that once I pick a different patron power pool with a new character I'll get new mssns and won't be as bored in the 41-50 content as can happen in CoH.
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f I were to wax philosophical for a moment I wonder whether its the genre (super heroes), the medium (City of Heroes) or the nature of the internet which has led to a greater demand for individuality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a bit of all that and also, in part, how well Cryptic has provided character flexibility thus far without it being cumbersome to the end user. The Patron feature is a great idea and hopefully it will be brought over to CoH sometime - to exist alongside APPs.
It's kinda similar in my mind to the 'sidekick' feature which was great, but felt like half the equation until exemplaring was implemented. I think PPPs and APPs have that relationship as well: PPPs for game narrative post-40 character development, and APPs for those who prefer player narrative or just power-flipping.
Cheers.
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I really like that idea and it would be great if it's eventually implemented.
More story integration in CoH, more options in CoV. More choice all around.
Not going to happen Soon but it would nice if it was the long term goal.
Really, if you're so concerned about your villain's character being "tainted" by Patron Pools, you're just too uncreative to deal with it.
Not all of the Ancillary Pools fit my heroes. But you know what? I thought of ways that they could. Everyone complaining here isn't limited by the gamethey're limiting themselves.
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I did like chum. Recalled the great 7-Up commercial with a taste test...
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I like Chum better. Nothing wrong with campiness here and there, otherwise James Bond would have been a failed series.
A few of my thoughts,
IMHO the whole Patron thing is a great idea. Would love to see this implemented in Coh. After all isn't being a part of something bigger than oneself; for the greater good; what many heroes are about. I know conceptually this would have meshed well with many of my heroes.
And there in lies the problem at the same time.
It always struck me that tutoring, asking for help, and accepting help when offered to be noble traits. Not those of most villians. But then it occurred to me that this doesn't have to be the be all of end alls.
So I have hope for the future where we just might be given the option to do the classic villian underling move and betray our teacher/ mentor/ patron. 
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Really, if you're so concerned about your villain's character being "tainted" by Patron Pools, you're just too uncreative to deal with it.
Not all of the Ancillary Pools fit my heroes. But you know what? I thought of ways that they could. Everyone complaining here isn't limited by the gamethey're limiting themselves.
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QFT.
BTW, your avatar R0x0R5! Rorschach !
simple request about the name change, states:
Bile != Stomach Acid
change its description to match, please.
I was laughing out loud when I first read the descriptions of the PPPs because of how everything is going to work out for me.
My stalker is a natural claws/regen. His claws are equipment and he trained his body to heal faster. So when I unlocked his aura, I couldn't find anything that matched. Then I thought about the story behind the CoV aura mission (it's magic) and gave him an electric aura for his arms to represent the new power gained. The funny part is I made the aura red to match his non-VG colors. So now his aura will match the red elec powers perfectly and since he's being given the powers, it'll work.
Of course, this makes his origin weird since he's natural but his aura and patron powers will be magic.
Well even though the current electric powers are reddish, perhaps we will be able to alter them when we get the previously mentioned power customization features?
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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No Chum Spray? What the heck? Of course it's campy - that's its strongest selling point. This game is based upon superheroes, the poster children of camp culture. All signs pointed to a community embrace of Chum Spray...and so it's neutered. Camp is fun. Cool is boring, especially a game designer's notion of it.
Viva la Chum Spray
- Yeah, I know this isn't exactly constructive, but, well....Chum Spray!
SparrowhawkHummingbirdDungeon MasterCapricornHour WomanQueen NefariaJunkyard GirlDoll FaceStitchbladeRed MinstrelMimic
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If I were to wax philosophical for a moment I wonder whether its the genre (super heroes), the medium (City of Heroes) or the nature of the internet which has led to a greater demand for individuality.
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You made a wonderful game that set the standard for customization of MMO characters.
We hunger for more.