I'm a little disappointed.
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-04-25 09:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Oh geez, Posi and them already said they will look into it. The reason they couldnt do it differently right away was because of the fact they never put tech into CoH/CoV that allows you to completely breakoff a contact and lose any souviners/story arc progress.
No, it's not that they couldn't do it differently. They just didn't do it differently. They chose to develop villain APPs in a manner that required a burned-bridge implementation. They were so convinced that everyone would love the Patron Powers so much that we wouldn't mind that you can't change factions or that you have to kneel to Arachnos in the first place to have APPs or that the powers themselves are lacklustre and have little to no synergies with existing villain sets. I'll bet it didn't even occur to them that anyone might have an objection.
"Do you know what your sin is, doctor? It's pride." -- The Operative, Serenity
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Oh geez, Posi and them already said they will look into it. The reason they couldnt do it differently right away was because of the fact they never put tech into CoH/CoV that allows you to completely breakoff a contact and lose any souviners/story arc progress.
No, it's not that they couldn't do it differently. They just didn't do it differently. They chose to develop villain APPs in a manner that required a burned-bridge implementation. They were so convinced that everyone would love the Patron Powers so much that we wouldn't mind that you can't change factions or that you have to kneel to Arachnos in the first place to have APPs or that the powers themselves are lacklustre and have little to no synergies with existing villain sets. I'll bet it didn't even occur to them that anyone might have an objection.
"Do you know what your sin is, doctor? It's pride." -- The Operative, Serenity
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Yes I would love to have seen the meeting where they thought we would love "Chum Spray".
Guys I got a great idea for one of Mako's Powers! Ok wait for it you will love this. CHUM SPRAY! That's right oh they will love it, it just just fits with Mako and everyone will think its the best dang power out there. It will be right up there with freaking laser on sharks heads!
Really Mako is a joke anyway with his power sets, I can see Pirates and maybe the Penguin Army on Virtue taking his set. Why have a water based PPP when we have no water based ATs.
I agree. I love the game still, even if I'm taking a little break at the moment BUT I'm a big stickler for being able to customize my character and not be tied into certain story lines. Some characters I want to tie myself into those lines but others I want to be way outside of the box so to speak. The patron powers and red electricity both got under my skin a bit too. Many would laugh at that bothering someone but I'm glad there are others who share my annoyance.
I look forward to power customization and a PPP that is generic like the newer generic starter contact they added a patch or two ago.
My Corner of DeviantART
The Queen's Menagerie
I think what Sam was saying is that CoV is forcing you to be a different kind of "evil" then he'd like. The costume creator gives you "evil" costume options that are made to look sinister, dark, etc. The red electricity is read because red is the standard color of evil. The Patron Pools are there so you can serve Arachnos. Yuo can't be your own villain. You're not allowed to. You're forced into a cookie cutter Arachnos drone model. I agree with Sam, which is why I'm not looking forward to Patron Pools. Yeah, they look amazing. I'm not doubting that. But for story reasons, which is a huge part of this game to me, CoV just dosn't have the same hold as CoH. I have a grand total of two characters for CoV, neither above 14. I play 4 in CoH. CoH allows me to do what I want to do, and no one is stopping me. I don't have Arachnos following me around, commanding my every move. It's a freedom that CoV just dosn't have.
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It was mentioned that _Castle_ stated they were reconsidering the PPPs. Is there a link to that?
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the closest reference that I could find was from the Teaser Q&A
from Positrons reply
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Any talk of changing the permanent part of Patrons or something?
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It's really not as simple as "let's let them respec it!"
Since Patron sets are tied to Contacts you receive, you get the set of the Contact you choose. We'd need to add a bunch of technology to take away access to Contacts (something we don't do currently), to make sure you couldn't end up with multiple Patron Pools.
We have talked about it though, and are not through talking about it either.
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"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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The direction of CoV is baffling to me on a certain level. I tend to over-analyze, of course, but to me, it seems Cryptic has decided to revert to arcade-stype, FPS gameplay in order to appeal to a younger audience. I dare not use the 'adolescent' word for fear of unwanted consequences.
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It's really how you worded all of it. Also, Arcade-style and FPS games aren't the only ones to require such destruction. RPGs and a few strategy games require the same destruction within a small timeframe. It's just more common in the ones you mentioned.
Ah well. To stray slightly more on-topic...
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It was mentioned that _Castle_ stated they were reconsidering the PPPs. Is there a link to that?
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Urgh. If that's so... what about those of us who like certain existing pools? >/ Wretched people.
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I don't have Arachnos following me around, commanding my every move. It's a freedom that CoV just dosn't have.
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Maybe I just have a different view on Arachnos than you do, but it doesn't seem to me that Arachnos is commanding my every move. To me it seems more like a loose confederation of warlords than a really tight pyramidal structure, y'know? Arachnos seems like a completely fractured structure where branch #1 not only doesn't know what branch #2 is doing but also mounts actual assaults on branch #3. A person can move about inside that framework doing more or less whatever they want. Not to mention that a large number of the contacts aren't Arachnos at all.
It also seems to me that there's a pretty significant difference between taking a Patron and licking boots. People seem to be taking it as some kind of insult that a major figure in the organization would recognize them and grant them extra powers and they also seem to be taking it that means they'll be waxing the Patron's car every Saturday afternoon and picking up his coffee at Starbucks every weekday morning. You could just as easily take it that the Patron is afraid of what your character is becoming and is sucking up to you with gifts...
This complaint would be all fine and good. If it had been posted a week after I7 was released to test.
I'm sorry Samuel, I tend to agree with a lot of what you post. But lately you've been bashing I7 (the PPPs in particular) based on nothing but hearsay.
My advice: Wait. Give it a try. Even if it's just half an hour to talk to one of the PPP contacts. THEN come here and post how much your artistic expression is being repressed.
Maybe there are redeeming qualities. Maybe there aren't. I doubt you're more precognitive than me, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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You could just as easily take it that the Patron is afraid of what your character is becoming and is sucking up to you with gifts...
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From Wikipedia:
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Generally, patronage is the act of supporting or favoring some person, group, or institution. A patronage system has different characteristics depending on the area in which it is practiced. Generally it can be described as a system where someone in a powerful position (the Patron) offers handouts in return for support.
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Maybe they just picked a bad name for the pools, but it comes off to me like I get powers in exchange for doing stuff for the patrons. If they're afraid of me, why am I doing stuff for them?? It seems to me like it will take a serious pair of blinders to RP this into the PC having the dominant position. Maybe not though.
This could all be incredibly easily solved by offering pools similar to the mastery pools to non-aligned villains. Or even just make patron pools exclusive from mastery pools. Take the patron, do the content, but if you want, you can stick with the mastery pools at the expense of patron powers. Or you can respec back into your patron's powers and out of your mastery pool later.
"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
EDIT: These are villains. They don't have to be telling you the truth all the time.
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My advice: Wait. Give it a try. Even if it's just half an hour to talk to one of the PPP contacts. THEN come here and post how much your artistic expression is being repressed.
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For the people who don't like the PPPs, there is really nothing to try.
My Stone/Stone Brute (that's based on STONE) does not want to spray anyone with chum.
My Plant/Thorns Dom (that's based on PLANTS) does not want red lightning or a big frickin' mace.
It's really that simple.
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"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
EDIT: These are villains. They don't have to be telling you the truth all the time.
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Wait, wait, wait. Villains???
Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?
Where's the option to change alliances and go over to other patrons?
Where's the option to sneak in and steal the powers under cover of night?
Oh right. We are villains who follow the rules! Grrrr! Scary!
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This complaint would be all fine and good. If it had been posted a week after I7 was released to test.
I'm sorry Samuel, I tend to agree with a lot of what you post. But lately you've been bashing I7 (the PPPs in particular) based on nothing but hearsay.
My advice: Wait. Give it a try. Even if it's just half an hour to talk to one of the PPP contacts. THEN come here and post how much your artistic expression is being repressed.
Maybe there are redeeming qualities. Maybe there aren't. I doubt you're more precognitive than me, so we'll just have to wait and see.
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We've seen the graphics, we know there aren't alternative APPs, we know we can't respec out of the pools.
What's to test aside from the hard numbers of the powers like BI, recharge, endurance cost, etc.?
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?
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How do you know you don't get the chance to?
P.S. - The Dictionary is a much better source than Wikipedia as it cannot be altered by just any nobody on the internet.
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What's to test aside from the hard numbers of the powers like BI, recharge, endurance cost, etc.?
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Purportedly, we won't need to test those either since they'll be given to us in game.
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Wait, wait, wait. Villains???
Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?
Where's the option to sneak in and steal the powers under cover of night?
Oh right. We are villains who follow the rules! Grrrr! Scary!
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Where's my option to borrow or steal temporary powers when I think I need them in CoH instead of waiting on the occasional largesse of a contact? Where's my option to take Portal Corps portals where I think I need to be instead of where some contact heard some other guy tell his shoeshine boy that there was a strange signal? Where's my option to take sidekicks into Hazard or Trial Zones where there are people waiting to be rescued and to hell with the gate guards?
There's a certain level of "deal with it" necessitated in either system.
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Where's the option to change alliances and go over to other patrons?
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They said they're working on it.
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Maybe I just have a different view on Arachnos than you do, but it doesn't seem to me that Arachnos is commanding my every move. To me it seems more like a loose confederation of warlords than a really tight pyramidal structure, y'know? Arachnos seems like a completely fractured structure where branch #1 not only doesn't know what branch #2 is doing but also mounts actual assaults on branch #3. A person can move about inside that framework doing more or less whatever they want. Not to mention that a large number of the contacts aren't Arachnos at all.
It also seems to me that there's a pretty significant difference between taking a Patron and licking boots. People seem to be taking it as some kind of insult that a major figure in the organization would recognize them and grant them extra powers and they also seem to be taking it that means they'll be waxing the Patron's car every Saturday afternoon and picking up his coffee at Starbucks every weekday morning. You could just as easily take it that the Patron is afraid of what your character is becoming and is sucking up to you with gifts...
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Except in the interview with Matt Miller he said, and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't find the bloody link to the article...
We always liked the idea of characters gaining access to powers by swearing allegiance to a patron.
This doesn't sound like the story arcs are going to give you any wiggle room when it comes to saying you are pretending to join with them, but don't really mean it.
Most of the pools given are magical in origin, and if you don't think that these patrons won't have ways of enforcing those who they have embued with their power, then they are dumber lackeys of Recluse than I thought. Ever heard of demonic pacts? These patron powers certainly sound like they could be something similar, and given that one of the Dev's themselves said in an interview that you get these powers by swearing allegiance to one of the patrons, it sure does sound a lot like boot licking to me. What a patron give, no doubt a patron can also take away, and if someone did take the power and run, then I'm sure the patron would just strip the offending villain of the powers they bestowed.
Of course there is nothing in game to reflect any of this, except for whatever is written into the story arc, so for now this is all speculation. However, if the story arcs play out the way I suspect they will, it will end up with your character bound to a patron in some way, and no matter what your character says, mine will just laugh and tell you to go take your psych meds because you're obviously delusional. 
It's funny that most of the discussion in this thread has nothing to do with the OP. 
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Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?
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How do you know you don't get the chance to?
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I think it's pretty clear that obtaining these powers will be more in depth than a single AV fight.
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P.S. - The Dictionary is a much better source than Wikipedia as it cannot be altered by just any nobody on the internet.
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And with the entire internet doublechecking the work, I'll take wikipedia over a select group of dictionographers.
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For the people who don't like the PPPs, there is really nothing to try.
My Stone/Stone Brute (that's based on STONE) does not want to spray anyone with chum.
My Plant/Thorns Dom (that's based on PLANTS) does not want red lightning or a big frickin' mace.
It's really that simple.
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Perhaps you will have a happier life if you wait with the hate 'till you have something better than press releases to base it on. Like, say, five minutes of experience.
It's really that simple.
I promise, I'll be right up there on the baricade with you if I try it out and find that I hate it. I'm just not psychic, so I'll have to wait for I7 before I can form an opinion based on anything concrete.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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Accuracy of Wikipedia
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I see your quote and raise you - Nature mag cooked Wikipedia study
Pinnacle - Atlantean L33 Eng/Eng Blaster, Aeonian L25 Rad/Dar Defender, Darksaw L38 Kat/Da Scrapper, Purple Dynamite L25 Inv/Eng Tanker
Freedom - Volcanic Force L50 Fire/FF Controller, Violent Force L30 Fire/Psi Dominator, Tabubua L24 Claw/Regen Stalker
Victory - Calistus L26 SS/EA Brute
We have all kinds of concrete information. I'm not sure how people don't grasp this. We know the power names, we know their themes and graphics, we know we don't have alternatives, and we know we can't respec out of them. This has all been confirmed by Dev posts, interviews or Feature Update articles.
Are we really going to have to pull out the "I don't have to get kicked in the groin to know I won't like it?" comments again?
Damn, I did. I think I owe LaserJudas royalities now.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Where's my option to borrow or steal temporary powers when I think I need them in CoH instead of waiting on the occasional largesse of a contact? Where's my option to take Portal Corps portals where I think I need to be instead of where some contact heard some other guy tell his shoeshine boy that there was a strange signal? Where's my option to take sidekicks into Hazard or Trial Zones where there are people waiting to be rescued and to hell with the gate guards?
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Damn good question. If I was in charge contacts would only be one of many ways to obtain a mission.
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There's a certain level of "deal with it" necessitated in either system.
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True, but heroes are supposed to try to work within the system. There seems to be a decent amount of backstory in PC relating to heroes' position within the legal system. It's not an entirely radical idea to expect them to work within the rules.
But villains? No, the villains that make good characters are the ones that don't lick the boots of a superior. There's no room for those kind of villains on the rogue isles, only the kind that can follow the rules and do what their told!
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Where's the option to change alliances and go over to other patrons?
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They said they're working on it.
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Honestly, I can't imagine how any of this got off the drawing board without that feature.
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the way that CoV handles the storyline has always left me feeling a little patronized.
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Two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff.....
Ba-dum, CHH!
Honestly, the PPPs lack in the two areas that I normally associated CoX with; thematic freedom and functional diversity. The choice of one of four patrons, each of which will give me the exact same powers with just different looks based upon a narrow band of themes is not much of a choice.
It was mentioned that _Castle_ stated they were reconsidering the PPPs. Is there a link to that?