Theory On Favoritism Whatchamacallit
By
aqshy2004,
Posted on: 2006-04-24 18:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Actually most of us in Scrapper-land think Scrappers own.
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That is so true - we do think we own.
One interesting thing about the dominator & difficulty slider comments above - difficulties 1, 3, and 5 (once you are slotted for it anyway) are all easier than either 2 or 4. Level isn't as much of a threat to a dom as numbers. But then a dominator doesn't exactly have the ownage reputation of a scrapper.
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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Any hope for MoG or Fire Armor in I7?
You know I'll never give up. Please just crush my dreams now. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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So like, is this a good example of how limited CoH is?
InnerSpike
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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So then, how does Spectral Wounds work? Because it seems like what's being suggested is just all damage vs the character with Instant Healing working like Spectral Wounds damage.
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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So then, how does Spectral Wounds work? Because it seems like what's being suggested is just all damage vs the character with Instant Healing working like Spectral Wounds damage.
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Spectral Wounds works like this. When an Illusionist hits a mob with SW they are actually hitting them with two effects:
Psi damage
Heal on a delayed timer
An Instant Healing that recovered X percentage of an attack would be different. There the server would track what damage affects a Regen with IH and then proc a heal after say 2 seconds of whatever percentage of the attack you got hit with.
That's much more complicated than how SW works. SW is just you healing the mobs after damaging them. The RP explanation is that the mob is recovering from the illusion.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I think Spectral wounds is coded something like this:
Damage (Psy) -X + DoT 1 Tick/10 Seconds (Psi) 0.2*X
The problem with the Instant Healing suggestion is that it would require some way for a toggle to attach an effect to an attack generated by a hostile. I suspect that is the piece of tech that's "hard to do".
I'm also a little curious, if you slot Golgi's in Spectral Wounds, does it increase the amount of damage healed back? Are Heal enhancements merely damage enhancements that only work on "positive" damage where damage enhancements only work on "negative" damage?
AFAIK, there's no power in the game that changes the basic nature of another attack (adding/subtracting secondary components). All you can do is modify the parameters (+100% damage, -25% lethal damage, etc...).
Otherwise we might have cool powers that some Defender click power that attaches a 50% disorient effect to every attack another player makes for 10 seconds, or a "fire fists" like power that adds a fire DoT to every attack or something.
BTW devs, this would be really cool if you ever get around to implementing some way to do it. 
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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This is actually untrue. Simply feed the hamsters more.
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Otherwise we might have cool powers that some Defender click power that attaches a 50% disorient effect to every attack another player makes for 10 seconds, or a "fire fists" like power that adds a fire DoT to every attack or something.
BTW devs, this would be really cool if you ever get around to implementing some way to do it.
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That would be burly. I like 
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I find it telling that in the aftermath following I6, the Regen players of my acquaintance have seemingly congealed into two populations: the players who still manage to remain wholly survivable and use the set skillfully and purposefully, and those who eat floor at every possible opportunity.
Suffice it to say -- I find it to be evidence that the powerset was previously allowing any Joe Schmoe with a copycat build mini-Godhood status.
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That was Issue 5. Issue 6 and ED did almost nothing to Regen. One of the more annoying things about ED is that people ascribe the benefits of Issue 5 (which was a painful, but well targeted general nerf) to it because the issues ran back to back.
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When Issue 5 changed Instant Healing from a toggle to a click, we were told by the devs that by six slotting recharge and perma hasten you could have IH up just under half the time. Just like when MoG's recharge was lengthened, we were told by the devs that six slotting recharge plus perma hasten could make the period between uses tolerable.
I6 was "you six slotted with the same enhancement? Mua ha ha ha ha"
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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This is actually untrue. Simply feed the hamsters more.
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You hear that, Castle?
Boy, you just got SERVED!
Look what MightyScourge did there. Responding to your post, saying it's all lies, and then offering up no kind of evidence or even really speculation to back the accusation.
Obviously you've been had, Castle. There's no way you can fight back against an ironclad response like that. MightyScourge has found your hidden weakness: that you have no actual knowledge of the system you spend every day working with.
Boy, Castle got DISSED.
Keep feeding those hamsters, Castle, lest Scourge has to call yo' mama out for being so fat.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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So then, how does Spectral Wounds work? Because it seems like what's being suggested is just all damage vs the character with Instant Healing working like Spectral Wounds damage.
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Each attack from Spectral Wounds damages the target, then after a set period, heals the target. Thus, it's all handled by the attacking power. Regen, however, is a defense set, and would need to track all incoming attacks in order for this to work as described.
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This is actually untrue. Simply feed the hamsters more.
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You hear that, Castle?
Boy, you just got SERVED!
Look what MightyScourge did there. Responding to your post, saying it's all lies, and then offering up no kind of evidence or even really speculation to back the accusation.
Obviously you've been had, Castle. There's no way you can fight back against an ironclad response like that. MightyScourge has found your hidden weakness: that you have no actual knowledge of the system you spend every day working with.
Boy, Castle got DISSED.
Keep feeding those hamsters, Castle, lest Scourge has to call yo' mama out for being so fat.
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Jesus Christ, you're unstable. It ever cross your mind that maybe Scourge was joking and he doesn't really believe that they have hamster working on the game?
So where exactly is this thread at, in terms of subject?
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Jesus Christ, you're unstable. It ever cross your mind that maybe Scourge was joking and he doesn't really believe that they have hamster working on the game?
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from 'Letter of Resignation' thread, 04/12/06:
"I'm no angel, but the irony has always been that Taser became a little hair-triggered because of the coarse level of discourse in the forum, which he would routinely lash out at, lowering the level of discourse further, shortening his trigger further, wash-rinse-repeat until anyone without a pom-pom was a target and he completed the transformation into a funhouse mirror version of himself. It's amusing to see that the cycle will likely begin again. When are college finals? Right around when I7 is likely to go Live? Hm.
*writing note to self to get more popcorn at the end of the month*"
Taser's stated before that he thinks forumbase are children. Children like to see others act out and be crass. Who won favorite poster again?
The Wheel turns anon
Turning, showing some motion
Only in a circle
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage. Unfortunately, doing a rework this fundamental to a powerset seems to be more than what the devs are willing to do, since it would entail rebalancing the other powers in the set as well.
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That wouldn't balance the sets exactly, because there is an inherent deficit to taking damage as opposed to avoiding it.
I have lots of ways to balance regeneration with Defense and Resistance. So far, all of them suffer from one of four problems:
1. The suggestion makes regeneration work *too much* like either Defense or Resistance. We don't need a resistance clone that just has a regeneration sticker on it.
2. The suggestion uses such complex math that I could never convince the devs to implement it, and I'd be arguing its merits on the forums until Kingdom Come.
3. The suggestion runs afoul of what I understand to be certain critical limitations in how the game engine works. When I suggested replacing tohit buffs with accuracy buffs for bosses and +5s, say, I knew that that ability didn't exist, but I also knew all the components to make it work did exist, and therefore the modifications necessary were not out of the question. Some ideas (like creating an attack heal-back queue to implement the "instant healback" idea) require inventing mechanisms completely out of whole cloth, and probably not easy to construct ones in a real time game.
4. It actually works, and its actually implementable even with the current game engine, and its provably balanced. And 99% of all regen scrappers would probably want to kill me for even voicing it.
If I had a way to do it that avoided these four things, I would never stop talking about it.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.
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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.
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I think it would be a great idea to look into the posiblity of that tech being added. It would be a huge balance benefit for all healing in the game to work like this. Right now all forms of healing are way more powerful than needed, they seem to be working under the same ideals of the original Def numbers (extremely high so they were not useless against higher level enemies and trivializing normal play content).
A percentage of wound heals would be an amazing thing to have instead of the current implementation of healing, and i think its something worthy of being analized and implemented even if it takes long time to do.
Ladies and gentleman, Clintonian has started his Sullen Cowboy Sour Grapes and Jealousy grand tour a little early this year.
Watch as he plays all his hits, including "Personal Attacks on Taser because he Personally Attacks Others" and "Not Without My High Horse."
Of course, we're ignoring the big picture here: that Castle got SERVED! Oh my god, when MightyScourge said the answer to everything was just to keep feeding those hamsters? Man, Castle, there's egg on your face! Bet you never thought of that, eh, Castle?
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Such a silly boy you are.
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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage. Unfortunately, doing a rework this fundamental to a powerset seems to be more than what the devs are willing to do, since it would entail rebalancing the other powers in the set as well.
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That wouldn't balance the sets exactly, because there is an inherent deficit to taking damage as opposed to avoiding it.
I have lots of ways to balance regeneration with Defense and Resistance. So far, all of them suffer from one of four problems:
1. The suggestion makes regeneration work *too much* like either Defense or Resistance. We don't need a resistance clone that just has a regeneration sticker on it.
2. The suggestion uses such complex math that I could never convince the devs to implement it, and I'd be arguing its merits on the forums until Kingdom Come.
3. The suggestion runs afoul of what I understand to be certain critical limitations in how the game engine works. When I suggested replacing tohit buffs with accuracy buffs for bosses and +5s, say, I knew that that ability didn't exist, but I also knew all the components to make it work did exist, and therefore the modifications necessary were not out of the question. Some ideas (like creating an attack heal-back queue to implement the "instant healback" idea) require inventing mechanisms completely out of whole cloth, and probably not easy to construct ones in a real time game.
4. It actually works, and its actually implementable even with the current game engine, and its provably balanced. And 99% of all regen scrappers would probably want to kill me for even voicing it.
If I had a way to do it that avoided these four things, I would never stop talking about it.
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You think too much.
How many times do I have to tell you.
Give SR and Invul a reconstruction like self-heal; get drunk; profit.
You never explain why that won't fix the problem better than any super smarty pants complicated nonsense you would come up with. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Every AT thinks it is getting short shrift. 3/5 have to be wrong about that.
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I think the above means the Kheldians are right.
So Clint, if, as you said, "Taser thinks all the forumbase are children" and, as you said, "Children love to watch people act out and be crass," and I was voted favorite forum poster...
There's no way I can read that sentence that doesn't make it sound like you are insulting the forum, not me. So, as you put it, I was only voted favorite poster because the forumbase are children that love to watch someone act up and be crass? And even then, you had to stretch something I said (that "some" forum posters act like children) to try to attack me.
It's like you have an elitist shovel you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper wtih.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Where are these awards people keep talking about?
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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On PAR?
No. Just no!
Additionally, you do know that click buffs are getting expiration warnings (blinking or something) in I7?
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I read that somewhere on the forums too, but I will believe it when I see it. They better give us like a 15 second warning or it wont be worth it.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!