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my defender and my scrapper were repeatedly AS'd in Warburg despite employing crack bunny tecqnique.
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Maybe you suck.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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my defender and my scrapper were repeatedly AS'd in Warburg despite employing crack bunny tecqnique.
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Maybe you suck.
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I got a lot of practice hitting jumpers on Justice. EVERYONE hops around like a rabid monkey.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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If it is an all out brawl with many heroes and villains, the Stalker is not going to attract the attention of the entire hero group.
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You'd be surprised... We seem to be PC aggro magnets.
One other NB Stalker and I were engaged in a little bit of a duel(both of us AS'd the same controller and turned to attack each other). After the first couple of swings, 2 groups, one hero, one villain, stopped attacking each other and came after us.
We weren't even in that mass of players, but they turned and chased after us.
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You're aggro magnets because you pose the largest threat in a pitched battle, at least as the game currently stands -- what with their being 3 Stalkers for every other Villain AT.
On my Scrapper, for instance, when I'm in the middle of a team PvP fight, I mostly go after squishies and Stalkers. If I actually stop and try to engage one of the Brutes that's chasing me (or if I happen to engage a squishy who isn't going down quickly), I get ASed.
Even if I can see the Stalkers in question (Tactics), it's nearly impossible to stop the AS under those circumstances, because I don't have the powers I need up (mostly build up) in the middle of a pitched battle.
Now, to this you might say, "You should joust more; don't stop and engage!" And as a general rule, that might be the correct thing to say. But when you're in a team-versus-team battle, jousting ain't gonna kill anyone. They're going to get healed while you're running around like a jackass. All the more reason to stick to targets that can be dropped reasonably quickly.
It's actually pretty funny. I had two brutes chasing me around for a good 15 minutes the other day. I always knew I deserved my own personal entourage. 
So yeah, long story short, you're darn right Stalkers are PC aggro magnets. You should regard it as a point of pride. 
Oh, and to no one in particular: Stalkers do more damage than Tankers, period. Energy Melee Tankers may indeed do more damage than Ninja Blade or MA Stalkers, but that's a commentary on EM's offensive punch, not the Archetype's. EM Stalkers actually do far better damage than Scrappers in the short-term, so please don't whine about your lack of toe-to-toe damage potential if you're EM. Please.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I've been on these forums since CoH beta and dude, we all have our bad days, but you are the single biggest jerk I've seen butt their way into a serious discussion about how powers work in this game. Stalkers are controversial to many, but we could actually be making progress towards a good evaluation of tactics for avoiding AS and thwarting Stalkers if you didn't constantly distract from the thread with your false-absolutes, half-cooked theories about how others play and personal insults to anyone and everyone who disagrees with your completely subjective assertions.
You've criticized other people's arguments with mis-used terms randomly pulled from your debate 101 textbook, and then make personal insults in the same replies - as if the two tactics are not a self-defeating contradiction within the framework of a discussion. Good Riddance to your nonsense posts.
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You're aggro magnets because you pose the largest threat in a pitched battle, at least as the game currently stands -- what with their being 3 Stalkers for every other Villain AT.
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The largest threat, is a controller. They can debuff you, buff their teammates, heal them... and turn you into a defenseless punching bag.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
Very true. Actually, the emp IS the easiest target... but for some reason it's not uncommon to see everyone trying to hit the buffed and healed blaster.
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The largest threat, is a controller. They can debuff you, buff their teammates, heal them... and turn you into a defenseless punching bag.
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1. Controllers aren't Villains.
2. Controllers can't effectively one-shot me when I'm -- you guessed it -- engaged with the Controller.
The bottom line is that the villains were using their non-Stalkers as bait for the Stalkers. That the other villains were a huge threat too is almost immaterial. What I do/did, then, was engage squishies, and when I saw a Stalker, I'd break off and go after them -- taking care not to stay in one place for more than 4-5 seconds.
In other words, the Stalkers in this particular example made it almost impossible to kill anyone else. One literally *had* to go after them first. Once the Stalkers were dead or fled, the rest fell pretty quickly.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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1. Controllers aren't Villains.
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ok...So?
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2. Controllers can't effectively one-shot me when I'm -- you guessed it -- engaged with the Controller.
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They don't have to one shot you. They've got the ability to neuter you so that they can take their time with you. A Stalker can't take its time with anyone. The danger for a stalker staying out in the open grows exponentially with each passing moment.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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ok...So?
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Reread the sentence of mine that you quoted. I specifically mentioned Villains.
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They don't have to one shot you. They've got the ability to neuter you so that they can take their time with you. A Stalker can't take its time with anyone. The danger for a stalker staying out in the open grows exponentially with each passing moment.
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Yeah, and who said the Stalkers were out in the open?
I'm fully aware of the dangers that Controllers pose. I'm also fully aware of the dangers that Corrupters pose (which is, as it happens, more relevent in this case). I think you're looking at this from a more one-on-one perspective, though. In the team situation I'm referring to, I had my own squishies to keep their squishies off my back.
My job was to make sure that the three opportunistic Stalkers didn't have an easy job picking off anyone in my team who was engaged with another Villain, and that includes myself. It was also -- I guess because the Brutes were stupid in this one scenario -- to occupy the trail of brutes who kept jumping after me ineffectually.
Seriously, are you arguing with me just for the sake of argument? Is there some sort of rule that you must contradict everything I say? Are you seriously trying to make the point that Stalkers AREN'T dangerous? That people SHOULDN'T attempt to go after them when they've actually, however briefly, exposed themselves? Are you honestly not aware that Stalkers, particularly multiple Stalkers, can hang on the fringes of a pitched battle and coordinate Assassins Strikes for instant kills, even when they are partially visible?
Oh, I get it. You're just trying to preserve that strategy for yourself.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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On Triumph, it is the blappers that outnumber everything else... I'd guess 3 to 1 easily.
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Nah... not in SC anyways... still stalkers.
Blappers arent even close... there's more tanks than blasters.
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Maybe you suck.
[/ QUOTE ] lmao...getting one shot is about skill isn't it? What was that about troll or rather ogre posting?
If I suck...then you suck worse as I repeatedly stomped your same level stalker with my /regen....didn't half to use anything but Recon.
Oh, and just curious how many lvl 15 toons you've actually taken into BB and fought? Or do you only exemp down with your HO'd blaster? Your TA/A do much PvPing? Yeah...that's what I thought.
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I've been on these forums since CoH beta and dude, we all have our bad days, but you are the single biggest jerk I've seen butt their way into a serious discussion about how powers work in this game.
[/ QUOTE ] Coming from somone who actually subscribes to the absurd arguments put forth by stalkers, I'll take this as a compliment.
Let me clue you into a little truth. Players in every MMO hate the inviso-gank toons. Rogue/Thieves/Assassin's are universally hated by others who have to deal with them. But Cryptic has gone ahead and added this AT despite this. Why? $$$$$$$$$
There is an army of 14 year-old's who get their rocks off by what amounts to as psuedo-griefing. The idea of killing someone who can't fight back appeals to certain percentage of the population. You know...when I see MM's in Siren's, I won't even attack them. It's hardly fair. If they are my bounty, I'll warn them first...unless they are FF in which case a warning means you'll have to spend 1/2 trying to brawl off PFF. Do you see stalkers refrain from AS'ing the same defenders repeatedly....no. Some people like cheap kills. Is it unique to stalkers? No. But it is the AT that most enables them...that's right AT..not set.
Players, lots of players, have come on these boards since CoV Launch and pointed out this situation isn't enjoyable. Do stalkers acknowlege any position but their own? No. Instead, they repeatedly make dismissive suggestions to the rest of the player community..."Get some skillz...PvP isn't for everyone...Get a team...PvP is not about 1v1." Yet...if the tables were turned...they'd whine like nobody's business.
Some of the more intelligent anti-stalker posters who actually have integrity, acknowledge that you can't completely destroy stalkers in PvP. Some of us recognize that solving the PvP problem must not hurt Stalkers in PvE. Some of us would even concede that if worse came to worse...Stalkers should remain as they are a as Cryptic is better off if it means more people will play on the whole...even if PvP is underutilized.
But you'ld have to have integrity to acknowledge that. You'd have to have integrity to acknowledge the other side of the equation and be willing to look for an equitable solution.
Please...show me that integrity in the stalker forums.
It is the The Harsh Reality of PVP
I don't get upset anymore. I just send in bugs to the developers
For example: Today I am with my Ice/Rad Controller jumping back and forth over a wall (to keep from being AS'd) trying to engage in a hot spot in Siren's Call. I guess some Stalker had me on follow because even though I am erratic in my movement, the activation rooting time of Glacier got me AS'd (1-shot kill). I send in a bug everytime one of my powers gets me killed because of rooting
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Since AS is practically a melee snipe, shouldn't it follow the rules for snipe attacks and have it's range and line of sight checked twice? Once when the attack is initiated and once when it is resolved. Not like now, when people can start up AS and kill someone 100 feet away because the target moved.
If not, can someone tell me how to interrupt a stalker running Elude or similar powers? It's impossible to hit them even if I can see them perfectly fine.
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This has been brought up a couple times internally. The problem with making AS check Range twice is that it would be virtually impossible to land in PvP. It would also make it unique in that all other melee powers only check range once, so even if your target is running, you will still land the attack, no matter how far away they get.
It DOES check line of sight twice, so if you constantly take routes which break LOS frequently, you can stop Assassin attacks.
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Something that might be interesting to try would be to have a relaxed range check at the end. For instance, 5 feet at the start and 15 feet at the end. Essentially the design would be that if you are moving at travel power speeds you can't be ASed, but if you are moving at sprint speeds you can be. I don't know how that would work out in practice but it might be worth some internal testing.
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Hell I'd like to see this for all melee powers..
1st check at [power range],
2nd check at [power range x 4].
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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Hell I'd like to see this for all melee powers..
1st check at [power range],
2nd check at [power range x 4].
[/ QUOTE ] I'd agree to that too. I honestly think the devs should error on the side of making it harder to defeat others. I'd have absolultely no problem with all melee attacks checking range. The only downside is server load.
Here is the Stalker problem in a nutshell, as expressed by a poster in a neighboring thread.
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In response to the OP....
At first, I thought fighting stalkers was challenging.
After a while, they just became annoying.
Now, I hate them.
Nerf the hell out of em'.
For example, this moring in Sirens I was getting into a bunch of 1v1's and 2v1's against non-stalkers. With a squishy...that's pretty fun. Never fails...just when I'm about to rock the house....or they've got me beat....a stalker that can't be seen jumps in. AS....dead. That's as lame as lame can be.
IMO, hide and stealth should not stack. That's what placate and smoke bombs n' stuff are for. AS is too strong when hidden. If placated...I've got no problem being 1-shotted. At least I know it's coming. But from hidden, it's just stupid.
Just my 2 cent. Fire away...
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The fact that Castle state's that checking AS's range twice has been discussed internally is proof-positive that at least some on the development team see the problem. The fact that they are even having internal discussions means that there is a problem. Take heart Buffy.
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So... why not use stealth with hide and TP in from above?
You can TP from way more than 75 yards...
And Stealth with Hide gets you to your stealth cap...
Also... Aim isnt a good defense for stealth...
it's a 10 seconds glimpse.
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Your data is way off. First, Hide+Stealth does _not_ take you to the Stealth cap, it takes you to -890 PER, the cap in SC for Stalkers is -1007. CM stacks with itself with a per bonus of +390 for each instance. (note I actually made a mistake in my intial math by not including Base Perception.)
Hide+Stealth = -890 Per
x2 CM = +780
Base Per = 500
The Blappers will have a total +PER of 1280. The Stalker will have a -PER of 890. That means that the Stalker will be visible to the Blappers from 390 feet away (130 yards).
Aim actually provides no +PER benefit, instead its benefit is to be able to cut through your defenses.
So in other words, you will be seen from far outside of TP range.
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CM only stacks perception if it is given by different casters.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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fail to see you in your 4 second animation
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We anyone playing a stalker knows it's not 4 seconds.... but more like 2-3 seconds
and
anyone player a stalker knows if you get hit after about half the animation it still conencts..
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Yup and I tested this out. Was with a SG Mate[well our evil side mate] Was wading in the water so I know he was coming. We set the area up so I could not target a Mob while I whamming my brawl attack. He started the animation to AS me and I saw him clear as day as I was continuously mashing the button. I Gut punched him will brawl yet the AS still landed. We were both in shock. AS hass finshed all it's [hit/interupt] checks before the stalker drops hide.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
As some of your posts have me standing on a bridge between this argument can someone answer this question, "How does a fire/rad controller get assasin striked through hotfeet and choking cloud? Do they activate between the ticks, or are they a defensive based set so the effect never actually hits them. I would guess they activate between ticks, because I thought hotfeet was auto-hit. If they do activiate between ticks is this hard to do for a stalker and would it be harder if i staggered when i turn on the toggles so each tick is happening at different times. (if you are a stalker and you dont want to give up your tricks I understand)
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic
Hotfeet is autohit, but choking cloud isn't. Choking cloud afaik has really low accuracy, so it's fairly ineffectual at stopping a stalker.
And as I understand it the slow in hot feet eventually gets suppressed. When that happens it won't interrupt AS anymore. So just standing in hotfeet isn't 100% protection. Moving around while in hotfeet will protect you a lot more, since even if you do something that roots you it shouldn't be enough time (from the videos I've seen) for the suppression to kick in.
I would like to see some evidence of that, since it goes against all of the experience and testing that I have done. Also, CM and Clarity's +PER do stack, or at least Clarity's does, which is all I have access to test with. I had been told that CM==Clarity, but its possible that isn't accurate. Is that statement based on testing?
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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It is the The Harsh Reality of PVP
I don't get upset anymore. I just send in bugs to the developers
For example: Today I am with my Ice/Rad Controller jumping back and forth over a wall (to keep from being AS'd) trying to engage in a hot spot in Siren's Call. I guess some Stalker had me on follow because even though I am erratic in my movement, the activation rooting time of Glacier got me AS'd (1-shot kill). I send in a bug everytime one of my powers gets me killed because of rooting
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yeah because the villains aren't supposed to kill anything! that's unfair!
i wish my ninja blade stalker had any attacks to use in siren's call that were worth getting the 90% blaster dmg
ok i guess i have soaring dragon i got at 26, but that's the only good attack in SC other than AS 
you saw him because he activated AS but before it landed? god i hate that bug
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in the middle of about 15 hero NPC's including a Boss (with spines spewing out in all directions every second or so) and several leuts. I died in 1-shot, the Villain managed to get away. That is a bug, and I bugged it.
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I needed a good laugh. Thank you.
But seriously. Walking into a group of NPCs who aren't shooting at you, hidden is very, very little risk. Even AoEs like flamethrowers and quills are close to ignorable while hidden. That is no bug, that is design.
I emphasize NPC's because there are few that can see through hide. I would never say the same about PCs, ever.