[ QUOTE ]
Honestly I spend very little time on the ground. I use, as do most of us, SJ for our primary travel power. Bounce off ledges, change directions in mid-air, basically act like a demented flea all of this makes it basically impossible for a Stalker to "guess" where we will be.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am respeccing all my toons for PVP with CJ, SJ and Acrobatics (except Scrappers don't need Acro). But, moving erratically can sometimes cause pain in my wrists and/or fingers. So, I am trying to find powers that let me stand still and play. No, I am not handicapped, just much older than the average MMO player 
[ QUOTE ]
this says that stealth cap at 30 is 1003.0 and the perception cap is 1013.0...
So even in your example... the range would be 1013.0-890=123... well within 2 slotted TP... no? (no not an expert so I could be wrong) 
[/ QUOTE ]
I helped, in a very minor way, collect some of that data and its what my calculations are all based off of. The issue isn't where the caps are, but what you as a Stalker can achieve solo. -890 is what Stealth+Hide gives you. In any case, most, but not all, of the Blappers also run Whirlwind, so even if you TP into AS range you have to deal with the autohit interrupt. Thats if both of them fail to see you in your 4 second animation setting up in melee range and fail to knock your head off. (the activate AS then TP away tactic was a bug that has already been fixed IIRC)
[ QUOTE ]
Hide+Stealth = ( -500 + -390) -890 Per
Ok question... does group invisibility stack with hide and stealth?(-575 per for a total of -1465, over the cap and over 1280 (500+780per))
Obviously there's the cap... and the difference between both is 10 feet...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, currently this is an academic question since villains don't get the Illusion set so they don't have Group Invis. A Stalker can get to the -PER cap by stacking Hide+Stealth and having a team mate cast Grant Invis on him. That will let a pair of Stalkers get into AS range, but they still have to deal with Whirlwind and the fact that most good players won't even let you get an AS off just via movement skills.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I find PvP gave TP a new life...
impossible to guess where the guy will be even if you know the direction...
access to all heights and WAY faster than the only competitior that could challenge it in heights... flight...
Yeah, but we're talking about 3 grouped stalkers vs. 2 blasters and an emp. Let's suppose that the stalkers have grant invis, so that puts them at stealth cap.
If your 3 stalkers are spines, couldn't they just spike damage via impale the emp (who is the only one who can't see the stalkers) dead? If the blasters aren't running tactics themselves, suddenly they're blind... and the stalkers will most likely get away even if they have tactics, thanks to the magic of placate (unless a single blaster can quickly kill a stalker with only ranged attacks).
Are you entirely sure that one emp can stack +per via multiple applications of CM from the same buffer? If so, that's fairly broken. As I understood it, the main reason why the mez buffs stack is that before, when they 'replaced' the older buff there was a chance that a lingering status effect would take effect in the tiny window between one application and the next, and that could mean disaster when toggles drop. There's no such motivation to allow +perception to stack like that.
[ QUOTE ]
fail to see you in your 4 second animation
[/ QUOTE ]
We anyone playing a stalker knows it's not 4 seconds.... but more like 2-3 seconds
and
anyone player a stalker knows if you get hit after about half the animation it still conencts..
Time it sometime. Also, if you get hit anytime during the animation it doesn't hit. If you want to test I'll be glad to copy over to test this weekend and show you. AS stops the moment you get debuffed or damaged. Now, this isn't to say that everything animates properly all of the time. AS is subject to the same limitations that sometimes causes an attack to fire but never show the animation. Careful testing under controlled conditions will show what is correct. (BTW, I won't stake my life to 4 seconds on the animation, its possible that its 3 but that is not what I remember from time tests.)
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but we're talking about 3 grouped stalkers vs. 2 blasters and an emp. Let's suppose that the stalkers have grant invis, so that puts them at stealth cap.
If your 3 stalkers are spines, couldn't they just spike damage via impale the emp (who is the only one who can't see the stalkers) dead?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is quite close to what we actually run in SC, 3 Spines Stalkers with the rest support. If you are concentrating on using Impale, then hitting the -PER cap doesn't matter as much. In theory this works well, in practice its quite a bit harder than people might think. First, a good emp will only be exposed when he needs to buff or heal. The rest of the time he is weaving in and out of LoS of his group with SI on. Getting three people on the exact same moving target that fades in and out of Perception range is challenging. Once you all have him targetted, then you all have to land an Impale within a second or two otherwise he will just heal through the damage. Of course during the time that you are trying to get him targetted and get your Impale off, his hyped up Blapper buddies are searching for you and to ruin your attack they only have to hit, not kill, one of three Spines Stalkers. With only 2 Stalkers in Hidden state you won't have enough damage to spike the Emp out before he can heal. This is where player and team skill starts really coming into bear. Try this technique on an unskilled player and they often see no way to escape it, try it on a good one and it has a less than 50% success rate.
[ QUOTE ]
If the blasters aren't running tactics themselves, suddenly they're blind... and the stalkers will most likely get away even if they have tactics, thanks to the magic of placate (unless a single blaster can quickly kill a stalker with only ranged attacks).
[/ QUOTE ]
Clear Mind is a click, not a toggle. Killing the Emp won't remove the buff and unless you happen to get the Emp towards the end of the timer they will easily be back in time to rebuff before CM expires.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you entirely sure that one emp can stack +per via multiple applications of CM from the same buffer? If so, that's fairly broken. As I understood it, the main reason why the mez buffs stack is that before, when they 'replaced' the older buff there was a chance that a lingering status effect would take effect in the tiny window between one application and the next, and that could mean disaster when toggles drop. There's no such motivation to allow +perception to stack like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it does, if you read the skill description it even says that it self stacks for some of its benefits, one of which is +PER. We run Clarity in WB for the same reason. It's mezz protection doesn't seem to stack, tho' I haven't tested that myself.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
My stalker is 14 now... so I'll soon be able to enter BB
But in PvE... AS is interrupted only if I get hit early on in the animation (Energy Melee)
Wait a second, though: a non-stalker's -stealth cap is fairly low. Even with SI, according to peritus' numbers you'll see them WELL before they can see you if you have +per power. In fact, at the stealth cap (attainable via grant invis) you can actually stand within unenhanced impale range and not be seen. And my experience vs. level 50 illusion controllers running SI is that I can see them from quite a distance away. I've never seen one drop in and out of LoS unless they were far, far away.
Peritus' numbers seem to confirm it: a non-stalker at stealth cap is at -575 per. An SR or Nin stalker running their ranged defense is at +800 per. 225ft is what, half a superjump?
While I admit that the blasters can still see you with stacked CM even after tactics is gone, the stalkers should still be able to escape. This game favors the escapee, and each of the stalkers can make sure that only one of the two blasters will be attacking them at a time.
Finally... you actually need only 2 of the stalkers to be in hidden state to kill a defender, provided the other stalker doesn't miss with their impale. The two built-up crits will drop a defender to a sliver of life, from personal experience. In fact, I doubt that after two built-up crits a defender can heal themselves enough to survive a 3rd crit, even if they're off timing... healing aura is a 26% heal enhanced, and a BU impale crit drops a defender nearly 50%.
I admit the strategy is difficult to pull off, but we're assuming players with a high level of skill, working via voice-chat to syncronize their attacks.
[ QUOTE ]
My stalker is 14 now... so I'll soon be able to enter BB
But in PvE... AS is interrupted only if I get hit early on in the animation (Energy Melee)
[/ QUOTE ]
Lvl 11 here, going to hit 14 tonight, cant wait to Start and AS away 
225 feet sounds about right, but chasing a mobile buffer that only has to move up when every minute or so is very challenging. I challenge you to spike out even a decent Emp with just two Stalkers in hidden. I can tell you, it doesn't work 
Its probably possible on paper, but it doesn't work that way in game.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
It's very hard to test. Virtue doesn't have that many decent emps, and even fewer spines/ stalkers.
Mal, that was an excellent, excellent post.
[ QUOTE ]
Please, go smoke that crack pipe somewhere else. Doms and controllers already scream about how ineffective their holds are, you want to make Stalkers reliant on something that is considered largely ineffective by the AT that uses it? As for rooting animations, how many good PvP'ers whose sets have rooting animations don't have Whirlwind? AS is already the least used attack (other than Brawl) on my character in the PvP zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe Whirlwind is on the "under review" list (has been for quite some time). It's a major movement exploit.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
[ QUOTE ]
This has been brought up a couple times internally. The problem with making AS check Range twice is that it would be virtually impossible to land in PvP. It would also make it unique in that all other melee powers only check range once, so even if your target is running, you will still land the attack, no matter how far away they get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, well maybe it should be "brought up internally" that the real problem(And main cause for Ganking in the next issue) stems from stalkers hitting Buildup and Placate while in Melee range and immediately starting an AS while their opponent is still under the effects of travel suppression. It's a little hard to break line of sight at that point... Oh, and the 1% solution doesn't solve this problem either.
Just thought I'd toss that out there.... Since it would be a lot easier on both the Design Team and the Coding team to make Buildup and Enrage-popping suppress special effects like the Stealth pool power and the inability to target the biggest threat because you're placated or taunted. {This applies to Blapper/Tanker duos where the Tanker can TP-Foe and Taunt/Fear, and the Blapper can Buildup-->Snipe and then TF or lay tripmines right in melee and the taunted player can't do a goddamned thing to interrupt it). ..all of which can happen in the same time frame as an Assassin strike.}
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont even open with AS on squishies!
[/ QUOTE ]Right..right...and you constitute the tactics used by the vast majority of stalkers? No...no you don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually a lot of stalkers do not use AS first on squishies, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is because squishies don't often stand still to get ASed, especially BU+ASed. Its often the case that the first attack from hide is an easier to connect with attack, something that might set up an easy(er) AS (i.e. bonesmasher, CAK). Sometimes my opening attack on a squishy from hide is actually air superiority because if it knocks down, there's often insufficient time to escape before a placate->AS.
[ QUOTE ]
The vast majorityof stalkers open with AS. EM's use ET or Bone Smasher for the disorient on squishies...but on scrappers and tanks...AS.
[/ QUOTE ]
The original statement was "...on squishies." On scrappers and tanks, AS is used more often on the opening strike, but usually because they are (usually) less mobile, and more easy to connect with. That's nothing specific to scrappers and tanks, less mobile anything tends to get ASed more.
[ QUOTE ]
It's a safe bet that the majority of PvP'ers on the hero side are scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not safe.
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to argue that AS gets "activated" the fewest number of times...or actually "hits" the fewest number of times...then I'll chalk it up to typical pro-stalker logic arguing nonsense: arguing something completely immaterial to the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most unintentionally ironic statement of the year, as tallied by online voting at cohtroll dot com.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a safe bet that the majority of PvP'ers on the hero side are scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt say there is there are more scrappers than everything else...
but
I would say there are more scrapper than anything else...
so.. I'd say
"It's a safe bet that the plurality of PvP'ers on the hero side are scrappers."
...if you're able to make the distinction.
Otherwise I have to put it in a much less purty way like...
the scrappers are generally present in higher proportions than other ATs individually... ie more scrappers than tankers, mroe scrappers than blasters, etc
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this says that stealth cap at 30 is 1003.0 and the perception cap is 1013.0...
So even in your example... the range would be 1013.0-890=123... well within 2 slotted TP... no? (no not an expert so I could be wrong)
[/ QUOTE ]
I helped, in a very minor way, collect some of that data and its what my calculations are all based off of. The issue isn't where the caps are, but what you as a Stalker can achieve solo. -890 is what Stealth+Hide gives you. In any case, most, but not all, of the Blappers also run Whirlwind, so even if you TP into AS range you have to deal with the autohit interrupt. Thats if both of them fail to see you in your 4 second animation setting up in melee range and fail to knock your head off. (the activate AS then TP away tactic was a bug that has already been fixed IIRC)
[/ QUOTE ]
Beyond the fact that you currently require the Defender be empathy, have CM and do it on people...
Beyond the Blasters now having whirlwind...
Someone wouldnt even know that having Tactics up... or popping Insights wont do anything more because they're already at the perception cap.
This whole thing is extremely far from intuitive.
I'm sure there are tons of people out there swallowing a myriad of Insights thinking "hey... at somepoint I'll see something..."
Nothing explains this anywhere... not as far as official material... there's nothing casual about it...
Don't tell me defense or resistance works the same way.
When someone misses... I can tell they did. When they hit less hard, I can see that...
At somepoint I can tell that this buffing is not really helping anymore.... especially with resistance...
When I see nothing... I'm not exactly sure if there is indeed nothing to see... or if I'm not seeing something I could be seeing
See what I'm seeing?
And even once you understand what you're up against...
Preparing for it is also far from intuitive...
It's just not a mechanic part of CoH... just CoV.
In CoH all you need to know is... inviso... not inviso... and rikti drones see inviso...
I don't see this helping PvP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a safe bet that the majority of PvP'ers on the hero side are scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt say there is there are more scrappers than everything else...
but
I would say there are more scrapper than anything else...
so.. I'd say
"It's a safe bet that the plurality of PvP'ers on the hero side are scrappers."
...if you're able to make the distinction.
Otherwise I have to put it in a much less purty way like...
the scrappers are generally present in higher proportions than other ATs individually... ie more scrappers than tankers, mroe scrappers than blasters, etc
[/ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, I would say excluding people who PvP once and then never show up again, maybe a third of all regular PvP heroes are scrappers. I would be highly surprised if the number was higher than 40%, and would not be surprised if it was as low as 25%.
Its possible that the percentages are higher among the most hardcore PvPers, but not much more.
I think its probably more the case that PvP regen scrappers are a higher skewed percentage of all PvP scrappers, than all PvP scrappers are a percentage of all PvPers.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
On Triumph, it is the blappers that outnumber everything else... I'd guess 3 to 1 easily.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
[ QUOTE ]
It's very hard to test. Virtue doesn't have that many decent emps, and even fewer spines/ stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
The majority of virtue doesn't even know to harass the emp.
I play my emp defender in sirens all the time, and while I often have some form of stealth (usually just the pool power stealth, rather than granted or grouped invis), it's rare for me to be harrassed and killed. Hell, its rare for me to be attacked in the first place, and even rarer for me to be hunted down once the realize what I am.
The majority of the playerbase goes for the easy target, rather then the important ones.
Rather skilled at crying nerf when they play poorly and lose as a result, however.
And while I speak negatively of the average skills i see on virtue, I don't think any server other then freedom has managed to best virtue in an cross server events.
[ QUOTE ]
So... why not use stealth with hide and TP in from above?
You can TP from way more than 75 yards...
And Stealth with Hide gets you to your stealth cap...
Also... Aim isnt a good defense for stealth...
it's a 10 seconds glimpse.
[/ QUOTE ]
About TPing from above:
An intelligent Blapper wont be standing still for longer than it takes for their strongest attack to animate.(Which is usually the only time available for an AS.)
I doubt anyone can guess who the blaster will attack next and where they'll be completing the animation. You can start the animation near an enemy and end up like 40 yrds away.
Porting next to an intelligent Blaster is quite a feat. Porting next to them, and pulling off an AS is an even greater feat.
Come to Justice for a while and try to AS someone like Princess Doll or Posibot... [censored], you don't have to AS them, just try killing them when their emps are about.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
[ QUOTE ]
On Triumph, it is the blappers that outnumber everything else... I'd guess 3 to 1 easily.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely not one of the hard core on Triumph, so I couldn't contradict that, but what I see seems to be highly variable based on zone, time of day, full moon, etc. There are times it seems there's nothing but tanks and defenders. Other times, its controllers and blasters.
I think, also, blappers seem to show up more in organized arena fights than PvP zones, and in Sirens especially. One thing thats difficult to separate is how many PvPing blasters (and scrappers, and...) there are, and how much actual time each of those toons spends actually PvPing, which might be two different things.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
Actually a lot of stalkers do not use AS first on squishies
[/ QUOTE ] Really? And how much PvP'ing do you do? Last night Warburg...AS was 1-shotting my TA/A..by Ninja Blade no less. Why would you open with anything other than AS if it one-shot's a squishie? Maybe because you don't know how to PvP?
I've had squihies 1-shot in every zone. When I play my /SR and watch them take out the blasters and defenders...they open with AS..nine times out of ten. The fact is...there are certain targts like Hurricane defenders that prevent you from ASing. Ice toons put down Ice Slick, Hot feet, etc that stop you from using AS...but in the absence of those things...it's AS.
[ QUOTE ]
The original statement was "...on squishies."
[/ QUOTE ] Yeah...and my counter was that she didn't consitute the majority of stalkers...moving on.
[ QUOTE ]
AS is used more often on the opening strike, but usually because they are (usually) less mobile
[/ QUOTE ] Well, maybe you shoulde spend more time PvPing...my defender and my scrapper were repeatedly AS'd in Warburg despite employing crack bunny tecqnique. Everyone has to stop at some point to fire an attack. Remember...the point in PvP Arcana? To fight? Unlike you, who's primary purpose in Warbug was to milk the PvP missions, most of us are there to fight. And god forbid some MM shows up with Tar Patch which stops you from jumping...
[ QUOTE ]
Not safe.
[/ QUOTE ] Well, maybe if you actually PvP'd. There's an easy way to see who's in the zone...why don't you do some stats checking for me. Take an inventory and let me know what you come up with across all zones. Siren's is one zone uniquely attractive to blappers because of the bounty. As long as you can kill your target, it doesn't matter if you survive the exposure.
[ QUOTE ]
as tallied by online voting at cohtroll dot com.
[/ QUOTE ] If I'm a troll, that makes you an ogre. The fact is, Arcana, I'm here as someone who actually PvP's.
Honestly I spend very little time on the ground. I use, as do most of us, SJ for our primary travel power. Bounce off ledges, change directions in mid-air, basically act like a demented flea all of this makes it basically impossible for a Stalker to "guess" where we will be.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends