Power Data Standardization/Brawl Index Replacement
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2006-02-09 09:42 in Player Guides
Call me crazy, but where the hell are the actual power stats? All you've given us is a big table of numbers. So far, this is no replacement for the Brawl Index. Or are we just working are way to that?
This thread just explains the mechanics of the overall system. For information about specific powers, check this thread. It still has a long way to go, as each Scalar value has to be tested, since the devs still won't give us the info. The Damage Scale for most powers can be calculated by multiplying the Brawl Index value by 0.36; however, I don't trust a lot of the BI values out there, so I'd prefer people only list values tested using the PDS system explained in this thread.
Even without the understanding of the exact progression that foe HP follow, the fact that the enhancement system is ... odd ... due to its inverse sawtooth performance curve was pretty obvious. In particular, foes pretty clearly could not be assumed to have discontinuities in their HP, accuracy/toHit, or defense/DR that matched the way enhancements see-saw for being over- and under-level.
Why was that intuitively obvious? Well, mostly because there's a broad range of foes you can be fighting relative to your own level, but also because you could blow the cash and keep your enhancements ++'d.
I never bother to ++ enhancements unless I get lucky drops, and even then I'll sometimes sell those. After all, greening up one damage when all the rest are yellow doesn't feel worthwhile to me - often the cash is more relevant.
All that said, while I don't think the sawtooth performance of enhancers makes any good sense, I also don't think it causes any serious problems. The game has enough upheaval in it - I'm not sure I want them screwing with enhancements again anytime soon.
Edit: Hey, when did our reg date appear in our post header?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just figured I'd point something out here. The maximum HP percents that each AT can achieve are far too sloppy, and there is, in fact, a clean and easy solution.
Instead of basing those percents as a comparison of capped AT hitpoints versus standard AT hitpoints, do a comparison of capped AT hitpoints versus standard base hitpoints. The results of that are far, FAR cleaner.
Blasters, Controllers, Corruptors, Defenders, Dominators, Masterminds, and Stalkers cap out at 150% of the baseline.
Kheldians and Scrappers cap out at 225% of the baseline.
Brutes and Tankers cap out at 300% of the baseline.
Figured this find might help clean some formulas that people might work with.
I purposely listed the cap percentages the way I did, so that it's easy to see how much of an HP boost each AT can have (using accolades, dull pain, etc.) before they reach the cap.
That's understandable. I just figured that it might be a little easier to work with it from the baseline numbers in worksheets and whatnot. At the absolute least, it's an interesting find.
*head splodes* 
From today's Issue 7 patch notes:
[ QUOTE ]
* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know 
[ QUOTE ]
From today's Issue 7 patch notes:
[ QUOTE ]
* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't that be an increase of 7.14%? The old modifier was .7 right?
I'm still more amused by the fact that it's still lower than a Tanker's modifier than any math errors.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From today's Issue 7 patch notes:
[ QUOTE ]
* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't that be an increase of 7.14%? The old modifier was .7 right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed it is - I hadn't checked when I posted it earlier.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's some more numbers for your math-crunching pleasure. These are the modifier values for melee and ranged buffs and debuffs, by AT. A good example of how you can see these in action is with the Aim power, which is shared by Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors: The damage buff scale for Aim is 5.0, and the to-hit buff scale is 8.0, so using the table below, we get the following values:
Blaster Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.125 = 0.625, or 62.5%
Defender Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.10 = 0.50 or 50%
Corruptor Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.085 = 0.425 or 42.5%
Blaster Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.075 = 0.60 or 60%
Defender Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.10 = 0.80 or 80%
Corruptor Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.085 = 0.68 or 68%
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> AT BUFF/DEBUFF MODS (M = Melee, R = Ranged)
Modifier Blaster Control Defende Scrappe Tanker Peacebr Warshad Brute Stalker Masterm Dominat Corrupt
M Buff Def 0.070 0.090 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.090 0.085 0.085
R Buff Def 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
M Buff Dam 0.125 0.080 0.100 0.125 0.100 0.090 0.090 0.100 0.100 0.080 0.085 0.085
R Buff Dam 0.070 0.100 0.125 0.070 0.070 0.090 0.090 0.070 0.070 0.075 0.075 0.100
M Buff ToHit 0.075 0.080 0.100 0.100 0.100 0.090 0.090 0.100 0.100 0.080 0.085 0.085
R Buff ToHit 0.070 0.100 0.125 0.070 0.070 0.090 0.090 0.070 0.070 0.075 0.075 0.100
M DeBuff ToHit -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R DeBuff ToHit -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100
M Debuff Dam -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R Debuff Dam -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100
R Debuff Dmg -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100
M Debuff Def -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R Debuff Def -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100
M Res Dmg 0.070 0.100 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.100 0.085 0.075
R Res Dmg 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I gotta say. WHOA.
The ramifications of the AT mods just hit me like twenty tons of bricks!
Scrapper tough = 11.25%
DEFENDER tough = 15%
Tanker tough = 15%
Scrapper Dark Embrace = 22.5%
I don't have the Defender epic. But following that.
Defender Dark Embrace = 30%!!!!
Holy crap. o.O
Now, what made this even worse to me atleast. Masterminds, for the villain side, has the highest M DEf, and M Res. They get the absolute most out of Defense powers that effect only themselves. And they have the absolute lowest HP! O.o whoa. My mind is numb just trying to understand why they chose this.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
M Res Dmg 0.070 0.100 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.100 0.085 0.075
R Res Dmg 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I gotta say. WHOA.
The ramifications of the AT mods just hit me like twenty tons of bricks!
Scrapper tough = 11.25%
DEFENDER tough = 15%
Tanker tough = 15%
[/ QUOTE ]
You're reading the wrong line. Tough is a self-effect, so it's in the (M) category.
Scrapper Tough = 11.25%
Defender Tough = 15%
Controller Tough = 15%
Tanker Tough = 15%
Er, isn't that exactly what he wrote? What am I missing?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
M Res Dmg 0.070 0.100 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.100 0.085 0.075
R Res Dmg 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I gotta say. WHOA.
The ramifications of the AT mods just hit me like twenty tons of bricks!
Scrapper tough = 11.25%
DEFENDER tough = 15%
Tanker tough = 15%
[/ QUOTE ]
You're reading the wrong line. Tough is a self-effect, so it's in the (M) category.
Scrapper Tough = 11.25%
Defender Tough = 15%
Controller Tough = 15%
Tanker Tough = 15%
[/ QUOTE ]
If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?
[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is that he meant to reply to the unedited version of your post, which quoted Tanker tough as 10%, which matches up with the ranged mod for tanker resists. :P
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?
[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is that he meant to reply to the unedited version of your post, which quoted Tanker tough as 10%, which matches up with the ranged mod for tanker resists. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
That is, in fact, what happened. At the time of my writing, I was just correcting the Tanker numbers being shown as smaller than the Defender numbers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?
[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is that he meant to reply to the unedited version of your post, which quoted Tanker tough as 10%, which matches up with the ranged mod for tanker resists. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
Haha, oh. Actually that was just a typo. Hit 0 instead of 5. >.<
But still, the point of it is that Masterminds, and Defenders get more from Tough than Scrappers/Brutes o.O And the Defender APP would get more effect than a Scrappers secondary. O.o Just seems really wierd to me.
EDIT:
With the bodyguard feature, using Tough and an APP resist shield. A mastermind can get effectively 88.75% resist to lethal/smash so long as all their pets are out.
How do I figure this?
6 Pets on Bodyguard means the MM takes 2/8 of the damage dealt to him. Which is 25% of the damage. (A 75% resist to ALL damage types)
Tough is 15%, and the Soul Mastery shield should be 30% S/L Resist and 20% Toxic/Negative Resist. So before slots, thats 45% S/L resist which is applying to the 25% damage taken thanks to bodyguard which cuts it in half pretty much! Which can be slotted up higher. Anyways.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
castle has posted some interesting numbers lately, check the dev digest
hope this project can eventually make a new builder with actual damage numbers instead of brawl indexes
Does anyone know whether the leadership togges are ranged or melee buffs?
Ranged.
Alright, so get this.
Prima just released the new I7 guide, written by Statesman, which INCLUDES DAMAGE NUMBERS! And there was joy around the world.
So I did a quick rundown for comparison. The 2.77 BI attacks are supposed to be a 1.0 multiplier, so I snagged one of those (Energy Punch, Stalker) and checked the numbers.
The level 50 number for damage on this guide is accurate to within .01 of the Prima damage number.
Expected from guide: 50.05
Listed in Prima guide: 35.03 Smash + 15.01 NRG = 50.04
Why was I interested in this? I was looking for the approximated damage scalar for the Dominator patron power pools. Just to see how badly I hamstrung myself taking Ghost Widow's set.
Scalar values for Dominator Patron AoE attacks:
Dark Obliteration: .900
Disrupter Blast: 1.000
Bile Spray: 1.200 with DoT
Ball Lightning: .908 with DoT
Maybe I will make a guide for all the patron powers...
i wonder if the other patron sets for other AT's follow a similar damage scale
the differences in dmg must be because of the secondary effects
Don't forget that Ghost Widow also has Dark Consumption which has AoE damage with a scalar value of 0.8 - I think that's why DO is a bit lower.
The damage differences are mainly due to different secondary effects (e.g. Chum Spray doesn't have one, and is also a cone - hence it's higher damage).
After some extensive analysis, I've found an interesting pattern with the player damage vs. NPC hit points progression. It seems that the common perception among number crunchers that NPC hit points increase at a disproportionate rate to player damage is not entirely correct. It seems that the HP levels are balanced with a specific amount of damage enhancements assumed for player damage levels; this appears to be a smooth curve based on 3-slotting for damage. If you factor in the Damage Enhancement shown below, you'll find that it takes a Normalized Damage Scale of approximately 4.0225 to kill a minion, and approximately 8.0074 to kill a lieutenant (NOTE: this only applies to level 10+; the NDS scales linearly from level 1-10). Bosses are slightly different: for level 1-15, the NDS required is 10.5 + (Level * 0.3); for level 15-20, the NDS is a constant 15; for 20+, the NDS is 9 + (Level * 0.3).
Here's the Hit Points for each rank, the Blaster (a.k.a. Base) damage modifier, and the Damage Enhancements used for calculations (EnhTotal is the total you'd need before the ED penalty).
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Player Damage vs. NPC Hit Points, with Damage Enhancements
Level Min HP Lt HP Boss HP BaseDmg DE w/ED EnhTotal
1 20 73.3 108 -10 0.00% 0.00%
2 24.6 81.9 122.7 -10.735 2.94% 2.94%
3 29.8 91.1 138.9 -11.499 5.93% 5.93%
4 35.8 101.2 156.7 -12.292 8.94% 8.94%
5 42.6 112.1 176.3 -13.114 12.02% 12.02%
6 50.2 123.9 197.7 -13.964 15.16% 15.16%
7 58.8 136.6 221.2 -14.841 18.25% 18.25%
8 68.3 150.2 246.6 -15.745 21.43% 21.43%
9 79 164.8 274.3 -16.676 24.61% 24.61%
10 90.6 180.4 304.2 -17.632 27.78% 27.78%
11 98.1 195.2 336.4 -18.613 30.99% 30.99%
12 105.9 210.7 371 -19.617 34.12% 34.12%
13 114 227 408.2 -20.644 37.33% 37.33%
14 122.6 244 447.9 -21.693 40.46% 40.46%
15 131.4 261.7 490.2 -22.763 43.56% 43.56%
16 140.7 280 524.6 -23.853 46.60% 46.60%
17 150.2 299.1 560.3 -24.962 49.63% 49.63%
18 160.1 318.8 597.1 -26.088 52.60% 52.60%
19 170.3 339 635.1 -27.230 55.49% 55.49%
20 180.7 359.8 674 -28.387 58.28% 58.28%
21 191.4 381.1 728.2 -29.557 61.01% 61.01%
22 202.4 402.8 784.8 -30.739 63.67% 63.67%
23 213.5 424.9 843.7 -31.931 66.20% 66.20%
24 224.7 447.3 905 -33.130 68.61% 68.61%
25 236.1 470 968.4 -34.334 70.94% 71.04%
26 247.5 492.7 1033.8 -35.542 73.15% 73.50%
27 259 515.6 1101.1 -36.751 75.21% 75.79%
28 270.5 538.5 1170.1 -37.957 77.17% 77.97%
29 281.9 561.2 1240.6 -39.158 78.99% 79.99%
30 293.3 583.8 1312.3 -40.351 80.69% 81.88%
31 304.5 606.1 1385.1 -41.531 82.25% 83.61%
32 315.5 628 1458.7 -42.695 83.70% 85.22%
33 326.2 649.4 1532.8 -43.840 84.99% 86.66%
34 336.7 670.3 1607.2 -44.960 86.19% 87.99%
35 346.8 690.5 1681.4 -46.051 87.25% 89.17%
36 356.6 709.9 1755.3 -47.109 88.18% 90.26%
37 365.9 728.4 1828.5 -48.128 89.02% 91.45%
38 374.8 746 1900.6 -49.103 89.74% 92.49%
39 383.1 762.6 1971.3 -50.030 90.35% 93.35%
40 390.8 778 2040.4 -50.902 90.88% 94.11%
41 398 792.2 2107.3 -51.715 91.32% 94.74%
42 404.5 805.2 2171.9 -52.463 91.66% 95.23%
43 410.3 816.8 2233.8 -53.140 91.94% 95.63%
44 415.4 826.9 2292.6 -53.743 92.16% 95.94%
45 419.8 835.7 2348.1 -54.264 92.32% 96.17%
46 423.4 842.9 2399.9 -54.701 92.43% 96.33%
47 426.2 848.5 2447.8 -55.047 92.49% 96.41%
48 428.3 852.6 2491.5 -55.300 92.53% 96.47%
49 429.5 855.1 2530.7 -55.455 92.55% 96.50%
50 430.8 857.5 2570.2 -55.610 92.57% 96.53% </pre><hr />
This leads me to my suggestion that the Devs change the enhancement system so that the amount enhanced is based on Actual Level of the enhancement, rather than Relative Level, since it now seems clear that they've built the game based on a curved progression, rather than the stepped system that enhancements currently follow (which is really quite counter-intuitive to anyone new to the game).
The most blatant example of how the current enhancement system is broken is in defense, resistance, tohit, accuracy, and any other enhancements that modify base attributes that do not change by level. How does it make sense that a level 42 has higher defense than a level 50?