Power Data Standardization/Brawl Index Replacement
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2006-02-09 09:42 in Player Guides
Yeah .. you wouldn't beleive it.
Here I was at work, busily updating the website, when along comes some customer demanding that I help him out. Jeez, don't these people know I'm busy 
I know where the problems are, I kinda left the page in a half finished state yesterday. Should be fixed soonish.
I really should keep a development version of these kinds of pages, shouldn't I
Edit: Double post
Iakona, did you ever find the Ranged/Melee indicator? For reference, my testing showed all Mind Control powers are Ranged, as are all Psionic Assault powers except: Mind Probe, Telekinetic Thrust, Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave.
Also, you don't happen to have a version of your data file in Excel or OO do you? Or by chance know a way to convert a Quattro Pro X3 file to one of those format? I don't have QP so I'm quite sad that I can't access the information 
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Iakona, did you ever find the Ranged/Melee indicator? For reference, my testing showed all Mind Control powers are Ranged, as are all Psionic Assault powers except: Mind Probe, Telekinetic Thrust, Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave.
Also, you don't happen to have a version of your data file in Excel or OO do you? Or by chance know a way to convert a Quattro Pro X3 file to one of those format? I don't have QP so I'm quite sad that I can't access the information .
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I've found a power attribute that seems to have a value of 1 for all ranged powers and a 0 for all melee, but I haven't had a chance to check out some of the more questionable powers it lists as melee/ranged to see if it can reliably predict melee/ranged.
I've been unable to successfully save the file as a .xls, due to some of the formulas in the file. However, you can download a free trial version of quattro pro from www.corel.com. It's a fully functional version that lasts 30 days. If you're familiar with spreadsheets, feel free to try to convert it to whatever format you prefer, and let me know if you get it working.
I don't know if you've seen this thread Iakona, but it contains a PM from _Castle_ about the stun magnitude resistance of two powers.
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Well. First, Oppressive Gloom. It has a scale 2 Magnitude Stun. Entropy Shield has a -30 Stun modifier, so OG would need to hit 16 times during it's duration for it to overcome his protection. Add in the fact that Energy Aura is a Defense based set and OG needs a To Hit check to apply it's Stun, the odds of OG alone overcoming the Brutes protection is slim.
Conversely, Obsidian Shield has the same -30 Stun modifier (note, in both cases, this is the base, not modified by AT tables). Energy Melee has numerous attacks with Stun on them, each of which stacks with the others. Their Magnitudes range from 2 to 4. The Energy Transfer, Stun, Total Focus, Bone Smasher attack chain has 13 Magnitude. At most, 3 cycles of that will overcome your protection.
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I've bolded the important bits . Any idea which line is the AT modifier for this? I can only assume it's the melee stun modifier, but my testing seems to indicate that that same modifier is also used to increase stun (and hold) durations. Is it actually used in both cases, despite being to different measures (one magnitude, the other duration)?
As far as I know, all mez protection powers that vary by level use the Res_Boolean modifier. Melee is for self toggle mez protection, Ranged is for powers that buff ally mez protection, including dispersion bubble-style toggles. This Res_Boolean modifier is also used by tactics to determine the perception buff.
To find your total mez protection, use Scalar * Res_Boolean + (corresponding AttribBase).
I'm not finding a Res_Boolean modifier on any of your tables, am I just missing it? Closest is on the Buff/Debuff table, the M Res Dmg and R Res Dmg lines. But that would seem odd since I'd thought the devs said mez protection powers increased in effectiveness as you leveled, which would imply a table more like the M Stun Effect table with values varying by AT and level.
Also, which is the AttribBase? I think I'm a bit confused .
Sorry, I was referring to my spreadsheet. I haven't posted the Res_Boolean and AttribBase values to the forums yet. The formula for calculating Res_Boolean is: (EDIT: fixed a missed bracket in the formula)<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> (AT mod) * [ 0.15 + 0.004 * (Level - 1) ] </pre><hr />
Here's the AT mods for Res_Boolean, to be used in the formula above:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Melee Ranged
Blaster 0.8 0.7
Controller 0.8 1
Defender 0.8 1.25
Scrapper 1 0.7
Tanker 1.25 0.7
Peacebringer 0.9 0.9
Warshade 0.9 0.9
Brute 1 0.7
Stalker 1 0.7
Mastermind 0.8 0.75
Dominator 0.8 0.75
Corruptor 0.8 1 </pre><hr />
The AttribBase values for mez protection, before protection powers are factored in (Confuse, Fear, Hold, Immobilize, Stun, Sleep, and Intangibility) is:
Players, Minions: -1
Lieutenants, Pets, Tier1 Henchmen: -2
Bosses, Tier2 Henchmen: -3
Archvillains: -4 (-3 for Immobilize and Sleep)
Elite Bosses, Tier3 Henchmen: -6
Giant Monsters: -75 (-10 for Sleep and Intangibility)
The target is mezzed once this attribute is greater than 0.
TP Foe AttribBase values:
Players, Pets, Henchmen: 0
Minions: -1
Lieutenants: -2
Bosses, Elite Bosses: -3
ArchVillains, Giant Monsters: -99
Simplified, this means Brutes, Stalkers, and Scrappers (and Controller/Corruptor buffs) in Siren's Call have -8.98 for their mez attributes, meaning you have to build up a magnitude greater than 8.98 to successfully mez them. That means if you hit one of those ATs with three Mag 3 stuns, it will break their protection. Tankers (and Defender buffs) in Siren's Call have a -10.975 value.
(EDIT: fixed the addition errors)
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TP Foe AttribBase values:
ArchVillains, Giant Monsters: -99
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OK, I see a new Hamidon strategy. What are the rules on TP Foe again? If I recall, you can TP Foe Minions up to +3 or so, even Lieutenants, and ... don't know about bosses. That would make TP Foe a Mag 3 effect. All it takes is 33 people using TP Foe on Hamidon at the same time to move him out of the goo! Like a giant tug-of-war, trying to pull Hami away from his protection. That could make a raid go REALLY REALLY fast! Of course he could be completely immune. Alternatively, TP Foe ALL of the mitos behind a rock or spire to strip away Hami's protection. Of course they could be completely immune too. Hmm... I wonder if any server would be willing to try this.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Let's see if I've got this correct:
First we get our Res_Boolean value using your formula: (AT mod) * [ 0.15 + 0.004 * (Level - 1) ]
Brutes (plus Stalkers and Scrapper) have an AT mod of 1.0, and the level cap in SC is 30. That gives us:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>1.0 * [ 0.15 + 0.004 * (30 - 1) ] =
0.15 + 0.004 * 29 =
0.266</pre><hr />
Then, to find a Brute's total mez protection: Scalar * Res_Boolean + (corresponding AttribBase).
The scaler for mez protection powers is -30 per _Castle_, and the AttribBase for players is -1, giving us:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>-30 * 0.266 + -1 =
-7.98 + -1 =
-8.98</pre><hr />
So in order to mes a Brute with their status protection up, doesn't that mean I need to hit them with a total of mag9, or am I misunderstanding the point at which mes breaks protection? I really hope I only need mag8 because then a Domination backed Mesmerize (Mind's mag4 single target sleep) will stop a Scrapper (err, barring Health, which of course they'll have). Actually, has anyone determined the status protection scaler for Health?
Oops, yeah, I forgot to add in the AttribBase, so you'd need Mag 9 to break the protection.
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TP Foe AttribBase values:
ArchVillains, Giant Monsters: -99
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OK, I see a new Hamidon strategy. What are the rules on TP Foe again? If I recall, you can TP Foe Minions up to +3 or so, even Lieutenants, and ... don't know about bosses. That would make TP Foe a Mag 3 effect. All it takes is 33 people using TP Foe on Hamidon at the same time to move him out of the goo! Like a giant tug-of-war, trying to pull Hami away from his protection. That could make a raid go REALLY REALLY fast! Of course he could be completely immune. Alternatively, TP Foe ALL of the mitos behind a rock or spire to strip away Hami's protection. Of course they could be completely immune too. Hmm... I wonder if any server would be willing to try this.
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Hami is Hamidon class, which has AttribBase values of -500 for Confuse, Fear, Hold, Stun, and TP Foe; -100 Intangibility; -50 Sleep; 100 Immobilize (permanently immobilized). Mitochondria are Mito class, which has -100 Confuse, Fear, Hold, Stun, and TP Foe; -50 Sleep and Intangibility; 100 Immobilize.
I'm not sure how the TP foe mechanic works; my guess is that it's like Sleep, and you can't accumulate magnitude on it.
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I'm not sure how the TP foe mechanic works; my guess is that it's like Sleep, and you can't accumulate magnitude on it.
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I guess it's easy enough to test. Just have 2 people try to TP Foe a boss. Guess I'm heading to the Test Server tonight. We may not be able to get Hami, but we might be able to get the Mitos.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
OK, Just so everyone here know:
I am starting work on adding this new Standardization setup to the CoH_CoV Character Builder. Now, this may take a bit, but I will get it out as soon as I can.
The question I have for those here:
Other than just updating for this new format (other than the current BI) how / what methods for displaying the information would you like to see ?
Please send any ideas / Requests you might have to:
JayTeague@sherksilver.net
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I'd like to point out that there is also a separate brawl table for temporary powers. You can find it in brawl index form here. While I'm mentioning it, that site is a wiki, so it's great for community keeping-information- together purposes.
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That wiki has an awesome collection of data... but the wiki software itself sucks
I've started dumping this information into my own wiki, based off of MediaWiki. Editing requires an account to prevent spambots from vandalizing the place (this has already happened to me a couple times), but I'll happily hand out an account to anyone here who PMs me with what they want their password to be (obviously, please do not send random strangers passwords that you have used elsewhere; come up with something separate for my wiki if you want to edit it).
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I'll also inject my opinion that it's a bit pointless for there to be separate ranged and melee brawl tables when they aren't used. All scrapper attacks are melee, even if they have range. All tanker, stalker, and brute attacks too. It doesn't matter for corruptors, blasters and a few others. Pretty much the only time you actually see this affecting ANYTHING is with defenders.
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I've restructured the tables on my end to split out the level 1-20 data from the stabilized L20+ range. This may make it easier to use.
Great work iakona (and you other guys/gals). Keep it up!
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OK, Just so everyone here know:
I am starting work on adding this new Standardization setup to the CoH_CoV Character Builder. Now, this may take a bit, but I will get it out as soon as I can.
The question I have for those here:
Other than just updating for this new format (other than the current BI) how / what methods for displaying the information would you like to see ?
Please send any ideas / Requests you might have to:
JayTeague@sherksilver.net
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Good to hear sherk. I love your builder. Can't wait for the next version.
Excellent list! Tons of useful information in this thread.
Actually, it got me to thinking about the brawl index system and I started to tinker with the numbers a bit. End result, I managed to figure out what the actual values for brawl and the powers actually are.
In short, 2.777~ = 25/9, which makes sense since 2.777~ = power damage/brawl damage. All we needed to know was what amount to multiply times class dmg to get total brawl, which appears to be 9.
Basically this means we can get rid of the decimals almost all together. We just need to use the base damage value of the character per class times the damage factor of the power.
If you need to find the damage factor from the old brawl index system, just use the BI*9 and round up.
Brawl = 9 * lvl damage. 2.777 = 25 * lvl, 3.666 = 33, 4.555 = 41, 5.444 = 49, 6.333 = 57, 7.1111 = 64, etc.
So, for example, lvl 1 blaster dmg is 0.4
brawl = 0.4 * 9 = 3.6 (or 10 * 0.36)
2.777 * BI = 0.4 * 25 = 10
4.555 * BI = 0.4 * 41 = 16.4
Using Iakona's data, I recalculated the base melee damage per lvl for each class.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
level blaster control defende scrappe tanker peacebr warshad brute stalker masterm dominat corrupt
1 0.40 0.36 0.36 0.41 0.38 0.38 0.38 0.38 0.39 0.36 0.38 0.38
2 0.43 0.39 0.39 0.44 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.42 0.39 0.40 0.41
3 0.46 0.41 0.41 0.47 0.44 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.45 0.41 0.43 0.43
4 0.49 0.44 0.44 0.51 0.47 0.46 0.46 0.46 0.48 0.44 0.45 0.46
5 0.52 0.46 0.46 0.54 0.50 0.49 0.49 0.49 0.51 0.46 0.48 0.49
6 0.56 0.48 0.48 0.58 0.53 0.52 0.52 0.52 0.54 0.48 0.51 0.52
7 0.59 0.50 0.50 0.62 0.55 0.54 0.54 0.54 0.57 0.50 0.53 0.54
8 0.63 0.52 0.52 0.66 0.58 0.57 0.57 0.57 0.60 0.52 0.55 0.57
9 0.67 0.53 0.53 0.70 0.61 0.59 0.59 0.59 0.64 0.53 0.58 0.59
10 0.71 0.55 0.55 0.75 0.63 0.62 0.62 0.62 0.67 0.55 0.60 0.62
11 0.74 0.56 0.56 0.80 0.66 0.64 0.64 0.64 0.70 0.56 0.62 0.64
12 0.78 0.57 0.57 0.84 0.69 0.67 0.67 0.67 0.74 0.57 0.64 0.67
13 0.83 0.58 0.58 0.89 0.72 0.69 0.69 0.69 0.77 0.58 0.66 0.69
14 0.87 0.59 0.59 0.94 0.75 0.72 0.72 0.72 0.81 0.59 0.69 0.72
15 0.91 0.60 0.60 1.00 0.77 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.84 0.60 0.71 0.74
16 0.95 0.61 0.61 1.05 0.80 0.76 0.76 0.76 0.88 0.61 0.73 0.76
17 1.00 0.62 0.62 1.10 0.83 0.79 0.79 0.79 0.91 0.62 0.74 0.79
18 1.04 0.62 0.62 1.16 0.86 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.95 0.62 0.76 0.81
19 1.09 0.62 0.62 1.22 0.88 0.83 0.83 0.83 0.99 0.62 0.78 0.83
20 1.14 0.62 0.62 1.28 0.91 0.85 0.85 0.85 1.02 0.62 0.79 0.85
21 1.18 0.65 0.65 1.33 0.95 0.89 0.89 0.89 1.06 0.65 0.83 0.89
22 1.23 0.68 0.68 1.38 0.98 0.92 0.92 0.92 1.11 0.68 0.86 0.92
23 1.28 0.70 0.70 1.44 1.02 0.96 0.96 0.96 1.15 0.70 0.89 0.96
24 1.33 0.73 0.73 1.49 1.06 0.99 0.99 0.99 1.19 0.73 0.93 0.99
25 1.37 0.76 0.76 1.55 1.10 1.03 1.03 1.03 1.24 0.76 0.96 1.03
26 1.42 0.78 0.78 1.60 1.14 1.07 1.07 1.07 1.28 0.78 1.00 1.07
27 1.47 0.81 0.81 1.65 1.18 1.10 1.10 1.10 1.32 0.81 1.03 1.10
28 1.52 0.84 0.84 1.71 1.21 1.14 1.14 1.14 1.37 0.84 1.06 1.14
29 1.57 0.86 0.86 1.76 1.25 1.17 1.17 1.17 1.41 0.86 1.10 1.17
30 1.61 0.89 0.89 1.82 1.29 1.21 1.21 1.21 1.45 0.89 1.13 1.21
31 1.66 0.91 0.91 1.87 1.33 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.50 0.91 1.16 1.25
32 1.71 0.94 0.94 1.92 1.37 1.28 1.28 1.28 1.54 0.94 1.20 1.28
33 1.75 0.96 0.96 1.97 1.40 1.32 1.32 1.32 1.58 0.96 1.23 1.32
34 1.80 0.99 0.99 2.02 1.44 1.35 1.35 1.35 1.62 0.99 1.26 1.35
35 1.84 1.01 1.01 2.07 1.47 1.38 1.38 1.38 1.66 1.01 1.29 1.38
36 1.88 1.04 1.04 2.12 1.51 1.41 1.41 1.41 1.70 1.04 1.32 1.41
37 1.93 1.06 1.06 2.17 1.54 1.44 1.44 1.44 1.73 1.06 1.35 1.44
38 1.96 1.08 1.08 2.21 1.57 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.77 1.08 1.37 1.47
39 2.00 1.10 1.10 2.25 1.60 1.50 1.50 1.50 1.80 1.10 1.40 1.50
40 2.04 1.12 1.12 2.29 1.63 1.53 1.53 1.53 1.83 1.12 1.43 1.53
41 2.07 1.14 1.14 2.33 1.65 1.55 1.55 1.55 1.86 1.14 1.45 1.55
42 2.10 1.15 1.15 2.36 1.68 1.57 1.57 1.57 1.89 1.15 1.47 1.57
43 2.13 1.17 1.17 2.39 1.70 1.59 1.59 1.59 1.91 1.17 1.49 1.59
44 2.15 1.18 1.18 2.42 1.72 1.61 1.61 1.61 1.93 1.18 1.50 1.61
45 2.17 1.19 1.19 2.44 1.74 1.63 1.63 1.63 1.95 1.19 1.52 1.63
46 2.19 1.20 1.20 2.46 1.75 1.64 1.64 1.64 1.97 1.20 1.53 1.64
47 2.20 1.21 1.21 2.48 1.76 1.65 1.65 1.65 1.98 1.21 1.54 1.65
48 2.21 1.22 1.22 2.49 1.77 1.66 1.66 1.66 1.99 1.22 1.55 1.66
49 2.22 1.22 1.22 2.50 1.77 1.66 1.66 1.66 2.00 1.22 1.55 1.66
50 2.22 1.22 1.22 2.50 1.78 1.67 1.67 1.67 2.00 1.22 1.56 1.67
</pre><hr />
Yup, I might remember a post by geko saying something similar to this waaaaay back...but I'm not even close to being certain about this 
While a Domination backed Mesmerize won't drop said scrappers toggles. Domination backed Mesmerize followed by Mass Hypnosis seems it will. Maybe even dropping a Tanker's toggles with that much mag stacking.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
I've shown RedTomax the light (all the individual power data I've uncovered), and he's posted it up on his website at http://www.nofuture.org.uk/coh/powers/. Check it out for the most accurate, up-to-date listing of power data on the web. It's not quite 100% complete yet, but everything listed there is the exact data used by the game.
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Am I correct that if I knew the Tohit debuff scale for Darkest Night for example I could calculate the actual base debuff of that power?
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I recently tested Darkest Night, because I've got a MasterMind Superteam that I'd like to fine tune. With a sample size of slightly over 7000 attacks, and taking the StreakBreaker into account, it looks like Darkest Night debuffed ToHit by 10.5% for a Mastermind. If Darkest Night is considered a Ranged attack, that means the Damage Scale is 1.4, and Defenders should be 17.5% and Controllers 14%. If it's considered a Melee attack, the Damage Scale is 1.05, and Defenders should be 13.125% and Controllers 10.5%. Looks like I'll need to find a Dark Defender to test this, as I don't have one. Anyone desperate to get these numbers?
I also tested Radiation Infection. It was 31.2% for Defenders (13,000 samples) and 25.5% for Controllers (don't have the sample data handy). It looks like that will require some more testing, because those numbers don't work out cleanly. If I had to guess, I'd say RI has a Damage Scale of 2.5, and should debuff ToHit for Defenders by 31.25% and Controllers by 25.0%. Time to test RI on my level 40 Fire/Rad Corruptor!
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From a _Castle_ post Jan 16:[ QUOTE ]
FYI: Darkest Night
Its base Scale is 1.5. It has been since at least I3 (that's as far back as I checked.) Defenders multiple is .125 and enhancements are 1.98 (my calcs before were thinking ToHit Debuffs were Schedule B.)
1.5 * 0.125 * 1.98 = .37125 or a tad over 37%.
Any guide that says it is Base 30 Probably meant 30% mitigation, since that lines up with the 1.5 base.
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I sent the following PM to _Castle_ in relation to his post above:
I was hoping you could clarify some information for me. Back in January you posted the following regarding the mechanics of Darkest Night: (see above)
That would imply a base tohit debuff of 18.75%. This figure caused some confusion, as several guides have reported the power as having a 35% debuff to accuracy. However, this appears consistent if you look at 0.1875 / 0.50 = 0.375.
I wanted to clarify the status of Darkest Night relative to Radiation Infection and Hurricane. The debuff of these powers is being generally discussed in the range of 30-35% and (due to your prior statement) having a higher value than Darkest Night. Do these powers truly have a higher debuff than Darkest Night, or is the debuff being confused with the mitigation as above? It would be helpful if you could provide the base scale of these powers to eliminate the confusion.
Also, can you confirm that the Controller multiple is .10 (i.e., that Controller are at 80%)?
I received the following reply:
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Darkest Night has:
Damage Debuff Scale 3 (critters)
Damage Debuff Scale 4 (players) [Defenders only]
To Hit Debuff Scale 1.5
Radiation Infection has:
To Hit Debuff Scale 2.5
Defense Debuff Scale 2.5
Controllers modifier is 1.0
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This seems to confirm where folks thought these values were. The issue I have is that numerically a Dark/ defender's Darkest Night has a base tohit debuff of 18.75% and a /Rad controller's Radiation Infection has a base tohit debuff of 25%. I play both, and it just doesn't "feel" as if the controller has the stronger debuff. With both 3-slotted with SO's I feel as if I get hit through RI much more often than I get hit through DN.
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This seems to confirm where folks thought these values were. The issue I have is that numerically a Dark/ defender's Darkest Night has a base tohit debuff of 18.75% and a /Rad controller's Radiation Infection has a base tohit debuff of 25%. I play both, and it just doesn't "feel" as if the controller has the stronger debuff. With both 3-slotted with SO's I feel as if I get hit through RI much more often than I get hit through DN.
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hmm, might be a factor of with the damage reduction in DN. While mobs are more likely to hit, they still recieve a considerable reduction in damage.
Considering the relatively small percentage of difference (6.25% or roughly 1 out of 16 more likely to miss), DN compensates with at least a 20% reduction in damage. Even with both slotted it isn't a huge difference.
That could account for why DN seems a little better, your character is taking less damage. however, if you take in to account EF on the numbers it favors the Radiation set more.
The first version of his mini calculator seemed to be working mostly right, but he updated it and now the data seems to be misaligned somewhere. I sent him a PM, so hopefully it'll get resolved soon. Keep in mind that the spreadsheet you can download there has MUCH more info that just what he shows on the site. If you want all the AT-based data, download the spreadsheet. If you have any questions about the data in the spreadsheet, feel free to PM me or post in this thread about it.