One shotting has got to end
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2005-12-07 01:38 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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My suggestion is that people grow up and stop acting like little babies because they get beat in PvP. If your entire world crumbles down around you every time you get beat in a game, maybe you need to stop playing them and go get some therapy. So you get one-shotted in pvp? So what? Big deal. What's it cost you but a little bit of time to get back to the fight, assuming no one is there to rezz you? Do you lose xp? No. Do you get debt? No. All you suffer is a small amount of time out of the fight. IT'S A GAME. Grow the hell up.
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You're right. That's much more constructive than the ideas I posted links to.
I don't know if you noticed, but IT'S ALL A GAME. So, why should you be getting so upset that the devs are considering changing things so one-shots cannot occur?
Who cares aboput one-shotting in PvP? I want ot to end in PvE!
(And obviously only against players, one-shotting mobs is fine, when possible)
Getting an insta kill should just root you in place for about 10 seconds or something (There needs to be more risk involved). I have no problem with people doing instakills in pvp, it's the fact they can ESCAPE so easily afterword that bothers the majority I believe. You shouldn't be able to re-hide or go back into any type of invisibility or phasing after a kill for something like 30 seconds in my opinion.
Stalkers can definitely one shot a squishy Hero. But let's not call it insta-kill. While the kill may take one AS blow, the process of setting it up takes far longer, and may involve extreme danger and frustration on the part of the stalker. Finally, any team of two smart Heroes can eat any stalker for lunch.
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Stalkers can definitely one shot a squishy Hero. But let's not call it insta-kill. While the kill may take one AS blow, the process of setting it up takes far longer, and may involve extreme danger and frustration on the part of the stalker. Finally, any team of two smart Heroes can eat any stalker for lunch.
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See, that's the thing. "Smart" may a standard that is too high. It seems that some folks just want to mash buttons and look at the pretty pictures on the screen.
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My suggestion is that people grow up and stop acting like little babies because they get beat in PvP. If your entire world crumbles down around you every time you get beat in a game, maybe you need to stop playing them and go get some therapy. So you get one-shotted in pvp? So what? Big deal. What's it cost you but a little bit of time to get back to the fight, assuming no one is there to rezz you? Do you lose xp? No. Do you get debt? No. All you suffer is a small amount of time out of the fight. IT'S A GAME. Grow the hell up.
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You're right. That's much more constructive than the ideas I posted links to.
I don't know if you noticed, but IT'S ALL A GAME. So, why should you be getting so upset that the devs are considering changing things so one-shots cannot occur?
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Maybe he's a L33B! teenager?
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I don't pay much attention to these boards anymore and I haven't had the time I wish I had to play my stalker outside of beta, but since when (and under what circumstances) is it even possible to one-shot anything as a stalker?
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Assassin's strike when slotted with SOs, combined with Build Up and about 4 reds will one shot anything under a Blaster and maybe even a Blaster.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Assassin's strike when slotted with SOs, combined with Build Up and about 4 reds
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Just want to empahsise that point.
AS doesnt do it
AS+ build up doesnt do it
AS+ Build up + a significant portion of your inspriations tray is required
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Assassin's strike when slotted with SOs, combined with Build Up and about 4 reds
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Just want to empahsise that point.
AS doesnt do it
AS+ build up doesnt do it
AS+ Build up + a significant portion of your inspriations tray is required
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Even then you aren't even guaranteed a kill against a blaster...
Hide + Build Up + Assassin Strike + Placate + 4 Rage Inspirations + Getaway Power does not = Being 1 Shotted. It's being 9 Shotted and nearly any AT can kill another with 9 Powers.
I don't get the extreme danger in popping 4 reds and queing 2 buttons for a kill then superjumping or teleporting out of danger into a hidden state or phase shifting out of danger to rehide.
Lets take blasters as an example, comparable ranged damage with a possiblity to pretty much instakill but they are alot less likely to escape and also open to retaliation during the que-up getting snipe and the second third attacks in too finish. On the other hand you have the stalker build which can que everything beforehand while hidden for a 1 shot on almost anything but a tank then the ability to escape easily and be hidden within seconds. The only risk for a stalker is infact a hold or multiple ranged med/high dmg attacks qued before they can get out of line of sight or rehidden which is damn near impossible on a teleporter or jumper in particular.
This is a dead horse though and the devs have a plan I'm sure in mind, just hope they don't halve damage in pvp zones or something absurd.
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Who cares aboput one-shotting in PvP? I want ot to end in PvE!
(And obviously only against players, one-shotting mobs is fine, when possible)
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Why do you want it to end in PvE?
Anyway I think one shotting is ok. But they need to make moves like AS have a consequence to it. Say .5seconnds of disorrient? Costs 50end? Animation time of 10seconds? Something more negative.
It's been several weeks, and the Developers have not proposed a single idea, much less implemented one, to end one-shotting.
Who wants to lay bets on when--or even if--they will ever do anything about one-shotting in PvP?
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
You know there is something wrong when the average stalker can hit the pvp rep cap in less than a week of play. Thats a BAD curve. That fact alone screams to me that they need fixing.
you all need to play a stalker in pvp before you say anything.
stalkers sacrifice almost everything for AS and CS. if a scrapper gets a hold of us, we are dead 90% of the time.... does that mean scrappers should get a nerf?
you are asking to nerf the only... ONLY thing that makes a stalker any good. we can hardly scrap, we die WAY to fast, most people can allreaddy SEE through our hide(pop a yellow and you can see us), in water you can see us coming after you, auras most of the time NEGATE AS, a target has to be standing still for a while for us to get an AS on em. some blasters can almost 1 hit us for crying out loud.
Then maybe YOU arent too good at pvp. I run a very active pvp VG with alot of stalkers, its a rare occassion when they die. Pull your bs story with someone else bud. Oh and they all have a 400 rep.
sanchoxoi:
I can't let these untruths go by uncontested.
First, "stalkers sacrifice almost everytyhing for AS and CS". Really? What do they sacrifice? Let's explore that a little.
* They do 90% of Blaster Damage / 80% of Scrapper Damage. They do more damage than any other AT besides Blasters and Scrappers with their attacks.
* They share the 500% Damage Cap with Scrappers and Blasters, meaning their damage maxes out higher than any other AT besides Blasters and Scrappers; it maxes out at the same percentage as Blasters and Scrappers.
* Stalkers' Primaries are primarily drawn from Scrappers' Primaries. Their powers have the same BIs as their Scrapper counterparts.
* Stalkers have access to Status Effect powers out of the Energy Melee set. (I bring this up to cut off any argument about how Controllers, Blasters, Dominators, Defenders, and other ATs have Status Effect powers.)
* Stalkers have access to the Spines Primary set, which allows them ranged attacks. (I bring this up only to cut off any arguments about how Blasters have range while Stalkers don't.)
So, contrary to the Stalker PR Machine, they're not actually hurting on the damage front, even without AS.
* Stalkers' Secondaries are drawn primarily from Scrappers' Secondaries, and operate at exactly the same rates.
* Stalkers have access to +Defense powers from their Secondary sets. Blasters do not.
* Stalkers have access to Status Protection powers from their Secondary sets. Blasters do not.
What exactly have Stalkers "sacrificed" here? From my vantage point, it looks like they haven't sacrificed a thing.
* They have +Defense powers.
* They have Status Protection.
* They have the third-highest damage ratio of any AT in the game.
* They have the highest damage cap of any AT in the game.
Where's the sacrifice?
Second, it takes more than one yellow Inspiration to see through Hide + Stealth. You're grossly exaggerating.
Third, most auras that require a to-hit check actually miss most of the time due to the +Defense on Hide and other +Defense vs. AOEs (which Stalkers have access to).
Fourth, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence on the boards (and from my own personal experience) that a moving target can be hit with Assassin's Strike.
Sorry, but Stalkers are broken. They should never have made it to Live in this state.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
Stalkers have absolutly crappy health, absolutly crappy non-hidden damage, absolutly crappy defenses, absolutly crappy variety, and you want to take away the ability to one shot them?
Here's an idea. Find a defender with Tactics. Stick with him. Stalkers will die.
Just because they choose and kill a target doesn't mean they're overpowered... it means you need to find a team.
PVP Zones are not the arena. Find a team, and you will die less.
LordAxion:
Did you even read anything I said?
* Stalkers have the same number of HPs as Controllers, Defenders, and Dominators. Unlike these ATs, though, they have Defense powers and Status Protection.
* Stalkers do the third-highest amount of damage in the game, only slightly behind Blasters and Scrappers.
* Stalkers have Defenses. Period. They have +Defense powers, they have Status Protection, and they have Stealth + Hide.
LordAxion, I've been on teams with Defenders with Tactics. I've been on lots of other teams that have torn Stalkers apart. You have no idea who I am, so don't try to make claims about how I must be "lame" in PvP. That's just a sad, and untrue, red herring argument as well as an argument ad hominem.
Stalkers are broken, probably in PvE as well as PvP.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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(Referring to setting up a Caltrop and Trip Mine field
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Well, the blaster who does that (and The_Josh does it a lot) is at risk the whole time when setting this up. It's not something you can throw together in a couple seconds. I know that he gets interrupted quite often when trying. Pulling such a maneuver off should be rewarded with a kill.
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And taking the time to set up an AS shouldn't be?
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If defenders, blasters, corruptors, controllers and dominators can survive and do well without stealth, then why the heck can't you?
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Does The_Josh use his Cloaking Device while setting up his trap? Then he's not without stealth, is he?
All of those archetypes have ranged attacks. Stalkers do not. Melee range multiplies risks significantly.
Finally, everyone has access to the Concealment pool. Stealth is an option for everyone in the game. Stalkers are only unique in that ALL of them have stealth, and they can stack it.
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Difference between hero/villain stealth, invis, greater invis, hide
HERO/VILLIAN POOL POWER STEALTH = little glowy effect(actually makes you easier to see)
INVIS=you become see thru, but are still noticable
SUPERIOR INVIS=another see thru one, but you can attacK thru this one
HIDE=nothing, and I mean nothing shows up. there is no cue, no subtle movement, no bending of the light. there is no visable component to hide, other than the removal of the toon using it, from every other players screens. you can still attack, but hide supresses(big whoop) Placate instantly "hides" you from the toon you use it on, but only that toon. again, you just disapear from that toon screens, completely.
the MYTH that stalkers have no defenses is just that, a myth. And yes, if you click AS while I am in range, even if I am 50 miles away by the time it goes off, even if I get Recalled to the entrance to the zone before it goes off, it still hits. The only way to stop a AS once it is activated, is to interupt it. period.
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The only way to stop a AS once it is activated, is to interupt it. period.
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. . . or break los.
period.
I'm a stalker on virtue,and i don't think stalkers NEED to be as defensless without one hitting as most of them play.As a spines/regen stalker i'm constantly hit by AS,but instead of doing nothing after it hits i just activate dull pain and it's as if nothing happened.
What DOES annoy me is that every other stalker seems to use the hit and run method that everyone is complaining about.For example a stalker will AS me,i'll use dull pain and hit him back, and before you know it i've all but killed him and he runs again.After he gets some life, he comes back and it's just one big running and chasing match.
Like i said in another thread:Regen stalkers should get back quick recovery.The 3 powers you need to sacrifice in order to get stamina forces you to rely on only a couple of attacks,which can make AS a must.
The defense and perception some of the other sets get makes up for the lack of resilience,because i speak from personal experience when i say that they are extremely difficult to hit or one shot.
Stalkers are hardly defenseless,they CAN take on scrappers and blasters without AS,and the stalkers that rely solely on one or two shotting should stop playing that way before we all suffer.
"Just wanted to laugh at that. Stalker really was "Easy Mode" for me. That's why I abandoned the AT. It just made every victory feel...cheap."
I really don't know if my other post got posted so i'll just say it's exactly what makes stalkers look bad.The guys who CAN'T win without AS are probably the guys who can't win without herding.
I play a stalker and i'm soooo far from being as defenseless as every stalker claims to be from what i've seen.Stop playing in such a cowardly fashion and not everyone will eventually have to suffer for your inability to fight properly.
"We both know that's BS. If that were true I wouldn't have to take TP Foe to make my main somewhat useful in PvP (which I refuse to do). It's a nice thought, but you and I both know it's just lip service. "
No,it's a FACT that if a hero wants to see a stalker they would have to get tactics or some other +perception power.Unless ofcourse you should come across myself playing the way i do now, and i won't run away once you see me.
This kind of thing REALLY makes stalkers look bad.I was playing my scrapper in a pvp area with the IR goggles(because i can't afford to sacrifice powers to get tactics at lvl 34) and i spent close to 2 hours just flying around because the stalkers there would do nothing but hide and wait to use assassin strike.
That's so very embarrassing.Even after they had hit with it because i stopped for a second,they went right back to running away after i didn't die.
Does this make the game fun?If you have tons of fun running around,hiding,and hitting people when they aren't looking i hope you like being mugged in real life.
I just wanted to add something for everyone to know...so you can go out and see for your self.
The hide ability makes it so you cant target a stalker as everyone knows....what people have not noticed is that for some reason if you can target the person...then your area of effect powers wont hit them either.
In addition had this nice little thing happen a few times too..... i used hurricane and freezing rain which i was inthe middle of....so far i have yet to see a stalker unable to assasin strike me with those powers on.
And...get this.....if the stalker does use a placte power...the target/toggle powers like from radiation or the snow storm from the storm power sets get turned off....cant target the stalker after they playcate so you cant effect them...placate also lets a stalker stop sliping on ice slicks or being effected by tar pits or even getting hit by rain...all they need to do is placte the person the person who did it to them.
Now aside the the stealth bypassing area of effects and such things.
Perception is rather broken.
Now i used the warshade +perception power, Ir Goggles and had someone putting alot of clear minds on me.....and i can say......the Wrashade +perception and clear mind powers are either broken or so weak they do little.
When i used tactics plus Ir Goggles though i could see most stalkers unless they used invisibility or stealth in addition to the super speed and hide they use in the PVP areas.
ANywise it was very entertaining trying different characters in the PVP zone....oh yes...forgot to tell people this too.....some of the scrapper and stalker build ups.....they dont add any +perception...they say they do...but they dont...i assume they are broken...like theone from martial arts for example....it +perception is non-existent from what i could see.
ANywise just wanted to tell people.....and figured now everyone will know so maybe someone can figure a way to beat the problems.
Oh yeah...i find the scariest thing to be...to have high perception and seeing the stalkers.....one stalker then placates you.....but you can still see him becasue ofhte monstrous perception.....you just cant target them.....and with the inability to target your foe...the game engine design then allows the stalker to bypass what ever you hope to defend yourself with
My suggestion is that people grow up and stop acting like little babies because they get beat in PvP. If your entire world crumbles down around you every time you get beat in a game, maybe you need to stop playing them and go get some therapy. So you get one-shotted in pvp? So what? Big deal. What's it cost you but a little bit of time to get back to the fight, assuming no one is there to rezz you? Do you lose xp? No. Do you get debt? No. All you suffer is a small amount of time out of the fight. IT'S A GAME. Grow the hell up.