Good to see you guys are finally looking at this. Although your test may say that accuracy is working as intended the same thing was said about the super stalker aggro bubble of dooooom™. It actually took us sending you guys some demo records of that before you could reproduce what we have been saying all along in house. I think that maybe what we need to do again. We all can not be making this up if it is not happening. I am not saying that thousands of people dont lie either. Can demo records be used to measure accuracy then?
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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Castle, has the to-hit chance vs. yellow and higher-con minions changed?
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This is not just a stalker problem, and I believe the main problem is the streaks, not the overall average. For example take a low level toon with a TO accuracy facing +1s. To hit prob must be about 70-72%. To miss 6 times in a row is going to be about 1 in 1400. To have this happening 5 or 6 times a mission on a regular basis when I'm probably only swinging 1000 times or less implies something is wrong.
The worst case I had recently was a lvl 13 malicious mission where I met a +1 lost lieut and minion, missed 11/12, ran, reentered, popped an accuracy and then missed 5/5 and ran again. Came back in and then ran through the next 4 mobs basically not missing at all. Finished up with the boss, who spam slept me. Every third attack was the sleep, and he hit with the sleep, but missed with the intervening attacks for 8 cycles or so till I got bored, popped a break free and finished him. I also notice that I will go through phases regularly where I'll cycle my attacks, and they'll all miss except for brawl which will hit every time.
After this mission I logged a low level dominator on, and the first 7 times I used his AoE immobilise it missed all targets every time.
Also in non combat situations I'm very unimpressed with the random number generator, the number of low level missions where I'll find 7 TOs, 4 or 5 of which are the same type (usually range, def or dam res) is statistically far too high. Combining enhancements, I can recall levelling up doing a series of 75% or 80% chances, and getting 19 straight successes followed by 4 straight failures.
These observations may seem isolated but are a few examples of many that indicate to me that the random number generator is maybe not as good as it should be.
Overall I feel accuracy averages out about right versus even cons, but have noticed some crazy strings of misses against +1s and would like to see some checking done as to whether something is not quite right there.
And yes I did enough degree level mathematics to have some comprehension of how a random number generator should work.
Captain Blackheart 13 sonic/dark corrupter protector
Sultan of Scorch 7 plant/fire dominator Protector
and 60+ heroes including 3 50s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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Then please check accuracy enhancements and inspirations and make sure they actually give a bonus and not take it away. It seems like the first attack I make after taking an acc insp will miss.
I had a friend log out of the game for a day for loosing to an even con spectral knight minion. It never missed him and he never hit it. He was majorly pissed that he was killed by a single minion.
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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Castle, has the to-hit chance vs. yellow and higher-con minions changed?
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Yes, I would like to know this as well. It's against higher-con foes that I have "felt" a difference since I5.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Funny how easy it is to tell the difference between 91% and 95%, isn't it?
Accuracy against higher level enemies is less than 75%. With just one single-origin accuracy enhancement, you start to come back down to 95% pretty fast, and thus you are guaranteed less than perfect accuracy against +1 bosses and even lieutenants. +2 minions, you most definitely have less than 95% accuracy. This isn't even the purple patch kicking in, it's the fact that a single SO doesn't put you very far past the tohit ceiling with even mobs.
I suspect it's a combination of everyone still getting their slotting under control (thus having suboptimal accuracy), the cone attack bug, and mass hysteria.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
Not that I'm jealous, as I have a stalker too, but I also have lots of other types as well. How come you are the only dev that posts with any regularity at all about archetypes? Might we expect to see the same amount of feedback about all the other ones?
How about when the enemy is disoriented? I had +3 Acc SO in each attack yet by my numbers I only hit about 32% of the time when an even level con was stumbling around. Try doing some datamine on that and I bet you find a bug.
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Funny how easy it is to tell the difference between 91% and 95%, isn't it?
Accuracy against higher level enemies is less than 75%. With just one single-origin accuracy enhancement, you start to come back down to 95% pretty fast, and thus you are guaranteed less than perfect accuracy against +1 bosses and even lieutenants. +2 minions, you most definitely have less than 95% accuracy. This isn't even the purple patch kicking in, it's the fact that a single SO doesn't put you very far past the tohit ceiling with even mobs.
I suspect it's a combination of everyone still getting their slotting under control (thus having suboptimal accuracy), the cone attack bug, and mass hysteria.
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No, I actually noticed this with long-played characters in CoH. Characters who had not had any problems in ages hitting +2 foes started getting noticable streaks. In particular, most of my heroes have some form of toHit buff. In only two cases is this their only means of accuracy boost - a Blaster with Targetting Drone 3-slotted for toHit and a Scrapper with Focused Accuracy 3-slotted for toHit. All the others have powers like Invincibility (Tanker, Scrapper) or Tactics (Defender) mixed with one SO accuracy in all attacks.
None of their toHit slotting was broken by ED, as none had more than 3 SO toHit buffs in the appropriate powers.
These characters are all level 40 or more, and all have long histories of fighting all the factions in the game at level +2 or higher. I have, by now, an intuitive feel for what foes they hit "well" and which ones they have problems hitting, and at what level the problems kick in. In I5 this feel changed. On all of them.
I can't back it up at this point. I haven't run Herostats logs of sufficient length and of reasonable controls on what I'm fighting to make good comparisons. But since Castle created this thread, I figured I'd throw it out there.
I am aware of the exact numbers on how our base toHit drops with foe level delta. Note that my logged accuracy for all these characters, running Invincible missions (yes, even the Defender) was running in the 93-94% accuracy range for all single-target attacks. This was my aggregate accuracy against +2 and +3 foes, including the lumped in cases where I faced foes with defense powers or toHit debuffs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
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Once again spines and MA is left out, ... why cant they have bad accuracy as well ? sheesh.
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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We've already proven for ourselves that base accuracy wasn't changed for a player against an even level enemy.
Was the streak breaker altered in any way? Many are complaining of longs streaks of hits and misses.
Was the purple patch altered in any way? Many are complaining of GREAT difficulty as enemies go up in level. (And doubly odd, more difficulty hitting as level of enemy DECREASES.)
Were the values for base accuracy against +1, +2 etc changed? And were these values then accidentally applied to -1, -2, etc?
Be well, people of CoH.
I chalk it up to the "acc nerf" hysteria that pops up after every major patch.
Culex's resistance guide
Level 30 Claws/Ninjitsu stalker here, and I've been doing fine accuracy-wise. I'd like to get the 5% drawn weapons buff, but right now I'm not seeing an extraordinarily high number of misses. The toughest mobs I'm fighting are red bosses though; purples can get me whiffing a lot, but that's to be expected. I've got one acc SO in each attack.
I think it might be just the play style of a stalker in general which seems to exaggerate a whiffed attack - when an attack hits you're quickly trying to chain another attack or the mob's dead so you're moving on to the next one, but when one misses you're thinking 'dammit, this guy isn't dead yet and now I have to wait for the next attack to cycle', plus you don't have a whole lot of hitpoints to be standing in front of a mob whiffing your attacks. With the assassin attack dormant for much of a battle (needs placate to cycle, and needs to not have other mobs beating on you) it's hard not to have gaps in your attack cycle until you get to a higher level.
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Also in non combat situations I'm very unimpressed with the random number generator, the number of low level missions where I'll find 7 TOs, 4 or 5 of which are the same type (usually range, def or dam res) is statistically far too high. Combining enhancements, I can recall levelling up doing a series of 75% or 80% chances, and getting 19 straight successes followed by 4 straight failures.
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Same observations on my part.
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Overall I feel accuracy averages out about right versus even cons, but have noticed some crazy strings of misses against +1s and would like to see some checking done as to whether something is not quite right there.
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Same as well.
con-level may be 75% to-hit chance but higher cons seem really harder to hit.
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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Castle, has the to-hit chance vs. yellow and higher-con minions changed?
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That is another good question. They very well may have tightened up the Purple Patch.
Ok -- I'll take your word for it that Accuracy is working as intended. But can we at least nerf those damned Nerva Spectral Demons? I'm getting tired of them being able to slaughter me during the time it takes to get in a single hit.
Another solution to a problem that DID exist in the past that may need verified... is mob DEFENSE working correctly?
out of curiosity too, with how severly out powers have been nerfed... did the NPC powers of the same types get nerfed? (Thorn's Behemoth Invincibility, Sky Raider bubble generators, Crey bubbles and reflexes, multiple baddies AoE status effects...)
Also, I'm wondering how much more NPCs reduce accuracy with the Dark effects, Hurricane, etc.
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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Over a year and a half later and we're still doing accuracy nerfed posts?
How did we ever get past the wheel?
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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There is something missing in your Testing. I agree that accuracy is fine doing missions solo, BUT when you get on a team Accuracy degrades. It has always degraded once you get on a team, even in CoH. I can porove to anyone. I can do missions on Ruthless with the normal amount of misses, as soon one 2 or 3 are one the team i start missing even more. If they say this is not the case I do not believe, if we are supposed to miss mor for game balance then please so that.
****The Honarable Sneed****
Slum Lord of the...
The Monkey Cults
On CoX and StormRage
Mage - Snead - Stormrage
It is what it is
@Sneed
Okay.. I've been running hero stats for the past week and collecting data over a substational amount playtime on 1 character for 4 days. Days I played an alt, I am not posting that data for since the alts never got past level 10 
Each day, I've played a total of 8 to 14 hours a day. Yah, I got too much free time. Sue me.
Anyhow, during this time I've manage to go from level 20 to level 33. Not to shabby. I've been checking my accuracy the entire time. Before I get into posting results let me explain what I am. I'm a DARK/DARK brute. I use the following powers for attacking with:
Smite
Shadow Maul
Boxing
Death Shroud
Dark Consumption
Soul Drain
Midnight Grasp
Brawl
Now admittedly, when I first got a power, like soul drain at 26 and Midnight Grasp, those powers I could slot with 1 ACC SO only at first. However, that was the first thing I did everytime. I also turned off hero stats during that time UNTIL I could put some extra slots into the power the next level.
Also, here's another fact. EVERY SINGLE POWER MENTIONED ABOVE, except brawl, HAS THREE ACCURACY SOs. That's right THREE. No more, no less. There is ZERO possibility of being less then a 95% change to hit unless I try to hit anything over +8 mobs.
Now during this week, I have NOT once tried to fight anything above 4 levels above me. I usually stick with -1, 0, +1, and +2. Usually in the +1 range. With 3 ACC SOs, I should have a 95% chance to hit ANYTHING that is +1 to me. Also for the first day of testing when I was BELOW the level 22 cap I was using 5 slots of DO accuracy in all my attacks which in effect will put me at the 95% cap on accuracy for all my attacks up to +6 mobs which I never fought. Oh, brawl is only 1 slotted, so at 20 and 21 it had 1 DO, and after 22 has had 1 SO the entire time.
We all agree on that right?
So shall I copy and paste my log findings into here? Bleh, I'll just type them and then if anyone wants me to email the actual herostats logs I will. My only regret is that Herostats doesn't correctly record Shadow Mauls accuracy. It does record activations and number of misses so I have to look into it's log to manually do the calculation by hand. I will put those numbers here. Because some of the numbers may look quarky, I'll pos number of uses. Some days I didn't use a certain attack for some reason very much.
11/19 -
Boxing: 90.24 used: 1996
Brawl: 76.14 used: 939
Dark Consumption: 91.27 used: 71
Death Shroud: 87.97 used: Not shown
Shadow Maul: 89.71 used: 1284
Smite: 89.85 used: 1767
11/20 -
Boxing: 82.71 used: 1136
Brawl: 73.59 used: 468
Dark Consumption: 85.71 used: 90
Death Shroud: 69.97 used: Not shown
Shadow Maul: 88.63 used: 1100
Smite: 90.25 used: 1597
Soul Drain: 88.37 used: 171
11/23 -
Boxing: 86.03 used: 282
Brawl: 65.38 used: 106
Dark Consumption: 82.67 used: 22
Death Shroud: 91.10 used: Not shown
Shadow Maul: 92.68 used: 314
Smite: 92.81 used: 432
Soul Drain: 88.37 used: 33
11/24 -
Boxing: 85.58 used: 537
Brawl: 72.58 used: 128
Dark Consumption: 90.95 used: 55
Death Shroud: 84.20 used: Not shown
Shadow Maul: 88.25 used: 749
Smite: 87.68 used: 966
Soul Drain: 85.95 used: 97
So, what's the conclusion to all those numbers??? ACCURACY IS FUBARED!!!!!!!!!!!! I should be close to 95% on almost all those numbers except maybe brawl. However, even with 1 SO in it only, brawl should NEVER go below 70%. Brawl is completely screwed up for a whiff fest. I still have no idea why death shroud one day decided to take a break in the HIT department.
Why should I be at around 85% to 90% accuracy on average for my attacks with THREE accuracy SOs when fighting anything close to my level range? I'll continue testing and running hero stats daily, but the trend is already there. Accuracy is not being calculated right. And yes, a difference between 85% and 95% can mean a WHOLE LOT. It's not just perception. Yah, with 85% accuracy, people don't think they are missing alot, and they aren't since 85% means they'll hit more then half the time.
Can ANYONE here come up with a valid argument as to why my numbers show accuracy is not right??? Please, please please. You guys said you wanted proof. Here's proof. Read it and weep. I know I did.
Are you playing Solo or on a team? I am a firm believer that accuracy degrades when teamed as well.
But great data you collected.
****The Honarable Sneed****
Slum Lord of the...
The Monkey Cults
On CoX and StormRage
Mage - Snead - Stormrage
It is what it is
@Sneed
Consonants - I'm just wondering what you've been fighting...because if something you're fighting has +def that can make a difference.
Lets go for some rounded numbers to make it easer and assume 3 Accuracy SOs are +100%
So. You have a Base ToHit of 75% vs even con * 2
150% capped to 95% to hit.
If you fight something with 25% def that becomes
75% - 25% = 50% * 2 = 100% capped to 95% to hit.
(This is your base point for PvP)
If you fight something with 50% def that becomes
75% - 50% = 25% * 2 = 50% to hit.
Not saying that anything's not bugged, but just take into account that Accuracy enhancements aren't necessarily all that they seem in some situations.
(nb. Same if anything debuffing your accuracy. That comes off the base same as your foe's Def.)
@JohnP - Victory
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Consonants - I'm just wondering what you've been fighting...because if something you're fighting has +def that can make a difference.
Lets go for some rounded numbers to make it easer and assume 3 Accuracy SOs are +100%
So. You have a Base ToHit of 75% vs even con * 2
150% capped to 95% to hit.
If you fight something with 25% def that becomes
75% - 25% = 50% * 2 = 100% capped to 95% to hit.
(This is your base point for PvP)
If you fight something with 50% def that becomes
75% - 50% = 25% * 2 = 50% to hit.
Not saying that anything's not bugged, but just take into account that Accuracy enhancements aren't necessarily all that they seem in some situations.
(nb. Same if anything debuffing your accuracy. That comes off the base same as your foe's Def.)
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LOOK, it doesn't matter, I have a base accuracy of 75% to hit even con minions. With 3 SO accuracy enhancements I add +95% to my accuracy on ALL my attacks. NOTHING I fight within 4 levels of my current level, with one bugged exception, can drop my base chance to hit with accuracy SO's below 95%.
ON TOP OF THAT, I'm using soul drain all the time. This adds even MORE accuracy to all my attacks.
Now I do both solo and team missions. I try to stick with team missions and big teams because they are more fun and if done right faster on exps. My data is inconclusive about the validity of solo accuracy versus team accuracy because I was not testing specifically for that. It's too mixed up on what I did. I would have to do a few days of soloing only and teaming only for a proper comparison. However, the fact remains, SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN DENMARK.
Now, i will say this. FRIKKING COT ghosts suck!!! I had a GREEN Nerva Spectral Demon Lord, which means it's a -3 Lt, FLOOR my accuracy. I never fight CoT solo. NEVER. I can't kill them if there are ghosts. Why? Stupid monsters can stack their own debuffs when they aren't suppose to. That stupid GREEN ghost put Chill of Night, Smite, Midnight Grasp, and Shadow Punch for debuffs all on me. My attacks don't debuff like that. If I use smite and midnight grasp there is only ONE debuff applied. It's stupid ghosts can floor your frikking accuracy with 3 SOs. I had to pop 4 yellow pills to hit the damn thing once and still turn into a whiff fest. Someone from my team had to come over and mop it up.
So against CoT, I just rush in, use soul drain and dark consumption REAL fast, and then stand there with death shroud. No use wasting endurance on attacks that are going to miss. That probably explains why my accuracy on Death Shroud goes into the toilet that one day at less then 70% attack rate. I was fighting a few extra CoT then normal. However, I really try not to ever fight them. Usually, I don't if there is ghosts around. Luckily I didn't fight any Tsoo during those levels either. I haven't fought Tsoo at all since level 16 and only fought them twice. I hate those sorcs with hurricane and stay away from them at all costs. If I get on a 8 man team and a Tsoo mission pops up, I find a reason for me to be absent, like "SG mates are calling, got to go!" or "Dinner calls!"
I absolutely refuse to fight Tsoo with a melee character. I'm about to do the same thing with CoT. At least you can fight CoT without running into ghosts sometimes. You can't avoid sorcs when you fight Tsoo though.
This "test" doesn't prove anything unfortunantly. You haven't included any data about what you were attacking or what buffs and debuffs were being applied. You took a recording of your normal play style and that just doesn't produce any kind of result that can be used to determine that "accuracy is fubared".
If you want to do a test that has some validity, go test 100+ brawls against the same kind of even con, +1, and then +2 mobs. That would produce test data that actually means something, its boring as hell, but thats what predictable data sets are all about.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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There is something missing in your Testing. I agree that accuracy is fine doing missions solo, BUT when you get on a team Accuracy degrades. It has always degraded once you get on a team, even in CoH. I can porove to anyone. I can do missions on Ruthless with the normal amount of misses, as soon one 2 or 3 are one the team i start missing even more. If they say this is not the case I do not believe, if we are supposed to miss mor for game balance then please so that.
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I've noticed a huge decrease in my accuracy while buffed with Force Shield Bubbles, Fire shields ect. This can easily be repeated. I always ask my teammates not to buff me.....
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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You mean except for the known bug on the cone powers in these sets that you have said in other posts that you were fixing (someday), right?
205723: A Different DESTINY
When Soldiers of Arachnos got their names added to the Destiny List, Longbow managed to get a copy of the list and began rounding villains up. But one name on the list shocked them...