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So shall I copy and paste my log findings into here? Bleh, I'll just type them and then if anyone wants me to email the actual HeroStats logs I will. My only regret is that HeroStats doesn't correctly record Shadow Mauls accuracy. It does record activations and number of misses so I have to look into it's log to manually do the calculation by hand. I will put those numbers here. Because some of the numbers may look quarky, I'll pos number of uses. Some days I didn't use a certain attack for some reason very much.
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Don't ever use Shadow Maul as an accuracy example. For one thing, it's a cone, and cone attacks are bugged. For another, the Shadow Maul chat messages don't give enough information to properly calculate accuracy. Simple division of activations and misses is not at all accurate - that's why I stopped HeroStats from displaying accuracy for Shadow Maul.
None of this invalidates your other data, of course - just don't rely on any numbers from Shadow Maul.
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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.
We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.
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OK, I've had these same problems, and have PMed Statesman about it (since I'm talking DM for Scrappers).
I have played A LOT and saved my Hero Stats after each mission. I have come to a conclusion:
It's not Accuracy that's messed up, it's Defense, and only against powers that have multiple damage types. Yes, it's that old problem again.
I have two Accuracy SO's in all attacks. I was fighting Devouring Earth Boulders, and my Accuracy for DM powers were around 56%. Against Council Empire, all powers were about 90%. Yes, that's still low, but it's not insane. Werewolves, and I'm over 90% with Midnight Grasp & Air Superiority, Carnies and CoT Daemons have me at about 70%.
It seems to me that anything that has a Defensive power is either getting applied double (once per damage type) or getting applied after the cap. I now have two +3 SO Accuracies in my attacks, and I'm doing OK against +2 level enemies. When they were -2 SOs (just hit 47) I couldn't get better than 85% against +2 level enemies.
I'm still collecting data, but that's a quick status report. What do you guys think?
Perhaps the accuracy is accurate but certain enemies have too high a defense at the low lvl's. I noticed arachnos specifically were harder to hit imo. And perhaps shadow maul is doing 2 acc checks per target and using the lesser result to define both percentages in terms of chance to hit. That would always make it the lowest % possible, randomly of course. I am just saying that these are something that could be causing this confusion. I have hero's I used my 4 slots for that are doing better than the villains imo.
Pinnacle Heroes: Ilconke lvl 50 En/En Blast, Pane lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank, Kimil'Lee Draco lvl 50 Ill/Kin Troller, Blackest Blackness lvl 38 DA/DM Tank, il lvl 35 PB
Pinnacle Villains: X lvl 50 Claw/Nin Stalker, Knumbskull lvl 42 Elec/Elec Brute, Metal Master lvl 35 Bot/Bub MM, X'ile lvl 32 Mind/Psi Dom
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Did you check the streak breaker, accuracy enhancements, accuracy inspirations, & other accuracy buffs as well?
4-5 attacks with buildup and 1x so accuracy in all attacks should have an incredibly low probabliity of all missing a blue minion - yet I've seen that several times, when most likely statistically I should see that once every few months.
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I've had "bad luck" streaks hit me all the time -- I whiff a NUMBER of a times in a row (I'm talking 5 or six whiffs in a row against a blue minion, with a power I've got slotted for Accuracy and even have eaten a yellow insp...! Probably would continue to miss as well, to who knows how many times, except I take steps to fix it...).
This sort of freak occurrence should happen occasionally, but it happens much more often than it should, statistically.
What I do is step back from the mob a few spaces, let him come after me, and suddenly I start hitting again with my normal percentage (i.e., almost all the time). This works each time there is a problem -- the next swing ALWAYS hits, and I'm back to my old self.
So like the devs say, it's not a "theory" thing -- their program paradigm for attacking is fine. It's more like the random number generator gets "stuck" somehow and I need to reset it by breaking off the encounter by a few seconds.
The accuracy problem is very simple to define. If you are at full health and not in immediate danger of getting killed you'll never miss. If you are down to under 25% health and there are several baddies then you're gonna miss all the time. Nothing like missing 8 straight times against 3 yellow minions to ruin your day. I might also point out the there are 3 minions because your AS missed.
Libery Server
Emmisary of Doom 33 Claws/EA stalker
Lol posts like that last one prove that the devs would be utterly wasting their time if they listened to players about percieved accuracy problems.
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Lol posts like that last one prove that the devs would be utterly wasting their time if they listened to players about percieved accuracy problems.
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I was making a joke. Just funny how you never seem to hit when you REALLY need to.
Something is definatle wrong with the streak code.
I have a +3 DO in all my Dominator (Mind/NRG) attacks and I was clearing a map with blue con foes and I was missing 25% of the time ..I'm like ok this class has an accuracy penalty. Mind you I have ran these same missions with a stalker and a master mind and with identical slotting missing aroung 18%. So I come up to a white LT and 6 blues I have domination ready to click, I'm stealthed and so I cruch 4 insights and 2 rages to wipe these guys out with no risk. I click haste and domintation and go to town. I miss the AoE Sleep on all 7 mobs [Miss] who now see me since stealth surpressed. I try holding the LT with domination [Miss], I try levitating the Mook to wants to beat me with a stick [Miss] I get stunned as the cluster gathers around me I AoE Sleep again [Miss]. I start cussing up a storm known I have may accuracy at 95% with 4 yellow pillss. I pull back to kite the the mobs away and all my pills wear out. I have Aor sleep up again. It lands on all of them [Domination] I get the LT with bone smash [Domination] levitate and miss the blast and finally finish the LT off with Bone smash. The Mobs wake Up and I put them back to sleep just as my domination wears off. I missed one mob and start working on him. I chome my last insight and I miss Bones smash, Levitate and the hold all in a row. My cussing wakes up my GF. "How and Frack am I missing blues so much!" ..I pulled back from the fight to let my health and end recharge. I ran to the elevator to clear aggro and rest. i wen t back to the group and opened with an Aoe sleep, the one i missed I start holding hold and doing my thing until each one was dead...missing 25% of the time.
My observations:
Accuracy wrap around
Dominators have Acc Penalty
Missing & Hitting Streak broke
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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Lol posts like that last one prove that the devs would be utterly wasting their time if they listened to players about percieved accuracy problems.
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I was making a joke. Just funny how you never seem to hit when you REALLY need to.
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I thought it sounded like I joke, but considering many of the other comments in the thread I figured it was more likely to be a serious comment.
Over the 4 day weekend, I left my computer running with Eviscerate on Autoattack. (Both my target and my character were set to not take damage so there was no worry about killing each other.)
I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.
That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.
There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
Ok, that's nice...what enhances did you have in your attack? Did you get a 75% with an accuracy SO in it? If so that's not such a happy thing...
Adam Seven, MA/Regen, Lvl50
Warboy, AR/Energy, Lvl50
Sammy Sorrow, Dark/Energy, lvl44
Cariosus, DB/Will Brute, Lvl50
Myriad, Mercs/Traps, Lvl 42
So many others...
"From the cradle bars
comes a beckoning voice
it sends you spinning
you have no choice...... "
i wish someone would do that with blasters......snipe with 1 acc and aim and build up... last time i tested it i had a 49% hit ratio against white nemesis minions. it was a 2000 hit sample.
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Over the 4 day weekend, I left my computer running with Eviscerate on Autoattack. (Both my target and my character were set to not take damage so there was no worry about killing each other.)
I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.
That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.
There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
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Internal servers or live?
I only ask because I have watched a scrapper 3 shot a +8 boss on your internal servers, so what happens there and what happens live can be a far, far ways apart.
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Ok, that's nice...what enhances did you have in your attack? Did you get a 75% with an accuracy SO in it? If so that's not such a happy thing...
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I think it's safe to assume that his attack was unslotted, since he was testing base accuracy.
Did you do this on the live servers or on your internal test server (which have been proven to be different than the lives ones)?
I'm guessing internal since neither you nor the enemy took damage.
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There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
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Experience tends to differ on this one.
A scrapper test is fine. Your results assuming all internal enviornments are the same...((we have seen it where they arent...))
But Blasters continually see this issue with Build Up/Aim/TD et al
Still believe there is a wrap around with them.
@PlasmaStream
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Over the 4 day weekend, I left my computer running with Eviscerate on Autoattack. (Both my target and my character were set to not take damage so there was no worry about killing each other.)
I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.
That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.
There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
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The key here is that you said even level, most of the problems have been with higher level foes. We not taking +7s or anything like that. But if you are going to test at least go from -4 to +4 and if there is an issue it will show itself then. Also as far as I know a blaster cant have build+aim+targetting drone. If you pick the devices secondary you give up build up, and if you pick the assualt riffle primary you give up aim and if you pick both after ED you are screwed on damage and accuracy.
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
[/ QUOTE ] Assuming that's TD+Aim/Aim+BU, since I can't think of any combination of powersets that'd have all 3 together 
But yes, as has been stated, experience tends to lend credence to the accuracy wraparound theory. At least before ED went into the game when my drone was slotted five times for accuracy, if I popped a yellow or hit aim I'd all of a sudden start missing extremely frequently(read as, I'd hit once in a blue moon). It got to the point where if I wanted to use aim at all for the damage bonus I'd actually toggle off the drone because from experience I knew if I didn't I'd waste all attacks while it was active due to missing the mob. The same goes for when I accidentally used accuracy inspirations.
Since ED went in I haven't had this happen. But ED kicked my drone something fierce 
(well, it's still very good, but you know ....)
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Over the 4 day weekend, I left my computer running with Eviscerate on Autoattack. (Both my target and my character were set to not take damage so there was no worry about killing each other.)
I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.
That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.
There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
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Blasters with targetting drone cannot have build up.
Here is the thing, if this test wasnt on the live server really it wont mean jack. We have seen several times explanations come in about how this isnt an issue. But when testing off the live servers it always seems to be the same answer. Which is there is no problem. Just like how there was no regen problem back when that was being tested because your internal tests allowed you to be fighting mobs of +6s, oh but someone forgot to turn on the level modifiers or something of that nature.
All players can go off of is experience, none of us can run 40k attack testing in a safe enviroment on a live server. But i can tell you that i normally dont slot my blasters until level 12 so for 12 levels i am fighting with no accuracy modifiers, and even fighting even levels strings of 5 and 6 misses in a row is very common, and before you say numbers and chance, why do we never seem to have the same chance to strings or 6 hits?
Then add even a 1 level modifier to the pot and that miss string goes way way up. Sorry but if your doing anything to the conditions at all to allow for a test, it means your not playing by the same rules we are on live. And to me then it doesnt count, until i see these kinda of numbers on live with no kinda of alterations, that meaning from a actual played character not one that is jerry rigged to take no damage and give no damage, i just wont beleive it. My experience is to different to.
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Ok, that's nice...what enhances did you have in your attack? Did you get a 75% with an accuracy SO in it? If so that's not such a happy thing...
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I think it's safe to assume that his attack was unslotted, since he was testing base accuracy.
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I'd like to assume that, but I think I'd rather have him be a bit more clear.
Adam Seven, MA/Regen, Lvl50
Warboy, AR/Energy, Lvl50
Sammy Sorrow, Dark/Energy, lvl44
Cariosus, DB/Will Brute, Lvl50
Myriad, Mercs/Traps, Lvl 42
So many others...
"From the cradle bars
comes a beckoning voice
it sends you spinning
you have no choice...... "
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There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.
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My first 50 was a /dev blaster...
Prior to ED (Well prior to I4 actually) I respec'd from six to hit buffs in Targeting Drone to four because I hit less with 6. I only used Aim against AVs because against anything else it would cause me to miss more often. I would continually delete acc inspirations because they did more harm than good.
Sure, its anecdotal evidence, but consitent throughout my days as an elec/dev to 50. And I don't have the same tools to work with as you guys do or I would test your way
I've learned not to trust what the devs say. They repeat over and over the base is 75%. I don't think anyone is worried about the base, I can hit even fine, but as soon as I try and fight a +1 its miss city. Ya ok the base is still 75% what did you change in the scaling?
I've played this game for a long time and have never missed this much and I even picked up and slotted tatics to help a little and I still can feel it. If you insist that nothing has change then I encourage you to put AIM as one of the brute epics. They don't need another toggle but they need the acc
Castle, I am not seeing any problems with even cons, but I am seeing a large drop with cons that are scaled up or down. Sometimes I will whiff against greens several times, and yellows are a pain to hit with strings of 4 or 5 misses sometimes with green DOs.
Can you confirm the current Accuracy penalties for +1s, +2s, etc? The last values we saw were around 7.5% reduction per level difference but as far as I can tell it is higher than that now.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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This "test" doesn't prove anything unfortunantly. You haven't included any data about what you were attacking or what buffs and debuffs were being applied. You took a recording of your normal play style and that just doesn't produce any kind of result that can be used to determine that "accuracy is fubared".
If you want to do a test that has some validity, go test 100+ brawls against the same kind of even con, +1, and then +2 mobs. That would produce test data that actually means something, its boring as hell, but thats what predictable data sets are all about.
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Incorrect, look again at how many Accuracy SOs I have. THREE. Do I need to repeat myself yet again?? THREE. What does 3 accuracy SOs do? Add directly to your accuracy 95%. This means I have a chance to hit a +0 vanilla minion at 170%. Which means I get above the 95% cap so I'm effectively put at 95%.
As for what I typically fight... here it is.
Freakshow
Raiders
Longbow
Carnies
Lost
Rickti
CoT
That is what I fight typically in those level ranges.
The one and ONLY time I have trouble with my accuracy as I noted during playing was against GHOSTS from the CoT. They are bugged. They can stack their own debuffs on you and if you get a bunch on your butt you might as well stand there. You aren't going to hit any of them with multiple stacked debuffs to your accuracy by multiple mobs. Now, 1 or 2, I pop 2 or 3 yellow pills and I'm OKAY again to hit those guys. Or normally, I just wait them out and let team members with range attacks take them out. I stay as far away from Ghost as possible.
That being said, only the sky raiders have a "defense" bonus and that's when the force field generators drop. Since I'm usually the first to go in, I ALWAYS prevent the engineers from dropping those. I pick out the engys right away and go striaght for them.
My tests are very valid because I was doing EVERYTHING I could do to maximize my chance to hit. This included staying away from obvious defensive npcs (such as force field generators) and Tsoo. And trying to stay away from accuracy debuff guys, like Tsoo and CoT. Unfortunately, the CoT are too proliferate amoungst missions for CoV to avoid them. Around 15 to 40 as far as I can tell, you are going to be fighting CoT as a villain were as my CoH toon never had to fight a CoT past level 30.
As I stated, with +95% chance ALL THE TIME added to my base accuracy AND using soul drain + yellow pills as often as I could, I should in no way have less then a 95% chance to hit on average. However, I did. Care to try and fabricate more fictional reasons as to why my numbers show what they do?
PS: on a side note, before hero stats came out LONG ago, I did those tests. I was the original person that FOUND the accuracy problems back before I2 with many attacks. I would do 5000 attacks of the same type on vanilla mobs to prove it. With herostats, there's no reason for me to endlessly waste hours of my time testing what the Cryptic should have caught in the first place. With herostats, I can still set my character to MAXMIZE one stat in every shape and way possible. If I can't get that maximum despite what all the numbers say I'm "SUPPOSE" to be at then something is wrong! Flat out wrong!
PS PS: Also, Castle just recently said there was an accuracy problem with cone attacks and the bug was fixed internally and will make it to live soon. That should help with Shadow Maul, since that was specifically stated by Castle as broken when he tested it. However, that doesn't address other problems with ALL attacks in general.