Statesman posts! ! ! !
Hey does that mean he can not get into the servers also? ? ?
Also States what the <bleep> are you doing reading the COV section of the boards? ? ? Keep to your area, and leave the Isles to us bad boys! ! !
[ QUOTE ]
Neither Cryptic nor NCSoft have any control precisely when stores put CoV on shelves. Stores understand that the CoV servers officially go up on Oct. 31st...but they can decide to put the game on shelves before then.
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I understand that, and never debated it. I'm saying that intentions are nice, but reality is more important. the game is out, and people can buy it. The majority of your customers aren't preorder customers, or customers who even read the forums. You stand to lost customers here, and a loss in customers means less money, means less money for development, means a chance that all the cool things I'd like to see happen, and you'd like to do, could be harder to accomplish.
Where is the harm in opening the game to the general playerbase a couple days early?
[ QUOTE ]
But its perfectly plausible that a customer would look at that, scoff and return it. They doin't wanna wait until they get home from school/work on Monday. they want to play a game now. And they will return CoV and get another one.
[/ QUOTE ]
And again, displaying no knowledge of the fact that once software is open, it can only be returned if defective and even THEN, only for the same title. There is no "I didn't like it" clause or "The servers weren't up yet so I want my money back" clause in software retail. It's an anti-piracy measure, dontchaknow?
I am perfectly clear on your point. Last year, CoH had a 3-day pre-order headstart. I did not buy a pre-order code but my son did. I was not upset when he got in 3 days earlier than me because I knew he would and I wouldn't even though we both picked up our retail copies on the same day. On the Official Launch date, I setup my NCSoft account, entered my retail code and have been playing ever since.
They did not re-invent the wheel with the CoV headstart - they did it just like they did previously. The CoH headstart did not prove to be dooooooom for CoH and neither will the CoV headstart be dooooooom for CoV. I am certain that then, same as now, a small number of people felt inconvenienced for the same reasons you have expressed and loudly expressed their feelings.
I made it a point to learn the details - it was my responsibility to find out about the details - if I had misunderstood something about the details, it would have been my failure and the fault of no one else.
You, Sheboygan, need to accept the responsibility for your failure to learn the details of this marketing promotion and stop trying to find someone else to blame.
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Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are angry and irrational.
One reason you are angry is that even though you were lucky enough to find a store that sold a game before it would work, you are unable to play it... because you bought it before would work.
The other reason you are angry is that you have now discovered that there are people playing their games right now, while yours is not working.
You DEMAND that your game be made to work so that you can get in and get what these other people are having. You are FURIOUS that you are being left out.
In your RAGE you claim that there is special treatment being handed out and claim that these people with working games should not be the "super special" ones whose games work when yours does not.
You then LIE to us and pretend that you are not angry, you are only upset... you are CONCERNED for the WELL-BEING of the producers of the game which you are so angry at. You feign sympathy and beg and plead to play your game, THREATENING that if you cannot play your game, the game will SUFFER and DIE.
What you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that YOUR case is the special one. You should not have received your non-working game yet.
You are, in fact, MORE fortunate than most people in your situation, because you were able to pick it up earlier, which will be convenient for you when it activates and you can play it, on Halloween, the release date.
Because of an error on the part of your retailer, you have received this special bonus of having your game ready when it will begin to work, on Monday.
However, you are still not happy. You are still angry, because you want it to work now, like certain other people you have heard of.
The second thing you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that those whose games do work two days before the release date, bought special promotional materials which you did not buy, in return for their extra time in the game before your game will activate.
This is a very simple thing to understand, and your apparent failure to understand it makes you either exceptionally stupid, or an exceptionally poor liar.
To demonstrate how simple it is I will lay it out plainly:
Special promotional materials were made available in a separate box.
This special box cost ten dollars.
The special box contained, among other things, a special code to allow the purchaser to play the game before the release date. Those who bought it, bought it for that reason.
This is a fairly common marketing method in the industry, by the way.
Persons who paid the $10 and bought the extra box, get the special rewards which the box contains.
Persons who did not pay the $10 and did not buy the extra box, do not get the special rewards which the box contains.
Or to put it another way:
If you have a cheese pizza, and I have a pepperoni pizza, you might want pepperoni also. However, I paid $12 for my pepperoni pizza, and you paid $8 for your cheese pizza. I bought pepperoni. You did not buy pepperoni. Therefore you do not receive pepperoni on your pizza.
"Buying things" is not a new concept. It is not a concept which will somehow harm the retail or game development industry, which by the way, is based upon "buying things."
If you were somehow unaware of the availability of a product, which you did not buy, the fact of your unawareness does not entitle you to receive that product for free when you see others, who did buy it, enjoying it.
I'm afraid I can't make it any simpler than that. So, do you understand now? Or will you continue trying to convince us that you are either stupid, or a liar?
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Exactly. I was just marking time replying to people with real problems and watching this guy freak out. 
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed. States posted. The servers are back up. In before the threadlock and yadda yadda yadda. I'm done with this. Headed back into the game - see ya round, Clint (assuming we're on the same server ;P)
[ QUOTE ]
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But its perfectly plausible that a customer would look at that, scoff and return it. They doin't wanna wait until they get home from school/work on Monday. they want to play a game now. And they will return CoV and get another one.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know. I also know that if a customer pushes hard enough, they can get whatever they want. It doesn't take much elbow-twisting for a customer to get a retailer to take a game back thats 'defective' and replace it with a different game. Or the customer typically makes up some story about their computer not being compatible or whatever. It happens, and it happens a lot.
And again, displaying no knowledge of the fact that once software is open, it can only be returned if defective and even THEN, only for the same title. There is no "I didn't like it" clause or "The servers weren't up yet so I want my money back" clause in software retail. It's an anti-piracy measure, dontchaknow?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where is the harm in opening the game to the general playerbase a couple days early?
[/ QUOTE ]
It would cause Cryptic/NCSoft to break the terms of sale on the pre-order boxes which lists the 2-day headstart as an EXCLUSIVE perk to pre-ordering. The people who pre-ordered are exponentially more likely to be long-term subscribers. You really don't want to anger them needlessly.
I also think you underestimate impulse shoppers being patient enough to wait the two days.
[ QUOTE ]
I am perfectly clear on your point. Last year, CoH had a 3-day pre-order headstart. I did not buy a pre-order code but my son did. I was not upset when he got in 3 days earlier than me because I knew he would and I wouldn't even though we both picked up our retail copies on the same day. On the Official Launch date, I setup my NCSoft account, entered my retail code and have been playing ever since.
They did not re-invent the wheel with the CoV headstart - they did it just like they did previously. The CoH headstart did not prove to be dooooooom for CoH and neither will the CoV headstart be dooooooom for CoV. I am certain that then, same as now, a small number of people felt inconvenienced for the same reasons you have expressed and loudly expressed their feelings.
I made it a point to learn the details - it was my responsibility to find out about the details - if I had misunderstood something about the details, it would have been my failure and the fault of no one else.
You, Sheboygan, need to accept the responsibility for your failure to learn the details of this marketing promotion and stop trying to find someone else to blame.
[/ QUOTE ]
Blame doesn't solve the problem. The problem is the game is open now to anyone and everyone, but they can't play it and that could cost them customers. It doesn't matter who's FAULT it is. It matters, now, if PlayNC wants to stick by their guns, or allow their customers play the game on the day they buy it and not have to wait.
I'm not here looking for personal gratification. I'm not stupid. There's nothing this forum community can give me. This is simply a point of debate. So stop telling me I'm at fault for buying the game, like I don't know that. My point is, what about the people who also didn't know? Because I'm willing to bet there's more of them than there are of you.
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[ QUOTE ]
Where is the harm in opening the game to the general playerbase a couple days early?
[/ QUOTE ]
It would cause Cryptic/NCSoft to break the terms of sale on the pre-order boxes which lists the 2-day headstart as an EXCLUSIVE perk to pre-ordering. The people who pre-ordered are exponentially more likely to be long-term subscribers. You really don't want to anger them needlessly.
I also think you underestimate impulse shoppers being patient enough to wait the two days.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really think they stand to lose more customers by opening the servers than not?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are angry and irrational.
One reason you are angry is that even though you were lucky enough to find a store that sold a game before it would work, you are unable to play it... because you bought it before would work.
The other reason you are angry is that you have now discovered that there are people playing their games right now, while yours is not working.
You DEMAND that your game be made to work so that you can get in and get what these other people are having. You are FURIOUS that you are being left out.
In your RAGE you claim that there is special treatment being handed out and claim that these people with working games should not be the "super special" ones whose games work when yours does not.
You then LIE to us and pretend that you are not angry, you are only upset... you are CONCERNED for the WELL-BEING of the producers of the game which you are so angry at. You feign sympathy and beg and plead to play your game, THREATENING that if you cannot play your game, the game will SUFFER and DIE.
What you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that YOUR case is the special one. You should not have received your non-working game yet.
You are, in fact, MORE fortunate than most people in your situation, because you were able to pick it up earlier, which will be convenient for you when it activates and you can play it, on Halloween, the release date.
Because of an error on the part of your retailer, you have received this special bonus of having your game ready when it will begin to work, on Monday.
However, you are still not happy. You are still angry, because you want it to work now, like certain other people you have heard of.
The second thing you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that those whose games do work two days before the release date, bought special promotional materials which you did not buy, in return for their extra time in the game before your game will activate.
This is a very simple thing to understand, and your apparent failure to understand it makes you either exceptionally stupid, or an exceptionally poor liar.
To demonstrate how simple it is I will lay it out plainly:
Special promotional materials were made available in a separate box.
This special box cost ten dollars.
The special box contained, among other things, a special code to allow the purchaser to play the game before the release date. Those who bought it, bought it for that reason.
This is a fairly common marketing method in the industry, by the way.
Persons who paid the $10 and bought the extra box, get the special rewards which the box contains.
Persons who did not pay the $10 and did not buy the extra box, do not get the special rewards which the box contains.
Or to put it another way:
If you have a cheese pizza, and I have a pepperoni pizza, you might want pepperoni also. However, I paid $12 for my pepperoni pizza, and you paid $8 for your cheese pizza. I bought pepperoni. You did not buy pepperoni. Therefore you do not receive pepperoni on your pizza.
"Buying things" is not a new concept. It is not a concept which will somehow harm the retail or game development industry, which by the way, is based upon "buying things."
If you were somehow unaware of the availability of a product, which you did not buy, the fact of your unawareness does not entitle you to receive that product for free when you see others, who did buy it, enjoying it.
I'm afraid I can't make it any simpler than that. So, do you understand now? Or will you continue trying to convince us that you are either stupid, or a liar?
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you do me a favor and discuss the principle subject of the debate,a nd stop attacking me on a personal level? I'll admit I'm annoyed, but I'm not OMG FURIOUS.
I'm, in truth, far more concerned with the potential loss of customers than anything else. I love PlayNC, I love CoH, and I hope to love CoV. I'm just worried that there are a lot of burned casual gamers out there.
Ad hominum (sp?) attacks are the weakest tool of any debater. Not saying you're doing that, but it has been tossed around in this thread. But hey, its the internet, and as long as you pretend to be awesomer than someone, you are.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just concerned that a game company I love is hurting itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow.. that's a major tune change from the start of this thread where it was everyone else in the world's fault that you couldn't play in the headstart.
F.Y.I. I put money down on the game before the pre-order stuff was formally announced. When it was announced, *I* went to the store to make sure that *I* was getting the right product, not that *THE STORE* was selling me the pre-order.
When the collector's edition was announced, once again, *I* went to the store to make sure that my pre-order was switched and I would be getting the proper bonuses. When people on the boards started saying they had gotten they're pre-order disks, *I* went to my store to make sure I got mine.
I also ordered a pre-order copy online for a friend. After seeing the order email confirmation *I* called the company [GameStop] to make sure that my friend was getting the pre-order bonus, which wasn't explicitly mentioned on the order form. In the end, I got mine and he got his, and all is right in the CoV retail saga.
Why? Because I was the one who made sure that I was getting what I ordered. You are obviously intelligent enough to read the boards and post, yet you didn't bother to make sure of what you were getting.
You bought before the announcement and then just assumed what you put your money down on was what was announced. The product you put money down on was the game itself, not the pre-order which is a different sku. Retailers should not switch your downpayment over to another product without your approval.
NCSoft and Cryptic have announced the open server date of 10/31 for quite a while now, that is not the same as a street date. What you're saying is that if someone buys a ticket for a 4pm showing of Star Bores Episode XII, they should be able to see it NOW because they have the ticket in their hand. Nope.. it don't work that way.
Having managed retail video, I know a about street dates and legality (don't break a Disney street date.. EVER). This is not a street date issue. This is a "let's blame everybody else for my mistake" issue.
You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame
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[ QUOTE ]
... Persons who paid the $10 and bought the extra box, get the special rewards which the box contains.
Persons who did not pay the $10 and did not buy the extra box, do not get the special rewards which the box contains.
Or to put it another way:
If you have a cheese pizza, and I have a pepperoni pizza, you might want pepperoni also. However, I paid $12 for my pepperoni pizza, and you paid $8 for your cheese pizza. I bought pepperoni. You did not buy pepperoni. Therefore you do not receive pepperoni on your pizza.
"Buying things" is not a new concept. It is not a concept which will somehow harm the retail or game development industry, which by the way, is based upon "buying things."
If you were somehow unaware of the availability of a product, which you did not buy, the fact of your unawareness does not entitle you to receive that product for free when you see others, who did buy it, enjoying it.
I'm afraid I can't make it any simpler than that. So, do you understand now? Or will you continue trying to convince us that you are either stupid, or a liar?
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you do me a favor and discuss the principle subject of the debate,a nd stop attacking me on a personal level? I'll admit I'm annoyed, but I'm not OMG FURIOUS.
I'm, in truth, far more concerned with the potential loss of customers than anything else. I love PlayNC, I love CoH, and I hope to love CoV. I'm just worried that there are a lot of burned casual gamers out there.
Ad hominum (sp?) attacks are the weakest tool of any debater. Not saying you're doing that, but it has been tossed around in this thread. But hey, its the internet, and as long as you pretend to be awesomer than someone, you are.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see. So you have decided to choose option 2: stupidity and dishonesty. Good luck with that. Let us know how it works out for you. 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think they stand to lose more customers by opening the servers than not?
[/ QUOTE ]
Anal-retentive lovers of rules and law (guilty as charged, SIR!) would possibly feel compelled to point out, in no uncertain terms, that doing so was an explicit act of breach of contract, as said 2-day headstart was advertised as exclusive to pre-order custoemrs and defined as before anyone else can get into the game. Ergo, if they do not wait 48 hours, or reasonably close thereto, from when the servers opened for me to join ...
Yeah, it'd cause them more hell than catering to pantywaists like you. Now if you'll excuse me, I pre-ordered the CORRECT way, and have some characters to level up. Ta!
And here I was, hoping desperately that Corporate was the last bastion for decent debate. I called him on the ad hominum and he went ahead and did it anyway. Well, whatever. I've made my point. If the forum community is too wrapped up in itself to understand that the majority of the playerbase don't come here, then thats not my problem. I just hope this issue doesn't cost PlayNC too many customers.
If only posters could lock their own threads.
Edit: By the way, feel free to continue calling me names simply because I'm a dissenting opinion. You'll note, if you look through my previous posts, I never once did so myself. Taking the high road? Maybe. Or perhaps I don't use the internet to stroke my own ego. I will not be checking this thread any longer, but if you wanna continue calling me names and pretending like you're hurting my feelings, please feel free to conitnue doing so. I'll be over here playing F.E.A.R.
Listen, there's two choices here:
Either Cryptic can release the game a little early, opening up to the possibility that people can buy it before the servers are open and not be able to play it.
Or they can release it to store on Monday, where many people will not be able to receive their copy until Tues or even Thursday, making them unable to play for days.
And Corporate's post was the most decent and well constructed I've seen in a while. You tossed out ad hominum on it to divert the issue, rather than addess his points directly.
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Good freaking lord, its not PlayNC's FAULT. It is, however, their PROBLEM. If you ran a company, would you risk losing your retail customers in order to continue appealing to your marginally smaller preorder customers?
[/ QUOTE ]
Then, why don't you inform NCSoft of this particular store breaking the release date, and causing the problem that you've ran into? That way NCSoft can address the problem you're complaining about. Give them the store address and location, so they're made aware of it.
[/ QUOTE ]
That wouldn't do any good. They can't stop the retailer from selling the game now that the street date is broken. (And typically, its Wal-Mart that breaks street dates, or Best Buy. Large retailers are famous for it). All they can do now is make the choice:
Keep the game locked for everyone but preorder customers until monday, or let the customers who are buying it right now play? Think of it this way:
Keep the game locked until Monday and risk losing customers,
or
Open the game up and risk losing absolutely nobody.
Is it really a hard decisiuon? Is this really some sort of glaring problem the forum community must attack, like a pack of starving wolves, and tear to pieces?
[/ QUOTE ]
a little late for joining this thread, but i used to be a causal gamer, and i always knew that games were released on a tuesday and couldn't buy a copy of it until wednesday or reallt late on tuesday. so majority of the causal gamers i am sure aren't even purchasing the game yet and figure they can't until tuesday. heck, i even figured that i wouldn't be able to pick it until tuesday, since it said it was to be released/shipped on monday the 31st. I think you just happened to be jealous because you didn't get a pre-order and figured you could lash out on everyone here, thinking that no matter what you said, we would change our minds, because you are the causal gamer, who apparently never reads his emails/newsletters that PlayNC sends you, you only read the training room board to see the newest update.... technically if you come to a board to post about a game you are no longer part of teh causal gamer. a causal gamer is someone who never reads anything, never cares when the game is released, only plays when they can get a an hour or 2 if they are lucky.... you how ever aren't a causal gamer, seeing you are here posting and hovering at your local game store, for when it is coming, you are not a causal. you can call you self that all you want, but you aren't... hell i call myself the king of the world, but in reality no one believes me. seeing you think that this game is loosing people because a store sold copies of a not yet released game, how about you find more people to post here saying that they are leaving since they can't play......
[ QUOTE ]
Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, No! All the merchandising I've seen say Play City of Villains on 31 Oct 2005. All stores are putting the game out early so you can install and get your system ready. A release date and a play on date are 2 different things. Sounds like you a made a deposit on the Full edition well before a preorder kit was annouced by NCSOFT. Your local store is at fault. I know a few male people had preordered too early and got a female special helm from Game Stop. Now truthfully, your retailer should have applied your deposit to a preoder kit and called you when it came in, that store messed up and they owe you a kit IMO. Secondly, when the official preorder kits were announced you should have double checked with the store to see what helm/version you were getting to CYA.
-Hate the player not the sport.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
Statesman posts! ! ! !
Hey does that mean he can not get into the servers also? ? ?
Also States what the <bleep> are you doing reading the COV section of the boards? ? ? Keep to your area, and leave the Isles to us bad boys! ! !
[/ QUOTE ]
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. . .
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, No! All the merchandising I've seen say Play City of Villains on 31 Oct 2005. All stores are putting the game out early so you can install and get your system ready. A release date and a play on date are 2 different things. Sounds like you a made a deposit on the Full edition well before a preorder kit was annouced by NCSOFT. Your local store is at fault. I know a few male people had preordered too early and got a female special helm from Game Stop. Now truthfully, your retailer should have applied your deposit to a preoder kit and called you when it came in, that store messed up and they owe you a kit IMO. Secondly, when the official preorder kits were announced you should have double checked with the store to see what helm/version you were getting to CYA.
-Hate the player not the sport.
[/ QUOTE ]
thank you 
thats basicly what it comes down to
If you allow the retail people in early then how are you going to compensate all of the people promised a 2 day headstart? sorry release date is the 31st. If you don't have the correct pre-order from the store then take it up with them.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
You reading your debate on why you should get in early like all of us pre-order customers gives me a headache. So I will debate on part of your logic. That is how many people are in the same boat as you. You talk about this wide array of an army of disgruntled casual players who are at this very moment at home wringing their hands in discust at the fact they bought this game but can't play it. Well site your sources man. How many people bought the game early. Tell us where you got your info on how many people pre-ordered it. How many pre-ordered? That way we can see where you get this idea that the number of people bought this game and have it too early is larger than the number of people who pre-ordered the game. You are the one who put out the theory now prove it.
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Do you really think they stand to lose more customers by opening the servers than not?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually yes, in addition opening the servers up early would likely open them up to a class action lawsuit by everyone who had a legitamate preorder. No they are not going to do it.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
SO you would be happier if the game wasn't on the shelves until the 31st? How the hell is that any different than what you have now?
I think the real problem is your attitude to this...
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and for the record, I have other games to play. I'm just concerned that a game company I love is hurting itself.
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I agree 100%. Read my post above. A bit off subject but touches on the same overall problem.