You are right off topic in that area of forum! 
But thank you for making me right on one fact : those whos dont know how to play wont see the effects ... have fun playing without plannin....!
[ QUOTE ]
I would love an explanation as to how we are to slot powers that don't have viable diversification options
[/ QUOTE ]
Save them for your damage powers, you can't 6-slot everything.
Seems to me that the DEV's idea of "diversification" is that everybody will 3-slot damage, 2-slot end, and 1-slot attack rate on their damage powers. Sounds real diverse to me.....
Might I enquire as to whom you are that your view of "how to play" is paramount? Unless I am much mistaken, CoH is an MMORPG. Unless I am much mistaken, the RP in that stands for Role Playing. There are those of us who have decided to play this game because of the opportunity to portray a super hero, as opposed to so we can do math and play a FPS in third person. This isn't a standard fight game. It's designed around the ability to Role Play. That's what the bios are for. That's why the character design is such a large part of the game and is, to the best of my knowledge, the most advance character design system available today. So please do not presume to tell others what is or is not an acceptable style of play. Your thoughts on the subject are no more or less valid than any other's. One who plays to play instead of to "win" is not one who "does not know how to play", they merely have a different reason for playing than you must.
That being said, I admit that I think ED is a bad thing.
Sincerely,
Christopher
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
|
People will notice like how this empath did:
[Broadcast] C-Med XII: My 300 point heal does 180? [censored] is this ****!?
Or this Tanker:
[Broadcast] Panzer Man: Holy ****! I just died to 3 oranges!
And, with ED came the stealth nerfs:
[Team] Talonmaster: Did integration just drop in 3 holds?
[Team] MezDomme: Holy hell tanker take the damn aggro!
[Team] Firebasher: I can't! Every time I taunt more, some turn away!
[Team] Firebasher: It's like they capped aggro!
[ QUOTE ]
With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.
Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
ok sorry but this is just a slap in the face to me before l6 i had endurance problems. Now that i6 has hit my toon is useless. i run out of endurance so fast that i eather have to run or die . 13.33% is a start but it is like putting a bandaide on a bullet wound. 
lvl 34 bs/inv scrapper
I would like to second Wintersetcoyote's comments and add the following...
[ QUOTE ]
I used to play this game to have fun...repeat, USED... I didnt know I had to be a mathematician to play..repeat..PLAY..a game.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what Subduer1 stated, to which I responded that it is possible (note, POSSIBLE) to play the game without all the math involved.
To be perfectly honest, you simply can't have it both ways. Either you play and don't worry about the numbers, or you have to be a mathematician.
As for your style of play, fine. You apparently are concerned with the numbers and - therefore - you would see that my statement is correct that the Endurance Discount has, in effect, increased the effectiveness of endurance enhancements.
The only people who were hurt seriously by ED even with end discounts were the people who had 6-slotted stamina (or other end regen).
And since you basically have to give up some +dmg slots as they do almost nothing past 3, you can easily slot one +end reduction to all of your combat powers.
I did the respec, and dropped stamina to 3 slots, and I have no endurance problems whatsoever. 3xSO on stamina, 1xSO end reduction on every combat and end-sucking toggle power (replacing one damage/resistacen/whatever I had 4-5 in the power).
I know I dont have any 40+ characters, so I dunno how big deal it's in endgame, but for L20-40, it just requires one respec to change slotting a bit (and you get 3 'free' slots off stamina to be used elsewhere!)
with my stalker it doesn't feel like a reduction in endurance, i've never used more.
Okay... respecced.
Have you guys /played/ this game after respeccing yet? What are you whinging about? I accidentally fought a mission on invincible (Spines/Inv Scrapper) solo, after having done an insane four person Nemesis mission on invincible and logging out to restart my (very very slow) machine.
I won.
What the hell? I thought I was supposed to be 'worthless' and 'racked in the jimmy' and 'taking a groin shot' after ED? Instead, I slow my enemies more, have better accuracy from my Invincibility and Build Up, hit a little less often, do roughly the same damage, and generally speaking... beat the ever living snot out of everything I come in contact with!
I usually play on Tenacious, but I went ahead and only dropped to Rugged after that one crazy Crey mission... Now I die roughly once every four or five missions (mostly due to my build's vulnerability to fire, and I accept that, because it's concept, it's flavorful, and it gives me something to worry about...) and the Debt is gone in two.
I chopped Stamina down to four slots, and you know what, I still can only barely keep up with my powers regular recharge times (NO HASTEN, DO YOU HEAR ME?! NONE, NO HASTEN, NEVER HAD IT, NEVER WILL!) in a full fight. I can, maybe, if I miss frequently, run out of stamina... but that's what those little blue tabs with the lightning thingy in the middle are for, kiddies... to make that blue bar all big again!
I like ED, guys, but with the 13.33 percent cut in endurance costs, how about a 10 or 15 percent increase in the secondary effects of powers? I want to see guys tossed, stuck, stunned, cowering, staggering, and slowed just a bit more, and the enhancements seem to do very little for the actual duration. (33.33% of 2 seconds is........ not a lot.)
-Carapace, L35 Scrapper
*sigh* Okay.. I'm done reading this thread by page nine... I'm sick of the whining.
'We never get anything, all you ever do is nerf us!'
To this I must reply: Critical Hits, Auto-Taunt, Defiance Blaster Madness, Critical Control, Sudden Defender Save, Epic Power Pools, Epic Archetype, New Power Sets, Badge Bonuses, and CITY OF VILLAINS!
Yes, it's better than nothing. However, consider the reduction in damage potential. With ED, instead of our customary 5 dmg, we are "encouraged" to have only 3. This is slightly more than a 2/5 reduction. Which means, we have to attack that much more to deal the same damage. The pace of the game, even slotted with an end reduction, is still ridiculously slow when soloing.
Warning! Getting off track .......
....NOW!
I would even team up to speed it up, but everyone is playing CoV or something. There sure doesn't seem to be many players in CoH now.
DOn't misunderstsnd me, I know some folks are playing. But the folks in my level, well 2 controllers a defender and a blaster can do ok, but a team with a couple of melee would be most welcome. Not sure if it's the newer AT's in CoV or ED or a combination of those and other factors, but gathering a balanced team on Liberty is much more challenging than on Infinity. ( at least it was for me)
Ok, back on track.......Now!
How about this? Since endurance is always an issue for most toons, how about making it available sooner than level 20?
I've never quite understood why we have to wait that long to get it. I better stop now before I get off track again.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
The 13% discount is not enough.
We lost Endurance recovery when Stamina was nerfed. Reducing Endurance usage does not help. Not enough to make a difference. You're still going to hit the bottom of your bar, and when you do, unless the power costs literally nothing to use, it doesn't matter how much less it costs now than it cost before. What matters is how fast you get that Endurance back.
Even in COV where the ATs were supposedly designed with this in mind, I still have Endurance issues.
Increase the base Endurance recovery rate. Now. It's the only acceptable solution.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
[ QUOTE ]
*sigh* Okay.. I'm done reading this thread by page nine... I'm sick of the whining.
'We never get anything, all you ever do is nerf us!'
To this I must reply: Critical Hits, Auto-Taunt, Defiance Blaster Madness, Critical Control, Sudden Defender Save, Epic Power Pools, Epic Archetype, New Power Sets, Badge Bonuses, and CITY OF VILLAINS!
[/ QUOTE ]
come on city of villians is not a gift it is just a way for them to make more money, get your head out of your butt and look around. Hell they got so many complaints about ed that they shut down the thread cause it was not stopping
Show me the numbers before the discount and after.I doubt its really as good of a deal as you claim.
Is it just me, or is basically most of this thread some flavor or other of "I'm not powerful enough to rule everything, every time?"
If they decrease the endurance usage rate, then some people are going to be helped. Probably, if the developers are really doing their jobs, some people will still run out. If people never ran out of endurance, then endurance wouldn't be meaningful, and should be removed from the game!
But, endurance is in the game, so it must have some function, it *must* run out for some people.
While it's annoying that Enhancement Diversification restricts some player choice (it restricts because it makes a certain slotting decision almost useless), the fact that you can make up for it, to some degree, by slotting differently makes up for it. In fact, my biggest problem with ED is that it's a little too arbitrary; its effects should be distributed smoothly across the range of possible improvement, instead of kicking in at certain levels.
[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me, or is basically most of this thread some flavor or other of "I'm not powerful enough to rule everything, every time?"
If they decrease the endurance usage rate, then some people are going to be helped. Probably, if the developers are really doing their jobs, some people will still run out. If people never ran out of endurance, then endurance wouldn't be meaningful, and should be removed from the game!
But, endurance is in the game, so it must have some function, it *must* run out for some people.
While it's annoying that Enhancement Diversification restricts some player choice (it restricts because it makes a certain slotting decision almost useless), the fact that you can make up for it, to some degree, by slotting differently makes up for it. In fact, my biggest problem with ED is that it's a little too arbitrary; its effects should be distributed smoothly across the range of possible improvement, instead of kicking in at certain levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
with me yeah endurance is an issue but the bigger issue is that my defence powers were cut yet again. and half my defence powers use only one type od enhancment
My MA/invuln scrapper is shelved. He had endurance problems even with stamina six-slotted, and this piddly 13% global end redux does NOTHING to offset the mega-nerfs created by ED. Not only is my end recovery severly cut, but so is my damage, which means I have to execute my attacks even more frequently, thereby using even more end. The 13% and end-redux enhs are not enough to compensate.
(And of course, all my /invuln resists have been massively nerfed AGAIN, as if the earlier nerfs weren't bad enough.)
ED is absolutely the most ridiculous thing ever to occur in this game. This 13% global end redux is meaningless. You've drained the reservoir and given us a glass of water. And you expect us to be happy with the glass of water.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay... respecced.
Have you guys /played/ this game after respeccing yet? What are you whinging about? I accidentally fought a mission on invincible (Spines/Inv Scrapper) solo, after having done an insane four person Nemesis mission on invincible and logging out to restart my (very very slow) machine.
I won.
What the hell? I thought I was supposed to be 'worthless' and 'racked in the jimmy' and 'taking a groin shot' after ED? Instead, I slow my enemies more, have better accuracy from my Invincibility and Build Up, hit a little less often, do roughly the same damage, and generally speaking... beat the ever living snot out of everything I come in contact with!
I usually play on Tenacious, but I went ahead and only dropped to Rugged after that one crazy Crey mission... Now I die roughly once every four or five missions (mostly due to my build's vulnerability to fire, and I accept that, because it's concept, it's flavorful, and it gives me something to worry about...) and the Debt is gone in two.
I chopped Stamina down to four slots, and you know what, I still can only barely keep up with my powers regular recharge times (NO HASTEN, DO YOU HEAR ME?! NONE, NO HASTEN, NEVER HAD IT, NEVER WILL!) in a full fight. I can, maybe, if I miss frequently, run out of stamina... but that's what those little blue tabs with the lightning thingy in the middle are for, kiddies... to make that blue bar all big again!
I like ED, guys, but with the 13.33 percent cut in endurance costs, how about a 10 or 15 percent increase in the secondary effects of powers? I want to see guys tossed, stuck, stunned, cowering, staggering, and slowed just a bit more, and the enhancements seem to do very little for the actual duration. (33.33% of 2 seconds is........ not a lot.)
-Carapace, L35 Scrapper
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Carapace, nice nuild . My Valley Rose is the same, a spine/inv lvl 35. 5 Attacks in use and cycling nicely with 1 recharge reduction each, and 1 endurance reduction each. 1 defensive toggle, Unyielding, with 1 end red also and 2 pool powers with 2 end red. Oh wait, I respecced after I5 and had to get rid of Assault and Tactics, so make that 1 end red in 3 toggles, add Temporary Invulnerability and Invincibility to bring my defenses back up. Oh, yeah, ED, I had to remove Provoke and Resurrection in order to take my Energy and Elemntal Defense passives.
My character still runs fairly cold with about 15 total end red, I could get by with less but personally, I can do with a little less firepower not to have to worry about my char running out in all but the longest combats. Of course, with this build I ran cold before I5 also.
My biggest loss with I5 is not the end problem I never had because I used end red and recharge red liberally before ED. My biggest loss is the 4 pool powers I had to drop in order to keep my defenses at roughly where they had been before ED. 30% physical and 15% everything but psionic.
My character has really lost Individuality because my builds were actually close to ED before, as far as slotting is concerned. Now I HAVE to to have 4 fewer pool powers to make my character use the same identical defensive powers as everyone els, instead of settling for less defense and more variety.
Well, auto renew is off. I am just standing around, not even logging on anymore, since my characters are essentially dead now.
Ok. Yseterday I posted my theories about why ED has occured, and moments later the entire thread was deleted.
To recap:
1) to "encourage" teaming. In order to receive what we lost from Enhancements, we should "balance team" and receive
buffs that will counter the loss. I am sure we have all tried this and it hasn't worked.
2) To lengthen the time it takes to reach level fifty and hopefully legnthen the amount of money they make from
longer subscriptions. I find this to be unlikely, )as for me at least) I am going to play a toon regardless of the level.
3) To intentionally piss us, the subscriber base, off completely beyond repair. Although this has been an unintentional side effect, I doubt strongly, this was the intended result.
4) To prevent the Hami-O effect. My problem with that is...
why do the majority have to pay, for the gluttony of the few 45+'s who, due to sheer boredom (due to the lack of anything better to do) did the Hami raids repeatedly, and recived the prize. It's not my fault they were allowed to get multiples, it's the Devs fault for not programming code to prevent this from happening.
5) Now I may be giving the Devs to much credit, but I would like to think this was the prelude to something very cool.
If they were smart, they would have used good story writing
and imagination to institute ED... check this out:
Lord Recluse has hatched a plan, through evil genius, he has created a device that is weakening the powers of Paragon's heroes, and until we (in a game wide event, think Crisis on Infintie Earths type event) banded together to stop it. But like a bull in a china shop, they hit us over the head with it, leaving themselves no other way out. (Sure woulda been cool the other way huh?)
It baffles the mind to think that Statesman and crwe would intentionally sabotage there baby, but for whatever reason they have. I for one have been vocal in my oppistion of ED.
Hell I lost my main, to unplayability due to ED. A 41 level Kat/Invul scrapper, done with, down the tubes...which leads me to my last theory...
5) To create "diversity". Since ED I have done something I would have never done. Created new toons. In an attempt to find an entertaining and playable toon I have been experimenting, the results aren't in yet, as I am having trouble finding the class that can replace the fun I had with Sha' do.
I am trying to switch up my thinking on this and be optimistic,
and in that mind set, I am looking forward to Issue 7, where( Devs are you reading??) I expect to see a slew of cool new changes, New AT's (the avain AT shouldn't be Epic, just give it too us, we have put up with alot, and frankly we desreve it.)
The pistol scrapper we have been asking for since launch, and
the removal of ED. Just to name a few. Then there caould be new Zones, for the Higher ups, and maybe the intorduction of a new NPC SG. Write some good stryline stuff, give us some well thought out Game wide events, stuff so good, we lose sight of ED, and (look out!) enjoy the game. It seems to me you (the DEVS) have paid so much attention, to "balancing the game that they haven't done anything to make the game fun for us. PvE is more important to the gamers than PvP, this isn;t WoW and it never will be. Heck, the PvP system isn't even faction based for the most part, sure we get to do "capture the flag"-esque missions, but all in all, the only way to get PvP is to make a special trip to a special zone. I know it was your intention to give everything we have asked for, and for the effort I am grateful. So much so that I am asking all of us players to stop beating the dead horse that the ED debate has become, and look forward to Issue 7, use the Developers corner to speak or mind on what we want. They know we hate ED. No need to say it anymore. They know we think the reduced debt cap, and endurance costs are crap. So why not speak on stuff they aren't tired of hearing about? New stuff.
Stuff we as loyal subscribers deserve. Who knows maybe they will ACTUALY LISTEN too. Wishful thinkngI know. But it's better than complianing to deaf ears.
the discount amounts to 1-4 points per attack, usually 2 points. so with an attack chain 4 long you can save approximatly 8 endurance.
assume for arguement that chain takes 10 seconds to execute.
8 endurance every 10 seconds is 24 end/ minute or .4 endurance a second which is the same recovery youd get with an additonal 3 slots in stamina.
the endurance that you are no longer recovering you are also no longer using. Also keep in mind rest hasa reduced recharge time so you can use it more often to reduce any additonal down time you might have ( and the nerf to stamina does effect your downtime, but not your combat effectivness )
the devs actually handled stamina and ED pretty well. The real failure they had is all the defensive powers that got this 1/3 enhancment nerf and didn get anything to compensate.
So if you want to complain about enhancement diversification, complain about scrapper/tank defenses becuase they actually got nerfed whereas our endurance did not.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Very well put! Further observation on the Dev's effort to encourage teaming. As I have said in another post, the intention was there buit not well thought through. By teaming, we also shronk what little prestige we already earn. The bigger the team, the lower the prestige. Personally, I hook up with at least 3 or 4 friends a night if not more. Since in CoH my main is a 37, I no longer earn influence with prestige (level 25 cap). Now I have to choose: earn 3 prestige per "arrest" (wich translates to 34 "arrests" for a lamp) or earn influence (which at the current exchange rate of 1 million inf for 2000 prest. isn't worth it).
So ED, are you sure this was Stateman's idea and not Lord Recluse's?
Ok...dead horse beaten...but at a different angle 
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.
Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
ok sorry but this is just a slap in the face to me before l6 i had endurance problems. Now that i6 has hit my toon is useless. i run out of endurance so fast that i eather have to run or die . 13.33% is a start but it is like putting a bandaide on a bullet wound.
lvl 34 bs/inv scrapper
[/ QUOTE ]
they did the discount because they knew that the end hit without 6 slot end whould be huge so was not a gift was a pre-nerf strike to keep people from dying real bad think as end is now if it was 13.33 worse we all would be outside playing hop scotch not a discount i repeat a pre-nerf adjustment!
ill repeat what i said 2 posts ago 13% endurance discount is exactly the amount of endurance you used to recover pre Enhancement Diversification, stop whining and hit rest between battles.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Once again this is a case of the numbers on the spreadsheet not bearing out in actual gameplay.
I won't dispute that you're correct about 13% being the same number. Functionally, however, it is most definitely not the same. I too will repeat something I said before; when you hit the bottom of your endurance bar (and you will), unless a power costs 0 Endurance to use it doesn't matter if that power now costs 13% less to cast than it used to. It doesn't matter if it costs 50% less, or 90% less. All that matters is how fast you can get Endurance back. Functionally, improved Endurance regeneration is always better than improved Endurance usage because it allows you to function longer with higher usage than a simple discount off the top of the power, and to function more effectively and rapidly when you're at the bottom of your bar. Otherwise the loss of those three SOs in Stamina wouldn't be so noticeable. And trust me, it's noticeable.
The "use Rest" doesn't hold water either. Yes, it recharges faster than it used to, but it still doesn't recharge fast enough to be ready between every fight. Not to mention that there are certain classes who are designed to constantly be in action, like, say, Brutes. Even with a full Fury bar, by the time you've Rested it will be gone. "Just use Rest" doesn't work.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
You do not need to be a mathematician to play the game. I don't worry about any of it. I just play. I mean, seriously, if nothing was ever announced about ED, some players wouldn't even notice. No one said you had to figure it all up to play. This information is provided for those who DO figure it all up to try to optimize their character build. If you're only coming on to play, then there is no "building" involved, except for concept (i.e. costume, bio, power selection). If that's the case, then there's no problem.
As for the rest of your post, it's rather off-topic and should probably be addressed elsewhere.