[ QUOTE ]
With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.
Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
The decreased endurance costs is only useful for people who took the fitness pool and six slotted stamina... but just so you know you are not treating these issues in the proper manner. Yet again, as was the case in I5 you are treating everyone like they are equals in the game instead of adjusting Power A for less damage, or Power B for slower recharge. But instead youre treating my controller, defender, blaster, and tanker like they are the same and need the same things to fight and be useful members of a team. What now for my healer with six slotted recharge on resurrection, the hero is already dead what does it matter if I resurrect him now or a minute from now? All it is is having to wait one more minute.
One thing that Enhancement diversification shouldnt have touched, move powers.... If I want to six slot super jump so I can jump really fast and really far, what is wrong with that? It's not allowing me to solo an AV or even a boss, super jump just makes traveling less tedious. And ok the discount in endurance corrects for stamina, but how about health? And what is this going to do to regen scrappers?? My regen scrapper has fast healing and recovery, but now both of those are going to become seemingly useless.
1) When there is a problem with one sect of one Archtype being to powerful, fix them, don't nerf EVERYONE
2) If one specific power is too powerful, FIX THAT, don't nerf EVERYONE
3) If something recharges too fast, increase its recharge time, not EVERYONES
Do you understand the point I am trying to make? Just because one type of tanker is more powerful than the other kinds doesnt mean you should nerf them all.
I understand you don't do this without reason. I get that there are certain people who aren't happy until they are level fifty and can solo every Arch villain you guys make, but ya know what, I don't care because they are a small percentage of the people that play this game. Let them get to fifty, with their perfect build, and then let them get their Peacebringer and Warshade to fifty, and then let them sit in Atlas while n00bs run around begging for influence from everyone over level twenty they see. What does it matter if they beat the game? Then they have nowhere to go but retirement under the Atlas statue, and someday I'd like to be able to at least see what a Peacebringer power set looks like, and I'd like to be able to play a Warshade.
I also agree with what other people have stated, there are certain things that I absolutely have to have in my character build otherwise very little can be accomplished. Id really enjoy having my healer with teleportation, leadership, stealth and flight for example, but I cant do that. I am forced into taking the fitness pool because otherwise I wont be able to counteract the effects of endurance costs and still heal efficiently, but I cant sacrifice the flight pool because for some reason a power that doesnt fight, and simply moves me from place to place has an outrageous endurance cost, or due to issue with lag, I would fall from the sky without hover while teleporting. Now hasten is beginning to become a requirement also because of double recharge times, and enhancement diversifying, so theres another power pool I have to take. All the choices there are in the power pools, yet we are so limited.
Many powers it makes no sense to slot anything other than one thing in it, because as others have said, certain enhancements make no noticeable difference in the powers. Its unnerving to be forced into using different enhancements when some of them make no sense, or make no difference.
After further testing, I believe this End Discount is a nice initial gesture. ..But not enough.
I would really like the Devs to consider boosting the bases on all secondary-effects as well to make those effects more than just the Fluff they are right now. If a power has no secondary effect(s), then boost it's primary back up or have Geko & Manticore think up a secondary effect for it. The double-whammy from Issue5 combined with ED is really cutting into our Fun, and making many everyday encounters unthinkable, or just plain tedious.
[ QUOTE ]
With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.
Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh huh. I feel like you've started a forest fire and have handed me a squirt gun with which to fight it.
You know what percentages I'm interested in at the moment? I want to know the percentage of your customers that actually want this change to their game. That's right - THEIR GAME, MY GAME. You sell it to us. You should listen to us. You should reason with us.
There are currently over 500 pages of responces to the initial thread about ED; have you bothered reading any of them? If you have, why not answer them? What of the countless IMs begging for reason? Why not give a straight, no BS answer as to why you're doing this to your loyal customer base?
I haven't said it plainly before, so I'll just be plain now to be sure that you don't miss it:
I'm mad as hell about this. None of you devs seem to care about what WE want. Well guess what? I no longer care about what you want; I no longer care about giving you money. I haven't cancelled yet, but if ED goes live I shall. At this point, I'd do it purely for spite.
Here's an interesting thought: What if the tables were reversed? What if the consensus of players decided that you make too much money and decided to arbitrariily cut the subscription cost by, say, 13%? I'd call it Financial Diversification (or maybe just F'D) - encouraging more creative living between paychecks. Oh, you'd cry. You'd scream. Oh wait! Before you cry, "Doooom! Dooooom!" know that your life will actually be more enjoyable. After all, everyone knows that your capacity for enjoyment increases when you're more in want.
(These boards are not a Community; they are the medium by which the Few mandate to the Many. The Few would have us believe that we function with them as a healthy collective - such as all dictators do.)
He is Jack Emmert. When he wanted to be a positive part of our game we could call him Statesman. Doesn't deserve the game now, he is no longer a friend to Paragon City's heroes. He's like the psychic clockwork king - alone in a universe inhabitated only with automatons that can't disagree with him. (Circa 2005 - from the ED thread - original poster unknown)
Fire,
Why should anything be nerfed to begin with? So what if someone knows how to slot their powers in order to solo an AV? More power to them. Who does it hurt? There's someone sitting at their keyboard with a smile on their face because they're doing something truly super. Who cares if someone can make it to 50 in a couple weeks, and starts over with a new character to do the same thing all over again? If it keeps them happy, why mess with it? They still pay every three months.
I digress... Nerfing, on any scale, is a problem, and not a solution. Nerfing is merely stripping function from a functional thing - it's the opposite of Development. (Developers, take note here.)
He is Jack Emmert. When he wanted to be a positive part of our game we could call him Statesman. Doesn't deserve the game now, he is no longer a friend to Paragon City's heroes. He's like the psychic clockwork king - alone in a universe inhabitated only with automatons that can't disagree with him. (Circa 2005 - from the ED thread - original poster unknown)
Alright, I haven't posted in a while but here it goes.
I've been on the test server trying out my diversified AR/ICE blaster. A less than common set, but oh well.
Anyways, my points are as follows(opinions only based on testing one AT):
1. Boosting attack rate, lower end cost, increase range, or lower interrupt time is actually kinda cool and gives my toon a different feel. It takes more thought to slot powers now and maybe even make a common power act differently than other toon's do.
2. The endurance reduction only compensates people if they still take stamina. Basically you have to take stamina anyway in order to stack it with the lower base cost, just to approximate the previous end efficiency.
3. I think these changes are being implemented to keep people from herding dozens of baddies at once and to keep people from soloing AV's and +5 enemies. I believe that it was never the dev's intent for individuals to be able to do those kinds of things and that these nerfs are designed to establish their original vision.
On that note, I don't think its really a bad thing. The only real difference is that we will all get the same challenge from a +2 that we used to get from a +5. I know that cuts into some people's idea of "superhero" but its all just relative. Lowering the debt cap, lowering debt in missions appears to be an attempt to offset the fact that we wont be able to handle and earn xp from as many superhigh level enemies. I personaly don't care if a +2 gives some of my AT's trouble now. I just don't want any one of my AT's to be completely underpowered compared to another. And offhand I'd say that my weakest character has been little affected. He still can't take on the +5's and he still does about as well against the +1 and +2's that he used to handle.
Alright, I might be asking to get flamed, but I am all in favor of making all AT's as even as possible. If a small few rule all and are wayyyy better than others, it just means that those of use not as pumped up can't even team with them. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine. Despite that though, I also understand that with the coming of COV its important for there to be a balance.
The end reduction is welcome, because they could have given us nothing in return. Does it compensate for all we've lost... The answer is a definite NO! But that's exactly the point. They don't want us to be able to be as powerful. At least not some of us. So I think its pointless to complain about this bone they're throwing us not giving us back as much as we've lost. Its obviously not the point.
[ QUOTE ]
Fire,
Why should anything be nerfed to begin with? So what if someone knows how to slot their powers in order to solo an AV? More power to them. Who does it hurt? There's someone sitting at their keyboard with a smile on their face because they're doing something truly super. Who cares if someone can make it to 50 in a couple weeks, and starts over with a new character to do the same thing all over again? If it keeps them happy, why mess with it? They still pay every three months.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you had taken the time to actually read what I had said, I simply gave that as the most likely reason for these nerfs, and also we basically said exactly the same thing, which gives me hope because I'm not the only one who doesn't care if certain players can make uberHeroes. I also said that frankly I don't give a damn if someone can solo every arch villain in the game at the same time, it's nothing to do with me, and I CAN'T do that, so making me less powerful just takes away from my gaming experience, don't misconstrue what I said as having anything to do with ED being a good thing. I disagree with this completly. If I can afford SO's and my character build allows me to six slot a power and put in six damage SO's MORE POWER TO ME, I EARNED IT BY LEVELING AND SAVING MY INFLUENCE!! And that's how it should be.
[ QUOTE ]
3. I think these changes are being implemented to keep people from herding dozens of baddies at once and to keep people from soloing AV's and +5 enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't do that with any of my toons, and I know plenty of people who can't do that with theirs, so my point is, why are we getting nerfed too?
What is this talk of solo'ing AV's? I did the babbage TF with a friend, pre-I5. The rest of the team dropped, but for 2 days my Tank buddy and I ran the rest of the missions.
I was playing a Dark/Rad defender, he was FF tank.
We could NOT take down the AV. Period. No way we could do enough damage.
So where is the poppy [censored] about solo'in AV's and +5 NME's?
I've never been able to hit ANYTHING above 3 levels??
And if you mean SOLO when your level 50, well?? You SHOULD be able to solo an AV at level 50...
No - these nerfs are for PVP with COV. Period. End of stupid story, and more likely than not, a few more accounts.
[ QUOTE ]
What is this talk of solo'ing AV's?
No - these nerfs are for PVP with COV. Period. End of stupid story, and more likely than not, a few more accounts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because you can't do it doesn't make it impossible. I know people who aren't level fifty that can take on AVs all by themselves. Don't tell me it's impossible because you are incapable. That in fact enforces my point. That we don't deserve these nerfs because point blank not everyone is strong and overpowered.
my dark dark scrapper is crying in the corner
[ QUOTE ]
With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.
Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a question for those of you familiar with crunching the numbers on enhancements...
If the base endurance of every power has been reduced by 13.33%, doesn't this mean that any endurance reduction enhancement is also reduced in effectiveness by 13.33% since they modify the base value?
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
If the base endurance of every power has been reduced by 13.33%, doesn't this mean that any endurance reduction enhancement is also reduced in effectiveness by 13.33% since they modify the base value?
---
No. The Enh go by percentage, so the effectiveness stays the same.
For example:
Power A costs 13 End.
The Enh reduces this by 20% so now the cost is 10.4
Now with the discount:
Power A costs only 10 End.
The Enh still reduces by 20% so now the cost is 8
If you look at the absolute numbers, yes the reduction dropped from 2.6 to 2 points but if the enh would still reduce the full 2.6 points then this specific enh would actually suddenly be worth more (26% instead of 20%) while others stayed the same (like dmg or acc)
The numbers I used don't reflect actual values in the game. Just for demonstration purposes
i would like to point something out and ask a question or 2.
i made a build for my lvl 50 warshade and it included 6 slotted ++ stamina. with ALL endurance inspirations, i used up every single one of them in PvP and was still in need 5 minutes into the 10 minute fight with no way out...
I said something about it in broadcast today and and someone said that an endcost enhancement is almost like Conserve Energy for that power! i'll try it out.
and secondly, currently, i'd have JUST enough endurance to kill my opponent then rest, with LOTS of inspirations to spare. with this current build (a very superb one i might add), i bring only Blue inspirations. i don't want to go to a battle like that! thats exactly like running in the olympics after doing speed.... in some cases or another. is ED causeing EVERYONE to feel such side effect with their builds or is it because i still need editing. i'm just curious as to how others could respond to this. Perhaps we need More of an endurance cost reduction on powers?
[ QUOTE ]
my dark dark scrapper is crying in the corner
[/ QUOTE ]
So is mine... 
The more things change the more they stay the same.
My point wasn't that we all deserved to get nerfed, my point was that (and I'm only talking from one experience) that maybe the nerf to the weaker characters isn't as bad as we may think. If all you can hit is a +2 pre diversification, then maybe your effectiveness wont change. I'm only saying that it may only be those few characters with +5 capabilities that are going to feel the sting.
All I know is that the endurance reduction doesn't make up for things, but that I'm still in favor of anything that makes things a bit more balanced. Some toons will always be better, or easier to play, but nothing should be able to herd 40 +5's and then walk away for a bio break for 5 minutes without fear of dying. I've seen it done a LOT and it just didn't seem right.
(Just because you can't do it doesn't make it impossible. I know people who aren't level fifty that can take on AVs all by themselves. Don't tell me it's impossible because you are incapable. )
Er.. ok.. I didn't.
Just because I didn't say it, doesn't mean I did.
I didn't say it "couldn't" be done. It is however, somewhat rare, IMHO.
If it isn't, then I'd like to know what kind of toon can accomplish this feat - what lvl, what lvl of AV they are fighting...etc..etc.
Case in point - I was with a group of 6 last night - fighting Nosfaratu - after bulldozing through the entire mission we get to the AV and start the fight.
25 minutes later - we are forced to recruit 2 more members to the party.
20 minutes after THAT - we finally bring him down with our party of 8!!
3 Controllers with pets, 2 defs, 1 Tank, 1 blast and a PB - and a 45 minute battle.
It was insane.
So? Your telling me 'someone' can solo that????
Please explain - because if THAT battle is any indication - I don't believe you. I'm not saying it's impossible because I've 'read' of it happening..... PRE i5.
I just don't see it happening now. For sure. But hey?? Correct me if I'm wrong!?! What is the magical build and match-up criteria???
Breif hijack, but Nos is actually easier with fewer members. His biggest ick is his Life Drain, and that is more significant the more people who are around him.
We tried to fight him with a DM/SR Scrapper, an Ill/Emp Controller, a MA/DA Scrapper, a Rad/Rad Defender and an NRG/NRG Blaster, and we go *owned*. Twice. We abandoned the mission. Then later just the DM/SR Scrapper and the Ill/Emp Controller tried it again, and the controller didn't use any of her pets, just used holds/buffs/debuffs/heals, and we smacked him down.
Like I said, hijack. I've seen few cases of soloable AVs, but Nos isn't a good example. I would find it as easy to believe that a /SR Scrapper or /Ice Tank could solo him than that a large group succeeded.
even with the break my bs/inv scrapper will be worthless. He uses way to much endurace.
KK love the 13% end redux but my endurance is going down faster now, on a greater note so is my health.
Invul/Axe, i am so sorry to say that one of the posts i read earlier is completely right, i play the game to earn my powers and my abilites, i like not using much end, tanking lots of mobs and knowing when to stop attacking cause all my toggles will drop, i love people knowing im going to take a big#$% whoopin for em while they beat on crap....
I did NOT like training enhancements back at low levels where i had no defense whatsoever, i kept playing because i knew eventually i would have the defense to make me a valuable team member, i knew that i could get stamina and 6 slot it, i knew i could 6 slot my defense powers eventually and have high defenses, i knew i would enjoy people relying on me.
It is a serious task to get from 1-50 and i really enjoyed it on my tanker, i knew i was earning everything i got for my time and dedication. At 6 i could take hasten, work on slotting that a while, get a travel power, then stamina rolls around and i work on that, invincibility rolls around, work on that, gaining every inch of my great defense every level.
Now i swear i feel like im back at level 6 BUT WAIT i have a travel power... WITH A 13.33% end redux on ALL my powers.... hmm lets see... 6 Wetware polymers at 33.3% end rec, thats what 199.8%(?) now im reduced to 103.2%(?) that is probrably not accurate considering i dont know the caps and outside info, course im still 6 slotted at 113% recovery... thats a near 90% cut, but 13% gunna make up for it... furthermore... Wetware Adrenal Booster 33.3% for my conserve power i worked my #$% off for for 41 levels... that is the same reduced to 113% still six slotted... also 90% recharge cut... so thats another 10 minutes waiting in between groups waiting for a power to charge... overall id say i lose at LEAST 200% endurance in some way form or fashion.
Now for the really fun part... MY UBBER INVULNERABLE DEFENSES... ok lets see... my Portacio Subdermal Plating for defense resistances... 20%, six slotted 120% effectiveness... now reduced to 66.8% efffectiveness... thats double damage... on not one, no not one, but all damage... oh and lets not forget the unyielding stance downgrades here, now i lose half my resistances to toggle drops, so now i am JUST as effective as i was at level 16, i just have more powers to drop endurance with, and with that mass end usage on axe, oh yea, im a 5 second tank unless i can use conserve right in the begining, then im a whole 1 minute man.
I was skeptical about this at first but still i wanted to see if it was as bad as i had been thinking it would be... i am completely gimped against even cons now... kk let me go test this to make sure, numbers are one thing, playing it is another...
Ok, 6 minions mostly energy and smashing damage... end drops lot quicker, hasten takes 30-40 seconds between uses not sure exactly, conserve... takes a while between uses... i missed OVER 1/2 my swings... odd considering i have invincibility on...
I only have one real question, what in the hell is ED supposed to balance, pvp? i really dont give a #$%^ bout pvp, the only real difference in me playing this game is i miss more, i do a LOT less damage considering AoEs and recharge times, endurance cost for my axe powers, but thats not that bad, the thing that really bugs me is that i cant go on non stop, i cant take insane amounts of damage like i intended to play my charecter, if i did 50pts of damage in every attack i had and still had my hasten+conserve, i wouldnt care, i could keep going and going and going and not have to stop, i worked hard to get my end and defense the way it was, i spent a lot of time on my toon, i just fail to see the point in ED as a benefit...
I might not be right in a lot of this, im no mathmatician nor do i claim that i am right, i can still play my charecter, but i have way bigger hoops to jump through than i did at level 25 on this charecter. I just dont think its right that we got hit this hard and we only got a stale cookie to make up for it as someone else mentioned. I am very upset that i lost what i greatly enjoyed... i was only fit for certain mob types, i couldnt do much of anything against a lot of mobs, now i dont have the options to be weak or powerful, i have mediocre or dead.
Just my 2 inf for a querp on AVs..me and my duo'n partner have taken on every AV in CoH (all done on Invince) just the 2 of us without much of a problem. Granted, my Ill/rad, her Invuln/SS pre I5, my Ill/emp, her Ill/rad post I5. Can this be done to any AV solo'd in I5 or now on Invince? I don't believe it. I've called out people that claimed this achievement and they were massacred/couldn't do it...I do want to test ourselves without respec'n just to see how we do but I think we will be hard pressed.
Do I think the ability to defeat any AV with just 2 people on Invince setting requires us to be nerfed and am I bragging? Hell no! It was a challenge and alot of fun but now those powers have been rob'd!
The endurance reduction may help but only slightly and this just isn't enough for Heroes. CoV was created with ED in mind, CoH as we all know was not...
"..why o' why didn't I take the BLUE pill?"
The best way to figure this is by times launched, rather than end cost.
With 100 total end - and not taking end recovery into consideration - a power which uses 13 end per launch can be launched a little over 7.69 times. With a 20% end red enhancement, it can be launched approximately 9.61 times.
With the discount, the power now uses 10 end per launch and can be launched 10 times. With a 20% end red enhancement, it can be launched 12.5 times.
So, in that case, the end discount actually makes your end reduction enhancements 130% more effective.
Been on more than a year with different accounts.
I used to play this game to have fun...repeat, USED... I didnt know I had to be a mathematician to play..repeat..PLAY..a game.
13.33% reduction , 20% increase , 19.66%..WHAT?!?...
100% BULL.
I have to think enough at work, this was supposed to be a "getaway" from reality. Game used to be fun, now I need my calculator to develop a character. What am I supposed to diversify exactly with powers that require only one enh.? hmmmm, I know, I know, I'll diversify the games I play.
Oh, yeah, not to mention, that now I can't even log in to play at all due to down servers and Bandwidth problems. 1.6 G download on dial up is ridiculous, 100+ hours, and I was given a fraction of that prior to the release. So I find myself waiting 100+ hours b4 I can play, yeah right, see ya, used to be fun..repeat USED. Yes dial-up, High speed is not available EVERYWHERE.
Oh, and one more thing, I forget, and apparently devs do too, that I pay.. repeat PAY... for this. Paying for something I can't even play now. That just doesn't make sense. I wasn't getting COV anyway, why do I have to be affected.
I didn't know there was a problem to start with.
I will wait 100+ hours download so I can finish one character. I was 3/4 bar from 50 b4 I6 was released, WONDERFUL, only 100+ hours b4 I get a 50 toon that I wont be able to play..AWESOME!!
Consider me CANCELLED.....oh do I get a refund on the 100+ hours that I pay for and can't play?????!!!!!!!
Man, no sarcasm here, I actually feel sorry for dial-up users. It is true, high-speed isn't available everywhere
Wow, Benefits? You were at no time able to convince me this issue 6 was any "update" more than a disguised global nerf. I feel long time players have been lied to once more after the promise made about no more powers cuts after I5.
I would rather say thank you for new maps and events; but me being a PvE player with a full account of useless lvl 50s, lvl 36s, 33s, ...and so on ..... even with respec.... . I just cant have fun playing my mains that took over 1200 hours to get to their SUPERHEROES status. Now they feel weak, i have to stare at screen doing nothing but waitin for attacks to reappear, I can take very little at a time and takes all I have to defeat 1 boss in missions.
For all the new players: no problem! Hurray!!! New Stuff ! lower debt cap! ______BULLCRAP! ppl happy from badges when u loggin: _______Bullcrap!
- U were never supposed to hit debt cap before I6 except if u were a real bad player or wanted it 
-They give some stuff to distract you from what they really did
- for southpark fans: -Chewbacka defence!!!!!!!!!!
You happy newbies to CoH : Wait 3 more Issues till all your favorite toon are reduces to nothing, you will stop babbling about "so called new cool stuff" and will see the real effects of the patches READ, READ , READ !!!!!!!! DAMNIT!
And to all my fellow Supers that were on since it started: PLEASE HELP ME TRYING TO GET OUR TOONS BACK!!! We have to mobilize and send our opinions...Strike!!!! After all didnt we pay them to produce that????
NC excuse my attitude but i cant stay silent....
Protector Server , Supergroup: Tactical Invader Forces
- Panzer VI : lvl50 Fire/fire tank, R.I.P. since I5
-Minitrixx : lvl 50 Fire/empath troller, R.I.P. since I5
-Ex-Calibur : lvl32 broad/regen; R.I.P. Issue 6
-Son Of Chaos : lvl33 gravity/storm troller died issue 5
............and many more.....
Having played with this buff...
AND Enhancement Disversification
It is not nearly enough to make up for the dimished effect of stamina.
And NO WAY it is an acceptable trade for ED.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU